Litter; pride in my fellow walkers

[Kanga]

Not strictly Camino but topical in light of discussions about toilet paper and other rubbish on the Camino. We're in the NSW Blue Mountains for the weekend, a magnificent world heritage listed environment, visited by many tourists. Every beauty spot we visited that required walking in and out was pristine, not a single bit of rubbish anywhere, even though rubbish would have to be carried out. Contra those spots accessible by vehicle....

 

[Mary E Davison]

As it should be. Pack it in, pack it out. Yeah!

 

[bearwithme]

Not strictly Camino but topical in light of discussions about toilet paper and other rubbish on the Camino. We're in the NSW Blue Mountains for the weekend, a magnificent world heritage listed environment, visited by many tourists. Every beauty spot we visited that required walking in and out was pristine, not a single bit of rubbish anywhere, even though rubbish would have to be carried out. Contra those spots accessible by vehicle....

So how do you think they motivate folks not to litter?
I volunteer my free time helping out on the Blue Ridge Parkway and we have a terrible time with people that toss litter out of the vehicle windows and leave it along the motor road. I'm looking for ideas as to how this can be minimized.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

My first response is "rocket launcher."
Next is talk to your local government representatives about enforcing existing litter laws, and perhaps putting more "teeth" into them. If you see someone actually throwing litter from their car, get the license-plate number and report them for illegal dumping.
I have thought long and hard about the minds of those who do these things. I think they are childlike, self-absorbed people who´ve still not developed a good sense of object permanence -- on some deep level they believe that once an object leaves their immediate sensory environment, it vanishes entirely.
This is why it is a wonderful idea to introduce objects suddenly into their sensory environment that would get their immediate attention. Objects like incendiary rockets. Or maybe large volumes of trash.
(I am peevish on this subject. A pilgrim left a poo right outside my back gate this week, complete with great wads of toilet paper. Some people need to be severely reprimanded.)

Or maybe teased. If pilgrims policed one another better, I bet this littering and filth would not last long. If you see a fellow pilgrim drop his trash (or his pants) where it does not belong, SAY SOMETHING TO HIM.

 

[Kanga]

My first response is "rocket launcher."
Next is talk to your local government representatives about enforcing existing litter laws, and perhaps putting more "teeth" into them.

If you see a fellow pilgrim drop his trash (or his pants) where it does not belong, SAY SOMETHING TO HIM.

I think a medieval style punishment would be fitting. Set aside a public place suitable for pelting miscreants with their own rubbish. In stocks.

In Oz the current trend is "education". We do get a reduction in general litter following expensive media campaigns.

There are always some humans without internalised ethics. For them only the threat of discovery and dire punishment or public shame seems to work.

I agree - if you see something, say something. I've had gentle arguments with perfectly lovely fellow female walkers about toilet paper ("but we were told it was OK because it breaks down and biodegrades"). My hope is they will think about and take on board the alternatives.

 

[Kanga]

So how do you think they motivate folks not to litter?
I volunteer my free time helping out on the Blue Ridge Parkway and we have a terrible time with people that toss litter out of the vehicle windows and leave it along the motor road. I'm looking for ideas as to how this can be minimized.

A "Dial-in-a-dumper" hotline posted on notice boards at frequent intervals together with police cars giving chase and issuing on-the-spot fines?

Heavy fines and imprisonment worked in Singapore!

 

[MichaelB10398]

Two years ago I was at Jebel Hafeet outside of Al Ain, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. It is the top of a rock mountain with great views of the city of Al Ain and into Oman. At the top of the mountain is a large parking lot where people can park and then get out of their cars and walk to look out points. There is a great deal of fencing around the parking lot because of the sheer drop off. As we drive up and park our car right at the fence line and put our windows down to enjoy the fresh air another car pulls up and a young fellow gets out of his car and walks up to the fence. Looks out and then promptly tosses a plastic bottle over the fence. My friend, a medical doctor with a kind demeanor...usually, immediately yells at the fellow for being so stupid as to throw a plastic bottle over the fence. "Hey, who do you think is going to pick that up?" "Have you lost your friggin mind!?!" The Indian fellow sheeplishly spent the next five minutes retrieving the bottle and throwing it in the trash can that was five meters away.

There is often a cultural aspect to littering. What we all need to do is create that cultural influence on the Camino. It is not fun, but spend time picking up each day - a small bag. When we see someone leaving litter behind, tell them to pick it up; to respect the Camino and to leave it cleaner than when we found it.

This is a hot button topic for me and I appreciated the example of my friend to speak up. We can do it with more tact, but we all need to be speak up more often or it will never change.

 

[mspath]

Whatever happened to "leave only footprints" as a walker's motto ?

MM

Addendum: This simple but powerful ecological statement is widely attributed to
Chief Seattle, a Native American, who was a 19th c ancestral leader of the Suquamish Tribe
in what is now the American state of Washington where a major city is named in his honor. During the mid 20th century such phrases became slogans for the ecological movement. However recent research has shown than Chief Seattle never spoke or wrote these words.

 

[Laliibeans]

The Overland in Oz is now encouraging people to walk with a long piece of pvc pipe which they can transport all their toilet waste out in (paper and otherwise) and it doubles as a walking pole! We saw a few people doing that when we walked and it was great, because from a distance the place looks pristine, but up close every tree, rock and slight ditch is filled with toilet paper. It's nice that some action to educate is being taken.

I wonder if it is anything like the trend to leave stickers at abandoned buildings. Social media has a lot to answer for in the respect, the constant need to show where you are and what you are doing, to validate yourself, seems to have made people look at the world as disposable and not their responsibility. Only this week someone broke off part of the Colosseum AND a fresco in Pompeii was chipped away. Everything is becoming very "me" centric but I think education, and as others said, public shaming, are the best tactics. People don't like getting caught so they need to be aware that they have been.

 

[Metropolly]

A pilgrim left a poo right outside my back gate this week

Oh Rebekah, that's awful! And so early in the season. Whoever did that is likely still somewhere on the Camino. In a karmic universe, what awaits that pilgrim's return to their own home?

 

[StuartM]

One of the most bizarre things that happens round here is by dog walkers. They got to the effort of bagging up the dog poo then either leave the bag on the ground or, becoming increasingly common, hang it from a tree branch or shove it in a hedge or bush. I really dont understand the mentality of some people.

 

[Metropolly]

Quite often when I'm out walking - particularly on the Camino or other long-distance path - if I happen to have an empty plastic bag with me, I collect any litter I see on the trail. If you do this you always end up with a huge bag full of rusting drink cans, sandwich packs, chocolate wrappers etc. Towards Santiago last year I was infuriated to find a pilgrim had dumped the remains of a picnic by the side of the road inside a surplus equipment bag they no longer felt like carrying. However, there's to a limit to what I'll pick up - and other people's toilet waste is it. Perhaps they need to be toilet trained like puppies, by rubbing their noses in it?

 

[Cambridge Pilgrim]

On the subject of human waste...

...can your average adult human not be organised enough to visit the bathroom and do their "solid" business before they leave for the day or, if they get the urge whilst out, not hold on until they get to a toilet?

OK it's different for urinating (more difficult to hold on) and if we're drinking the amount of fluid we should be doing then being away from the toilet when the urge strikes is something I could imagine happens a lot. No excuse for leaving toilet paper behind though.

Occasionally we all get ill, and nothing on this planet is going to keep things in - but in that case - just don't go anywhere that doesn't have a toilet more that a few yards away!!!

Utterly disgusting, (mostly) needless and inconsiderate; the only "side" of the Camino I am not looking forward to.

 

[mspath]

13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
14 For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.

Deuteronomy 23: 13, 14

 

[Anniesantiago]

13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:
14 For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.

Deuteronomy 23: 13, 14

I'm going to post that on facebook!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

mspath, that is wonderful! We can rest assured that no wandering Israelites will leave behind a mess!

 

[grayland]

Whatever happened to "leave only footprints" as a walker's motto ?

MM

Addendum: This simple but powerful ecological statement is widely attributed to
Chief Seattle, a Native American,...SNIP.....
in what is now the American state of Washington where the state capital is named in his honor. .

Actually, Olympia is the state capital of Washington.

 

[mspath]

Actually, Olympia is the state capital of Washington.

Whoops! I will edit the addendum to be correct.