I recently attended a talk given at our local sports store on Camino del Norte

[A.C.]

I attended a talk about walking the Camino del Norte and the gal giving the account made it sound like she was on a Sunday stroll. Very much doubt much of her account was accurate. I'm not a newby to Camino walks, I have walked the French Way three times and there were hard days . I know the weather is always changing by the sea because I live in sight of it.

I would like to walk this northern route next September. I would like a honest version from someone who has walked Camino del Norte. Example: how steep are the descents , not worried about the climbs ; how lonely are the pathways ; how much road walking is there and how much traffic on these roads ; how difficult is it to find food and lodging and how easy is it to get lost because of poor signage. Also how is the weather in September , is there a lot of fog?

 

[Anne&Pat]

Hi AC, We have just completed the del Norte, beginning in Irun on 26 April and finishing in Santiago on 13 June, before walking on to Finisterre and Muxia. We have also walked the Frances and Portugues.
This Spring in Spain was apparently unseasonably wet so our observations with regard to weather and mud may not apply to you.
Firstly, we found the del Norte more difficult than either of the other Caminos. There are very many hills to climb and descend. There is not much flat walking. Depending on some of the options you choose you can make the path very difficult for yourself but, at the same time, these higher or more difficult options certainly have benefits. For example, the high option out of Soto de Luina is spectacular in good weather but you are likely to be walking it absolutely alone. The descent from this option is steep and the option adds a bit extra to the distance into Cadavedo. The high option out of Mondoñedo includes a very steep and long climb to the top of the escarpment. It took us one and three quarter hours from the start of the serious climb to reach the top. It was worth it in our opinion. We saw one other walking pilgrim and two cyclists while taking the whole option into Abadin. From Irun the descent into Pasajes de San Juan is also quite steep. We took the Purgatorio route from Irun which gives spectacular views. There were plenty of other pilgrims doing the same. Peregrina 2000 suggests a number of coastal variants which we either took or considered. One of these, the coastal suggestion out of Islares we found to be very, very, very difficult with some vertical climbing involved as well as a long, steep, zigzagging descent through broken rocks on an indistinct path. We received help to follow the correct path on the way down from a young French girl out for a walk, as well as a kind, young American couple who assisted us with the climb. The views were, however, spectacular! Weather in all these options will be the critical factor. We both slipped and fell several times descending wet and muddy paths. The Wise Pilgrim guidebook is mostly accurate. Signage is very good, so long as you are paying attention all the time. We missed a couple of turns but the usual Camino Angel saved us from too great an error. There is a lot of road walking and due to this we each wore out a pair of Salomon boots. Our experience with September in Santiago is: no fog and warm to hot weather with long days. Finally, the road or highway walking is relatively safe if you walk on the left facing the oncoming traffic and assume that not every driver will either see you or give you a lot of room. There are some quite dangerous road walking sections, in particular, the last km or so into Salinas follows a narrow, very busy, winding road with no footpath or shoulder. You will need to be very careful on this. I was most concerned here. In summary, the del Norte is no walk in the park but, nevertheless, very enjoyable. Best wishes and Buen Camino, Pat and Anne

 

[andycohn]

Hi AC: We, too, just finished the Norte and I echo everything Anne and Pat said. The first week is the hardest, so once you get through that, you probably won’t find the subsequent going so daunting. Yes, it continues to be more difficult than the Frances, but not on an order of magnitude more. Food is much, much better than the Frances. Fresh, lots of fish, and even the Pilgrim’s meals are (often) well-prepared. The towns you pass through on the coast are all beach / tourist towns, so September (like May) will be off-season, so there is no problem with accommodations. In particular, we found pensions and hotels to be steeply discounted, and even found that a private room in a pension with your own bathroom was sometimes cheaper than two beds in an albergue. No problem with signage, but as Anne and Pat indicate, there are a lot more alternatives than on the Frances. These can be more scenic and more strenuous than the official Camino. Your mood and energy will dictate which to follow. Wise Pilgrim lists the alternatives. It’s hard to answer your question about loneliness. It’s far less-traveled than the Frances, but if you leave every morning between 7 and 8, there will always be other pilgrims. The Norte thins out after the Primitivo splits off, but you still won’t be alone. Finally, there’s no need to kill yourself and do 25 - 30 k stages everyday. Plenty of accommodations. We’re in our late ‘60’s and stretched it out to roughly 40 days, and still felt strong at the end. Buen Camino!

 

[spidgeon]

Any idea what the weather is like in early August starting in St Jean Pied de Port and heading towards Pamplona?

 

[trecile]

Any idea what the weather is like in early August starting in St Jean Pied de Port and heading towards Pamplona?

Hot

 

[peregrina2000]

Peregrina 2000 suggests a number of coastal variants which we either took or considered. One of these, the coastal suggestion out of Islares we found to be very, very, very difficult with some vertical climbing involved as well as a long, steep, zigzagging descent through broken rocks on an indistinct path. We received help to follow the correct path on the way down from a young French girl out for a walk, as well as a kind, young American couple who assisted us with the climb.

Hi, Anne and Pat,
It would be great if you would add your comments to the coastal alternatives thread so others can see them. I think that perhaps the route you took from Islares was not the one I took, but rather the one Luka recommended? If you look at post number 5 in that thread, you will see I describe two options. I did 4A, and I don’t remember any bad patches, maybe you were on 4B, which is what Luka describbed, I don’t know. Did you have a GPS?

 

[Anne&Pat]

Hi, Anne and Pat,
It would be great if you would add your comments to the coastal alternatives thread so others can see them. I think that perhaps the route you took from Islares was not the one I took, but rather the one Luka recommended? If you look at post number 5 in that thread, you will see I describe two options. I did 4A, and I don’t remember any bad patches, maybe you were on 4B, which is what Luka describbed, I don’t know. Did you have a GPS?

Hi, Laurie, You may well be right about not necessarily being on the option you described. We turned off the N634 just after El Pontarron, followed the path to Orinon and then followed the green footpath to Sonabia. From the entrance to Sonabia we followed a formally marked walking path which indicated the distance to Laredo 9 kms. This ascended, became very narrow and turned into a 40 metre or so vertical ascent through a chute to the escarpment. After about one km + there was a steel rope fixed to the cliff side and a very narrow path above a drop of about 150 metres to the sea below. We passed through a narrow cleft between the mountainside and a pillar of rock and the descent began on the other side. We did not have a GPS. We did follow a number of your options and enjoyed them, particularly those following the GR 121 from Pasajes, into Deba etc. When we get back to Australia we will add some observations from our experiences. Many thanks for your additions to the del Norte. Kind regards, Pat and Anne

 

[Tincatinker]

I attended a talk about walking the Camino del Norte and the gal giving the account made it sound like she was on a Sunday stroll. Very much doubt much of her account was accurate. I'm not a newby to Camino walks, I have walked the French Way three times and there were hard days . I know the weather is always changing by the sea because I live in sight of it.

I would like to walk this northern route next September. I would like a honest version from someone who has walked Camino del Norte. Example: how steep are the descents , not worried about the climbs ; how lonely are the pathways ; how much road walking is there and how much traffic on these roads ; how difficult is it to find food and lodging and how easy is it to get lost because of poor signage. Also how is the weather in September , is there a lot of fog?

Wow @A.C. you're not asking much. Having had an opportunity to discuss your questions, face-to-face with someone who has walked the Norte you've dismissed their knowledge and opinions and instead posed the question to a bunch of random strangers on the internet. Presumably you can't be bothered to research the various guides, blogs and threads on this topic, let alone the historic weather sites, and come to your own discoveries and conclusions. What will you do if a couple of dozen Norte fans tell you that all the descents are gentle, you will have company all the way, the roads are closed to vehicular traffic, all Albergues serve sumptuous meals and you can't get lost because there is always a smiling local, with perfect English, to guide you on your way with a smile?

If you have walked the Frances three times and experienced hard days then you already know that those hard days never come in the same place or in the same way. The weather, your own physical or mental state and even what you had or didn't have for breakfast change the Way in more ways than the Way will ever change you.

Here are my honest opinions: steep, what goes up must come down. You'll be walking a popular route in 'shoulder' times through a populated area - there will be people and pilgrims about but nothing, absolutely nothing like the Frances. Accommodations in September? No problem. Getting lost? Only through carelessness, the Norte is well marked and the available guidebooks are excellent. The weather? How is it where you are? We've just followed the coldest spring on record with the hottest May on record. The tadpoles that didn't freeze baked in the dried out ponds.

I hope you walk the Norte. I hope you have a 'Buen Camino'. But if you doubt others who have walked it then you'll just have to trust in Santiago and find out for yourself.

 

[spursfan]

You're much more likely to encounter extreme heat in September than fog - and accommodation in the coastal resorts can be scarce - and there are fewer fellow pilgrims

Best of all, get the Wise Pilgrim guide or app and answer some of your own questions

 

[Theatregal]

Hi @A.C. The Norte is high on my list at the moment and as with any route I'm considering, my first go-to place for information is...this forum. Unless someone answers your questions with all you need, the Norte forum is a wealth of information - current and a wide variety of experiences, practical tips and resources are readily available. Do keep in mind that any experience you read (including the woman whose talk you attended) is personal, honest and truthful for that particular pilgrim. Wishing you a great time with your research and hope that if not the Norte, you find another route that will suit you best!

 

[backpack45scb]

I attended a talk about walking the Camino del Norte and the gal giving the account made it sound like she was on a Sunday stroll. ....... Example: how steep are the descents , not worried about the climbs ; how lonely are the pathways ; how much road walking is there and how much traffic on these roads ; how difficult is it to find food and lodging and how easy is it to get lost because of poor signage. Also how is the weather in September , is there a lot of fog?

You clearly didn't attend one of our talks, as it wasn't close to a Sunday stroll for Susan and she makes that clear. I'll post a link to our Norte Primitivo page in a moment, but to cover some things not on that page: There are a few steep descents, but not long, and usually there is an option to bypass. I don't remember the descents between Irun and San Sebastian, so they couldn't have been too bad, though there are some steep ascents. After Bilbao but before Santander, there is a hill between Liendo and Noja, called El Brusco. That hill is tricky both ascending and descending. You can take an alternate trail around it. After that I don't remember any problem descents, but between Villaviciosa and Ribadeo there is a section where you are walking along the N632, which is a modern full speed very curvy highway, but little traffic, since it is now bypassed by the A8 - the super highway now running along the coast. The Norte trail marks along this section will sometimes take you down a steep stony path to the ocean, and then back up to the highway again. You can have an easier time of it by just staying on the highway at these points. Also this is an area where we did feel a little isolated. No other pilgrims and some trailer camps at the beach that appeared to be low income housing.

From Ribadeo you head inland towards Arzua and Santiago. You are away from the tourist areas so might feel a little lonely, but will see a few pilgrims every day.

There is a lot of road walking. My guess is 80%, Susan says 60%. However, most of that is on farm roads. You may share it with a tractor or some cows once in a while, but usually the asphalt is broken, you can walk on the edge, etc. Beyond Villaviciosa there is a period where you walk on the N632 or N634? a while, but I think only a day or so. There traffic is light but fast. We did a spreadsheet with distances between food and lodging as we couldn't do much more than 15 to 18k per day. We found food and lodging at that distance, I think with two exceptions. In those cases we took a taxi or bus at the start of the day to a point where the remaining distance was something we could manage. There is a link to the spreadsheet we used on our Norte Primitivo page, link to eventually come.

Signage adequate. One instance where I thought we were needlessly detoured into a town and out to benefit a business. Sorry, can't remember where.

Weather for the most part excellent in Sept and June (long story). We put on full raingear about 3 times, but took it off in a few hours. Little fog.

So, link to our Norte Primitivo page: http://backpack45.com/norte-primitivo.html

 

[Maggie Y]

I feel quite emotional reading all this. I'm hoping to finish el Norte this Sept. I have been walking it in sections with women friends since 2014. This Sept we will walk from Ribadeo to Santiago , the spirit willing. There are some challenging climbs and descents . The beauty is astounding. The weather has always been kind in Sept. I and the women I walk with are all 60 plus. One of the friends has done it all in normal sandals. Wishing you all the very best. Bueno Camino Maggie

 

[Baba John]

Hi AC, We have just completed the del Norte, beginning in Irun on 26 April and finishing in Santiago on 13 June, before walking on to Finisterre and Muxia. We have also walked the Frances and Portugues.
This Spring in Spain was apparently unseasonably wet so our observations with regard to weather and mud may not apply to you.
Firstly, we found the del Norte more difficult than either of the other Caminos. There are very many hills to climb and descend. There is not much flat walking. Depending on some of the options you choose you can make the path very difficult for yourself but, at the same time, these higher or more difficult options certainly have benefits. For example, the high option out of Soto de Luina is spectacular in good weather but you are likely to be walking it absolutely alone. The descent from this option is steep and the option adds a bit extra to the distance into Cadavedo. The high option out of Mondoñedo includes a very steep and long climb to the top of the escarpment. It took us one and three quarter hours from the start of the serious climb to reach the top. It was worth it in our opinion. We saw one other walking pilgrim and two cyclists while taking the whole option into Abadin. From Irun the descent into Pasajes de San Juan is also quite steep. We took the Purgatorio route from Irun which gives spectacular views. There were plenty of other pilgrims doing the same. Peregrina 2000 suggests a number of coastal variants which we either took or considered. One of these, the coastal suggestion out of Islares we found to be very, very, very difficult with some vertical climbing involved as well as a long, steep, zigzagging descent through broken rocks on an indistinct path. We received help to follow the correct path on the way down from a young French girl out for a walk, as well as a kind, young American couple who assisted us with the climb. The views were, however, spectacular! Weather in all these options will be the critical factor. We both slipped and fell several times descending wet and muddy paths. The Wise Pilgrim guidebook is mostly accurate. Signage is very good, so long as you are paying attention all the time. We missed a couple of turns but the usual Camino Angel saved us from too great an error. There is a lot of road walking and due to this we each wore out a pair of Salomon boots. Our experience with September in Santiago is: no fog and warm to hot weather with long days. Finally, the road or highway walking is relatively safe if you walk on the left facing the oncoming traffic and assume that not every driver will either see you or give you a lot of room. There are some quite dangerous road walking sections, in particular, the last km or so into Salinas follows a narrow, very busy, winding road with no footpath or shoulder. You will need to be very careful on this. I was most concerned here. In summary, the del Norte is no walk in the park but, nevertheless, very enjoyable. Best wishes and Buen Camino, Pat and Anne

When road walking always have high viz yellow to cover your pack. If the pack cover you get with your pack is anything but search the internet for the yellow. Blaze orange is my second choice. If you have such colors and they have been with you for some time they might be faded and need to be replaced, or 'freshened up'.
Also if they don't have some reflective substance on them you can apply some reflective tape should you be in fog or have to walk at night.
Buen Camino

 

[A.C.]

Wow @A.C. you're not asking much. Having had an opportunity to discuss your questions, face-to-face with someone who has walked the Norte you've dismissed their knowledge and opinions and instead posed the question to a bunch of random strangers on the internet. Presumably you can't be bothered to research the various guides, blogs and threads on this topic, let alone the historic weather sites, and come to your own discoveries and conclusions. What will you do if a couple of dozen Norte fans tell you that all the descents are gentle, you will have company all the way, the roads are closed to vehicular traffic, all Albergues serve sumptuous meals and you can't get lost because there is always a smiling local, with perfect English, to guide you on your way with a smile?

If you have walked the Frances three times and experienced hard days then you already know that those hard days never come in the same place or in the same way. The weather, your own physical or mental state and even what you had or didn't have for breakfast change the Way in more ways than the Way will ever change you.

Here are my honest opinions: steep, what goes up must come down. You'll be walking a popular route in 'shoulder' times through a populated area - there will be people and pilgrims about but nothing, absolutely nothing like the Frances. Accommodations in September? No problem. Getting lost? Only through carelessness, the Norte is well marked and the available guidebooks are excellent. The weather? How is it where you are? We've just followed the coldest spring on record with the hottest May on record. The tadpoles that didn't freeze baked in the dried out ponds.

I hope you walk the Norte. I hope you have a 'Buen Camino'. But if you doubt others who have walked it then you'll just have to trust in Santiago and find out for yourself.

 

[Nick B]

The Norte musn't have been too hard for Anne and Pat, they were full of energy when I met them at Monte do Gozo just outside Santiago. Some Italian cyclists were hogging the Monument for photos, think Pat threatened to let the air out of their tyres if they didn't hurry up and move on. Again met them at the Cathedral for more photo opportunities, mass that night then saw them in the streets of Santiago next day walking briskly after 800km on the Norte and soon to be heading to Finnisterre and Muxia.

Based on those observations the Norte may well be a 'walk in the park', or they just breed them tough down Country Victoria way...

 

[Anne&Pat]

The Norte musn't have been too hard for Anne and Pat, they were full of energy when I met them at Monte do Gozo just outside Santiago. Some Italian cyclists were hogging the Monument for photos, think Pat threatened to let the air out of their tyres if they didn't hurry up and move on. Again met them at the Cathedral for more photo opportunities, mass that night then saw them in the streets of Santiago next day walking briskly after 800km on the Norte and soon to be heading to Finnisterre and Muxia.

Based on those observations the Norte may well be a 'walk in the park', or they just breed them tough down Country Victoria way...

Thanks Nic for the kind observations. You probably saw us in euphoric mode due to the imminent arrival in Santiago and the relief that we had made it after 49 days. Glad you appear to have made it home safely. It was terrific to hear an Australian accent at Monte de Gozo and then to see you again in the Plaza d’Obradoiro. Best wishes for your future Caminos, Pat and Anne

 

[Anne&Pat]

Sorry Nick. Nic is one of our daughters names and I’m just used to spelling it that way. Regards, Pat

 

[Nick B]

Sorry Nick. Nic is one of our daughters names and I’m just used to spelling it that way. Regards, Pat

Great to meet you and Anne Pat, you're both an inspiration considering all the Caminos you've completed and the mud you hiked through during the Norte on the way to Santiago.

All the best on your future adventures.

 

[Rondimc]

I attended a talk about walking the Camino del Norte and the gal giving the account made it sound like she was on a Sunday stroll. Very much doubt much of her account was accurate. I'm not a newby to Camino walks, I have walked the French Way three times and there were hard days . I know the weather is always changing by the sea because I live in sight of it.

I would like to walk this northern route next September. I would like a honest version from someone who has walked Camino del Norte. Example: how steep are the descents , not worried about the climbs ; how lonely are the pathways ; how much road walking is there and how much traffic on these roads ; how difficult is it to find food and lodging and how easy is it to get lost because of poor signage. Also how is the weather in September , is there a lot of fog?

My wife and I walked the Norte from Irun Sept 1 toto Oct 12, last year . It is not without its challenges. The Basque country has many steep climbs and corresponding descents.. The weather was quite wet initially, almost daily rain, but it was not unpleasantly cold or windy....just a bit of a nuisance! Most of our camino was in fine weather after the 1st 10 days. We had no trouble finding accommodations and the trails were very well marked generally. There were a few exceptions in each province except Galicia, but nothing that couldn't be sorted out without too much backtracking. There is a moderate amount of road walking, but mainly it is on trails. The scenery is breathtaking along the coast, the small villages are unique and picturesque, and the people generally warm and accommodating.
The biggest disappointment was joining the Francais near A Brea near the end point of our Camino. What had been a pretty pristine walk for the most part, morphed into a vandalized, littered, and crowded walk with obvious signs of disrespect for the pilgrimage....graffiti, human waste, etc. But it is the memory of the first 750+ kms that remain etched in our memories most vividly.
I am sure you will love doing the Norte. The camino provides, and each obstacle you meet, you will overcome. Buen Camino!

 

[Princess Kaguya]

My wife and I walked the Norte from Irun Sept 1 toto Oct 12, last year . It is not without its challenges. The Basque country has many steep climbs and corresponding descents.. The weather was quite wet initially, almost daily rain, but it was not unpleasantly cold or windy....just a bit of a nuisance! Most of our camino was in fine weather after the 1st 10 days. We had no trouble finding accommodations and the trails were very well marked generally. There were a few exceptions in each province except Galicia, but nothing that couldn't be sorted out without too much backtracking. There is a moderate amount of road walking, but mainly it is on trails. The scenery is breathtaking along the coast, the small villages are unique and picturesque, and the people generally warm and accommodating.
The biggest disappointment was joining the Francais near A Brea near the end point of our Camino. What had been a pretty pristine walk for the most part, morphed into a vandalized, littered, and crowded walk with obvious signs of disrespect for the pilgrimage....graffiti, human waste, etc. But it is the memory of the first 750+ kms that remain etched in our memories most vividly.
I am sure you will love doing the Norte. The camino provides, and each obstacle you meet, you will overcome. Buen Camino!

Many thanks for this, Rondimc!
I chose to reply to your comment in particular, out of the many value inputs above, because the time you walked corresponds roughly to what I have in mind for mine and my partner's.

I have two specific concerns:
1. I read that facilities are scarcer on the northern way. I am talking albergues, specifically. Are we running the risk for them to be closed in Sept through mid-October? Is there anything like a semi-official closing date for the albergues along the route?
2. Are the albergues on the route pilgrim affordable (around EUR 10)? When people write that this route can be touristy, I am thinking if I am running the risk of ending in a village where the only option is a casa rural at EUR 30+? This camino is long so affordability is important to us.

Finally, somebody said that the ascents/descents are mostly through hills and there are some flat stretches too. I don't mind a few challenging ascents, but I would be concerned about my camino being all about ups and downs (pun intended!) without flat stretches through villages/farms.

I am excited about del Norte, but want to make an informed decision. And then again, the camino will always surprise you, so that's ok too. At least I did my homework

Thanks for taking the time!

 

[Rondimc]

You're welcome Princess!
We did not have any trouble finding Albergues anywhere on the Norte. HOWEVER, we generally finished our walking by early to mid afternoon . Any later than that and you risked the albergues being full. Most towns do have alternate affordable accommodations, perhaps a bit more, in the 15 to 20 Euro range, but they usually offer some amenities like full size towels, so once in a while it is a treat. As far as I know, there is no official closing date for albergues along the route, but you should have no trouble in this regard during the time frame you are considering.

The Norte can be challenging. Pace yourself. Start slow. The first 10 days are tough. There is a saying "You walk yourself fit". You will develop a rhythm to your day by listening to your body. The hills will become vantage points, rather than grinds, and when you stop to catch your breath , the views will be breathtaking!

The Norte is becoming more and more popular each year, but it seems local people and pilgrim infrastructure are adapting to this. I have heard that numbers increase dramatically during Holy years, but I am not sure when the next one is. Hope this helps.. Bueno Camino.

 

[spursfan]

You should also be aware that early September is still popular for local holidaymakers along the coast from San Sebastian to Deba

 

[A.C.]

Wow @A.C. you're not asking much. Having had an opportunity to discuss your questions, face-to-face with someone who has walked the Norte you've dismissed their knowledge and opinions and instead posed the question to a bunch of random strangers on the internet. Presumably you can't be bothered to research the various guides, blogs and threads on this topic, let alone the historic weather sites, and come to your own discoveries and conclusions. What will you do if a couple of dozen Norte fans tell you that all the descents are gentle, you will have company all the way, the roads are closed to vehicular traffic, all Albergues serve sumptuous meals and you can't get lost because there is always a smiling local, with perfect English, to guide you on your way with a smile?

If you have walked the Frances three times and experienced hard days then you already know that those hard days never come in the same place or in the same way. The weather, your own physical or mental state and even what you had or didn't have for breakfast change the Way in more ways than the Way will ever change you.

Here are my honest opinions: steep, what goes up must come down. You'll be walking a popular route in 'shoulder' times through a populated area - there will be people and pilgrims about but nothing, absolutely nothing like the Frances. Accommodations in September? No problem. Getting lost? Only through carelessness, the Norte is well marked and the available guidebooks are excellent. The weather? How is it where you are? We've just followed the coldest spring on record with the hottest May on record. The tadpoles that didn't freeze baked in the dried out ponds.

I hope you walk the Norte. I hope you have a 'Buen Camino'. But if you doubt others who have walked it then you'll just have to trust in Santiago and find out for yourself.

Pick on someone your own size . You’re a bully !

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Pick on someone your own size . You’re a bully !

Wow! @AC. I can’t help noticing that the silence is deafening. Maybe I should be reflecting on the fact that I’ve posted many times about my enthusiasms, problems and ignorance about the camino to “a bunch of strangers on the internet”. Very rarely I have responded to a post that somehow got my hackles up - one that comes to mind is when I vigorously objected to the dismissal of my favourite movie - yes, that one - as a “Hollywood movie”. But in no way did I intend criticism of the member(s) who had done so.
Judging by one of the "likes" you received perhaps you and I misinterpreted the humour (?), and should not be refreshing our interpretation of Rule No 1.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Ah. I’ve just noticed that this thread is 3 years old. I often fall into that trap. I’m considering deleting.

 

[trecile]

Ah. I’ve just noticed that this thread is 3 years old. I often fall into that trap. I’m considering deleting.

The interesting thing is that the OP waited three years before posting their reply!

 

[Kanga]

I think there is little point in continuing this thread - it was started three years ago and I think it best to close it in the interests of keeping things civil and on track. @A.C. if you are still seeking information perhaps you could start a new, fresh thread.