Help for the unfit! How many hours from Orisson to Roncesvalles?

[sarahwillwalk]

Hello, all, I'm looking to do my second mini-Camino around the 8th of September (SJPP to Puente dela Reina). Having done Sarria to Santiago a few years ago, I've always wanted to begin in SJPP, and do a little bit over the years to get my Camino "fix" every couple of years.

I am about to embark on a totally separate life journey (unexpectedly moving from UK to Asia), and I thought that doing stage of the Camino (albeit on short notice) will somehow help me accept my new life. I do remember embracing the simplicity of putting my left foot in front of my right, then the other, and somehow walking 29km in one day! I also remember the comfort of my friends, those helpful yellow arrows that led the way. Hopefully I can call on these for my UK to Asia "camino"! But I digress.

Due to the short notice, I have done no training and have only TWO WEEKS left to train. As such, I will be cutting the SJPP to Roncesvalles by staying over one night... in either Orisson or Valcarlos. My preference is Napoleon. Also, I am walking with a companion who feels strongly about seeing the picturesque route. I want the walk to be rewarding for her too, as she is walking mainly to support me. (We are booking our accommodation in advance and getting luggage transferred ahead of us, again, due to me being unable to carry any more than I have to! I would love to be able to forward parts of my body to the next hotel LOL.)

I, on the other hand, need to ascertain if I can make it without getting a heart attack. (I am 183lbs and it takes me 1hr15min to walk 5km on a FLAT city road!). So although I am partial to Orisson, I would like to know how long it took you guys to do the Orisson to Roncesvalles bit. That's roughly a 600m ascent over 14km.

Also, I'm struggling to find a link that directly compares the two routes. Ideally what I would love is links to photos that show the terrain / incline, ideally in videos! Can anyone help? Thanks! Sarah

 

[Tincatinker]

http://www.gronze.com/camino-frances provides comparison between the two routes, elevations, and pictures.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

In an earlier post I attached a profile of the high and low routes from St Jean to Roncevalles. See https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/how-steep-is-steep.38918/#post-386389

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule

Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.

So for your hike the Naismith rule says approximately 3 hours for horizontal work and 1 hour for the climb for a total of 4 hours.

Now let's add in a correction for the shape you are in and fatigue over an extended distance (Tranter's corrections.)

You say you can do 5 km in an hour and a quarter on the flat so it would take about 2 and a half hours to do 10 km and the Naismith rule says this would take 2 hours. Looking at the Tranter's corrections chart on the Wikipedia page it looks like you have a fitness level of 37. That means that although Naisith's rule says you could expect to do the hike in 4 hours the fitness correction says to expect about 5 and a half hours.

However, neither Naismith nor Tranter knows how much time you will take enjoying your picnic or stopping to take in the views.

 

[SYates]

There is no easy answer (and,btw, your answer selections are a bit how shall I say, biased perhaps?) For example:

1. Less than three hours / I'm superhuman
2. Three to four hours / I didn't want to stop and enjoy

If the weather is fine any normal-fit person can do the ~8km in 3-4hours, including enjoying the scenery, if the weather is bad ...

Forgot what I just wrote - I misread your original post referring to SJPdP to Orrisson. Orrisson to Roncesvalles is ~18km with the worst climb behind you and a steep decline awaiting you. Kind weather assumed, I would say that 5-7 hours is realistic for a moderately fit person.

Buen Camino, SY

Edit because I didn't read the initial question properly ...

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is a bit over 18 km. Four hours would be a minimum. I would allow myself six hours. You should estimate a time for yourself.

 

[dougfitz]

As @Rick of Rick and Peg politely points out, your question is impossible to answer. However, you might try doing your own calculations using a calculator like the one at http://org.wildwalks.com/bushcraft/technical-stuff/naismith-s-rule-estimate-walking-time.html.

If you are going to use this, you might do some sensitivity testing. For example, the RouteCommunities track for the Orisson-Roncesvalles leg when mapped onto Google Earth suggests this leg is 16.8 km with a climb of 811 m and descent of 661 m. Without any fitness correction, at 4 kph the calculator suggests this would take just over six hours. If @falcon269 is closer to the mark at 18 km, this would add 15 minutes or more.

If you are not fit, you will need to add more. And as has been pointed out already, how much time you think you might add in for stops also needs to be factored in, and none of us will know that now - not even you.

 

[jo webber]

Great video, up, over and down in 3 minutes.
Seeing what the trail looks like was very helpful for me.

 

[MTtoCamino]

So before you plan the nepolian route confirm a reservation at Orrison. Then take all day if needed to get there. If you walk 5k flat my bet is 3-4 hours to walk the ridge up to Orrison. It took me 2.5 hrs like you a bit of ticker recovery but I trained hard here in The Rockies before leaving.
Buen Camino
Keith

 

[Felipe]

I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.

Answering the OP question, I did 6 hs approx from Orisson. But I had walked the three previous hours from SJPP.
Also, in my experience, you should add 20% more time with a backpack
So, with a B+T factor ("B" for backpack, "T" for tiredness) correction, I`d say my time will be 5 1/2.
My rule would be:
* 5 km/h in a flat terrain
* 4 km/h with backpack
* 3 km/h with backpack, in a good, but quite steep road.
Adjusted scientifically for a sixty something walker.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Answering the OP question, I did 6 hs approx from Orisson. But I had walked the three previous hours from SJPP.
Also, in my experience, you should add 20% more time with a backpack
So, with a B+T factor ("B" for backpack, "T" for tiredness) correction, I`d say my time will be 5 1/2.
My rule would be:
* 5 km/h in a flat terrain
* 4 km/h with backpack
* 3 km/h with backpack, in a good, but quite steep road.
Adjusted scientifically for a sixty something walker.

We should start taking bets with the OP's permission as he will have to confirm on arrival @ Orrison

 

[alexwalker]

This is a question that is impossible to answer correctly. It is about attitude. Physically, it's about 8 kms hard climb to Orrison. Next day, it's about 20 kms mostly (easier) climb and then a steep descent to RV. It should take 6-7 hours. But: What is an hour? If you are rushing it, and very fit, yes, you can go (run) fast. And miss out on a beautiful day.

I refrain from further discussions on speed. IMHO; wrong focus on the very first day on the Camino, which is supposed to be, and is there, for you to enjoy and let it open new perspectives to the rest of your life.

Many pilgrims will anyway regret, in front of the cathedral in Santiago, that they rushed a walk and didn't enjoy a journey. The end can be bitter for many, with their newfound insights.. But it is not easy to tell to an eager new/firsttime pilgrim: It must be experienced.

Edit: Not to mention: Focusing on speed and mileage the first 2-3-5 days can put you into serious trouble regarding blisters etc. Many wannabie pilgrims have terminated their Camino during first week due to physical damage. Take it easy and enjoy your big adventure all through.

 

[jo webber]

they rushed a walk and didn't enjoy a journey

This is very good council.
Not just for a Comino, everyday is a journey towards your tomorrow.

 

[AlwynWellington]

Other aspects to consider include:

Weather:
My day had mist/cloud from just before Orrison, evaporating as we started the final descent. For me this set up a lot of anxiety: had I missed a marker, leading to many pauses to check my bearing.

Final descent choice
The Camino community at Saint-Jean strongly advised me to take the road and not the forest. At the decision point only the forest track was marked. But was the road route quicker (easier) as well as safer? But I did enjoy the pilgrim who literally ran past using two trekking poles just after I had started down through the forest.

Stamina
@sarahwillwalk says she can sustain a rate of 4 km per hour for 75 minutes. It is a different kettle of fish to walk, however you adjust it, and however many stops you have, for the day. And to repeat day after day.

Kia kaha (be brave / be strong)

 

[good_old_shoes]

Absolutely agree with Alexwalker, focus should not be on the "how fast", especially the first days.

But, calculating your speed can be important if you're a rather unexperienced walker, simply to make sure you reach your destination in time (for example before it gets dark).

An experienced walker does know already how fast/slow they usually will be, and also how weather/exhaustion/general mood that day ect. will influence their speed. Someone who has not learned that yet needs to test under different circumstances to know for certain.

So, if you have no idea how long it will take you to walk up a mountain, why not simply do a day hike or even half-day hike to find out? Put on your backpack, walk a few kilometers up a steeper hill, and you'll get at least an idea.

(Of course, for that, there need to be hills/mountains not too far away from where you live.)


I do give the advice to find out yourself, if you can, instead of relying on "average" times, because I found out the hard way how spectacularly slow I am uphill. To get an idea on how slow... it took me twice the time most people need to get from Valcarlos to Roncesvalles! Of course, that's an extreme, but I think it's a good example to show that the "average" time you'll read about in guide books ect. can be very different from reality, for some, depending on circumstances.

If I had calculated with the "average" walking speed and tried to walk the Napoleon route in one day, it probably would have ended with a funny thread in this forum, about a pilgrim that was so slow that even though they started at 7am in St Jean, had to camp overnight on the mountain...

[Edit: In order not scare any new pilgrims, maybe I should make clear again that my snail pace is very unusual. For most, 3-4km/h will be a comfortable average, and if you start early enough, St. Jean/Roncesvalles in one day is perfectly doable, as all the people who do it every day prove. My comment is simply meant to give an example for why not to rely only on what others say/write, and encourage to find out things yourself, too. You should be the expert regarding your own body and skills!]

 

[Echidnatow]

There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ

Gracias - what a great video. As a starter on 10 September, I hope my weather is as good as that day. I too, was worried about my fitness, but I'm overnighting in Orrison so I'm really looking forward to 'taking those first steps' now.

 

[wcsjms]

The speed at which we will be traveling at is ... "when we get there we get there". This may sound cavalier, but we are not in a race. So our advice is not worry how long it takes to get there, just get there and we have broken the trek to Roncevalles into two parts...Orisson first then on to Roncevalles. Enjoy your trek !!! Buen Camino !!!!!

 

[SYates]

As long as you arrive before daylight goes away ... Buen Camino, SY

 

[vgen5122]

Hello, all, I'm looking to do my second mini-Camino around the 8th of September (SJPP to Puente dela Reina). Having done Sarria to Santiago a few years ago, I've always wanted to begin in SJPP, and do a little bit over the years to get my Camino "fix" every couple of years.

I am about to embark on a totally separate life journey (unexpectedly moving from UK to Asia), and I thought that doing stage of the Camino (albeit on short notice) will somehow help me accept my new life. I do remember embracing the simplicity of putting my left foot in front of my right, then the other, and somehow walking 29km in one day! I also remember the comfort of my friends, those helpful yellow arrows that led the way. Hopefully I can call on these for my UK to Asia "camino"! But I digress.

Due to the short notice, I have done no training and have only TWO WEEKS left to train. As such, I will be cutting the SJPP to Roncesvalles by staying over one night... in either Orisson or Valcarlos. My preference is Napoleon. Also, I am walking with a companion who feels strongly about seeing the picturesque route. I want the walk to be rewarding for her too, as she is walking mainly to support me. (We are booking our accommodation in advance and getting luggage transferred ahead of us, again, due to me being unable to carry any more than I have to! I would love to be able to forward parts of my body to the next hotel LOL.)

I, on the other hand, need to ascertain if I can make it without getting a heart attack. (I am 183lbs and it takes me 1hr15min to walk 5km on a FLAT city road!). So although I am partial to Orisson, I would like to know how long it took you guys to do the Orisson to Roncesvalles bit. That's roughly a 600m ascent over 14km.

Also, I'm struggling to find a link that directly compares the two routes. Ideally what I would love is links to photos that show the terrain / incline, ideally in videos! Can anyone help? Thanks! Sarah

Let me start by saying that I as a walker am a turtle. As a slow walker I am always stopping to smell the flowers and look at the scenery.
My advise to you is watch the weather and definitely stay in Orrison for the night. Have a great Camino. Buen Camino.

 

[SYates]

Hi fellow turtle! The more I walk on pilgrimage, the slower I get ;-) Buen Camino Peregrina Tortuga! SY

 

[marbuck]

We are often passed by other pilgrims, that does not worry us as we always finish.

 

[whariwharangi]

If you leave SJPdP (or Orisson) shortly after sunrise you will get to Roncesvalles by sunset.

The actual hours don't matter ... just that you have enough sunlight.

If you want to look at your watch all day ... may I suggest stuffing it in the bottom of your pack?

 

[Margaret Butterworth]

It took me 8 hours from Orisson to Roncesvalles in June this year. I had sent my bag with Express Bourricot: a good decision! I arrived at about 5.00 p.m. I later met an American lady who arrived at 7.00 p.m. She told me that the volunteers greeting pilgrims said: "Surely this MUST be the last one!" BTW, I am 71 and she was rather overweight.

 

[jmcarp]

I was 69 at the time and my wife 68. It took us approximately 6 hours from Orisson to Roncesvalles, including rest stops and a break for lunch at the emergency hut. We carried our own backpacks.

 

[sarahwillwalk]

I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule

Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.

So for your hike the Naismith rule says approximately 3 hours for horizontal work and 1 hour for the climb for a total of 4 hours.

Now let's add in a correction for the shape you are in and fatigue over an extended distance (Tranter's corrections.)

You say you can do 5 km in an hour and a quarter on the flat so it would take about 2 and a half hours to do 10 km and the Naismith rule says this would take 2 hours. Looking at the Tranter's corrections chart on the Wikipedia page it looks like you have a fitness level of 37. That means that although Naisith's rule says you could expect to do the hike in 4 hours the fitness correction says to expect about 5 and a half hours.

However, neither Naismith nor Tranter knows how much time you will take enjoying your picnic or stopping to take in the views.

Thank you so much for this!!! On my first camino our days would start at 8am and end at 7pm not due to the length of walks, but the numerous cafes stops where we met so many people. (Plus a good excuse to rest....)

 

[sarahwillwalk]

Gracias - what a great video. As a starter on 10 September, I hope my weather is as good as that day. I too, was worried about my fitness, but I'm overnighting in Orrison so I'm really looking forward to 'taking those first steps' now.

Shame, we will miss you by a day! We aim to start in SJPP and overnight in Orisson on the 9th. If I walk THAT slow, you may overtake me to Roncesvalles LOL

 

[sarahwillwalk]

It took me 8 hours from Orisson to Roncesvalles in June this year. I had sent my bag with Express Bourricot: a good decision! I arrived at about 5.00 p.m. I later met an American lady who arrived at 7.00 p.m. She told me that the volunteers greeting pilgrims said: "Surely this MUST be the last one!" BTW, I am 71 and she was rather overweight.

I am in the "rather overweight" category! I can imagine taking 12 hours or more. I guess I just have to start EARLY. There is something about starting in SJPP and crossing the Pyrenees that I have wanted to do since my first mini-Camino (Sarria to Santiago). If I start early enough and walk as slow as I think I will, then I believe I will meet every pilgrim walking the route from Orisson to Roncesvalles that day, as everyone will overtake me! That's a lot of "buen camino's" to keep me going!

 

[sarahwillwalk]

Hi fellow turtle! The more I walk on pilgrimage, the slower I get ;-) Buen Camino Peregrina Tortuga! SY

Hahahaa, I'm half turtle, half pig First of my species to do the Orisson to Roncesvalles section over 12 hours? Maybe 15? As long as I get there!!!

 

[shellypaul]

Sarah, My first Camino leaving From SJPP on the 8th. Staying in Orrisson that night. Am not fit, am overweight & not trained even one day & have been up & down with apprehension. What was I thinking in my dreams last night. My plan is to keep walking & break as needed. It's hard not to worry! Wishing you Buen Camino & look forward to meeting you if you choose the high route. Shelly

 

[Pat Beals]

I am in the "rather overweight" category! I can imagine taking 12 hours or more. I guess I just have to start EARLY. There is something about starting in SJPP and crossing the Pyrenees that I have wanted to do since my first mini-Camino (Sarria to Santiago). If I start early enough and walk as slow as I think I will, then I believe I will meet every pilgrim walking the route from Orisson to Roncesvalles that day, as everyone will overtake me! That's a lot of "buen camino's" to keep me going!

I am overweight as well. When I walked last year, I stopped overnight at Orrison, had my back pack delivered. The first day took me 5-6 hours. On the second day, I came up with a plan because I didn't want to have a heart attack. (A doctor had died from one just two weeks before). I don't know if this actually helped me physically, but mentally, it did. I walked for 45 minutes, rested 15 minutes. I had also brought with me a small bag of almonds and dried cranberries. I snacked on those. It took me between 8-9 hours the second day.

I am a very slow walker. I love to stop and look at things.

 

[t2andreo]

The first stage, for St. Jean Pied de Port to the albergue in Roncesvalles, is nominally 26 kilometers. The first 8 Km, or so, are brutal for most hikers, experienced or not. I do not know what the actual grade percentage is, but it IS considered to be the toughest portion of the entire Camino Frances. The good thing is that after the first three hours, the cold beer tastes mighty fine whilst sitting on the deck opposite Refuge Orisson. The views are downright awesome.

Plus, having arrived at midday (the walk from St. Jean is only about three hours) , you have plenty of time to "medicate" before sleeping in. Breaking up that first stage is definitely something I recommend strongly.

Certainly, many pilgrims DO make the full 26 KM in one go. Good for them... On my Caminos, four so far, I practice two precepts that have always worked well.

(1) There are days to be smart and days to be brave - splitting day one up into a really tough 8 km, followed by a second 18 km stage is SMART; AND

(2) All things in moderation - there is no point to punishing your body so early on in a Camino. You will have a full month to punish yourself further...

Refuge Orisson (a private albergue) is at the 8 Km mark. If you stayed there, you would have about 18 Km to cover the next day. Most of the terrain is level or down hill, except for an about two km of a gently uphill leading from Orisson to the "border" and another kilometer or so just into Spain.

I typically make it from Orisson in 5 to 6 easy hours. If it is not snowing or raining, this is a fair pace for a fully loaded rucksack, and a 60-something stout fellow who is not, and never was an athlete.

I hope this helps.

 

[SYates]

Also to add if you have the possibility to stay in Orrisson (or Huntto or Valcarlos), you will arrive in Roncesvalles with more energy to visit its interesting sight ;-) Buen Camino, SY

 

[grayland]

The last time I walked the Napoleon route (May 1st) ..it took me a bit under 2 hours to reach Orisson.
However....I had already been walking for over 30 days from LePuy and had walked myself into a pretty good fitness level.

But....it was sad to see the huge crowd of people fearfully heading up the 7 km from St. Jean to Orisson. Only a small number are able to stay there, of course.

They were overpacked, overweight, under fit and worst of all in huge fear of what was to come. The stories and myth about the walk to Roncesvalles weighs heavily (pun!) on people.
It is the first day. It is uphill the 1st 7 km and then is much milder after Orisson.
It is not a "climb over the mountain" as often described.
It is hard but very doable except by the most challenged walkers.
Thousands do it without stopping at Orisson (very limited number of beds).
Old people (including me), overweight people, people not prepared, and those who are carrying way too much.

Try to relax a bit and not carry a load of fear with you. Smile and look forward to your adventure. The arrival in Roncesvalles will be a major moment in your life and you will then be able to add to the myth of the great hardship of
"climbing the mountain"

 

[SYates]

I agree to a certain extent @grayland but it really depends also on the weather. In 2014 I reached the Pyrenees after having walked already 2500km from Prague, so I was as fit as anything but the wind/storm that day was so strong that day that I hardly covered 1km per hour. If there would have been rain/cold also ...

Buen Camino, SY

 

[trafferty]

I am 65 years old and way less fit than I thought with 2 artificial hips. I did the napoleon route beause I wanted to see the views of the pyrenees. It was foggy both days but I did eventually get somewhat of a view when I got above the clouds. It was HARD. It took me almost 11 hrs but I did it. I'm glad I did it but I would never do it again. If I didn't meet 2 angels who were having as hard a time as I did I might still be sitting on the side of that mountain roasting slugs over a camp fire. We got each other over it by laughing our asses off at how pathetic we were.

 

[lorraine123]

Absolutely agree with Alexwalker, focus should not be on the "how fast", especially the first days.

But, calculating your speed can be important if you're a rather unexperienced walker, simply to make sure you reach your destination in time (for example before it gets dark).

An experienced walker does know already how fast/slow they usually will be, and also how weather/exhaustion/general mood that day ect. will influence their speed. Someone who has not learned that yet needs to test under different circumstances to know for certain.

So, if you have no idea how long it will take you to walk up a mountain, why not simply do a day hike or even half-day hike to find out? Put on your backpack, walk a few kilometers up a steeper hill, and you'll get at least an idea.

(Of course, for that, there need to be hills/mountains not too far away from where you live.)


I do give the advice to find out yourself, if you can, instead of relying on "average" times, because I found out the hard way how spectacularly slow I am uphill. To get an idea on how slow... it took me twice the time most people need to get from Valcarlos to Roncesvalles! Of course, that's an extreme, but I think it's a good example to show that the "average" time you'll read about in guide books ect. can be very different from reality, for some, depending on circumstances.

If I had calculated with the "average" walking speed and tried to walk the Napoleon route in one day, it probably would have ended with a funny thread in this forum, about a pilgrim that was so slow that even though they started at 7am in St Jean, had to camp overnight on the mountain...

[Edit: In order not scare any new pilgrims, maybe I should make clear again that my snail pace is very unusual. For most, 3-4km/h will be a comfortable average, and if you start early enough, St. Jean/Roncesvalles in one day is perfectly doable, as all the people who do it every day prove. My comment is simply meant to give an example for why not to rely only on what others say/write, and encourage to find out things yourself, too. You should be the expert regarding your own body and skills!]

Absolutely agree with Alexwalker, focus should not be on the "how fast", especially the first days.

But, calculating your speed can be important if you're a rather unexperienced walker, simply to make sure you reach your destination in time (for example before it gets dark).

An experienced walker does know already how fast/slow they usually will be, and also how weather/exhaustion/general mood that day ect. will influence their speed. Someone who has not learned that yet needs to test under different circumstances to know for certain.

So, if you have no idea how long it will take you to walk up a mountain, why not simply do a day hike or even half-day hike to find out? Put on your backpack, walk a few kilometers up a steeper hill, and you'll get at least an idea.

(Of course, for that, there need to be hills/mountains not too far away from where you live.)


I do give the advice to find out yourself, if you can, instead of relying on "average" times, because I found out the hard way how spectacularly slow I am uphill. To get an idea on how slow... it took me twice the time most people need to get from Valcarlos to Roncesvalles! Of course, that's an extreme, but I think it's a good example to show that the "average" time you'll read about in guide books ect. can be very different from reality, for some, depending on circumstances.

If I had calculated with the "average" walking speed and tried to walk the Napoleon route in one day, it probably would have ended with a funny thread in this forum, about a pilgrim that was so slow that even though they started at 7am in St Jean, had to camp overnight on the mountain...

[Edit: In order not scare any new pilgrims, maybe I should make clear again that my snail pace is very unusual. For most, 3-4km/h will be a comfortable average, and if you start early enough, St. Jean/Roncesvalles in one day is perfectly doable, as all the people who do it every day prove. My comment is simply meant to give an example for why not to rely only on what others say/write, and encourage to find out things yourself, too. You should be the expert regarding your own body and skills!][/

Is anyone starting walk Monday 29 th August
I land in Biarritz airport scared

 

[jeet]

There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ

Thank you for this. Very helpful.
Jeet

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The first stage, for St. Jean Pied de Port to the albergue in Roncesvalles, is nominally 26 kilometers. The first 8 Km, or so, are brutal for most hikers, experienced or not. I do not know what the actual grade percentage is, but it IS considered to be the toughest portion of the entire Camino Frances.

St. Jean to Orisson is about 630 m elevation change in 7.8 km or a grade of 8.1%

On the Valcarlos route Ganecoleta to Puerto Ibaneta has about a 650 m elevation change in 7.4 km or a grade of 8.8%

 

[offtrail1]

I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule

Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.

So for your hike the Naismith rule says approximately 3 hours for horizontal work and 1 hour for the climb for a total of 4 hours.

Now let's add in a correction for the shape you are in and fatigue over an extended distance (Tranter's corrections.)

You say you can do 5 km in an hour and a quarter on the flat so it would take about 2 and a half hours to do 10 km and the Naismith rule says this would take 2 hours. Looking at the Tranter's corrections chart on the Wikipedia page it looks like you have a fitness level of 37. That means that although Naisith's rule says you could expect to do the hike in 4 hours the fitness correction says to expect about 5 and a half hours.

However, neither Naismith nor Tranter knows how much time you will take enjoying your picnic or stopping to take in the views.

Also bear in mind that Naismith was an optimist!

 

[Albertagirl]

I walked to Orisson and on to Roncesvalles the next day last fall. I was 67, somewhat chubby, in good health except for arthritis, and I don't train. My pack was probably close to 10 kilos (I didn't weigh it). I had no trouble at all. I just walked my own pace and enjoyed the scenery. I think that a lot of the advantage of training comes through learning what you are comfortable doing. I am an experienced backpacker and generally carry about twice my camino packweight on a backcountry trail. Walking up to Orisson, I just took it easy, walked slowly, and knew that I could do it. Walking down the hill to Roncesvalles was more challenging: steep and slippery. Take it easy, place each foot carefully and use a staff or walking poles for balance and support. You have been walking since you were two. You can do it.

 

[M. McNabb]

I'm going to work out the time using some travel estimation tools that are explained at this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule

Naismith's rule says to allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.

So for your hike the Naismith rule says approximately 3 hours for horizontal work and 1 hour for the climb for a total of 4 hours.

Now let's add in a correction for the shape you are in and fatigue over an extended distance (Tranter's corrections.)

You say you can do 5 km in an hour and a quarter on the flat so it would take about 2 and a half hours to do 10 km and the Naismith rule says this would take 2 hours. Looking at the Tranter's corrections chart on the Wikipedia page it looks like you have a fitness level of 37. That means that although Naisith's rule says you could expect to do the hike in 4 hours the fitness correction says to expect about 5 and a half hours.

However, neither Naismith nor Tranter knows how much time you will take enjoying your picnic or stopping to take in the views.

Love the math!!!!

 

[M. McNabb]

This is a question that is impossible to answer correctly. It is about attitude. Physically, it's about 8 kms hard climb to Orrison. Next day, it's about 20 kms mostly (easier) climb and then a steep descent to RV. It should take 6-7 hours. But: What is an hour? If you are rushing it, and very fit, yes, you can go (run) fast. And miss out on a beautiful day.

I refrain from further discussions on speed. IMHO; wrong focus on the very first day on the Camino, which is supposed to be, and is there, for you to enjoy and let it open new perspectives to the rest of your life.

Many pilgrims will anyway regret, in front of the cathedral in Santiago, that they rushed a walk and didn't enjoy a journey. The end can be bitter for many, with their newfound insights.. But it is not easy to tell to an eager new/firsttime pilgrim: It must be experienced.

Edit: Not to mention: Focusing on speed and mileage the first 2-3-5 days can put you into serious trouble regarding blisters etc. Many wannabie pilgrims have terminated their Camino during first week due to physical damage. Take it easy and enjoy your big adventure all through.

Well said, and my plan for the camino

 

[alexwalker]

A Danish poet (Piet Hein) once said, over a newly-filled grave: "So this was where you were going, you hasty one..."

Enjoy life. Do not rush.

 

[BiancaQ]

It took me 9h from orisson to roncevalles!!!!! Started at SJPdP. It was hot. I was all by myself. I didn't have enough water and it was just so hard. The views are amazing though.

If i was to do this again. I would send my back pack ahead and stay overnight at orisson.

Go slow and steady. You'll make it.

 

[BARBARA Souter]

There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ

Fantastic! Looking forward to ot m

There is a time lapse video at youtube com/watch?v=bZNrSdO33QQ

 

[Susan Peacock]

Hello, all, I'm looking to do my second mini-Camino around the 8th of September (SJPP to Puente dela Reina). Having done Sarria to Santiago a few years ago, I've always wanted to begin in SJPP, and do a little bit over the years to get my Camino "fix" every couple of years.

I am about to embark on a totally separate life journey (unexpectedly moving from UK to Asia), and I thought that doing stage of the Camino (albeit on short notice) will somehow help me accept my new life. I do remember embracing the simplicity of putting my left foot in front of my right, then the other, and somehow walking 29km in one day! I also remember the comfort of my friends, those helpful yellow arrows that led the way. Hopefully I can call on these for my UK to Asia "camino"! But I digress.

Due to the short notice, I have done no training and have only TWO WEEKS left to train. As such, I will be cutting the SJPP to Roncesvalles by staying over one night... in either Orisson or Valcarlos. My preference is Napoleon. Also, I am walking with a companion who feels strongly about seeing the picturesque route. I want the walk to be rewarding for her too, as she is walking mainly to support me. (We are booking our accommodation in advance and getting luggage transferred ahead of us, again, due to me being unable to carry any more than I have to! I would love to be able to forward parts of my body to the next hotel LOL.)

I, on the other hand, need to ascertain if I can make it without getting a heart attack. (I am 183lbs and it takes me 1hr15min to walk 5km on a FLAT city road!). So although I am partial to Orisson, I would like to know how long it took you guys to do the Orisson to Roncesvalles bit. That's roughly a 600m ascent over 14km.

Also, I'm struggling to find a link that directly compares the two routes. Ideally what I would love is links to photos that show the terrain / incline, ideally in videos! Can anyone help? Thanks! Sarah

Sarah,

You didn't say how many days you are allowing to walk to Puente la Reina, but you will definitely find this section (SJPdP to Puente la Reina) more difficult than Sarria to Santiago. It is definitely doable but take your time, take breaks and don't try to put too many KM's in a day. Walk to your fitness level. Stopping at Orisson is not only a welcome physical rest, but you will find it a delightful time spend with other pilgrims. We made lasting friendships at the communal dinner. Be sure to have them make you a sandwich for the next days walk to Roncesvalles. There are no towns or places to buy food along the way except for a possible food truck that sells drinks, cheese and fruit. (It was there last fall when I walked but not on my spring camino.)
Also, many pilgrims underestimate the next days walk into Zubiri. If possible I would not plan to walk further and note that both times I was there, the town was completo (no beds available) by 3 p.m.. The next day(s) walk into Pamplona is easier. Although, both times I broke it up into 2 days as I wished to stay in the special Albergue in Zabaldika run by Sisters of the Sacred Heart. If you are seeking a spiritual experience this was the best of the Camino. They do not take reservations, and only have 18 beds, but if you leave Zubiri on the early side you will be there in plenty of time to get a bed.
Also note that your walk includes the climb and descent to/from Alto del Perdon. The descent being very rocky. I highly suggest that you have two poles to protect you from injury. These will be helpful for your entire walk and help ease the burden on your knees and hips.
While you have some challenges, this section is beautiful and if you just take your time, listen to your body and rest every 5 or 6 kim's you can have a rewarding and beautiful Camino.

Buen Camino!!

 

[sarahwillwalk]

Sarah,

You didn't say how many days you are allowing to walk to Puente la Reina, but you will definitely find this section (SJPdP to Puente la Reina) more difficult than Sarria to Santiago. It is definitely doable but take your time, take breaks and don't try to put too many KM's in a day. Walk to your fitness level. Stopping at Orisson is not only a welcome physical rest, but you will find it a delightful time spend with other pilgrims. We made lasting friendships at the communal dinner. Be sure to have them make you a sandwich for the next days walk to Roncesvalles. There are no towns or places to buy food along the way except for a possible food truck that sells drinks, cheese and fruit. (It was there last fall when I walked but not on my spring camino.)
Also, many pilgrims underestimate the next days walk into Zubiri. If possible I would not plan to walk further and note that both times I was there, the town was completo (no beds available) by 3 p.m.. The next day(s) walk into Pamplona is easier. Although, both times I broke it up into 2 days as I wished to stay in the special Albergue in Zabaldika run by Sisters of the Sacred Heart. If you are seeking a spiritual experience this was the best of the Camino. They do not take reservations, and only have 18 beds, but if you leave Zubiri on the early side you will be there in plenty of time to get a bed.
Also note that your walk includes the climb and descent to/from Alto del Perdon. The descent being very rocky. I highly suggest that you have two poles to protect you from injury. These will be helpful for your entire walk and help ease the burden on your knees and hips.
While you have some challenges, this section is beautiful and if you just take your time, listen to your body and rest every 5 or 6 kim's you can have a rewarding and beautiful Camino.

Buen Camino!!

Thank you, Susan! Appreciate it!

 

[VNwalking]

Good luck in that transition, Sarah. It's a big one.
And you have the perfect way to work with it!

starting in SJPP and crossing the Pyrenees

Both the Valcarlos and napoleon routes 'cross the Pyrenees'...but they're not at all like the rugged mountains futher East. More like foothills. Big foothills. So either way is a challenge.

St. Jean to Orisson is about 630 m elevation change in 7.8 km or a grade of 8.1%
On the Valcarlos route Ganecoleta to Puerto Ibaneta has about a 650 m elevation change in 7.4 km or a grade of 8.8%

The 7kms up to Ibaneta on the Valcarlos route are really 'Interesting.' Now I see why, Rick. Thank you for posting the math.
It is long and steep...but totally gorgeous.

I will be cutting the SJPP to Roncesvalles by staying over one night... in either Orisson or Valcarlos. My preference is Napoleon. Also, I am walking with a companion who feels strongly about seeing the picturesque route.

OK. So here is the myth: the Napoleon Route is more scenic and more authentic than the Valcarlos Route.
Not at all! Totally untrue. Frankly it's a myth that badly needs debunking.
But the Valcarlos route is beautiful in a different way than the Napoleon. That steep bit goes through mossy forest of Beech and conifers. It's not big on views except as you get to the top, but is very special.
And the town of Valcarlos has good accommodation--with the added advantage of being a little further along, so the second day is a not as long as if you stay at Orrison.
So if you're concerned about your fitness, do consider going this way.

 

[JeepsNRoses]

If I didn't meet 2 angels who were having as hard a time as I did I might still be sitting on the side of that mountain roasting slugs over a camp fire. We got each other over it by laughing our asses off at how pathetic we were.

@trafferty I am going to remember this when I am trudging uphill wondering what the heck I was thinking when I decided vacation = Camino.

After seeing so many Camino movie frames dedicated to slugs, and now with the image of your campfire pinchos firmly planted, I cannot help but wonder if they all taste the same or does the taste vary by color? Food for thought I suppose.

 

[newbie;frenchway]

As @Rick of Rick and Peg politely points out, your question is impossible to answer. However, you might try doing your own calculations using a calculator like the one at http://org.wildwalks.com/bushcraft/technical-stuff/naismith-s-rule-estimate-walking-time.html.

If you are going to use this, you might do some sensitivity testing. For example, the RouteCommunities track for the Orisson-Roncesvalles leg when mapped onto Google Earth suggests this leg is 16.8 km with a climb of 811 m and descent of 661 m. Without any fitness correction, at 4 kph the calculator suggests this would take just over six hours. If @falcon269 is closer to the mark at 18 km, this would add 15 minutes or more.

If you are not fit, you will need to add more. And as has been pointed out already, how much time you think you might add in for stops also needs to be factored in, and none of us will know that now - not even you.

such a shame theres no eyeroll emojii here!!