Help from German Pilgrims

[Caligal]

I just received photos and documents from my cousin and would love to know if anyone can tell me anything about this document regarding my great grandmother. Thanks

 

[MinaKamina]

It is a discharge certificate of a school in Forbach, signed by the school supervisors.

 

[Caligal]

It is a discharge certificate of a school in Forbach, signed by the school supervisors.

Is discharge same as graduation?

 

[MinaKamina]

Is discharge same as graduation?

I don't think it is, the German dictionary does not mention it.

I cannot quite read the name of the school, I guess it is Hortbildungsschule, horticultural school. Bildung is education. At the time (1884), education in Germany was a large hotchpotch of schools, institutions and regulations that might vary per region, even within the various German Länder.

Do you know the age of your great grandmother at the time? This may give you an indication.

 

[Caligal]

She was born 1869 so that would make her around 15, thats why i considered graduation. Thank you for your help the camino forum answers not just Camino questions

 

[Kathor1]

I cannot quite read the name of the school, I guess it is Hortbildungsschule,

It is Fortbildungsschule. They were created in the late 1800s and continued well into the 20th century. The date on the document is 1884 btw. No graduation as such and no school exam at the end. They would be attended by young people who were in vocational training with a craftsman, or perhaps in a household (apprentice cook), or similar, basically apprenticeship. It's part of the dual education system, something that Germany is renowned for I think.

 

[Saint Mike II]

Just another example of how this "Forum" provides. Cheers

 

[sugargypsy]

Forbach seems to be a local community of the Black Forrest in South Germany - at least I did not find any other place in Germany named Forbach.

Though at the time the certificate was written, Forbach was a part of Elsaß-Lothringen which was in 1884 part of the German Reich.

I live quite "close" (about 100 km away), so if you have any further questions I'd be glad to be of help .

 

[MinaKamina]

Forbach seems to be a local community of the Black Forrest in South Germany - at least I did not find any other place in Germany named Forbach.

Though at the time the certificate was written, Forbach was a part of Elsaß-Lothringen which was in 1884 part of the German Reich.

I live quite "close" (about 100 km away), so if you have any further questions I'd be glad to be of help .

There are two places named Forbach.
One is near Baden-Baden in Baden-Württemberg in Germany, the other is the Moselle region of France next to Saarbrücken, Germany.

The Wunsch family originates from Forbach, Germany.

 

[Kathor1]

There are two places named Forbach.
One is near Baden-Baden in Baden-Württemberg in Germany

Oh, this is fun . The coat of arms at the top of the document points to Baden and the former margrave of Baden. The signatures read Krämer (Bürgermeister) and Hofmann (Hauptlehrer), ie the family names of the mayor and the principal teacher. Note the different types of handwriting, some of it is in Kurrent script or Sütterlin script. It depends on when and how you had been taught writing in primary school.

 

[Roland49]

pmfji

A "Fortbildunggschule" were introduced in the german schooling-system for special training, mostly for commercial and craftmanship. Sometimes for housekeeping and childcare.
It states that the graduate has left the school with a higher form of commercial or social education.

 

[MinaKamina]

pmfji

A "Fortbildunggschule" were introduced in the german schooling-system for special training, mostly for commercial and craftmanship. Sometimes for housekeeping and childcare.
It states that the graduate has left the school with a higher form of commercial or social education.

There is no mention of graduation. Entlassungsschein is also used in discharge from the army for instance.

I wonder if it was common for girls to train in craftmanship and commercial subjects? Would it not be more likely that Amalia Wunsch learned about housekeeping and child care, and no diploma was provided?

@Caligal, if you feel like it, do write to the archives of Forbach, would be interesting to know what they can tell about this Fortbildungsschule, and possibly Amalia.

 

[gittiharre]

I don't think it is, the German dictionary does not mention it.

I cannot quite read the name of the school, I guess it is Hortbildungsschule, horticultural school. Bildung is education. At the time (1884), education in Germany was a large hotchpotch of schools, institutions and regulations that might vary per region, even within the various German Länder.

Do you know the age of your great grandmother at the time? This may give you an indication.

I think it is Fortbildungsschule, further education..

 

[Michael; Camino-addicted]

"Entlassungsschein" in this context means only, that Amalia Wunsch was released from this school on 21. April 1884.
The weapon above says, that the school was in Forbach / Grand Duchy of Baden, not in Forbach / Lorraine.

During this time, the school year in Germany always ended Easter and the duty was fulfilled after 8 years of school, normally at age 14. Maybe she didn´t find a place to learn a profession and I don´t think that the parents had aloud Amalia to do a hole year nothing, So they sent her after the normal school to an additional school.

Quite a lot of girls still went to a household school after the normal school to be prepared to manage a family. The nickname for these schools was "pudding school"

 

[gittiharre]

I just received photos and documents from my cousin and would love to know if anyone can tell me anything about this document regarding my great grandmother. Thanks View attachment 53340

Schulentlassung in itself just refers to the fact, that the person was officially released from school.

 

[Michael; Camino-addicted]

Forbach is a quite small municipal community in the northern part of the black forest (Schwarzwald).

Startseite | Forbach

Gemeinde Forbach, Startseite

www.forbach.de

Today Forbach has less than 5000 inhabitants and more than 20 villages and "mikro villages" belongs to Forbach. Therefore on a birth certificate of Amalia Wunsch is possibly written another birthplace than Forbach.

It´s inside the "Nationalpark Schwarzwald" and with the "Westweg"one of the three famous hiking trails in the black forest goes through Forbach.

Back to the roots If you have two weeks you can walk this 285km way from Pforzheim/Germany to Basel/Switzerland.

2021 is a holy year and it will be quite full on the Camino - your chance to the Westweg

 

[Caligal]

Forbach is a quite small municipal community in the northern part of the black forest (Schwarzwald).

Startseite | Forbach

Gemeinde Forbach, Startseite

www.forbach.de

Today Forbach has less than 5000 inhabitants and more than 20 villages and "mikro villages" belongs to Forbach. Therefore on a birth certificate of Amalia Wunsch is possibly written another birthplace than Forbach.

It´s inside the "Nationalpark Schwarzwald" and with the "Westweg"one of the three famous hiking trails in the black forest goes through Forbach.

Back to the roots If you have two weeks you can walk this 285km way from Pforzheim/Germany to Basel/Switzerland.

2021 is a holy year and it will be quite full on the Camino - your chance to the Westweg

You are correct Michael on the US census from 1920 it lists Amilia’s birthplace as Wurttemburg, 1869. She immigrated to the US with my greatgrandfather (David Ehmann) in 1889. Since receiving photos and a couple documents just days ago I have a renewed interest in seeing where it all started. I am walking the Camino this fall so 2021 may be the perfect time to explore Germany Thank you for inspiring me! One big question-would i have to learn German?

 

[MinaKamina]

You are correct Michael on the US census from 1920 it lists Amilia’s birthplace as Wurttemburg, 1869. She immigrated to the US with my greatgrandfather (David Ehmann) in 1889. Since receiving photos and a couple documents just days ago I have a renewed interest in seeing where it all started. I am walking the Camino this fall so 2021 may be the perfect time to explore Germany Thank you for inspiring me! One big question-would i have to learn German?

Wurttenburg is not a town or a village, but the name of an old German kingdom dating back from the 12th century that went on the form part of the Bundesland Baden-Württenburg in 1952. So it would have been called Württenburg at the time that Amalia was born.

 

[Giselleontour]

would i have to learn German?
No, I don`t think so. Most of Germans are speaking English meanwhile. There might be a problem with the old people but English is common in Elementary school and goes further till the end of any school. You will always find anyone who does understand and can help if necessary.
Forbach and the Black Forest are just beautiful.

I found the Wunsch-Family here.

Auswanderer aus Forbach - Detailseite - LEO-BW

Informationen zum Objekt Auswanderer aus Forbach in LEO-BW-Landeskunde entdecken online

www.leo-bw.de

 

[MinaKamina]

If I get this right @Caligal, you may have a distant family member in Brazil who has traced the Wunsch family back to 1134 in Windischgraetz, Austria.

So yes, do learn German.

 

[Michael; Camino-addicted]

It´s not necessary to learn German and I think you know already a few words to survive like Schnitzel, Bier

I did not find a place named Wurrtenburg and I think, it has to be Württemberg.

In the US census obviously the home countries of the immigrants are named, because Württemberg was a separate state (kingdom), before Germany formed a federation in 1871. Germany in the modern sense did not exist in 1869. Forbach is located in the old border region between Baden and Württemberg

 

[sugargypsy]

One big question-would i have to learn German?

Normally, it should not be difficult finding someone who speaks English since it's being usually taught as first foreing language in Germany. However, most people in that area study French as their first foreign language because of the proximity to the French border.

But normally you should get along quite well with English.

 

[Michael; Camino-addicted]

Im afraid Caligal has to learn several languages, because Windischgrätz belonged to Yugoslavia since 1918 and is now in Slovenia.

@Caligal Yes, you can........

 

[MinaKamina]

Im afraid Caligal has to learn several languages, because Windischgrätz belonged to Yugoslavia since 1918 and is now in Slovenia.

@Caligal Yes, you can........

It is going to be an interesting ride.... Slovenia is a great country for hiking too and there are even mentions of a Slovenian Camino.
It is amazing where your great-grandmother may lead you!

 

[Michael; Camino-addicted]

@Caligal Let´s take a look at another branch of your family

Also very nice would be relatives in (Way of St. Olaf) or (Via Francigena)..........

 

[Caligal]

@Caligal Let´s take a look at another branch of your family

Also very nice would be relatives in (Way of St. Olaf) or (Via Francigena)..........

Ok this is fun. My maternal grandfather immigrated from Czechoalovakia in 1905. I googled Via Francigena that looks intriguing I always wanted to see Italy. Next!

 

[Via2010]

Very interesting. From the stories my grandmother told me about her education and her sister´s, I can add this:
In the 1880s girls in Germany did not learn a profession but were prepared to marry and have children. Normally they lived with their parents, helped in their household or business (agriculture mainly) until they got married. Spinsters were considered to look after their aged parents or their brothers household/children. Only people with some money could afford to send their daughters to a "Fortbildungsschule".

 

[Michael; Camino-addicted]

@Caligal I would say, you need more or less a sabatical to walk to all places were your ancestors are from.

The story of your family is very exciting and so different from mine. My ancestors froms both sides always lived on the same very small farms for many generations and married only in a distance, were you could walk to- how boring.

 

[Caligal]

@Caligal I would say, you need more or less a sabatical to walk to all places were your ancestors are from.

The story of your family is very exciting and so different from mine. My ancestors froms both sides always lived on the same very small farms for many generations and married only in a distance, were you could walk to- how boring.

At 67 I’m not sure I could do such a walk that’s why the Camino worked so well for me. My immediate family all still live on the East Coast close to where they got off the boat. I am the only one who headed west.

 

[Bonita]

Forbach is a quite small municipal community in the northern part of the black forest (Schwarzwald).

Startseite | Forbach

Gemeinde Forbach, Startseite

www.forbach.de

Today Forbach has less than 5000 inhabitants and more than 20 villages and "mikro villages" belongs to Forbach. Therefore on a birth certificate of Amalia Wunsch is possibly written another birthplace than Forbach.

It´s inside the "Nationalpark Schwarzwald" and with the "Westweg"one of the three famous hiking trails in the black forest goes through Forbach.

Back to the roots If you have two weeks you can walk this 285km way from Pforzheim/Germany to Basel/Switzerland.

2021 is a holy year and it will be quite full on the Camino - your chance to the Westweg

I loved this video and the wonderful walking in Germany. Thanks for sharing.