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Mansilla de la Mulas to León: why bother?

MaxHelado

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Gronze describes this stage as follows:

"Etapa de escaso interés paisajístico y cercana a carreteras de tráfico intenso; en el aire se barrunta la presencia de una gran ciudad, aunque en algún tramo aún nos sorprende el silencio de un mundo en calma."

I think this translates as "it's a bit pants"
I had decided that I would finish my camino in Leon but I am now seriously considering jumping on a train to Leon, maybe from Sahagun, and then walking on to Astorga.

Would appreciate any views on this.
 
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Just catch the bus from Mansilla like many do, 'cos they read Brierley's grumbles or Gronze's "Stage of little scenic interest", and figure they can justify an early doors in Leon. Time to visit the Cathedral, eat a decent lunch and find that little bar that you'll always remember with affection - once you've reviewed your photos.
 
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I would agree with one of the comments above regarding it not being an unpleasant section. In fact, I found the relatively short day into Léon very welcoming and by getting there early in the day, I had plenty of time to see the sights, relax, and eat some great food. Every day on the Camino is different and each wonderful in their own special ways.

The next day’s walk to Villar de Mazarife was quite pleasant with an overnight at the Albergue Saint Antonio de Padua. The group dinner of paella along with wonderful conversation were quintessential Camino.
 
I like that section a lot, though admittedly last couple of times I was walking towards France, not Santiago.

When you reach the outer suburbs before the city it does get less rustic certainly, but the route in has been greatly improved over the past 10 years or so -- including much nicer urban landscapes as you enter the city proper, including places to stop for refreshments -- which were non-existent well into the early 21st Century !!
 
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I am surprised every time I come on the forum to read so many posts from people who want to “do” the Camino, but don’t actually want to “walk” the Camino. What’s the deal with that? And there are always a lot of people actually encouraging them not to. Perhaps refer to the Media section on here, look at the pretty pictures, and you can save yourself time, effort, and anything at all meaningful that goes along with actually walking it.
 
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MaxHelado said:
Why?
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One could equally ask the question 'Why walk the camino at all?' Incidentally, Gronze goes on to say something on the lines of 'even so, on some sections we are surprised by a world of calm and silence' so not all bad. The camino surprises. Don't skip. You never know what you might miss. Start from Leon next time.
 
I actually enjoyed the very early morning walk from Mansilla de la Mulas to Leon on Easter morning 2022. Certainly nothing opened to grab a coffee but perhaps given the holiday, it was serene, quiet and welcoming. I would do it again. And again.
 
Walkerooni said:
I am surprised every time I come on the forum to read so many posts from people who want to “do” the Camino, but don’t actually want to “walk” the Camino. What’s the deal with that?
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This is a good question, Walkerooni. I see why you ask. My favorite (and gentle) disagreement with my husband over the years is about the verbs "to do" vs "to be," from a speech often given to young recruits by the renowned US Air Force pilot John Boyd. One could substitute "to be" with "to walk," in the context of pilgrimage. I hope others may find Boyd's words as relevant for reflection as we have.

(The funny part of our debate is that we totally aligned, just using different words for the same ideals! Also, I heartily second the recommendation of Villar de Mazarife.)

Tiger, one day you will come to a fork in the road and you’re going to have to make a decision about which direction you want to go. He raised his hand and pointed. “If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments.” Then Boyd raised his other hand and pointed in another direction. “Or you can go that way and you can do something- something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide you want to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won’t have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference. To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?
- Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War
 
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Experience the lows to appreciate the highs in life? Obviously if you are restricted by time it makes sense to skip a stage.
Anyway like an individual it is "your walk" and I wish you the best whatever you decide.
 
trecile said:
Actually there are two ways about it. I've always chosen the walking way.

Exactly. It's not necessary to walk to make a pilgrimage.
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In 2019 I sprained my ankle in Calzadilla de la Cueza and walked the next 2 days in pain to Mansilla. It was so swollen and painful I took a cab to Leon rather than walk. I didn’t know at the time this was considered ugly stretch of road. I didn’t care that I missed that section then, no interest in going back now. Plenty of peregrinos skip sections and it doesn’t diminish their Camino. Walk what you want and don’t worry about what others think.
 
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I don’t think it is such a bad stage. I will offer a reason to walk it. As you approach Leon, at about 3 miles from the center, you will be at a higher elevation. You will look down on the Catedral, standing tall, and see the snow capped mountains in the background. The first time I saw this I imagined a medieval pilgrim, who came from a village of stick huts, dropping to his knees in awe. I know I was awed by this scene and I look forward to seeing it each time.
Now the walk out of Leon, in my opinion, is truly horrible!!
 
You can do it any way you want. It's all fine.

Personally I think that the "boring" and "ugly" parts as some call them are as important as the more scenic ones.

I once talked about that with some french pilgrims who walked the Francés for the first time, after having walked from Le Puy over several years. They could not understand why in Spain the trail goes along roads so often, instead of re-routing it to go up to the hills for a more scenic walk.

For me, that kind of more direct, more easy, and less pretty/interesting path helps with introspection, and with finding beauty where one usually doesn't look for it.

The more scenic parts have external beauty, which is easy to consume. The "boring" "ugly" parts lead you to find beauty within, and in the small things along the road. It's a more internal Camino of the mind, which has its own beauty.

That's just my personal view, and why I prefer walks like the Francés over other, more scenic hikes.

If you want a scenic hike, there are countless better ones throughout Europe.

Edit: Nothing wrong with skipping stages for whatever reason. Just my personal opinion on why I, personally, also enjoy the supposedly "ugly and boring" parts. It was asked "why bother" and that's my reason. Nothing judgemental about that. If you prefer not to bother walking that section, for whatever reason, that's totally fine.
 
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Okay, enough.

To those who have offered arguments for and against skipping the stage from Mansilla to Leon, my sincere thanks.

To those of you who have judged me I offer no thanks (unsurprisingly).
I have been told to "Walk the path that is laid out in front of you", that I should "eat the cake and not just the cherry", that I want to "do the Camino and not to walk it". (This last one I don't even understand).
I find these latter comments not only unhelpful but also hurtful. (Even the one I don't understand!)

I believe that provided I am respectful of the land that I walk and of other walkers I should be able to choose how and where I travel.
 
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Each to their own. If people want to bus / taxi this stage, and any other stage, then great! It means a quieter stage for the pilgrims walking it. So I think people should be encouraged to skip 'boring' stages to allow walking pilgrims a quieter day.

Personally, I don't skip stages, ever, because I believe each section is an intrinsic part of a particular pilgrimage and each stage is a precious and vital part of the whole Camino.
 
Hi Max.
Seems like you didn’t “appreciate any views”
 
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HI @MaxHelado I think perhaps the way your headline was posted 'why bother?' meant that many who responded would outline why they had walked / recommend walking rather than skipping, as they were responding to the question.

For what it's worth, each time I walked the Frances, I took the 'alternative' path' after Sahagun (via Calzadilla de los Hermanillos), and after Leon (via Villa de Mazarife) - and enjoyed both!

Of course you should walk - or not - just as you want to. All the best, whatever you decide.
 
The fact is that you are asking for our advice ("Would appreciate any views on this."): therefore we are giving it. You are hopefully free to take it into account or not.

I have liked Mansilla to León: I was afraid of the entry of the town, which is often not very nice, but it is shorter than I imagined.

According to me, there is no "rule" for the Camino: the most important is to take pleasure walking on it, and almost to become best while walking, by meeting others, meeting myself...

My (humble) opinion is that the "not-so-beautiful" steps help to appreciate the nice days, and there is always something to take from a day of walk on the Camino. Therefore I wish you to not pass beside happy times !

Buen Camino !
 
Thank you, Pelerina
Yes, I can see that the wording of my headline may have contributed to some of the responses. It was intended to be light-hearted (as I try to make most of my posts).
And I have no problem whatsoever with those that recommend walking the full route. I totally "get" that point of view and I completely respect it.
My objection is to the judgement, in my opinion, that one way is right and another is wrong.
 
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Again, your advice is very much appreciated.
And to my mind, completely free from judgement.
I thank you for that.
 
MaxHelado said:
My objection is to the judgement, in my opinion, that one way is right and another is wrong.
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Some people have strong opinions on matters related to pilgrimage. On both sides of whatever the particular fence may be. Should no-one be allowed to express any definite opinion that someone else could possibly disagree with? If you are confident in your own thinking and practice why object to a contrary view which you are not obliged to follow in any case?
 
@WalkingLester, you are the only poster so far, out of a good two dozen replies, who offers a specific reason for walking this specific section into Leon.

Like you, I always marvel at the sight of a major Gothic cathedral rising from the ground and seen from afar, whether I am on foot, in a car or in a train. Even with modern high buildings in a city their cathedral often still dominates its surroundings because the architecture of the old part of the town is protected.

I vividly remember the view from a hill near Leon. However, at the time, the Camino Frances trail was deviated away from the main road into Leon because of roadworks and pilgrims walked up and down a hill to the right of it. If memory does not fail me, it was while descending the hill that I saw Leon Cathedral in the distance.

Just wondering: Is such a view still possible now that the Camino Francés trail is back to its former trajectory?
 
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I am not objecting to a contrary view. Not at all. I welcome different views.
I am objecting to some of the posts which, to my mind, are judgemental and unhelpful.
 
Thank you for this.
 
I am surprised that you did not expect such replies. I see from your profile that you've been on the forum for quite a while and that you already walked to Santiago on a Camino. In the given context, such replies are as certain as the amen in church, as the saying goes. They are not necessarily directed at you personally, more at a generic you, at Camino peregrin@s in general.

There is an idea that you must not skip any section otherwise you will not find your true self, will not be transformed as you should be or could be, will not get answers to questions you might not know you have, and the Camino will give you what you need and not what you want. You have never read this before on the forum? Amazing ...

It is difficult to not touch on the ever present question of what a pilgrimage is. It is not defined by walking "all" the way on foot, that is certain; pilgrimage is not even defined by walking as such. And a Camino, especially the unique Camino Francés, how is that defined? An overall definition does not exist but that is not accepted by everybody.

I believe that provided I am respectful of the land that I walk and of other walkers I should be able to choose how and where I travel.
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And that is all that is required, at least in my book. But for some, a specific inner attitude is quintessential for being on Camino and no amount of discussion in forum threads will change that - even when you have explicitly decided to avoid staying in certain categories of albergues in order to not be in conflict with certain philosophies but that is another thorny topic.

I can see that the wording of my headline may have contributed to some of the responses. It was intended to be light-hearted (as I try to make most of my posts).
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Yep, the thread title attracts such responses. On the other hand, there is much to be said for a thread title that catches the attention of the reader.
 
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I took that bus and really regret it now – it's the only stretch of the Frances I did not walk and part of me feels like I need to go back and walk that section to truly complete it! If I ever holiday in the area I'll get my other half to drop me off in Mansilla and I will walk that part to Leon. On the plus side, I arrived in Leon fresh faced, got a great hostel bed, a nice breakfast, had a deep and meaningful conversation with a clock enthusiast in front of the cathedral, toured the Cathedral and went and bought new trail shoes in the time it would have taken to walk along a highway for hours.
 
The view that I enjoyed was available in March 2018 and July 2021. I don’t know anything about the roadworks.
 
One of the things I love is how, especially in the first 2 weeks, you walk up a hill, and look down into the valley, and see the spire, and know that the walk takes you there.
Sometimes when there are multiple villages in sight, and spires, I wondered which one I would pass.
 
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I skipped the way from Carillon to Leon due to time constraints earlier this year. I dropped this section as it was widely regarded as less ‘interesting’ but I now feel the strong urge, like you, to go back, complete, and fully embrace it.

In fact, I’m planning to do precisely that (as well as St. JeanPDP to Pamplona, which I also had to omit, and the dreaded Burgos entry, where I succumbed to the temptation of the city bus) in late Septembe/early October this year
 
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Burton Axxe said:
the dreaded Burgos entry
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To enter inside Burgos, you can choose between two options:
- the "standard" way goes right of the airport when you arrive, and it seems it is quite boring.
- the river way goes left of the airport, and it is quite long, but along the riverside, you can see the marvellous cathedral from far.
 
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I quite agree with you. I had caught the bus on an earlier Camino and then walked into Leon the next year. I really enjoyed the whole walk from Sahagun to Leon. I am so pleased that I did it and would do it again without hesitation.
 
Exactly what we did because J.Brierley said we could! We finished in Léon that year.
If we'd not caught that bus I would never have sat next to a lovely lady who told me how to buy a senior rail card. Next day we bought our senior cards and very cheap train tickets to Santander.
That lady was heaven sent. As was the advice from J.B.
 
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Actually, I knew of it and actively looked for the alternate route but the dirt road leading off the asphalt airport road past the housing block was infested with dump trucks and accompanying clouds of dust. That day, at least, it looked even less promising than the slog around the airport perimeter, if you can imagine that.
 
MaxHelado said:
Why?
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Because people have different definitions and ways that they choose to walk. I happen to agree that you take the good and the bad, the beauty and the beast. I do not think pilgrimage is meant to be easy and pleasant on the eyes and ears, let alone the body or mind or spirit. But it seems you have your own definition of your camino. The walk into Leon does suck. The walk around the airport in Burgos is awful also. There is a variant into Burgos. But I didn't know about it when I walked and when I did it was late November and it was raining and really muddy and I just followed the planes.
So yes it is bad, and I think you probably answered your own question before you asked it. Take the bus. No one really will care one way or the other.

I think that what @Walkerooni wrote completely encapsulates what I feel and how I view my caminos
I also believe that @Kathar1na really summed up the general feeling of people who had a different opinion than you do.
I really agree with what she wrote that she is surprised that you got some replies that you may not have expected. I am constantly surprised when someone asks a question like this and then gets very defensive when they do not get a supportive hug of an answer. I can tell you from experience that one very important thing I learned walking 7 caminos is that my ego is one of my greatest enemies. That I am judging what others have said or done when really it has no effect on my life and, really who gives a s@#t. I really do believe it is your ego that been bruised because you did not hear only reinforcement for something you had already decided upon. So just go walk the way you want because when it comes down to it, how you walk and where you walk in the grand scheme has no effect on the rest of the people whatsoever. So why worry or complain?????
 
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LTfit said:
Maybe because you didn't take the alternative route. I never understand why pilgrims choose to walk along the side of the road if not necessary.
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No, I didn't! Those were actually my first kms on the Francés ever. I was walking the Via de la Plata from Salamanca in August and at Benavente I was a little bit done with walking on my own. And also very curious about The Famous Francés everyone was raving about. So I took a bus from Benavente to León and started walking. I had absolutely no idea of the road walking... I really wondered what all those people were doing there, but I did enjoy the social experience.
 
Someone can correct me if I am wrong but isn’t the “polka dot town” in this stretch? Villamoros de Mansilla. A very curious walk!
 
If you've been there before it's pointless to head to the Cathedral. As you enter Leon, dive West until you hit the river, then follow the river up to the bridge you normally you cross and rejoin the Camino. You are still walking it, but it's slightly more pleasant. Also going via the river gives you access to a Lidl if you need to resupply anything food or drink related. Also walking by the river is somewhat more enjoyable and refreshing than forcing through the throngs at the Cathedral.

Beyond that you could head up Avenida de Portugal, then Caye del la Raya and snake your way through until you are about half way up the hill from Virgin del Camino. That would spare you walking through the centre of Leon, give you access to shops to resupply and put you on the other side as quickly as possible. I haven't walked this route, as when i did it, I headed over to the Lidl, grabbed some stuff and then went North next to the river and rejoined the main route further up. But it's a possibility if you are looking to stay dedicated to the cause, no matter what, but want to avoid most of the industrial/crowded bits.
 
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@Orujo My thoughts as well. I would have trouble telling someone that I walked any camino if I did anything other than walk. I never expect every step to be easy or exciting ... but if I didn't do every step, with my backpack, I, personally, would not feel that I did my Camino.
Buen Camino
 
A question like that says a lot about the people who walk the camino today. To me it's not about being entertained or going to beautiful places. The places that are talked about that are boring are the most valuable to me. This is where you meet yourself. And find peace.
 
Exactly. I cringe when I read that this part or that part of the Camino being ugly, boring or whatever. It is all part of the experience.

I'm so glad I never followed other's advice about skipping parts. It is all so subjective anyway.
 
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So I just walked this section in the last week...Actually did the Camino Madrid which merged at Sahagun, and left the Camino on Tuesday at Leon...it is definitely not a beautiful section...but after seeing more Pilgrims in the first five minutes after joining the Francis, than in the previous 12 days on the Madrid, I would say the argument for not skipping is the people you would meet by doing those segments...Had two great nights in the two Albergues I stayed at...interesting people who were fun to talk to....its a trade off...
 
Do as you please. Either walk rhe camino or dont. At the end of the day it's your choice. Nobody else can make it for you. I've no idea what yoy want people to say?
 
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george.g said:
Hi Max.
Seems like you didn’t “appreciate any views”
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I met a guy walking a few days ago (the CF) who was doing “the best of the Camino”—a package. They just skip around on busses and stuff. He was enjoying himself. My Caminos force me to confront my essentially judgmental nature and soften it.
 
Aside from your changing your mind on your finish point, the answer to the title question, "Why Bother?" is fundamentally: If one did not walk from Saint Jean PP to Santiago, then one did not walk the whole Camino Frances. Many can still get a certificate for participation.
 
Did the train once, went to mass in cathedral then walked up to virgin. Had I not, then I would never have met a great friend, Mees van Der sluijs now sadly departed, with whom I walked into Santiago. Regretted missing out on that section ever since though
 
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LTfit said:
I never understand why pilgrims choose to walk along the side of the road if not necessary.
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Well, mainly because some of us are pilgrims rather than hikers ; though very many here are both.

But what is this "necessary" ?

Every Camino is by choice, not obligation.

As to the "official" route into Burgos on the main road and through a long industrial area ; then some cityscape ...

Well.

I ended up walking that in the 2021 part of my last Camino, and I must say that it was far better than any time previous.

Strict speed limits have been imposed, there are many benches along the way, a pavement/sidewalk has been built for the pilgrims, there are places to stop and rest out of the heat and get some beverage or other, and so on and so forth.

Generally though, I would say that to deliberately avoid walking into or out of cities along the Way is to impoverish one's Camino.
 
FourSeasons said:
Do we have to be entertained 24/7? Walk the path that is laid out before you.
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MaxHelado said:
Well, I would were it not for the fact that someone built a main road next to it.
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FourSeasons said:
Okay, getting to Leon quickly could be the way to go then walk the variant to Villar de Mazarife out of Leon onto Astorga. A more pleasant route. Buen Camino
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@MaxHelado you see my first comment as judgy and hurtful yet you didn't acknowledge my second comment where I offered a more supportive way. I'm not sure you can be pleased. I'm hopeful the Camino will sort this out for you. Oh, I'm on the side of walking every step unless illness or injury prevents a pilgrim from doing so.

Again, I wish you a Buen Camino
 
LTfit said:
Maybe because you didn't take the alternative route. I never understand why pilgrims choose to walk along the side of the road if not necessary.
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Yes that way is quite remote, almost like being in an old western movie. I liked it.
 
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Truer words have never been spoken. Thank you for such a perfect answer. The camino is a journey or each of our's body, mind and spirit. Some of my most cherished memories came from cold and damp albergues, Desolate plains on the VDLP counting olive trees and laughing. Walking on the VDLP, Meseta in November and finding myself in an almost meditative state. When my mind becomes blank and I feel so light and peaceful. Sometimes in those moments my darling Dad comes to me and speaks to me clear as day in my heart and I can taste the happiness. Even though around me there is nothing but olive trees, the smell of cow dung, the endless dormant farmland of the Meseta. This is what I walk for.
 
I agree and when you have stages like this is when you can best clear your head and heart of everything. Walk light and find happiness in just being.
 
On my last camino I walked along the river. It was dark almost the whole way. Just a few cars and a few dog walkers and joggers. It is the best way to go for sure.
 
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markie6 said:
View attachment 148438
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I think that your photo answers my earlier question about where you can see the Cathedral of Leon for the first time from afar on the Camino Frances. I do not recall this view. I saw it from a - dare I say it - more scenic spot on a wooded hill because at the time the main Camino trail into Leon was closed for pedestrians due to roadworks.

I thought I had taken a photo but I apparently I didn't; I rarely take 'traditional' photos and mainly just photos of something unusual. So I give you a view backwards on the Camino trail from where I came and where I had spotted the Cathedral of Leon for the first time which was from a spot near the trees at the top of this hill; the trail was wet and muddy and steep and slippery which was my main reason for the photo . I didn't see the masts which were behind me when I saw the Cathedral in the distance. I can see it all so clearly in my mind :

 
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IIRC you get pointed off the long straight hill ( before the blue pedestrian bridge that appears to not be used atm ) to the left and head down the roadside now ( sept 22 )
 
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JabbaPapa said:
Generally though, I would say that to deliberately avoid walking into or out of cities along the Way is to impoverish one's Camino.
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I agree with @JappaPapa on this, although I have faced circumstances which resulted in missing a substantial portion of a camino route. In 2016 my wife and I took the train from Burgos to Leon after she had been diagnosed with a severe allergy to wheat pollen. We felt that walking the Meseta in spring would have been a quite difficult undertaking, even if she could have addressed the symptoms with medication.

But when one contemplates not walking part of a route because it lacks scenic appeal or involves walking in mainly urban areas without the aesthetic appeal of ancient city centres, you raise the prospect that your priority is sightseeing. Where on the spectrum of necessity to indulgence does one cease being a pilgrim, and become a walker merely interested in their own entertainment?

There was this other comment, in this case from @MaxHelado, on a theme one sees often enough here that we each walk our own Camino, as if that is some reason to just do as one pleases.

MaxHelado said:
I believe that provided I am respectful of the land that I walk and of other walkers I should be able to choose how and where I travel.
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This is a wonderfully aspirational statement that appears sensible enough on the face of it, but just doesn't stand up to any deeper scrutiny. In the extreme, it is a completely selfish notion that ignores the rights and privileges of others to the quiet enjoyment of their property. Even applied to what might look like ordinary farmland, a notion like this has the potential to destroy a farmer's livelihood if they have chosen to pursue production that requires the establishment and maintenance of a quarantine controlled facility to grow crops or raise livestock. There is much more than being respectful of the land at stake here, it is being respectful of the people who own it or work it and rely on it to support themselves and their families.
 
I have a different question on the subject of León. Now that I have been there, seen the city, I can see myself skipping the city.

Is there a possible variant route that just by passes the city, without walking through it? Google maps shows a 30 km route walking from Mansilla de Mulas to Villar de Mazarife, going through Cembranos, as a possible mid-way stopping point. After Cembranos, the Google maps route goes through the Laguna Arca "hiking area" on it way to Villar de Mazarife.

Has anybody ever tried that to avoid the 2 stages of León urban sprawl?

Jim
 
A very personal opinion: When I walked the Frances in 2019, I took a bus from Leon to the outskirts of town, because the guidebook said it was through an industrial area, and I wouldn’t be missing anything. That decision always bothered me when asked by others if I had walked “the entire way”. Fast forward to 2022…. I walked the Frances a second time (because I love the Frances and am a glutton for punishment apparently…), and walked out of Leon, choosing to not take a bus or taxi the entire route. Was it worth the walk? It was indeed through an industrial area, then some residential, not at all interesting and for the most part lacking in views. Am I happy I walked instead of bussed through it the second time? Immensely! Please realize I do not hold anything against those who take a bus here or there through the Camino. It’s just that for me, it mattered that I was honest in my response that I had actually WALKED the Camino.
 
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Both the way into and the way out of Léon would not make Instagram light up, but I agree with you that it is what it is. Walk it or skip it. I walked.
 
To try and answer your question "why bother walking into Leon" and not be judgemental.

I'll start by saying that I am not one to say you gave to walk every step to undertake a Camino or be a pilgrim. My first Camino I certainly did not walk every step. For many years I felt it was less of a pilgrimage. But when I did actually walk a complete Camino and looked back on my first Camino, re-reading my diaries, it immediately became clear that the first was every bit as much a pilgrimage and Camino as the second. So I'm not going to judge you and call you less of a pilgrim if you take a bus.

That said, I think those who talk about the first view of the town and cathedral and walking to it. I also think there is something about travelling at a human pace and measuring out a country with our footsteps, all of it, the rural and urban, forest and farmland, beautiful and ugly that is lost when we speed by portions. There was a powerful feeling of change when I took the bus from Finisterre back to Santiago of moving from one mode of travel and being back to another that I think would have been much less impact full had I been won't to take buses throughout the Camino (and that I didnt have at the end of my first Camino - there was certainly a feeling of completion and change, but it was different).

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.
 
Everyone must choose what is best for them given their own goals and motivations. One does not cease to be a pilgrim because they make choices others might not make. For some, walking every step is important; for others it is not. But one who walks the “whole thing” is not superior to or more of a pilgrim than someone who does not, regardless of the reason someone might skip one or more parts.

In my mind, the only real rule on the Camino is that if you want the Compostela at the end you have to have walked all of the last 100km. Before that, do what suits you. Whatever someone else thinks of your choices is irrelevant if you are happy with those choices.
 
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I have done it, on my 1994 -- because there was no Albergue in León that year.

It is a very beautiful walk ; though there's a dual carriageway to cross.
 
MassNative said:
Has anybody ever tried that to avoid the 2 stages of León urban sprawl?
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If you didn't want to stop in Leon, one could always arrange to stay somewhere just short of the city and cross it in day's walking. There was an albergue in La Virgen del Camino when I walked this in 2016, but it isn't listed on Gronze. If it isn't open any longer, there are other options still available.
 
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To me, it is all what your premise is !! Why do you want to do this route, can you and will you do it??
The first time around, I wanted to take every step...
Wanting Not to miss out on anything..Honour my own given task...
In my head, this is Freedom, not having to do this query every GD day: will this be worth it?
- be worth my while?? Better then just to have to do the task..
First time is important in time , money, aspirations, and self appreciation.
After that it changed for me - but the first time was important...
 
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MassNative said:
Has anybody ever tried that to avoid the 2 stages of León urban sprawl?
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If you were prepared to do a long day, you might be able to take advantage of the camino arriving from the SE and leaving to the WSW. Cutting across from Mansilla to Villar de Mazarife would be pretty much a straight westerly walk well to the south of the city. It looks long, perhaps a bit more than 30 km, with no guarantee of the villages along the way having anything in the way of services pilgrims expect in even the smallest places. But if one were that determined to avoid seeing the places where ordinary city dwellers live, work, play and pray, that might be an option. And of course, there may be no more appealing vistas than the one's that you would have been experiencing for the previous several days
 
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I have thought of that, but it does not avoid the urban sprawl of León.

I have played with the Google maps walking route and Google street view. It does seem like this is a viable alternate route, from my quick glance.

Out of Mansilla de Mulas follow road LE-512 which crosses agricultural land. It is a paved road with shoulders, but much of the route has dirt roads running parallel to the road, like much of the Camino in the Meseta. LE-512 goes through Villacelema (hotel + services), Villanueva de las Manzanas (at least 1 Casa Rural + a Bar and I assume apples!), and ends at the Palaquinos train station (bar).

Then turn right onto LE-6611, a smaller paved road that parallels the train tracks to the Rio Esla, which it crosses on a single lane bridge, with a separate pedestrian bridge. Continue on to Vega de Infanziones (Casa Rural + services).

Out of that town, take Camino Cabezada across Train tracks, over A-231, into Cembranos (at least one Casa Rural, 2 restaurants, tienda). That is 16.5 kms

After Cembranos, it gets pretty rural walking on dirt roads, Carretera Cembranos-Banucius to Camino de Banacius through the Laguna Arca hiking area into Villar de Mazarife. That is a total of 13.4 kms from Cembranos without entering any villages, although Banacius (Bar) would be a short detour. Going north through Ardincino (Bar + tienda) adds 1.2 kms to the walk and more pavement.

There, I have created the Anti-Urban Sprawl Camino Variant!

Jim
 
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‘Why bother?’
Urban sprawl - I love it.
It takes me to places where ordinary’ Spaniards live and work. I can stop in workers cafes/ bars for excellent food. See and hear the trucks rumble by. See and feel what city Spaniards see and feel. Look in shop windows and want/buy nothing because I will have to carry it. Get away from my own and others ‘preciousness’ at being a pilgrim. Be ordinary and un-special.
For me it’s all part of that multilayered cake that is the Camino.
 
This is the post I made (to my Facebook) the day I walked into León. Just wanted to share to give you my recent perspective.

 
That's good that it is your thing, you should do your Camino.

I've seen it once. If I walk through there again, I will consider an alternative, for my Camino...

Jim
 
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I loved your response, thank you for this refreshing perspective!
 
Everyone walks their own walk
 
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Love this….do what makes you happy
Life is too short - as my dear Dad said “you’re a long time dead”
 
My thoughts too!! Wouldn’t miss the urban sprawl
 
Flauna said:
I think you're reading into it too much. He hasn't responded to anyone since post #35.
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I’m not reading into it too much. Why would you even need to make such a comment? Besides, I don’t care if he responds to my post or not. If he’s going to call me out for what he feels a judgy comment then acknowledge the more supportive one as well. I stand by my first comment. Take the road as it comes. Take the good and the bad on the Camino as in life.
 
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JimG59 said:
When walking a Camino, you eat the whole cake not just the icing and cherry.
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With respect it's an 18km stretch out of a total of 780km. But everyone is different.
 
The comment was inocuous enough, and not intended to be judgemental!
 
I walked Reliegos to Oncina last time through, other stops nearer either end would be doable. This was the first time I didn't stop in all the major cities, I wouldn't not walk through them though. I'll spend enough of the rest of my year walking places at home and wishing I was back on Camino
 
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Remember your opinion is also a judgement.
 
MaxHelado said:
To those of you who have judged me I offer no thanks (unsurprisingly).
I have been told to "Walk the path that is laid out in front of you", that I should "eat the cake and not just the cherry", that I want to "do the Camino and not to walk it".
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MaxHelado said:
I find these latter comments not only unhelpful but also hurtful.
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I am having a very difficult time understanding the difference between opinion and judgement, in the context of this thread. I have reread the early posts and find a couple of aphorisms, but nothing that I see as "judgemental" or hurtful.
 
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MaxHelado said:
Would appreciate any views on this.
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Why? Because it's what pilgrims do. Walking. Taking the good together with the less wonderful. Like life. We can't cherry-pick that.

If people want to omit parts of the camino they judge to be less 'nice,' that's completely their business, but also a kind of a loss.

JabbaPapa said:
It is a very beautiful walk ; though there's a dual carriageway to cross.
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Eeek How? Presumably there's a road crossing someplace?
 
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The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
VNwalking said:

Eeek How? Presumably there's a road crossing someplace?
Click to expand...


I checked on Google maps. There is a bridge over the highway on the route I outlined. There is a second highway crossing, also with a bridge.

The railroad track crossing I found is at grade, on a road with signals.

I didn't find any crossings which would preclude this alternate route.

Jim
 
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