Look what popped up during my online Spanish lesson

[trecile]

I've been taking lessons online with a tutor via Baselang for a few weeks, and today this slide came up during the lesson, which prompted a discussion about the Camino - though I really don't need much prompting to talk about the Camino.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It's my favorite bridge on the Camino Frances.

 

[Robo]

I always struggle with Grammar learning languages.

I don't really even understand English Grammar.
I just know what sounds right.

Drives Pat nuts when she askes me to explain English Grammar

 

[NicP]

That’s a lovely coincidence! Any excuse to talk about the Camino is a good excuse....

 

[henrythedog]

I always struggle with Grammar learning languages.

I don't really even understand English Grammar.
I just know what sounds right.

Drives Pat nuts when she askes me to explain English Grammar

Me too!

I’m reasonably certain that I was never taught English grammar whilst at school (in England). I have a better understanding of grammar generally through learning Spanish for the last couple of years.

In the same way, friends who learned English as a second (or third or fourth..) language speak it more grammatically correctly than I.

 

[woody66]

Hi everyone!
I have always tried to learn enough of a language to survive!(i can spout the usual main phrases you need )
I am trying harder with Spanish and getting better i hope, with using the right personal pronoun in a sentence etc!
But that combined with past,present and future tenses really gets me in a spin just a question of absorbing the info and retaining it is a struggle! Also being able to bring the words to mind quickly enough to make it coherent to the listener in the real World.

Trecile i am still plugging away with Transfer Language but so much of Spanish still remains elusive!

I have a tip for anyone having problems with English Grammar!
Simply explain that English grammar is the mother of your mum or dad ha!ha!
Sorry for that guys just me trying to be a smart ar*se!!!! (and failing)
Woody

 

[TMcA]

I always struggle with Grammar learning languages.

So do I...

Try the Pimsleur method. No grammar involved. Here in the U.S., the instructional CDs or cassettes can be borrowed from many libraries.

And @Robo, this is the method I used to learn Thai many years ago. Living in Thailand for two years in an immersive environment completed my learning.

 

[Pelegrin]

Sorry for the joke but the third phrase invites to start the phrase with "En periodos de gran sequia, usualmente,........."

 

[Bristle Boy]

Could I also suggest meetup groups if there is one in your area. A great way to mutually share languages....and you can have a coffee at the same time...when the time is right.

 

[Colette Z]

I've been taking lessons online with a tutor via Baselang for a few weeks, and today this slide came up during the lesson, which prompted a discussion about the Camino - though I really don't need much prompting to talk about the Camino.

View attachment 95161

It’s a SIGN

 

[Camino Chrissy]

My favorite bridge...

 

[SkyDancer]

I’ve been learning Spanish with Duolingo, it’s great fun. And free!

 

[Sue127]

I’ve been learning Spanish with Duolingo, it’s great fun. And free!

I’m doing the same and I’ve asked my grandson to ask me some questions in Spanish so that I have to find an answer rather than just translate.

 

[Former member 91017]

I always struggle with Grammar learning languages.

I don't really even understand English Grammar.
I just know what sounds right.

Drives Pat nuts when she askes me to explain English Grammar

You can refer grammar queries to me. I taught ESL/EFL for 4 years and I adore grammar, syntax, rhetoric etc [gave it up only when I entered my university position, wasn't fired or anything like that]. I'm merely a terrible typist.

 

[Wendy Werneth]

@Pelegrin True, it would be hard to live there at any other time!

For those studying Spanish on Duolingo, I highly recommend using the Stories feature if you aren't already. In my opinion, Duolingo Stories are one of the best free language resources available, and they're also the only feature really worth using on the app.

Speaking as a professional translator and all-around language geek, the key to learning a language is not translating sentences or studying grammar rules. It's consuming content in the language that's appropriate for your level, also known as "comprehensible input". Immerse yourself as much as possible in Spanish content, both written content and audiovisual, and eventually you will just know intuitively how things should be said because you've heard them so many times before.

 

[trecile]

For those studying Spanish on Duolingo, I highly recommend using the Stories feature if you aren't already. In my opinion, Duolingo Stories are one of the best free language resources available, and they're also the only feature really worth using on the app.

Their podcast (also free) is very good also.
During my lesson today I learned about another site for listening practice:

Learn Spanish from native speakers

Learn real Spanish for free. Enjoy more than 400 free lessons and tips for you to improve your Spanish. All videos are made by native speakers from different Spanish-speaking countries. Perfect for teachers and students.

www.spanishlistening.org

 

[julie]

@Pelegrin the key to learning a language is not translating sentences or studying grammar rules. It's consuming content in the language that's appropriate for your level, also known as "comprehensible input". Immerse yourself as much as possible in Spanish content, both written content and audiovisual, and eventually you will just know intuitively how things should be said because you've heard them so many times before.

I spent many years learning first French and then Spanish using the traditional method of textbook and grammar only to find that I became grammar-fixated and didn't want to open my mouth to speak until I had mentally worked out the word order and tenses. I decided to have a go at learning Italian but was determined not to do it in the same way. I was fortunate enough to do a term with Italia 500 in Sydney (beginner terms 1 and 2 are also available on Vimeo) before Covid struck. Since then my learning has been via Duolingo, podcasts and YouTube videos. What an enormous difference! Granted French and Spanish help in understanding Italian but I am amazed at how comfortable I feel with the language and how much grammar I have absorbed without actively studying verb conjugasions.

I think it is important to learn in the target language as far as possible and I steer away from podcasts/videos that contain any English. There are lots of good resources for Spanish learners. A good podcast for beginners is Unlimited Spanish (website https://unlimitedspanish.com/) and for intermediates Español con Juan (website https://1001reasonstolearnspanish.com/).

 

[Wendy Werneth]

I spent many years learning first French and then Spanish using the traditional method of textbook and grammar only to find that I became grammar-fixated and didn't want to open my mouth to speak until I had mentally worked out the word order and tenses. I decided to have a go at learning Italian but was determined not to do it in the same way. I was fortunate enough to do a term with Italia 500 in Sydney (beginner terms 1 and 2 are also available on Vimeo) before Covid struck. Since then my learning has been via Duolingo, podcasts and YouTube videos. What an enormous difference! Granted French and Spanish help in understanding Italian but I am amazed at how comfortable I feel with the language and how much grammar I have absorbed without actively studying verb conjugasions.

I think it is important to learn in the target language as far as possible and I steer away from podcasts/videos that contain any English. There are lots of good resources for Spanish learners. A good podcast for beginners is Unlimited Spanish (website https://unlimitedspanish.com/) and for intermediates Español con Juan (website https://1001reasonstolearnspanish.com/).

I'm glad to hear about your success with immersion in Italian! And thanks for sharing those resources for Spanish. There's a podcast that I used to listen to years ago called Notes in Spanish. Each episode is a natural conversation in Spanish between a British/Spanish couple who live in Madrid. They have beginner, intermediate and advanced episodes, and you can also get the transcripts from their website.

 

[Desert Bruce]

I've been using Duolingo for several years. It isn't perfect, but it does have free, donativo, events via zoom everyday. My Spanish is improving by listening and speaking with native speakers from around the world. I also use Pimsleur and Rosetta Stone.
I will be ready to order pimientos in Padrón next October.
Espero que suceda.
Buen Camino!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

In my junior high school (middle school) grammar was taught using sentence diagrams (Wikipedia). It may just be an American thing. I wasn't too good at this and when I requested to take a language I was refused. In high school I didn't need permission and I signed up for Spanish. I was just getting by in the first semester but then something clicked and I understood what was going on with all that damn diagramming.

 

[wynrich]

Trecile, thanks a lot for posting. That must have been a thrill to come across that exercise. Thanks to others for sharing learning resources. I'm excited to check out those new sources. (I agree the following are fantastic: Pimsleur, Language Transfer, Notes in Spanish, Unlimited Spanish, Duolingo stories.)

A couple of other free podcasts I have come to really appreciate and enjoy for intermediate level immersion/listening practice are:

Hoy Hablamos. Roi is originally from Galicia!
https://www.hoyhablamos.com/

Espanol Automatico. Karo and her husband currently live in Barcelona but speak native Spanish (she is learning Catalan herself):

Español Automático

Español Automático helps you improve Spanish listening and speaking skills by creating Spanish immersion environment to help you speak Spanish fluently and effortlessly.

www.espanolautomatico.com

 

[Bert45]

You can refer grammar queries to me. I taught ESL/EFL for 4 years and I adore grammar, syntax, rhetoric etc [gave it up only when I entered my university position, wasn't fired or anything like that]. I'm merely a terrible typist.

How do you feel when somebody uses 'lay' when it should be 'lie', and when somebody says 'for you and I'?

 

[Former member 91017]

How do you feel when somebody uses 'lay' when it should be 'lie', and when somebody says 'for you and I'?

How do I feel? nauseated. What do I do about it? depends on the context.
Spoken language has many glitches, false starts, and errors made because of the over-application of a poorly understood rule. When I was being paid to help people improve their spoken language, I would correct them. In daily life, I would never do any such thing.

 

[Desert Bruce]

Growing up my grandmother lived with us, she had been a school teacher, I couldn't get away with anything. I remember her commenting every time she heard the old Winston commercial, "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should." Apparently her corrections of my speech sank in; I cringe when I hear someone say, "me and my friends..."

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

When I was being paid to help people improve their spoken language, I would correct them. In daily life, I would never do any such thing

I complement you on you're principals.

 

[Bert45]

How do I feel? nauseated. What do I do about it? depends on the context.
Spoken language has many glitches, false starts, and errors made because of the over-application of a poorly understood rule. When I was being paid to help people improve their spoken language, I would correct them. In daily life, I would never do any such thing.

I don't know about nauseated, but it does annoy me. I do email a blogger if the blog is generally well written with only a few common mistakes. They usually don't mind. What is really annoying is the fact that English is, they say, ever changing. We don't speak like Chaucer of Shakespeare did. When almost everybody makes the same mistake (as with 'lay' and 'lie'), the mistake becomes accepted as correct. It seems that everybody pronounces 'dissect' to rhyme with 'bisect'. I haven't seen that in a dictionary yet, but it won't be long.

 

[Icacos]

I complement you on you're principals.

Naughty

 

[stinmd]

I always struggle with Grammar learning languages.

I don't really even understand English Grammar.
I just know what sounds right.

Drives Pat nuts when she askes me to explain English Grammar

Everyone should learn Chinese, which has no grammar/tenses, gender or plurality - what's not to like ;-)

 

[trecile]

It seems that everybody pronounces 'dissect' to rhyme with 'bisect'. I haven't seen that in a dictionary yet, but it won't be long.

According to the Cambridge dictionary the two words to pretty much rhyme. At least when I listen to the audio file pronunciations.

How to pronounce DISSECT in English

How to pronounce DISSECT. How to say DISSECT. Listen to the audio pronunciation in the Cambridge English Dictionary. Learn more.

dictionary.cambridge.org

How to pronounce BISECT in English

How to pronounce BISECT. How to say BISECT. Listen to the audio pronunciation in the Cambridge English Dictionary. Learn more.

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

It seems that everybody pronounces 'dissect' to rhyme with 'bisect'. I haven't seen that in a dictionary yet, but it won't be long.

Well, I found another word that I often pronounce two ways for no apparent reason ("lilac" is the only one I can remember but I know there are others).

In my head I could hear myself saying:

"I'm going to di-sect the frog"​

but also

"Are you going to dis-sect the frog?"​

 

[C clearly]

I cringe when I hear someone say, "me and my friends..."

I am more annoyed when I hear the over-correction (which is fast becoming standard) of "My friend invited my friend and I to go to the party."

Over the years, I have lost a lot of my grammar-police tendencies. I love grammar and the analysis of it. However, most grammar rules are arbitrary and they change. English is particularly messy - and forgiving, which is great for its role as an international second language.

I just wish that clear and logical writing were taught in schools. (Note use of subjunctive there. This is another feature of English grammar that has almost disappeared, and I cannot think of any reason it is really needed - except to show that I am a grammatically-sophisticated person.)

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Everyone should learn Chinese, which has no grammar/tenses, gender or plurality - what's not to like ;-)

Learning this! ;-)

 

[C clearly]

Learning this!

What is it?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

What is it?

Unusual Chinese symbols used instead of an alphabet.

 

[Wendy Werneth]

Having spent several years studying Chinese, I can say that it's true the grammar is incredibly minimalistic. Lots of things are really simple in Chinese, like the names of the months and days of the week. January is month one, February is month two, Monday is day one, Tuesday is day two, etc.

It's also true that you need to know about 3,000 characters to speak it at an advanced level. And you need to be able to hear and pronounce different tones. But I've always loved the characters and the tones, so that never bothered me. I'm not going to say Chinese is easy, but it does have aspects that are easier than in any other language I've encountered.

 

[Former member 91017]

I don't know about nauseated, but it does annoy me. I do email a blogger if the blog is generally well written with only a few common mistakes. They usually don't mind. What is really annoying is the fact that English is, they say, ever changing. We don't speak like Chaucer of Shakespeare did. When almost everybody makes the same mistake (as with 'lay' and 'lie'), the mistake becomes accepted as correct. It seems that everybody pronounces 'dissect' to rhyme with 'bisect'. I haven't seen that in a dictionary yet, but it won't be long.

Of course.

Languages change, but they do not exist free of any shared regulation. Word games we may be stuck with, and the endless deferral of "truth" may plague any linguistics scholar, but we do have shared meanings and rules from which we cannot depart on a whim.
I think I tend toward the misophonic and there are word-uses that sound to me as unappealing as chewing with one's mouth open.
It is also my profession, in part, to improve students' technical use of language.
Take, for example, "anyways". Pick one. You can only travel one way at a time but any way you choose will be fine; anyway, as a conjugation the term is itself sloppy.
As children, we were charged 5 cents apiece for each mistake of this kind made in my household.
The use of profanity, by contrast, was endorsed so long as it served a rhetorical purpose, and was deployed in a grammatically correct fashion.
I do love the use of indicative punctuation (!, and ?) mid-sentence for effect. And I'm happy to deploy the judicious use of "and" at the start of a sentence. Because it can be startling, I like to open with a subordinate clause that uses a modifier to indicate purpose or condition.
Strunk and White can bite me. See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news.../against-strunk-whites-the-elements-of-style/

 

[C clearly]

Unusual Chinese symbols used instead of an alphabet.

Are they not normal Chinese characters?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Are they not normal Chinese characters?

I'm sure they are totally normal...my point is that they are "Greek to me".
I would much prefer to learn a language using my own alphabet, although I admire those who tackle such unusual languages.

 

[Robo]

Everyone should learn Chinese, which has no grammar/tenses, gender or plurality - what's not to like ;-)

Yes, Thai is like that too.
Though the 5 different tones take a bit of getting used to!

More in Chinese/Mandarin though I think......

 

[TMcA]

Several people have mentioned language learning tools. Unknown even to several Spanish and French language teachers at my local university is the availability of free online language exchanges. I have partnered successfully for several years with French speakers who wished to improve their English.

I made my discovery after finishing a section of the Chemin du Puy. While walking in the university section of Toulouse, I spotted a poster looking for language exchange: French for English. When I returned home I spoke with a French native prof and told him I had seen this poster, etc. He was not very old, maybe mid-thirties. He knew nothing about these exchanges. (Nor did my Spanish teacher when I took basic Spanish in 2016.)

So I went home, searched Google for "language exchanges", and found multiple sites. I picked the one that was free and launched. That was about 6-7 years ago. Now I speak English for a half hour with a Parisian who has become my friend and part of my life. And we also spend the rest of the hour speaking French.

The site I have used is conversationexchange.com

You need to have at least an intermediate level of your target language so that you can try to have a conversation. With my partners, I have so far used Skpe and we agree to use the chat sidebar feature to record new vocabulary and phrases. You can then use the telephone app Quizlet to create a record and a way to test yourself about new vocabulary and useful phrases.

PM me if you need more advice or tips.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

El Puente de la Reina es una estructura tan hermosa

 

[craiger1511]

@Pelegrin True, it would be hard to live there at any other time!

For those studying Spanish on Duolingo, I highly recommend using the Stories feature if you aren't already. In my opinion, Duolingo Stories are one of the best free language resources available, and they're also the only feature really worth using on the app.

Speaking as a professional translator and all-around language geek, the key to learning a language is not translating sentences or studying grammar rules. It's consuming content in the language that's appropriate for your level, also known as "comprehensible input". Immerse yourself as much as possible in Spanish content, both written content and audiovisual, and eventually you will just know intuitively how things should be said because you've heard them so many times before.

@Wendy Werneth @Pelegrin y otros qué tienen un interesante en aprender español ...

Absolutely, Stories on Duolingo are a key component of learning Spanish, and not to be missed! In fact, the Stories feature has been recently enhanced with "read, listen and speak" options. I spend an equal amount of time on Stories as I do on the Skills (lessons). I've also read that Duolingo may/will soon be adding audio lessons to Duolingo Spanish.
Lastly, I'd like to give a big thumbs up to the Duolingo Spanish Podcast. It's extraordinary for those who learning Spanish (perhaps A2 and above); not only are the stories useful for language learning but they're fantastic resource to hear about the people, countries and cultures of the Hispanic world.

 

[Pelegrin]

@Wendy Werneth @Pelegrin y otros qué tienen un interesante en aprender español ...

I am Galician/Spanish so I have more interest in English and other languages. This forum is good for me to practice my English.

 

[Bert45]

I am Galician/Spanish so I have more interest in English and other languages. This forum is good for me to practice my English.

That would be perfect if you were writing on an American forum. (Note the subjunctive as per C clearly) If it were an English forum, you should spell 'practise' when it's a verb and 'practice' when it's a noun. As this is a Spanish forum (though almost everybody writes in English), I don't know what the rule is. [Other words that behave the same way: license/licence; advise/advice (pronounced differently); prophesy/prophecy (pronounced differently).]

 

[wynrich]

That would be perfect if you were writing on an American forum. (Note the subjunctive as per C clearly) If it were an English forum, you should spell 'practise' when it's a verb and 'practice' when it's a noun. As this is a Spanish forum (though almost everybody writes in English), I don't know what the rule is. [Other words that behave the same way: license/licence; advise/advice (pronounced differently); prophesy/prophecy (pronounced differently).]

Oh gosh. I'm an American and thought I knew most of the differences between American and British English. But I didn't know this one. I knew you guys often used S's and C's differently but didn't realize it was to differentiate between noun and verb. Interesting!

 

[Pelegrin]

That would be perfect if you were writing on an American forum. (Note the subjunctive as per C clearly) If it were an English forum, you should spell 'practise' when it's a verb and 'practice' when it's a noun. As this is a Spanish forum (though almost everybody writes in English), I don't know what the rule is. [Other words that behave the same way: license/licence; advise/advice (pronounced differently); prophesy/prophecy (pronounced differently).]

Thank you. I didn't know this rule

 

[trecile]

advise/advice (pronounced differently); prophesy/prophecy (pronounced differently).]

Advise/advice is the same in the US - two different words with different pronunciations; advise is a verb, advice is a noun. I don't know about prophesy/prophecy though, as I've never heard or read prophesy in the present tense. Only prophesied in the past tense.

 

[sunwanderer]

I've learned all my grammar from Wierd Al.

 

[La Brique Jaune]

The site I have used is conversationexchange.com

I use this site myself to improve my spanish, the site look a little old but, it's very simple to use and it's free.

I was on an another site,more recent and more beatiful ,which propose to connect with people. But after 2 months or so you can only search for teachers.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Thank you. I didn't know this rule

Here's another rule for you (well, actually the order of adjectives isn't a rule but a customary usage). I'm a native English speaker and a senior who had a university linguistics course and I never heard of how this works until last year. The order just comes naturally from hearing and reading it in a certain way over time.

Example:
Yes: The big red book ...
No: The red big book ...

Everyone is invited to embarrass me by saying that they ran across this "rule" in their first twenty years of speaking.

Here is a webpage with an introduction:

Adjectives: order

Adjectives: order - English Grammar Today - a reference to written and spoken English grammar and usage - Cambridge Dictionary

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[sunwanderer]

Here's another rule for you (well, actually the order of adjectives isn't a rule but a customary usage). I'm a native English speaker and a senior who had a university linguistics course and I never heard of how this works until last year. The order just comes naturally from hearing and reading it in a certain way over time.

Example:
Yes: The big red book ...
No: The red big book ...

Everyone is invited to embarrass me by saying that they ran across this "rule" in their first twenty years of speaking.

Here is a webpage with an introduction:

Adjectives: order

Adjectives: order - English Grammar Today - a reference to written and spoken English grammar and usage - Cambridge Dictionary

dictionary.cambridge.org

I think the word order could go either way - it depends on whether you're talking about a big "red book" or a red "big book."

 

[SioCamino]

This reminded me of this article - highlights some of the rules that native English slackers aren't usually even aware of "The rule is that multiple adjectives are always ranked accordingly: opinion, size, age, shape, colour, origin, material, purpose." https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ectives-rule-elements-of-eloquence-dictionary

 

[Bert45]

Advise/advice is the same in the US - two different words with different pronunciations; advise is a verb, advice is a noun. I don't know about prophesy/prophecy though, as I've never heard or read prophesy in the present tense. Only prophesied in the past tense.

I had to check that Americans use advise/advice the same way as we Brits do after seeing so many people asking for "advise" on TripAdvisor. I can't say that the were all Americans, however. There's no reason not to use 'prophesy' in the present tense. I was taught to remember advise/advice (which are pronounced differently) so that I would know when to use practise/practice (which are pronounced the same.).

 

[trecile]

I had to check that Americans use advise/advice the same way as we Brits do after seeing so many people asking for "advise" on TripAdvisor. I can't say that the were all Americans, however.

Lots of people don't know how to spell.
Just like many people get lose/loose, to/too, there/their/they're wrong when writing.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to use prophesy in the present tense, just that I think that it's very rare to use it that way. I would use predict instead.

 

[Bert45]

To see 'prophesy' written down, you don't need to be using the present tense. I bet you didn't prophesy that!

 

[JabbaPapa]

It's my favorite bridge on the Camino Frances.

It's a great bridge, though my own favourite is the one at Puente de Órbigo.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It's a great bridge, though my own favourite is the one at Puente de Órbigo.

It's definitely a long and impressive bridge, but it lacks much water.

 

[Kathor1]

It's definitely a long and impressive bridge, but it lacks much water.

The engineers who designed and built the medieval bridge over the river Orbigo knew how to build long bridges but they didn't know how to regulate the river which, at times, would carry enormous volumes of water from the rains and snows in the Cantabria mountains. Also: frequent flooding.

Nowadays, there are several embalses (reservoirs) upstream and floodings are rare.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

An interesting legend or tale connected to the bridge.

The Bridge of Hospital de Órbigo

The 13th-century stone bridge of Hospital de Órbigo is 200 meters long and boasts twenty arches, which now mostly rest on bare ground now that a dam blocks much of the Orbigo River, but the bridge …

caminotimestwo.com

 

[linkster]

Lots of people don't know how to spell.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Look what popped up during my online Spanish lesson

Look what popped up during my morning YouTube viewing (really, it came up at random).

10 Funny Language Learning Commercials

I'm starting a few seconds in.

 

[trecile]

Look what popped up during my morning YouTube viewing (really, it came up at random).

10 Funny Language Learning Commercials

I'm starting a few seconds in.

Those were good.
I went to the beginning and understand why you started the video a few seconds in.

 

[Icacos]

Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
Oscar Wilde

 

[Icacos]

Lots of people don't know how to spell.
Just like many people get lose/loose, to/too, there/their/they're wrong when writing.

There’s also a difference between ‘a part’ and ‘apart.’ Here’s a sign that I came upon in the lobby of an assisted living facility:

Be apart of our social clubs.