Ley Lines

[shell]

Hi all, I have reading about ley/energy lines on the Camino. Does anyone any information on them? How they work? Or if they do actually exist?

Shell

 

[WolverineDG]

Hello again Shell!

I haven't heard about ley lines along the Camino, but I have seen them at work in England in Avesbury. The tour guide had us hold dowsing rods in front of us & walk towards him. Whenever someone hit the ley line, the rods either moved outwards or inwards. Other than that, I don't recall feeling anything differently, but then we didn't spend more than an hour there.

Have you checked out any metaphysical sites or bookstores for more information on this? That's where I'd try next.

dg

 

[ivar]

I had to look this one up, I have never heard of Ley Lines. If anyone else need a refresher, here is what Wikipedia says:

Ley lines refer to hypothetical alignments of a number of places of geographical interest, such as ancient monuments and megaliths. Their existence was suggested in 1921 by the amateur archaeologist Alfred Watkins, whose book The Old Straight Track brought the alignments to the attention of the wider public.

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_line

Ivar

 

[gholsong]

Well...

Shirley McClain is into them, so that might clue you to how legitimate they are, scientifically.


Grant

 

[Deborah]

Judging truth

I don't think you can judge truth by who believes in what or by what you can (or can't) see and touch and feel. And I certainly don't put my faith in "science." Science is often one step behind faith. All of the "scientific discoveries" began with people who had crazy, even heretical ideas. It was just a matter of time before they were proven.

Science once taught that the earth was flat.

The Catholic Church believed the EARTH was the center of the Universe... and those who thought otherwise were labeled heretics and promptly destroyed.

The Catholic Church teaches in an Immaculate Conception, which certainly is not scientific.

It also teaches that a man rose from the dead - which I don't think science supports.

Nor does science support the belief that we are literally eating the body and blood of Christ when we take the host and wine.

The pharmaceutical companies who are pushing dangerous drugs like Vioxx and Celebrex are underwritten by "science," and I sure as heck don't trust them.

George Bush is a Christian... I don't agree with his politics or his war, but that doesn't make Christianity unreal.

I can't see microwaves, but they exist.

So do the invisible "waves" that run cellphones and will eventually be shown to cause brain tumors, like the "waves" that caused testicular cancer in policeman who put their radar between their legs during rests from watching speeders or the brain tumors behind the ear they held their radar up against.

I can't see anything wrong with a hunk of uranium, but it will kill me.

I can't see the Holy Spirit, but I believe...

 

[WolverineDG]

I don't recall Shell saying that everyone had to believe in ley lines or that she believed in them. She was simply asking for information about them along the Camino. Being of an open, curious mind myself, I find that idea intriguing. Can I prove they exist? Can I prove that it was ley lines that made the dowsing rods in my hands move at Avesbury? No, but I've had enough weird things happen to me in my life that cannot be explained scientifically & so I'm open to that possibility.

If studying about ley lines along the Camino adds something to Shell's experience on the pilgrimage, I say good for her!

dg

 

[karanarttravel]

Yes, there are ley lines all over the world. They are simply intersecting lines of energy (looks alot like latitude and longitude lines over a globe), and many ancient sites, from the Avebury menhir to Macchu Picchu, to the Vatican and the Dome of the Rock fall on very strong multiple intersections. It's not about believing in them or not believing in them, but it's just more open- minded to realize that people in this world believe in them, and so they can exist. Everyone has his or her own reality, and one must accept this to get along with fellow humans. As for the Camino and its ley line connection, it mimics the Milky Way,and it always amazes me how it was created so perfectly--by both 'pagans' (ancient Romans), and 'Christians' (Medieval pilgrims). Dowsing rods are an excellent way to feel an energy force which your body may not already feel. There is also a theory/belief that since the human body is energy based, when an open, and aware person passes over strong ley lines, they feel a 'connection'--it can stop them in their tracks. Some people call it a 'religious experience'...it's all just semantics, isn't it? Enjoy researching ley lines, and keep us updated on specific strong locations on the Camino, please!

 

[WolverineDG]

Now my curiousity is really piqued! In what ways does the Camino mimic the Milky Way? It wouldn't be the first time something on Earth mimicked something in the heavens. Supposedly the 3 Great Pyramids represent Orion's belt & a tribe in Africa built a city with structures that also mimic that particular constellation.

dg

 

[sillydoll]

Debbie - I can see that you are a true Deborah.

Did you know that your name has two meanings taken from the bible. One is Deborah the nurse and the other is Deborah the warrior!

In Hebrew, Deborah means 'Bee'. In Lower Egypt, the bee was the symbol of kingship and Deborah had honey for her friends and a sting for her enemies! She was a leader of people and a warrior judge.

 

[Deborah]

The Bee

:::chuckling::: at Sillydoll
Gee.... was I that passionate in my reply? roflol!

Yes, I know about my name and personality. Funny how our names often mirror our personalities, or vice versa, isn't it?

I've studied Hebrew leltters for about 7 years, and I'm always amazed at the power of names and words.

God created the Universe with "The Word" and it's interesting how we often reflect "the word" of our names. Maybe that's why parents ponder so seriously the names of their children before choosing them. To name a thing MAKES it that thing. To name a thing is to create it.

Whether you say over and over to a child, "You are stupid" or "You are so brilliant!" your words have incredible power to create that belief and then reality in the child. This is because energy entrains to the strongest vibration and in this case (most of the time) the adult's energy is stronger.

A good physical example of this is when you put a guitar and a piano together and you hit the G on the piano strongly. The G on the guitar will begin to vibrate.

I think this may illustrate why "ley lines" "are found" along Sacred Sites. I belief that is backwards. I don't think that it's the ley lines that place themselves. I think that humans are drawn to these strongly vibrating energies which already exist in the earth's crust and place the Temples or Cathedrals along them. And it's very possible that these energies are strongly influenced by the gravitational pull of stars in the heavens.
Much in the same way that the earth's WATER tides are scientifically shown to be created by the MOON's gravitational pull. You see what I'm saying? There is water or fluid all under the earth's crust. We just can't see it. So the gravitational pull of the Milky Way or other strong constellations pull that water UP and some people who are sensitive to this FEEL it...

I personally believe that in the beginning, it was probably women (Goddess worshippers) who created these sacred sites, if for no other reason than women tend to be more sensitive to those subtle energies, even spiritually. Go to any church and count how many women and how many men. Then, as religions evolved, the Jews, Christians, Moslems, Hindus just built their churches and temples over the top of the old temples. That has pretty well been established 'scientifically.'

The people will continue to come to these places because they FEEL the energies.

I once read a story illustrating this about a sacred tree in Australia where manhood rites had been performed since before recorded history. Rich people purchased the land and built a grocery store there, cutting down the sacred tree. And now, in the middle of the green bean aisle, aborigines men still sit in a circle to perform the manhood songs.

It wasn't the TREE.. .it was the PlACE.

Many "primitive" people believe that if you know a person's true name you have power over them.

Anyway, this posting is getting too long. I love these things. I'm sorry if my passion showed. I believe strongly in things unseen by science and I just don't like the idea of making fun of anyone's beliefs, whether I agree with them or not, especially if they are not harming another. I find beliefs fascinating!

 

[sillydoll]

The name of old Jimmy in Sant'Iago is also interesting. It is derived from Jacob. And if to name a thing is to create it then the son of thunder is a good example because Jacob is what we are called when we are in exile and persecuted for the word.
Jacob stands for "Yud Akaiv" The G-dly soul, which is represented by the letter yud, is in the level of akaiv (the heel).
Hence you get all the variations: Jacobus - via Late Latin Jac(o)mus, which also gave rise to Jaime, the regular form of the name in Spanish (as opposed to the learned Jacobo) Iago, Diego, Jaimez, Jacques, Jacquemar, Giacomi, Jaume, and so forth.

Our 'hospitalero's" name is that of a Norse God! What say you to that Debbie?

 

[Deborah]

I'm not surprised at all, and I think it's fascinating!

If you look at Jacob phonetically, it can be Yud, Kaph, Beth
Mine, Thine, House

or even Yud, ALEPH, Kaph, Beth...
Mine Spirit, thy house

Open Hand, Spirit or Breath of God, Closed Hand, House

My Spirit is in enclosed in your House
Or I give my Spirit to dwell in your body.

And it just hit me that you could also phonetically spell Jacob

Yud, Aleph, Qoph, Beth which would put a whole different slant on it.

Open Hand, Spirit of God, Back of Head, House

Perhaps God is saying that his Spirit dwells in the medulla oblongata, the primitive brain? Hmmm.... I have to think on this.

If you look at the values of the letters, Jacob spelled with a Kaph equals 33... interesting because 6 is the number of Tiphareth/Beauty/Christ on the Tree. It is also Vav, which means Nail.

If you look at Jacob spelled with a Qoph, then it equals 113 or 5, which is Heh, and means window. Five on the tree is Geburah/Strength and this sephira is on the Pillar of Justice.

Wow... you can just go on and on and on...

the "heel" is certainly pertinent to a pilgrimage, isn't it?

 

[Peter Robins]

Milky Way

In what ways does the Camino mimic the Milky Way?

the Camino Frances is often called the Milky Way/Via Lactea/Voie Lactée/Milchstrasse/etc. The Milky Way in the skies was supposed to show the E/W way to the shrine of St James. The Ancient Greeks had a similar belief: that the Milky Way was the road to the palace of Zeus. It's quite likely the medieval church appropriated the idea to Santiago. 'Milky Way' is a loan-translation of Greek 'galaxias', from 'gala' = 'milk'; 'galaxy' of course comes from the same root.

I find it interesting that modern science has shown that migrating birds use the Milky Way for navigation. It's not impossible that ancient migratory people did likewise.

 

[Martin0642]

Personally I'd like to hear more about the ley lines as well. I'm extremely skeptical of the idea for many reasons - but I still like the idea. I'm certainly open to more spiritual explanations for natural phenomenon. I'm just not convinced that ley lines fall into that category.

As for the Milky Way thing - surely most of the western hemisphere follows it at certain times of the year?

I'd like to hear peoples views on all this...

 

[Peter Robins]

As for the Milky Way thing - surely most of the western hemisphere follows it at certain times of the year?

the stars appear to rise in the east and set in the west, so, by journeying from east to west, you are 'following' the stars. The Milky Way looks like a road through the sky, so you are walking along the Milky Way. However, as with most of the medieval world-view, this is primarily symbolic; I don't think you can link it too firmly with any particular line on the ground. Quite apart from anything else, roads shift over time, for example, when a bridge or new town is built. There are many well-documented instances of this on the Camino Frances.

 

[WolverineDG]

Peter, thank you for your explanations. It does make sense that people would have used the Milky Way for navigation in ancient times. We still use the North Star & Southern Cross today. Also, many Christian holy sites & traditions are really sites & traditions followed by the pagans that have been given Christian connotations.

 

[shell]

Hi, thank you all so much for your responses to the Ley line questions. I have searched high and low and in general I am none the wiser. Do they exist? Where are they located on the Camino? I really don’t know. However, if anyone wants an explanation as to what Ley lines are and a little bit of information regarding their history they check this web site out. http://www.nasca.org.uk/leylines/leylines.html


Many thanks Shell :roll:

 

[WolverineDG]

Shell, this is just my opinion, but I think the Camino has some sort of "energy" all on its own, even if it is situated on or near ley lines. I have no evidence to back this up, just an intuition that I've had for many years. Each person who has travelled the Camino over the millenia (in pagan & Christian eras) has left a part of themselves along the Camino. Think of all those people who made the pilgrimage out of faith, praying for some miracle or giving thanks for another all along the path, or the ones who made the pilgrimage because it seemed like a great adventure, or anyone else for that matter: all of them have left a part of themselves behind on the Camino. They became a part of it just as much as the Camino became a part of them.

I get this feeling in places that people & cultures have held out as "sacred." In some places, like Westminster Abbey, it simply pours out of the stones. Perhaps the energy of the Camino works in the same way?

I hope this helps!

dg

 

[karanarttravel]

I have searched high and low and in general I am none the wiser. Do they exist? Where are they located on the Camino? I really don?t know.

Hey Shell--
Do you need to know an exact area because you want to do something special in that spot? Dare I say the word without any negative connotations---but perhaps do a 'ritual' of sorts? Since the entire Camino experience is a ritual--I don't think I wrote out of line.

But, back to locale. Step one for ley line locations: research the ancients of that area--in our case, from Romans to Celts to Early Christians. They created the Camino they way they did because of the energy from that precise path.

Step two: trust yourself. Each human open to the idea can just 'stay tuned' to his/her body. Your 'vibrations', 'hums', elation, caution...any reaction which seems out of the ordinary means it is a personal ley line connection for you.

Step three: just get logical. I'm reading alot of historical facts here from some intelligent people in this forum...the church at Santiago can logically be an intersection, and how about all the other spots along the way where specific ritual has to be done (ie. Ponferrado). Again, our ancestors were so much more open than the majority of people today--they have marked the spots for us!

I'm sorry I can't help much more than this, Shell. I've seen 'maps' of ley lines for many other places like Stonehenge and the Nazca Lines...but nothing for the Camino. I'm new to the Camino ritual--I got the calling out of the blue in 2004--never heard of it before then--and now I must complete it.

I've done alot of work 'balancing' areas around the US which have become tainted by modern man's negative energy and pollution. Alot of Native American Mounds have 'died', and I went to work with a group of shamans to try and restore the energy to them. Did it work? Well, one particular mound's side faced a nuclear power plant, and all flora and fauna had stopped growing for years. The shamans' work over 3 days perhaps helped the mound reenergize itself and now, a year later, it is covered in greens and flowers. Each mound is on a ley line energy path. The Camino does not have this problem, I think--it sounds super-energized!!!

Keep on searching, Shell--you are bound to find something--enjoy this part of the Journey too! :wink: