Lightweight or Midweight Fleece

[ttbtinkerbell]

I hope I can get some advice in selecting the proper fleece for me. I am 5'5 and 103 lbs. I often get cold easy. I will be walking the Camino Frances next year, beginning around May 25th. I have a merino longsleeved quarter zip shirt that can be worn as a base layer. I also have the Marmot Precip jacket that can be worn as outter layer if needed. Would I need a lightweight or midweight fleece? I worry about being cold so I have been thinking of using the midweight, but I am afraid it may be overkill at the same time. Also because I am so small, weight MATTERS. The lighter I can get things the better. Thanks for the advice in advance.

 

[wayfarer]

Welcome to the forum. I would think at that time of year the light one would do fine.
Happy Planning and Buen Camino.

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

Welcome to the forum. I would think at that time of year the light one would do fine.
Happy Planning and Buen Camino.

Thanks. This is my first Camino, and actually the first time in Europe, so I have no idea how the weather works out there. I have read countless hours of topics on this forum and actually have a really good gear list. This is the one item I just can't decide on. Haha.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

If you are generally cold, take the midweight. It will become warmer in May, but higher elevations will still be quite cool.

 

[Piccata]

Don't take either one! Take a "puff" jacket, with the new artificial insulation that continues to provide insulation even when wet (unlike down). Many different companies make them, some with wind and water resistant properties. They almost all weigh less than almost all fleece jackets, and pack down smaller. Probably the most famous and most expensive is the Patagonia Nano puff; I was very happy with my REI version which cost half as much.

 

[Kitsambler]

To save weight, how about a vest? Either the mid-weight fleece or the nano-puff down. It will be 20 degrees warmer in the day than the night.

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

Don't take either one! Take a "puff" jacket, with the new artificial insulation that continues to provide insulation even when wet (unlike down). Many different companies make them, some with wind and water resistant properties. They almost all weigh less than almost all fleece jackets, and pack down smaller. Probably the most famous and most expensive is the Patagonia Nano puff; I was very happy with my REI version which cost half as much.

Do you find that the puff jackets are strong enough for the wear and tear of the camino. I haven't ever owned anything like it, but I have heard that they were really fragile articles.

 

[Tia Valeria]

I took a light weight (300gm) and a mid weight (400gm) fleece. The latter was reversible for extra warmth. I feel the cold and the combination was the most versatile for me. No other jacket but a poncho for rain wear.

 

[Piccata]

Do you find that the puff jackets are strong enough for the wear and tear of the camino. I haven't ever owned anything like it, but I have heard that they were really fragile articles.

Just went to have a look at my 3 year old jacket. It looks almost like it did when it was new. I do remember that when I first got it I got a snag in some of the quilting stitching, but I just pulled on the thread further down the stitching line to distribute some of the extra thread and then pushed the leftover thread into the jacket. I've renewed the DWR finish once. I have washed and dried it countless times. So yes, I think they are sturdy enough. Remember, most Camino paths are not hiking in wilderness where you are pushing through underbrush and snagging things as you go.

 

[Arn]

If you consider the time of year where the temps seldom go below 40F/4.4C a light weight fleece/puff will do you well in addition to a light wind breaker.
When you start out in the AM, put your hand out: is it wet? Is your wet hand also cold. Put on the fleece and the wind breaker. As you walk along, several things will happen:
1. The rain will stop, but it's still cold...keep on the fleece, but open the vents on your wind breaker.
2. Your body will begin to warm up..but it's still raining...take off fleece...close vents on wind breaker.
3. It has stopped raining, but still cold...take off wind breaker and keep on fleece
4. By now you are ready for breakfast, or an early break. If you took off your wind breaker...put it back on to retain body heat.
5. If your early break includes: cafe con leche, hot tea...open vents on wind breaker. If a cerveza...well, see how you feel.
Now, go back to my original comment.
Buen Camino,

Arn

 

[whariwharangi]

COLD means Clean Overlapping Layers of Dry clothes.

As the saying goes ... if your feet are cold put on a hat. You lose most of your heat from your head so bring a tuque.

A scarf draped over the shoulders adds a lot of warmth (Layer) under a jacket.

As for fleece ... during the day you will generate a lot of heat so a 100 weight fleece might be best ... you want to avoid sweating into your clothing ... cuz then its not Dry or Clean anymore.

At night its cooler particularly at the higher elevations so something more is needed. I would suggest carrying a second fleece, either 100 or 200 weight, (or a down jacket) to wear over the other.

Keep in mind you don't want to buy a lot of expensive gear for which you might not have a use for after the camino.

If you need more warm clothes you can buy good gear in the larger towns. So you might want to avoid buying gear now and worst case is you spend a couple of uncomfortable evenings.

 

[t2andreo]

Polar fleece, at least the original and IMHO best "Polar Tech" brand is ranked and marketed in three weights 100 (lightweight), 200 (middleweight) and 300 (heavyweight). In addition, you need to be aware of styles that are intended to be worn as form-fitting under layers, and looser cut styles intended for layering. The form-fitting underlayer styles are usually made in 100 weight and not intended as an outer layer.

In both my May Camino Frances treks (2013, 2014) I started with a grade 200 mid weight, long-sleeved fleece worn under a Gore Tex rain parka with pit zips. I continue to recommend this as the "standard grade" for outerwear.

However, on BOTH Caminos I was compelled to buy ANOTHER lightweight (100 level) form-fitting fleece to wear under the original looser fitting fleece. In BOTH cases it was not because it was cold, ambient temperature-wise. Brisk walking always warms one up. The reason was that I was soaking wet, either from perspiration or incessant rain. The reason is unimportant. That fact is that I needed the added layer to prevent getting too chilled.

The GOOD news is that polar fleece insulates very well even when wet. The BAD news is that you MUST keep your core temperature up. Remember, warm and wet is good. Cold and wet is very bad.

This is especially true if you stay in albergues and are exposed to inadequate or nonexistent heating, dampness, drafts, and a few dozen other folks, any one of who will likely have a respiratory infection spread by coughing or sneezing. I think you get the point.

On my first Camino, I bought an overly expensive body-hugging fleece jacket in Pamplona as I arrived totally chilled to the bone and pre-hypothermic at the end of April. I had walked in the constant rain and mud for two straight days, Roncesvalles to Pamplona. The added layer solved the core temperature problem. But, the North Face body layer fleece cost me € 149 - ouch!

There were no good choices on offer that day. The store was closing in 10 minutes on a Saturday evening and would be closed the next day. The selection was limited, and I felt like merde. So, it was buy the fleece or get bronchitis, or worse. That night I slept in my layered fleece, in my sleeping bag, under a woolen blanket in a heated hostal room in Pamplona. The next morning I felt much better...

On my second Camino this year, I made it as far as Sarria before the incessant rain and chilly morning temperatures compelled me to buy yet another form-fitting fleece layer. I had not brought the one I splurged on the previous year... The good news is that I was able to find one made by Trang World, in my size and in a color I liked at the Peregrinoteca shop on the corner, before the stairs in Sarria. It cost me € 50, on sale from € 99. I still have it. So, lessons learned and no harm done.

In 2015, discretion will be the better part of valor. The 2014 fleece will be stuffed in a compression bag and will go into the bottom of my rucksack, next to the 600 gm Altus sleeping bag that I very rarely use...

I hope this helps...

 

[Anniesantiago]

I would take the lightweight fleece and a windbreaker/rain jacket.
At that time of year, you're more likely to experience heat than cold on MOST of the Camino.

 

[Arn]

Whariwharangi mentioned in his well written reply:
As the saying goes ... if your feet are cold put on a hat. You lose most of your heat from your head so bring a tuque.

It's a common misconception that you lose most of your heat through the head. Stands to reason...heat rises, your chrome dome is the top of your head, therefore..,
Actually, most body heat is lost in the arm pits and the groin. Try this experiment: put your hands in ice water until the cold is uncomfortable, then place your hands on top of your head.
Repeat, though this time put the newly frozen hands under your armpits, or if really adventurous into your crotch. Now, where do your hands return to a comfortable place, hands on your head/crotch or head?
During cold water rescue training we had many service men, EMTs, survivalists, etc in the course. Most believed the head very important to survival. Ten minutes in 48 degree water made them believers and their hands quickly slipped downward.
The most important thing you can do to survive is to protect your core area..from your neck down to your waist. Layering is very important in this area. Cotton KILLs... Once cotton gets wet, your body heat can't dry it. Even in 80 degrees, simple evaporation, encouraged by wind stream, can cause hypothermia in 10-20 minutes, depending on your body mass.
Way to much info here.
Buen "baby it's cold outside" Camino,
Arm

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

Thanks for all the good advice. Arn, I already know about my warm spots. I freeze A LOT. It will be summer and I am sitting in an air-conditioned room, and my hands will be tucked between my legs near crotch or under my arms. That is a default position for me since my extremities are often cold. I do have gloves for the trip so I hope this isn't going to be a big issue.

T2andreo, did you have a rain jacket when you fleece was getting wet? I do have a rain jacket which I feel should be fine in the summer. I know there are poncho's but I just do not like them for some reason. I also like the fact that I can layer my Marmot rain jacket over my fleece or puff jacket for added warmth. Same goes for my rain pants.

I am still trying to decide on a fleece or puff. It seems to me that one great option is to buy two lightweight fleeces, and just layer. Weight is a little bit of an issue so I feel that maybe a puff jacket might be better, but much much more expensive.

I am possibly going to buy either the lightweight or midweight fleece and wear it all winter to get a good feel of how it will work. The weather here regularly gets down to the low 40's in winter. I would really love to buy a puff jacket, but I will just have to keep an eye out, and try to catch a good sale.

 

[Arn]

I may have missed your start date...please, once again

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

I start at the end of May, so I will most walk through June and the beginning of July.

 

[Mark Lee]

I think that by late May all the way through July you will not need anything more than a lightweight fleece and that Marmot jacket. That combined with a good synthetic, runners type shirt as a base layer will keep you warm. Both my Caminos ran through the months of June through August. A lightweight fleece and a breathable rain jacket was all I needed. It gets kinda chilly at night and first thing in the morning. I say chilly, not cold. To me cold is in the 30's (F). It never got that cold. If you wear a jacket in the morning when you start walking, you quickly warm up and are taking it off. You don't want to haul gear you don't need. I would say if you have some concerns about being a little chilly, bring a fleece beanie to wear on your head when needed. You lose a lot of body heat via the head. The fleece beanie is warm and weight negligible. Life on the Camino is simple. Your gear should be too. I see a lot of posters on this forum over-complicate things (yikes...no offense to anybody, please) especially when it comes to gear/equipment. The Camino is simply a walk through mostly country type urban towns. Not a wilderness trek. Honestly you could buy everything you need to do it at Wal-Mart.
You really don't need to go out and buy a puff jacket. Spend that money instead on the good vino and food on the Camino.

 

[t2andreo]

Whariwharangi mentioned in his well written reply:
As the saying goes ... if your feet are cold put on a hat. You lose most of your heat from your head so bring a tuque.

It's a common misconception that you lose most of your heat through the head. Stands to reason...heat rises, your chrome dome is the top of your head, therefore..,
Actually, most body heat is lost in the arm pits and the groin. Try this experiment: put your hands in ice water until the cold is uncomfortable, then place your hands on top of your head.
Repeat, though this time put the newly frozen hands under your armpits, or if really adventurous into your crotch. Now, where do your hands return to a comfortable place, hands on your head/crotch or head?
During cold water rescue training we had many service men, EMTs, survivalists, etc in the course. Most believed the head very important to survival. Ten minutes in 48 degree water made them believers and their hands quickly slipped downward.
The most important thing you can do to survive is to protect your core area..from your neck down to your waist. Layering is very important in this area. Cotton KILLs... Once cotton gets wet, your body heat can't dry it. Even in 80 degrees, simple evaporation, encouraged by wind stream, can cause hypothermia in 10-20 minutes, depending on your body mass.
Way to much info here.
Buen "baby it's cold outside" Camino,
Arm

Arn nailed it in his thoughtful reply. I have had cold weather survival training several times. The bit about heat loss through the head, feet and hands is primarily to get folks to cover up because this is where frostbite hits first, at the end of your circulatory system. However, the frostbite risk only comes into play at around freezing temperatures (0 C or 32 F). But, hypothermia can strike even in single digit, above freezing, Celsius and 40-60 degree Fahrenheit temperatures.

However, failure to maintain your core / torso temperature within acceptable norms causes hypothermia to set in, regardless of how warm your extremities are. So, one MUST wear proper foot, hand and head gear to protect the extremities if it is very cold, and to feel comfortable. But you must wear layered insulation over your chest to keep your body furnace functioning within acceptable norms.

It is like I said above, warm and wet is okay. But cold and wet is very bad.

 

[t2andreo]

Thanks for all the good advice. Arn, I already know about my warm spots. I freeze A LOT. It will be summer and I am sitting in an air-conditioned room, and my hands will be tucked between my legs near crotch or under my arms. That is a default position for me since my extremities are often cold. I do have gloves for the trip so I hope this isn't going to be a big issue.

T2andreo, did you have a rain jacket when you fleece was getting wet? I do have a rain jacket which I feel should be fine in the summer. I know there are poncho's but I just do not like them for some reason. I also like the fact that I can layer my Marmot rain jacket over my fleece or puff jacket for added warmth. Same goes for my rain pants.

I am still trying to decide on a fleece or puff. It seems to me that one great option is to buy two lightweight fleeces, and just layer. Weight is a little bit of an issue so I feel that maybe a puff jacket might be better, but much much more expensive.

I am possibly going to buy either the lightweight or midweight fleece and wear it all winter to get a good feel of how it will work. The weather here regularly gets down to the low 40's in winter. I would really love to buy a puff jacket, but I will just have to keep an eye out, and try to catch a good sale.

Yes, I had BOTH a Gore Tex waterproof rain parka AND a poncho on both my Camnos. It is not the rain that necessarily gets in, but the condensation from your perspiration that remains trapped. It does not smell. It is just wet sweat.

Having armpit zippers helps to mitigate the accumulation of sweat underneath, but it is not a cure-all. Still the zips are a critical method to regulate your temperature regardless of whether it is raining at the moment or not, and I highly recommend paying extra to get them. If it is not raining, and you are in Galicia, it will start raining shortly.

If you are wearing multiple insulation layers and a raincoat or poncho, even if NO RAIN gets in, you will be soaked through when you stop walking and remove your outer layers. THAT is why we all wear synthetic, rapid drying fabrics.

Also, I endorse multiple fleece layers, one in 100 weight and the other in 200 weight. Either or both can be worn under your rain gear for insulation, plus, you have the added benefit of being able to have "fashion" choices when in a city. Don't forget to buy rain gear a size larger than normal so the fleece layers fit underneath.

I recommend that the outer fleece layer be a full zip up. The under, form-fitting layer, could be a partial zip pullover. The "puff" vest, jacket, or pullover may pack very small and may not weigh much, but I believe they are more delicate and take longer to dry when completely wet. Moreover, you can wear fleece even if only partially dry. It is warm even if damp or wet.

I hope this helps.

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

Alright, so I found a Patagonia Nano puff online on Ebay. It was listed as $75 dollars, (retail $170). I put a bid on it thinking that I would be outbid eventually. I got off work today and found out my bid was the highest and I won it. Now that I won it, I am starting to think I could just get away with a fleece. Maybe both will do me good, a lightweight fleece and a Nano Puff. Hm. I worry about the weight as I am trying to keep my bag at 10lbs. I will have to sleep on this one. Thanks again everyone for your help.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Can I suggest that you put both in your pack, as if walking on a hot day, and try walking with it. If it is OK then take both. If you have to buy a second fleece in Spain it might make your pack weigh more than with your current combination , which is what happened to us. You have plenty of time to practise with your pack. We usually pack ours as if for a hot day so that all our cold weather gear is in, then weigh it. If we need to wear the cold weather stuff we can add other items to the pack to bring it up to weight. If your concern is weight on your back this works well. If you are more concerned about weight overall on your hips and knees then you need to work out a compromise for practise walks.
To keep weight down we carried light weight sleeping bags and no liners. If you feel the cold like I do then a liner only IMO is not sufficient whatever some folk say. Next year we will be leaving the bags behind to lighten the load but using private accomodation only, where blankets are available.

 

[Mark Lee]

Alright, so I found a Patagonia Nano puff online on Ebay. It was listed as $75 dollars, (retail $170). I put a bid on it thinking that I would be outbid eventually. I got off work today and found out my bid was the highest and I won it. Now that I won it, I am starting to think I could just get away with a fleece. Maybe both will do me good, a lightweight fleece and a Nano Puff. Hm. I worry about the weight as I am trying to keep my bag at 10lbs. I will have to sleep on this one. Thanks again everyone for your help.

You won't need two pieces of cooler weather gear for a summertime Camino. Ditch the puff thing and keep your pack light.
If you have a lot of concerns about the weather, you can research it a bit on the Weather Underground web site. It's a standard web based weather site, but you can also look-up past weather in different places. The link I've included is an example. It's for Leon, Spain (about halfway on the CF, but you can look-up any city) this past June. As you can see, it just ain't that cold.
You don't have to worry about "base layers" and all that other stuff. It's not a trek up Everest. I wore shorts and a running shirt every day (literally every day) on both Caminos, and if it got cooler I put on my light fleece zip-up jacket in the morning or evening. That's all I needed.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/LELN/2014/6/6/MonthlyHistory.html

 

[Tia Valeria]

Mark,
June/July and July/August are different temperature wise to May/June particularly at the higher altitudes for anyone who feels the cold. Spanish houses are also built generally to keep cool so can be chilly even if the temperature outside is higher. I need base layers and the like - the only time I didn't was in September some years ago when I felt the cold less anyway.

My own choice is a thin vest base layer for evening under long sleeved walking shirts which can keep the sun off if need be and also keep my arms warm when it is chilly, long zip off trousers (which I have never unzipped), and usually the light and mid weight fleeces. Walking the Inglés next year we are going to risk going with just the mid-fleeces which can be reversed for extra warmth. However our experience of this route is that it is warmer than the others even if wetter.....

After the experience a few years ago I said I would never be cold again......

 

[katdavis]

I walked from the beginning of May last year into June and it was an exceptionally cold spring (snow / hail etc) but what got me through was having my icebreaker sleeves, http://eu2.icebreaker.com/en/mens-g...rs/IB6B41.html?dwvar_IB6B41_color=001&cts=001

I used these with short sleeve shirts and if it was a cold morning then I would have a lightweight fleece on top. As it got warmer I didn't use the fleece so much, just the sleeves and short sleeve shirts. The good thing about the sleeves is that when you start to get hot you can just roll them down your arm and keep them around your wrists rather have to stop and take off / put on a fleece.

You'll probably find at that time of year you'll still want to wear a fleece in the evenings but just a lightweight one and if it is exceptionally cold, have it over the top of sleeves, a shirt and then your rain/wind jacket on top. This has worked for me on all of my walks.

Icebreaker sleeves
Lightweight fleece
Rain jacket
Buff

You can see my blog here: followingthearrows.wordpress.com

Buen Camino!
Kat

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

What a great recommendation katdavis. I wear armwarmers at home. Because I often get cold, I carry a pair in my purse during summer time. I don't know why I didn't think to use those to layer up! I will definitely try those out with a lightweight fleece and see how it works for me during my winter.

Tia Valera, I have a summer sleeping bag that weighs around 13oz (369 grams). The summer sleeping bag is nice because it opens up into a blanket. I did buy a silk liner (3.8 oz or 107.7 grams) in case I am just too hot in the evenings and don't want my bag at all. This was the lightest weight bag I could find that would not completely break the bank.

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

I hear the buff's are pretty popular and I am looking to buy one. Does everyone prefer the full sized buff, or in the summer time is the half size better? Not sure if the full is going to be too much during June.

 

[Tia Valeria]

I just used a silk type scarf (10gms) and my gloves are silk (another 10gms). Like your bag weight which combined with the liner is still less than our bags were . More choce, less weight and as much as possible for things to do more than one job. (Eg dress/nightdress; lng johns+vest/pyjamas).
Buen Camino

 

[Arn]

I will have to sleep on this one.

ttbtinkerbell, the puff makes a great pillow
As I go back and reread much of this thread, it amazes me (mod) that just as it appears the thread is going off target into PM, high fashion, emergency procedures, budget wise-land...in total...the combination of serious, tongue-in-cheek and practical replies WORKS.
It's a testament to the width and breath of the knowledge and desire to share that knowledge that makes the Forum what it's become in the last decade.

 

[ttbtinkerbell]

ttbtinkerbell, the puff makes a great pillow

I have purchased the Nano puff and will be using at home over the winter to see how well it holds up with some arm warmers. I like that it is lighter than the lightweight fleece. But I will try both nano and fleece to figure out what will work for me

 

[Arn]

Bought a puff two days ago. Silver on the outside (for reflection ) an a nice blue inside. I've worn it the last two days in different conditions to see how it responds: cool...nice retention. Drizzle, light rain still warm, but wouldn't trust in a down poor...thus the windbreaker. And, as a pillow it remains soft and cool.