- Time of past OR future Camino
- June 2023
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The Compostela document is in Latin, and uses the Latin equivalent of your first name.Uh,,, Your name is your name as given.
Why would someone try to "translate" your name?
My name is Robert, not Roberto or any other version.
Vidonem is indeed the subject of the verb; but the verb visitasse is an infinitive because it's indirect discourse — and subjects of infinitives are in the accusative.<Name> hoc sacratissimum Templum pietatis causa devote visitasse.
Those working in the pilgrim office try their best to translate your given name into Latin, and if they can not, I think they do the best they can and probably adlib a littleThe Compostela document is in Latin, and uses the Latin equivalent of your first name.
The compostela will use the Latin equivalent of your forename and surname. In your case, probably Robertus rather than Roberto. I don't see it as any different to the many equivalents to James. I suspect we have no problem understanding the Jacob, Iago, etc are all equivalents.Uh,,, Your name is your name as given.
Why would someone try to "translate" your name?
My name is Robert, not Roberto or any other version.
Just for info, your given name in Latinised form is Robertus and it would appear as Robertum on your Compostela. Numerous peregrin@s are thrilled with this, others not so much. Buen Camino!Uh,,, Your name is your name as given.
Why would someone try to "translate" your name?
My name is Robert, not Roberto or any other version.
You’re correct Ialaone - the Compostela gives the person’s name in Latin and the whole document is in Latin as it was the language of the church all those centuries back. I’ve just finished two weeks volunteering at the Pilgrim Office and was told that the current compostela has been in use since the 16th century. I was also told earlier versions go back to around 1,000 years ago.It's interesting that the Compostela and Distance Certificate seem to use different naming procedures. As defaults anyway - at least that was my husband's experience last year. The Compostela gives a Latin name, while the Distance Certificate gives your name as it appears in your own language. I am guessing that is because the Compostela is in Latin and the Distance Certificate is in Spanish...?
Depends what you mean by "the current compostela". The first two I received had no mention of a minimum distance on them. And I doubt the 16th century ones mentioned travel by bike!I’ve just finished two weeks volunteering at the Pilgrim Office and was told that the current compostela has been in use since the 16th century.
If you have a Compostela issued in the last few years then the minimum distances and bicycles are mentioned after the name of the recipient.Hi @Bradypus - I don’t think the current compostela has a minimum distance mentioned on it but I stand corrected.
Direct Object actually, hence the Accusative.Vidonem is indeed the subject of the verb
It's a form of Accusative Absolute, albeit that it is technically in this precise usage in Subjunctive Mood. (The Latin Infinitive forms and their uses are quite complex.)but the verb visitasse is an infinitive because it's indirect discourse
Oh yes. Birota - literally a two-wheeler. How could one ever forget this Latin word after having seen it on a Compostela.If you have a Compostela issued in the last few years then the minimum distances and bicycles are mentioned after the name of the recipient.
Not if it's specifically "Bob" on his birth certificate and passport and credencial.Just for info, your given name in Latinised form is Robertus and it would appear as Robertum on your Compostela. Numerous peregrin@s are thrilled with this, others not so much. As far as I understand it, you can ask that your actual proper name is shown on your Compostela. Buen Camino!
Thank you Jenny for this interesting insight! I kinda like having the Latin version of my name on the Compostela - even though it bears no resemblance to my name in English. Just another part of the richness of the Camino.I’ve just finished two weeks volunteering at the Pilgrim Office and was told that the current compostela has been in use since the 16th century. I was also told earlier versions go back to around 1,000 years ago.
The Pilgrim Office’s computer system has the Latin translation for thousands and thousands of names. Some names just don’t translate and I found that some names which should have translated didn’t, so in that case I went back, looked up the Latin names, typed those in and reissued the compostela.
Donna is invariable in Latin, counterintuitive as that might seem. As is Rode I'm afraid.When I got my Compostela, it was just my name. No translation at all. I was actually a bit disappointed. It seemed doable (Donna Rode). Maybe I just got someone who didn't feel like trying to do it?
Should be Matthæum, but those variants are not incorrect.My son's given name is Matthew. One of his Compostelas says Mattaeum; the other one says Matthaeum.
That is very bad method, and it's terrible pseudo-Latin from the part of that source.Wikipedia's Latinisation of names lists four methods of Latinisation:
- transforming the name into Latin sounds (e.g. Geber for Jabir), or
- adding Latinate suffixes to the end of a name (e.g. Meibomius for Meibom), or
- translating a name with a specific meaning into Latin (e.g. Venator for Italian Cacciatore; both mean 'hunter'), or
- choosing a new name based on some attribute of the person (e.g. Daniel Santbech became Noviomagus, possibly from the Latin name for the town of Nijmegen).
Fun one.Let us wait till one of the children of Elon Musk walk a Camino and want to receive their Compostela!
When you obtain a Compostela, staff translate your given name to Latin, if an equivalent is available. Thus, Robert or Bob will always come out as Robertum, or whatever it is in Latin. The "um" suffix is for men. An "am" suffix is for women - e,g, Robertam.Uh,,, Your name is your name as given.
Why would someone try to "translate" your name?
My name is Robert, not Roberto or any other version.
choosing a new name based on some attribute of the person (e.g. Daniel Santbech became Noviomagus, possibly from the Latin name for the town of Nijmegen
Hello Everyone: Thanks so much for sharing, I greatly appreciate all of your responses. I’m certainly quite happy with the Latin translation of my given "Guy" as "Vidonem" but was merely curious as to the process involved since my basic background research did not come up with anything concrete. The folks at the pilgrims’ office no doubt do their very best to accurately translate our names and I am proudly wearing the moniker "Vidonem" as a pilgrim who humbly completed the CF. And now I guess there is a further complication for the hospitaliera in Belorado who thought I was kidding when I mentioned to her my name was Guy leading her to believe it was colloquial Spanish for “Chico”Hello all: I’m hoping there may be a few Latin etymology enthusiasts in our forum who may be able to share their thoughts. Any idea as to the meaning of "Vidonem"? I recently completed the CF and obtained my Compostela. My first name is “Guy” and the name translated as “Vidonem” on the parchment. I’m wondering if this is a literal translation or symbolic. I can’t imagine my first name has any Latin origins. Maybe it’s Latin for "Chico”? Ha! Any thoughts as to the meaning?
LOL.the hospitaliera in Belorado who thought I was kidding when I mentioned to her my name was Guy leading her to believe it was colloquial Spanish for “Chico”.
LOL.
As so often, a question can lead into surprising alleys. You probably know not only about Guy and Guido/Wido/Vido but also about guys and Guy Fawkes. I don’t know how well-known Guy Fawkes is in the USA, in England literally every kid knows his name. A short fun article in the Washington Post about the origin of the word “guy” starts with the following words and then continues to explain how the meaning of the word guy changed throughout the past 400 years:
Little-known fact — well, it’s probably a fact: “Guy” meaning “fellow” (these days, sometimes even including gals), stems from Guy Fawkes, of English Gunpowder Plot (on Nov. 5, 1605) fame: […]
What I didn’t know is that Guy Fawkes travelled to the continent to fight in the Eighty Years War for Catholic Spain against the new Dutch Republic where he apparently fought as a career soldier in the Netherlands and in France. He later also travelled to Spain and was known as Guido Fawkes. Sadly, you don’t have to go far in any direction in Europe’s history to encounter war … hopefully, hopefully a story of the past and the Camino de Santiago is meant to be a symbol for a peaceful future.
I am familiar with Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot but was not aware of his involvement in Spain. Very interesting !LOL.
As so often, a question can lead into surprising alleys. You probably know not only about Guy and Guido/Wido/Vido but also about guys and Guy Fawkes. I don’t know how well-known Guy Fawkes is in the USA, in England literally every kid knows his name. A short fun article in the Washington Post about the origin of the word “guy” starts with the following words and then continues to explain how the meaning of the word guy changed throughout the past 400 years:
Little-known fact — well, it’s probably a fact: “Guy” meaning “fellow” (these days, sometimes even including gals), stems from Guy Fawkes, of English Gunpowder Plot (on Nov. 5, 1605) fame: […]
What I didn’t know is that Guy Fawkes travelled to the continent to fight in the Eighty Years War for Catholic Spain against the new Dutch Republic where he apparently fought as a career soldier in the Netherlands and in France. He later also travelled to Spain and was known as Guido Fawkes. Sadly, you don’t have to go far in any direction in Europe’s history to encounter war … hopefully, hopefully a story of the past and the Camino de Santiago is meant to be a symbol for a peaceful future.
Understood. I shall henceforth proudly wear the moniker Vido! My legal first name is Joseph and most likely it would not have been a problem. My two brothers’ first names are also Joseph and so I often use my second name. Blame it in the small town catholic priest who filled in the baptismal and birth certificatesJGJ wrote: I am proudly wearing the moniker "Vidonem"
No, Guy, you should be proudly wearing the moniker Vido (nominative case, or subject), whereas Vidonem in in the accusative case, or object. Would one of your other initials, J, have been less of a problem?
Brilliant! This made my day.This discussion reminds me of
Hooray !!Understood. I shall henceforth proudly wear the moniker Vido!
Ouch !! Another small can of worms !!My legal first name is Joseph and most likely it would not have been a problem.
Not so fast, @Wendy Werneth.Of course, doing so still doesn't make it a Latin name,
Fascinating, thanks for digging that up, @Kathar1na ! The Welsh connection fits too. Cool to know where it came from.Not so fast, @Wendy Werneth.
I am merely commenting on whether Guendolina is a Latinised given name that can be found in Roman Catholic parish registers or in other documents written in Latin. And the answer is yes. It did not take me long to find such an example online - and remember, not all parish registers have been digitised and are made available online, there are many more that have been transcribed and where the given latinised forms have been collected in databases in printed form in books.
The entry can be found in the register of the Roman Catholic Church of St Dubritius in Treforest in Wales. The introduction says: "practice in ecclesiastical registers at that time was to write the Latin forms of the names". Hence Henricus, Richardus, Josephus, Joannes and Georgius in the list of baptismal names of parishioners who in real life, and in their passports if they had one, were called Henry, Richard, Joseph, John and George. And there is a Guendelina Anna listed who was most likely a Gwendolyn Anne in real life. Note that the surnames are not Latinised, a practice that is also honoured in the Compostela.
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PS: I know that it says Guendelina in the register while your Compostela says Guendolina. I'm confident that I could find a Guendolina in some parish register or other if I searched long enough. My point is this: For all I know the staff and the volunteers of the Pilgrim Office in Compostela are not Latinising names - they use databases of established and known Latinised names.
Strictly speaking, as @JGJ has already mentioned, his given name Guy has no Latin roots. Guy is apparently either derived or related to Guido and both appear to be derived from the Old High German name Wido which then has some older Germanic roots and meaning. No Latin involved.
Latin Vido came onto the scene (most likely at least) sometime in the Middle Ages or later when it was fashionable to latinise European names, both given names and surnames. I was surprised to read that numerous Roman Catholic parish registers of birth, baptism, marriage and death were still written in ecclesiastical / church / neo / modern Latin until late in the 19th century where the parishers' real-life given names were latinised. There are books with lists of columns and columns of real-life name and Latinised name for those who are interested in deciphering such parish records.
Wikipedia's Latinisation of names lists four methods of Latinisation:
My guess is that in Guy's case it was the first method: Guy/Guido/Wido and Vido are homonyms, i.e. the words sound and look alike.
- transforming the name into Latin sounds (e.g. Geber for Jabir), or
- adding Latinate suffixes to the end of a name (e.g. Meibomius for Meibom), or
- translating a name with a specific meaning into Latin (e.g. Venator for Italian Cacciatore; both mean 'hunter'), or
- choosing a new name based on some attribute of the person (e.g. Daniel Santbech became Noviomagus, possibly from the Latin name for the town of Nijmegen).
Needless to say, the actual Latin name is Vido and not Vidonem, just like say the actual Latinised name of Martin is Martinus and not Martinum or for Mary it is Maria and not Mariam. Vidonem and Martinum and Mariam are merely grammatical forms in Latin that have no equivalent in English. These forms are on the Compostella because of the sentence that precedes them and the grammar rules of the Latin language that require these endings.
I didn't find the name in a parish register but in a museum: a pecten guendolinae, or Gwendolin's scallop, named by the collector after his daughter Gwendolin in 1888. Lives in the Indian Ocean near South Africa, Mozambique, Mauritius, Madagascar. Wouldn't it be tempting to travel there and collect one for your next Camino?I could find a Guendolina in some parish register or other if I searched long enough
Oh yes, that is very tempting!!I didn't find the name in a parish register but in a museum: a pecten guendolinae, or Gwendolin's scallop, named by the collector after his daughter Gwendolin in 1888. Lives in the Indian Ocean near South Africa, Mozambique, Mauritius, Madagascar. Wouldn't it be tempting to travel there and collect one for your next Camino?
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G’Day my friend. I have just scanned my two compostela’s and neither mentioned a distance walked or cycled. Just my lovely name is beautiful Latin. See you at Syd-Pilgrims in September. CheersHi @Bradypus - I don’t think the current compostela has a minimum distance mentioned on it but I stand corrected. The person’s name and the date the compostela was issued were the only variables. Love the mention re the bicigrinos! Very clever!
Cheers -
Jenny
The proper Latin should be Gwendoloena as used by Geoffrey of Monmouth in the 12th Century, including because he was a Welshman writing in Latin, and it is a Welsh name ; W is extremely rare in Latin, but not non-existent, and it persists in non-Latin proper nouns having Latin forms, including in Classical Latin BTW.As of this year I have received compostelas with four different variants of my name. Usually it's the untranslated "Wendy", or "Vondam" or "Vandam". This year, though, I got something new: "Guendolinam"!
I always thought the name "Wendy" was invented by the author of Peter Pan in the early 20th century, which would obviously mean it wouldn't have a Latin equivalent.
I just did a bit of Googling, though, and it turns out it did have very limited use prior to Peter Pan as the familiar form of the Welsh name Gwendolyn. So if you take "Gwendolyn", substitute the "w" and "y" with letters that existed in the old Latin alphabet and put it in the accusative case, I guess you get "Guendolinam"!
Of course, doing so still doesn't make it a Latin name, but I'm happy to have a fun name on my compostela nonetheless.
How exactly did they want to render it ?I already had a discussion with the pilgrim office staff about my name, which is originally Latin, but they “overlatinized” it. I have studied Latin for many years so we ended up in an arcane discussion. In the end they agreed to leave my name as is, Beatriz.
You mean that there are inaccuracies in the film? I am appalled....Just noticed the Latin of the Compostelas in The Way is wrong.
Also love how in several shots they're moving eastwards ...You mean that there are inaccuracies in the film? I am appalled....
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