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It is similar in Toronto, where there are laws about public drinking. They are just now beginning, as a pilot, to allow some drinking in some specific public parks (with large signs in the parks indicating permission).Yes me too! It’s not always obvious. For example there are many places in Australia you cannot drink alcohol… parks, some beaches, which I was quite unaware of and very different to most places in Europe, where it’s considered to be fairly normal.
As a Brit I was very surprised at how tightly controlled alcohol sales were in Australia. I wanted to buy a bottle of whisky on my birthday while in the Northern Territory. Before I could even get inside the bottle shop I had to explain to a police officer (who carried an automatic rifle!) what I wanted to buy and where I intended to be when I drank it. And once in the shop my passport details were checked on a computer database before I was allowed to buy the whisky. Can't see that going down well in Spain or Scotland!For example there are many places in Australia you cannot drink alcohol…
Yes it absolutely incredible! I have never been refused entry to a bar anywhere in the world apart from loads of times in Australia, most of time when I not have even had a drink prior!!! I am used to it now as have been twice in last 8 or so months. Rules may vary by state. I guess in Europe we just pop in the supermarket and load up what we like and it’s done. Different game in Oz!As a Brit I was very surprised at how tightly controlled alcohol sales were in Australia. I wanted to buy a bottle of whisky on my birthday while in the Northern Territory. Before I could even get inside the bottle shop I had to explain to a police officer (who carried an automatic rifle!) what I wanted to buy and where I intended to be when I drank it. And once in the shop my passport details were checked on a computer database before I was allowed to buy the whisky. Can't see that going down well in Spain or Scotland!
I think you’ve found the actual language, @Kathar1na. The press has reported that the City Council has adopted these norms, (and has listed the same 12 topics as the documents you cite) so it is an official binding document. As of now, though, they don’t include the power to impose fines. But it does give the police the power to tell people to stop the behavior. Some on the City Council are urging action to impose fines for some of the more eggregious violations, so there is surely more to come!PS: I had a look on the website of the Cathedral of Santiago and of the Tourism Office but as I said I am not sure that this is what we are talking about:
Turismo sostenible | Web Oficial de Turismo de Santiago de Compostela y sus Alrededores
Web oficial de turismo de Santiago de Compostela: etapa final del Camino de Santiago de Compostela. Ofrece información sobre Hoteles en Santiago de Compostela y la Catedral de Santiago.www.santiagoturismo.com
Yea I was in Vancouver once and told about a 2 drink limit in the bar I was in. Told if I drank too much and had a accident I could possibly sue the bar! No idea if true! That said I like being asked to show my ID at age 57 to show I am of drinking age!!It is similar in Toronto, where there are laws about public drinking. They are just now beginning, as a pilot, to allow some drinking in some specific public parks (with large signs in the parks indicating permission).
I think it is a vestige of "Toronto the Good" from many decades past when everything used to be shut down on Sundays and the temperance movement was strong.
I think that one has to be a bit more specific. On my way to Santiago I have often looked for a bench near a church and with a view to a Gothic or Romanesque church to stop and have something to eat or drink. Either a bench or a café with chairs in the open air on the square. I never felt that I was disrespectful of either the locals or the patrimony. Also, I personally would not call this a picnic, just having a rest and something to eat and drink before I continue walking, and with a nice view.To be fair, I would not know that it is against the general rules of politeness to picnic in a public square in Europe (assuming one cleans up after oneself). I have eaten publicly in many plazas in Europe over the years and been quite unaware of my rudeness.
It very interesting. For me big groups sitting in a square, even enjoying champagne, seems a positive thing (even the imagery) as long as it’s doesn’t get out of hand.I think that one has to be a bit more specific. On my way to Santiago I have often looked for a bench near a church and with a view to a Gothic or Romanesque church to stop and have something to eat or drink. Either a bench or a café with chairs in the open air on the square. I never felt that I was disrespectful of either the locals or the patrimony. Also, I personally would not call this a picnic, just having a rest and something to eat and drink before I continue walking, and with a nice view.
However, when I think of places I've been to over many years, the great Cathedrals and their squares or other immediate surrounding, I remember often people milling about, both visitors and people on their daily business. What I don't remember is people sitting on the ground in large numbers. It surprised me when I saw photos of the plaza Obradoiro with so many people sitting on the ground for the first time. And even more so when I saw photos or read news articles about people bringing champagne or beer or wine to have a kind of picnic party. This is perhaps the main issue ... the visual impact ... which is also what is says in the new Code: "VISUAL QUALITY - The cityscape surrounding you is of exceptional value: it is not a picnic area or a campsite." It is not the mere act of eating a sandwich or taking a sip from your Coke bottle, at least as I understand the communication efforts from the Santiago administration (in contrast to some private interpretations on social media ...).
Maybe I am not getting around enough anymore. I merely said that I don't recall seeing large groups sitting on the ground in front of a Cathedral or in a historic town square and/or having group picnics: Amiens, Westminster, Canterbury, York, Noyen, Senlis, Saint-Denis, Notre Dame de Paris, Poitiers, Bordeaux, Leon, Burgos, Cologne, Aachen ... and that's only what immediately came to my mind right now. It's what I have observed and not how appropriate or inappropriate I personally regard it.It very interesting. For me big groups sitting in a square, even enjoying champagne, seems a positive thing (even the imagery) as long as it’s doesn’t get out of hand.
Sure understood! I guess reaching SdC feels quite celebratory for many, maybe a in a way visiting York doesn’t, renewing acquaintances, ‘the end of the road’ and in a big group a ‘picnic’ seems a good way to go. I had a quiet lunch in restaurant with a few folks and a few cocktails and that was enough for me!Maybe I am not getting around enough anymore. I merely said that I don't recall seeing large groups sitting on the ground in front of a Cathedral or in a historic town square and/or having group picnics: Amiens, Westminster, Canterbury, York, Noyen, Senlis, Saint-Denis, Notre Dame de Paris, Poitiers, Bordeaux, Leon, Burgos, Cologne, Aachen ... and that's only what immediately came to my mind right now.
To be fair, I would not know that it is against the general rules of politeness to picnic in a public square in Europe (assuming one cleans up after oneself). I have eaten publicly in many plazas in Europe over the years and been quite unaware of my rudeness.
Very true, I have done that as well!To be fair, I would not know that it is against the general rules of politeness to picnic in a public square in Europe (assuming one cleans up after oneself). I have eaten publicly in many plazas in Europe over the years and been quite unaware of my rudeness.
The regional newspapers continue to publish about this topic. One nuisance for the locals of Santiago is the chanting of large groups when they move through the narrow streets of the old town. It is presumably also something that is more present in Santiago than in Barcelona, Venice or Amsterdam. There is an Instagram account (#Compostelaresiste) that collects and publishes such videos and photos.
These two video recordings (one of them embedded in the news article) illustrate what it's like to live in these streets. Switch on the sound. The second one was today at 9 am.
Un vecino de la zona vieja compostelana se encara con unos peregrinos que cantaban en la calle
El hombre reciminó a un grupo de estadounidenses por el ruido que estaban provocando con sus cánticos cerca del Obradoiro y que interrumpió de forma abrupta su descansowww.elcorreogallego.es
Yes. Last year it was the massive influx of groups in the context of the PEJ22 event which was held in Santiago (so the city or the region had invited them to come en masse to Santiago) and this year it is the influx of groups before and after the WYD 2023 event in Lisbon in Portugal.I see some references in the video to groups that participated in the WJD 2023 in Portugal.
I would love to know what the year-round population is in Santiago’s historical center. My bet is that it is decreasing, both because of the proliferation and greater profitability of short term rentals and also because of the annoyances that come with huge crowds of people on the streets.
The City of Santiago is trying to combat both of these things, but it really is starting to seem like a losing battle. Not to be pessimistic, but these are the same phenomena that are emptying the full time population of Lisbon and Barcelona, and surely many other cities with beautiful historic centers. I wonder if forum members are familiar with successful efforts to keep the central city alive for those who live there.
Yes, this is true for many attractive cities around the world - local population is pushed out of the city centres, by price and/or tourist behaviour.these are the same phenomena that are emptying the full time population of Lisbon and Barcelona
With respect, I don't think that's true ...It seems to me that Santiago is a bit different - simpler, in fact - as it is more of a single-focus destination.
You may well be right. My impression could be an over-simplification.With respect, I don't think that's true ..
For us (Galegos), the fact that Santiago is the Capital of Galicia is in the first place of importance..
Yes it's a major Pilgrimage Destination, but it's also a University Town, a transport hub, a secondary Regional Capital, and more importantly it's a living major city with hundreds of thousands of citizens to whom we are just transients.
Good article. Thank you for sharing . Key take for me was the ratio of residents to tourists. In many tourist places, folks visiting will be a minority and whilst noticeable will just blend in.Good article about this touristification of the city of Compostela :
https://www.elconfidencial.com/espa...en-compostela-amenaza-la-convivencia_3715263/
This is going way off topic. but rest assured, if you come to Australia, restrictions on the sale and consumption in other states and territories are nowhere near as tight as they are in the Northern Territories (and not very different to the UK - I wouldn´t live here if they were).As a Brit I was very surprised at how tightly controlled alcohol sales were in Australia.
Well I guess compared to UK et al it does feel that way, for me it’s really hugely noticeable against the vast majority of other countries! I guess if you live there it feels different! Always a way though!!This is going way off topic. but rest assured, if you come to Australia, restrictions on the sale and consumption in other states and territories are nowhere near as tight as they are in the Northern Territories (and not very different to the UK - I wouldn´t live here if they were).
This article really paints the picture well. Santiago is a city of 98,000 and it gets more than twice as many tourists per capita than Barcelona, a city of about 1.7 million. Santiago has a tourist total of 1.1 tourists per resident, while Barcelona gets .44 tourists per resident. I don’t think that’s a perfect way to measure the impact on the city, but it does highlight how extreme the numbers in Santiago are. A tourist tax is not going to stop the influx, but at least it will provide some money to deal with it.Good article about this touristification of the city of Compostela :
https://www.elconfidencial.com/espa...en-compostela-amenaza-la-convivencia_3715263/
I read a similar long article just now on eldiaro.es that was published ten days ago: Tourism in Santiago de Compostela between the threat of a collapse and the rhetoric about the millionth visitorOf course there must be problems in the old town but in my opinion the new mayor is from a political party (BNG) that are in the eye of many people included La Voz de Galicia that publishes a lot of news about it.
According to this article it is true.While the Xunta pays people to promote the camino on instagram (can that possibly be true?!),
The article confirms that local conservative newspapers talk much more now about pilgrim bad behaviour cases than in the period of the previous mayor ( PSG).I read a similar long article just now on eldiaro.es that was published ten days ago: Tourism in Santiago de Compostela between the threat of a collapse and the rhetoric about the millionth visitor
It sheds a bit more light on some of the background for this near constant flow of articles about raising numbers of visitors and bad behaviour, for example: the differences in tourism policy between the city administration of Santiago and the Galician government who are the ones with the big money for PR, especially during the Xacobeos/Holy Years and whose main aim appears to be an increase in visitor numbers; the hassle about a city tax that is wanted by the city administration but has to be approved by the Galician government who is not in favour of it; the influx of these huge faith/movement affiliated youth groups in the context of the European Youth Pilgrimage last summer "when the city collapsed" and now again this summer with groups visiting Santiago on their way from and to World Youth Day in Lisbon - their loud chanting, their group dancing in the public space, the noise they make ...; and what the two previous mayors of Santiago attempted to do and what the current mayor's goals are.
That the old town is getting empty of the local population, of families with children, of traditional shops is of course a phenomenon that is not only related to tourism but it is happening and it is sad.
A curiosity in this news article: they make a reference to numerous anecdotes and among them to the owner of a bookshop who says that there are days in which our bookstore becomes an improvised tourist information point. The so-called Camiño Francés de Santiago passes through the square, which is about 300 meters from the cathedral, and there is no municipal office there [...] a pilgrim came in to ask us about "the Wailing Wall".
[The Wailing Wall, also known as Western Wall, is in Jerusalem.]
PSG is not conservative but is not nationalist like BNG.The article confirms that local conservative newspapers talk much more now about pilgrim bad behaviour cases than in the period of the previous mayor ( PSG).
PSG is not conservative but is not nationalist like BNG
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