Latin translation....

[OCjpr]

What is "Dnum" stands for?

What is the latin translation of "Dorothy"?

 

[JustRob]

Latin

The latin version of Dorothy is "Dorothea" (Adoro Thea)

Unlike English, Latin has a grammatical sense that indicates obligation, known as the gerundive sense. In Latin this is expressed with the suffixes -nda -dnus -dnum, the gender being female, male and neuter, respectively.

For exemple, "facere" is the Latin infinitive of the verb "to do". To state that a thing must be done, one uses the neuter gender (indicating that that it is a thing to be done as opposed to a person), resulting in the word faciendum (pl. facienda).

 

[Peter Robins]

What is "Dnum" stands for?

dominum, I would assume. Where are you seeing this?

What is the latin translation of "Dorothy"?

greek, meaning 'gift of God', so, something like 'donum Dei'.
Why? Are you off to see the wizard?

 

[Ulysse]

It appears before your name on the Compostela.

On my document it is "Drun or Dnun Michaelen L...."

 

[JustRob]

Help

I need a bit of context in which to work. Can you list the full sentence?

If you can post the translation of the certificate (if you have one) it would also help.

 

[ivar]

Have a look in the Wiki here:
http://www.pilgrim-wiki.com/index.php?title=Compostela

I have 0 knowledge of latin, but could it be that "Dnum" means just "Mr."?

Ivar

 

[Peter Robins]

yes, that's precisely what it means, from dominus, female domina, from which 'Don' in modern Spanish and Italian (and Oxford) comes. Doesn't quite translate into English, as 'Mr' comes from 'magister', which is not the same thing, but the meaning is the same.

If you look at the Spanish translation of the compostela at http://www.archicompostela.org/Peregrin ... ostela.htm you'll see 'D.' which is for Don or Doña.

The Spanish equivalent of Dorothy is Dorotea, which would be what they would use (not '-thea', as 'th' doesn't exist in Latin, or any of its modern descendants).

 

[JustRob]

Latin "th"

Peter,

I have to question your claim that there is no "th" in latin, and therefore Dorothy should be "Dorotea".

"Th" appears in certain latin words, as evidenced by the Summa Theologiae by Sancti Thomae de Aquino, which refers to such words as "mathematica", "arithmetica" and, of course, the "fide Catholica". Sancti Athanasius is also quoted.

You can view the Summa at http://www.corpusthomisticum.org/sth0000.html.

Latin borrows certain words from greek. Thea was one of the titans, and Theos is the greek word for God in the New Testament. Theos appears in the Trisagion in the Latin Catholic liturgy in many places, such as the Improperia on Good Friday, where we chant "Hagios o Theos, Hagios Iskyros, Hagios Athanatos Eleison Imas" (Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, Have Mercy on Us"). (Great walking chant)

 

[Peter Robins]

depends on what you mean by Latin, I suppose ;-)

Kyrie Eleison is part of the Tridentine Mass, but that doesn't make it Latin, even if it's commonly called the 'Latin Mass'. The 'th' may appear in certain borrowed words, like 'theologia' as you say, but they're pronounced and treated as Latin 't' not Greek theta. The same in modern languages: 'teologia' in Spanish and Italian, 'théologie', pronounced 'téologie', in French. And I would guess they're all later borrowings in medieval church Latin, not classical Latin. Can you quote me a case in Cicero?

'Ph' is the same: common in Greek words, but not in Latin, though I expect you can find some Latin texts with Greek borrowings with ph in too. And as for 'phth', as in diphthong . . .

 

[JustRob]

True that...

Peter,

As a former seminarian, I favor Ecclesial Latin, much to the detriment of the Classical Latin of my Roman forefathers, with whom you rightfully sided.

"Th" does not appear in Classical Latin outside of a few borrowed greek words. I did some research, and a few "th" words do appear in Cicero's Academica (mathematica and certain greek names). They do not, however, appear in Julius Caesar's Bello Gallico. :wink:

When asked about "Dorothy", my Ecclesial Latin (what I like to call the "living" latin) kicked in. There's a reason I cited to Aquinas - I still read him regularly, and it's the only latin I typically remember. I am obliged for your reminder to pay more attention to my classical latin.

Would you agree that it would be "Dorotea" in classical Latin and "Dorothea" in ecclesial Latin? I would say that would settle the matter.

 

[Peter Robins]

I was going to reply that we are dealing with ecclesiastics here, but the days when the compostelas were handed out by the priest in the sacristy have long gone, and I'm not sure what knowledge of Latin the folks that work in the pilgrim office have. I reckon they'd use Dorotea, but maybe not. Be interesting to know what they make of the Japanese or Korean names.

 

[sillydoll]

Latin Names

I don't think the HUGE book of names they use in the pilgrim's office even has all the 'Christian' and 'Latin' names.

Many latinized names had an Arabic origin, like Maryam (Mary), Isa (Jesus), Ibrahim (Abraham), Yahya (John) Yusuf (Joseph).

Many Christians have an 'old English Christian' or a "Latin Christian" name. Who know the primary source. Very confusing!

My friend Joy (who walked with me in 2004) has "Josapham" written on her compostela. They couldn't find JOY so looked up the next best "JO".

 

[Simon]

I ended up as Simonem while my friend Stuart was ... Stuart!!
Still, it's great to have the Compostela up on the wall. Am not entirely sure what the Latin citation on it says, though!
Am really missing the Camino today on a grey cold rainy day in noisy chaotic west London.
Simon

 

[sillydoll]

Compostela Translation

Compostela Translation

"The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic Metropolitan Cathedral of St. James, custodian of the seal of St. James' Altar, to all faithful and pilgrims who come from everywhere over the world as an act of devotion, under vow or promise to the Apostle's Tomb, our Patron and Protector of Spain, witnesses in the sight of all who read this document, that: Mr…………………has visited devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa).
Witness whereof I hand this document over to him, authenticated by the seal of this Sacred Church.
Given in St. James de Compostela on the (day)……(month)……A.D. ………
Chapter Secretary"

 

[JustRob]

Name Game

Latinizing names is always fun. I'm disappointed the folks at the Compostella office didn't simply use the latin word for Joy (Gaudium) for your friend Joy. Missed opportunity, especially in a country that speaks a romance language.

My favorite example was in the Jesuit graveyard, where everyone's tombstone was in latin: William (Gulielmus), James (Jacobus) & Louis (Aloysius).

"Robertus" Cartusciello

P.S. I'll let you latinists take a crack at my last name...

 

[William Marques]

Three translations of the compostela:

The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic Metropolitan Cathedral of Santiago, custodian of the Seal of Saint James' Altar, to all faithful and pilgrims who come from everywhere over the world as an act of devotion, under vow or promise to the Apostle's Tomb, our Patron and Protector of Spain, witnesses in the sight of all who read this document, that:
....................................................
has visited devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa).
Witness where of I hand this document over to him/her, authenticated by the seal of this Sacred Church.
Given in Santiago de Compostela on the (day)................
(month)............
A.D..................
(Signed) Chapter Secretary"

In order that the Chapter of this Holy, Apostolic, and Metropolitan Church of Compostela, guardian of the seal of the Altar of St. James, might provide all those Faithful and Pilgrims who come from the whole world to the threshold of our Apostle, Patron and Protector of Spain, whether out of special devotion or in fulfilment of a vow, with an authentic record of their visit, I make known to all those who will see the present document that
.......................
has visited this most holy Church with piety and devotion.
In confirmation of which I confer upon him/her the present certificate, authenticated by the seal of that same Holy Church.
Given at Compostela, on
the .... day
of the month....
in the year of the Lord......
Secretary of the Chapter

The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic Metropolitan Cathedral of Santiago,
guardian of the seal of the Altar of Saint James the Apostle, for all the pilgrims who arrive from any part of the Earth with an attitude of devotion or to fulfil a vow or promise to the Tomb of the Apostle, our patron and protector of Spain, witnesses before all those that read this document that
……………...........................
has visited very devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa)"
In confirmation of which I confer this certificate upon him/her, authenticated by the seal of that same Sacred Church.
Given at Compostela, on the
day ………………………….
month ……………..……….
Anno Domini …………….
Chapter Secretary

I'm Villelimium on mine.

 

[Peter Robins]

Re: Name Game

I'm disappointed the folks at the Compostella office didn't simply use the latin word for Joy (Gaudium) for your friend Joy.

or Laetitia, sometimes used as a girl's name in English (Letty/Lettice), though I don't think there's a Spanish version.

You'll be pleased to hear that I've just discovered that my ancient Latin dictionary has a list of personal names at the back. I have to say many of them are very contrived, but it does give Dorothy . . . Dorothea

 

[wulf]

The first time I went, I think I got assigned something like Wulfram; this year I persuaded them to use Lupum (or, at least explained that my name meant 'wolf' or 'lupus' in Latin).

Blessings on the people who work in that office during the summer; it must be a pretty tiring days work with a constant stream of pilgrims (presumably a little more sedate as the stream works down to a winter trickle).

Wulf

 

[koilife]

I came across this old thread and got curious about use of Dnum when the person is a priest or bishop. Does their compostella also begin Dnum or is it Pater or something else? Would Pope Francis get a compostella beginning Dnum?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Dominum (masc) and Dominam (fem) are abbreviated to "Dnum" and "Dnam" on the Compostela...they are the Latin equivalent to Don and Doña in Spanish - the formal address to men and women.