Has anyone tried Matador ultralight packs?

[Prentiss Riddle]

I'm ultralight-curious and clicked on a Facebook ad for this company's line of ultralight backpacks. Has anyone tried them?

https://matadorup.com/collections/ultralight-bags

The Freerain32 particularly caught my eye because 32 liters is my preferred size. I love my Deuter ACT Trail 32 (now discontinued) but the Freerain32 weighs only 10.6 oz (0.3 kg), 2 pounds less than my Deuter. And I hate to say it, but the Deuter leaks in heavy rain.

Matador ultralights also seem to be priced much better than other ultralight packs.

But I know not to believe everything I see advertised on Facebook. Does anyone have any experience with the Matador line? How are they for durability, design, and comfort?

 

[Prentiss Riddle]

After posting the above I found this review video. It answered some of my questions. Any ultralight pilgrims want to comment on the features in this video, even if you haven't tried Matador? I'm particularly curious about how its frameless design and minimalist belt and straps compare with other ultralight packs. Would it still be comfortable after a day on the Camino?

 

[David]

Interesting. For me it would be a no ... very light, true, but that material is 100% waterproof nylon so there will be a whole panel resting against the back so the back would really sweat. Being a thin bag without a structure I think it could be difficult to pack so that it isn't lumpy against the back.
The bottle holders seem very thin - would they last? - and a summer Camino would mean two big water bottles for me. The shoulder straps are straight, no curve at all, so once the sternum strap is fixed they would dig in along one seam .... finally, the pack length is given as 19 inches overall but my pack size - to allow proper hip fitting and clearance at the shoulders - is 21 inches harness - so although an interesting design - not for me.

Oh! and it is black ... imagine putting a salad sandwich inside it for lunch and then walking at high 30's C for a few hours!

 

[David]

Merely as a comparison - adding to my last post - this is a Technicals Glencoe 28. Has all the features and style of a regular backpack, including good back design, proper harness, etc, but is cheap - £35, about 50USD? .. and weighs just 830 grams, including the rain cover hidden in the base, so about 800gms without it. It extends under the lid so is easily 32 comparable.
I too am ultra-light curious but they all seem to fail at the comfort level (for me) - so the Glencoe.



See here - Technicals Glencoe 28L at Millets

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

[Total aside] Exciting to know that Black's still exists, though they don't seem to have their own brand anymore.

I have a Black's of Greenock Tinkertent, Egyptian cotton, that was my dad's when he did geological exploration here in Western Canada in the early 1950s. A treasured possession and still useable one-person tent, though a bit fragile.

"In 1861 Thomas Black set up his own sail making business on the Clyde River. Using the same materials and expertise he had developed equipping boats and ships, he deftly turned his hand to crafting tents and shelters that epitomised the quality and workmanship we still stand for today."

 

[David]

[Total aside] Exciting to know that Black's still exists, though they don't seem to have their own brand anymore.

I have a Black's of Greenock Tinkertent, Egyptian cotton, that was my dad's when he did geological exploration here in Western Canada in the early 1950s. A treasured possession and still useable one-person tent, though a bit fragile.

"In 1861 Thomas Black set up his own sail making business on the Clyde River. Using the same materials and expertise he had developed equipping boats and ships, he deftly turned his hand to crafting tents and shelters that epitomised the quality and workmanship we still stand for today."

True! I changed the hyper-link to the Millets as it was a simpler copy and paste - I wonder if Millets owns Blacks now as they are identical online. Back in the day Blacks was my go to - before the chains appeared such as Go Outdoors, Decathlon (all their packs seem quite heavy to me), and Mountain Warehouse. My family come from the Clyde (Clydebank) too!! Interestingly, the Glencoe is sold in all those outlets - except Decathlon who only stock their own brand - so it isn't an unknown poor cheapo import.

 

[chinacat]

but is cheap - £35, about 50USD? .. and weighs just 830 grams,

This is the sale price.
It was originally £75.00.
And In the Q&A, the weight is given as 520 gr.

If anyone is in the market for a pack atm, this looks like a great buy!
Blacks sale could end any day.

 

[David]

This is the sale price.
It was originally £75.00.
And In the Q&A, the weight is given as 520 gr.

If anyone is in the market for a pack atm, this looks like a great buy!
Blacks sale could end any day.

Yes - the weight is given as 520gms at all outlets but that is a mistake as it is 830gms with the rain cover (I have one here and weighed it myself) - so a poncho user could leave the cover behind and go down to 800. Is very comfortable with a back long enough for me.
It was originally £70 last year but all remaining outlets are now selling them at £38 or £35. I have a feeling that when they are gone they are gone as they aren't on amazon anymore .. must be the last stock I guess?

Go Outdoors also has a few at £35 - https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15986837/technicals-glencoe-28-litre-daysack-15986837

and there is one used on Ebay uk.

I sold my Osprey 35 as it weighed 1.34 kilos to go for the Glencoe at 800 - not as superbly comfortable as an Osprey of course, but a good trade-off for me as it is still comfy.

 

[chinacat]

A bargain!!

I was tempted but I do not need another pack!
(keep telling yourself that!!! )

 

[David]

Going back to the thread - @Prentiss - this is a UK ultralight backpack website - gives some good photos, weights, prices (English pounds) - good for comparison .. though for me, well, I want a really comfortable harness and a shaped back so go a little heavier (being an old fart who likes his comfort - would take my armchair and slippers if I could ).

Here the link - https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/rucksacks-c19/all-rucksacks-c134

 

[henrythedog]

A bargain!!

I was tempted but I do not need another pack!
(keep telling yourself that!!! )

I had to buy a very big bag to store my rucksack collection in.

In my expensive as well as extensive experience ‘ultralight’ tends to mean ‘unstructured and without any kind of internal frame’ which in turn means ‘horrendously sweaty back’

 

[Prentiss Riddle]

@David, thanks for the thoughtful replies. This gives me lots to think about.

That Technicals Glencoe looks like a great deal, but unfortunately Millets doesn't ship outside the UK. (I have another interest, modular synthesizers, where to my surprise I learned that UK retailers who subtract VAT for US customers are sometimes competitive with US retailers, even when you add in shipping.)

Now I'm a bit annoyed at Deuter for weighing so much more than a similarly fully-featured backpack like the Glencoe. However, I should compare apples to apples: my wife's 28L Deuter is a better comparison to the Glencoe than my 32L Deuter. Hers weighs only 12 oz / 340 g more than the Glencoe. Still.

 

[Anhalter]

Counting myself as "one of those ultralighters" here's what i think of that pack:

Pro:
- From what i read, it seems rather waterproof
- For that, the price is rather low
- The weight is rather low aswell
- it seems to have the neccessary features of a packpack

Con:
- It is a technical ascent pack, not a hiking pack. Therefore it has some features that you don't need on, say, a camino
- It lacks some features i personally like

Neutral:
- The material could work, but there is better stuff out there. Which is more expensive
- There are packs, made of better material, that have features geared more towards hiking/camino. But usually they are more expensive.

Conclusion:
I have not tested that pack and my personal experience is not that wide as with others around (davebugg etc). I would personally not use that pack. If i want a cheap and light pack, theres options on Amazon and Decathlon that likely work better towards hiking. If money is less of an issue, theres even better options. The waterproofing might be nice, but personally, i don't have that as a grade 1 priority in my backpacks.

 

[Prentiss Riddle]

Counting myself as "one of those ultralighters" here's what i think of that pack:

Pro:
- From what i read, it seems rather waterproof
- For that, the price is rather low
- The weight is rather low aswell
- it seems to have the neccessary features of a packpack

Con:
- It is a technical ascent pack, not a hiking pack. Therefore it has some features that you don't need on, say, a camino
- It lacks some features i personally like

Neutral:
- The material could work, but there is better stuff out there. Which is more expensive
- There are packs, made of better material, that have features geared more towards hiking/camino. But usually they are more expensive.

Conclusion:
I have not tested that pack and my personal experience is not that wide as with others around (davebugg etc). I would personally not use that pack. If i want a cheap and light pack, theres options on Amazon and Decathlon that likely work better towards hiking. If money is less of an issue, theres even better options. The waterproofing might be nice, but personally, i don't have that as a grade 1 priority in my backpacks.

Thank you for the detailed response! You make me think of more questions.

What makes this a technical ascent pack, not a hiking pack? What are the unnecessary features?

What are some specific Amazon and Decathlon packs which are cheap, light, and better suited to the camino?

Vielen Dank!

 

[Colette Z]

I'm ultralight-curious and clicked on a Facebook ad for this company's line of ultralight backpacks. Has anyone tried them?

https://matadorup.com/collections/ultralight-bags

The Freerain32 particularly caught my eye because 32 liters is my preferred size. I love my Deuter ACT Trail 32 (now discontinued) but the Freerain32 weighs only 10.6 oz (0.3 kg), 2 pounds less than my Deuter. And I hate to say it, but the Deuter leaks in heavy rain.

Matador ultralights also seem to be priced much better than other ultralight packs.

But I know not to believe everything I see advertised on Facebook. Does anyone have any experience with the Matador line? How are they for durability, design, and comfort?

View attachment 104977

I’m nervously awaiting the arrival of my Gossamer Gear Kumo 36L next Tuesday shipped from Texas to Canada for a hefty shipping plus duty fee . If I didn’t choose the right size I may regret buying online.

I’m planning to travel to Portugal/Spain for 6 months with just enough in my pack that I can carry to escape another Canadian winter. Although no structured back system, the GG Kumo 36L is used by many through trail hikers and packs a lot. It comes in at almost 350 gm lighter than my 900 gm Millet Venom 30L meaning I can carry a few more clothing essentials. My target pack weight fully loaded is 5.5 kg. I liked the Gregory 30L abut weighs 915 gm so no benefit. I’ll post my joy vs disappointment next week after the GG Kumo arrives.

 

[Susie S]

I'm ultralight-curious and clicked on a Facebook ad for this company's line of ultralight backpacks. Has anyone tried them?

https://matadorup.com/collections/ultralight-bags

The Freerain32 particularly caught my eye because 32 liters is my preferred size. I love my Deuter ACT Trail 32 (now discontinued) but the Freerain32 weighs only 10.6 oz (0.3 kg), 2 pounds less than my Deuter. And I hate to say it, but the Deuter leaks in heavy rain.

Matador ultralights also seem to be priced much better than other ultralight packs.

But I know not to believe everything I see advertised on Facebook. Does anyone have any experience with the Matador line? How are they for durability, design, and comfort?

View attachment 104977

Hi...like you, my curiosity continues for using ultralight equipment. I recently received my gossamer gear UL pack (G4-20) and I can't wait to use it. I've used osprey on all other camino's and even with the air zone design a sweaty back is not entirely unavoidable. I chose the G4-20 because of the padded straps, kangaroo pouch and roll top closure. It feels great on, and I'm keen to keep the rest of my kit light as the next trip is Le Puy to SdC. Happy hunting for your own UL pack. There's plenty to choose from .

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

Has anyone used one of these ULA packs? They come very highly rated. And for a bit more money, you can customize them almost infinitely, since they are made to order anyway.

CDT

The CDT is our lightest, most basic, full-sized backpack. With just over 50 liters of available space, the CDT is the largest of our two frameless packs.

www.ula-equipment.com

Discovered from this set of reviews...

The 6 Best Ultralight Backpacks of 2024

Ready to join the ultralight revolution? Over the past decade, our thru-hiking experts have tested more than 50 of the best ultralight backpacks around. In...

www.outdoorgearlab.com

 

[trecile]

Has anyone used one of these ULA packs? They come very highly rated. And for a bit more money, you can customize them almost infinitely, since they are made to order anyway.

CDT

The CDT is our lightest, most basic, full-sized backpack. With just over 50 liters of available space, the CDT is the largest of our two frameless packs.

www.ula-equipment.com

Lots of pilgrims use ULA packs. I know a few people who are very happy with them. I'm sure that @davebugg probably knows quite a bit about them.

 

[Colette Z]

Has anyone used one of these ULA packs? They come very highly rated. And for a bit more money, you can customize them almost infinitely, since they are made to order anyway.

CDT

The CDT is our lightest, most basic, full-sized backpack. With just over 50 liters of available space, the CDT is the largest of our two frameless packs.

www.ula-equipment.com

Discovered from this set of reviews...

The 6 Best Ultralight Backpacks of 2024

Ready to join the ultralight revolution? Over the past decade, our thru-hiking experts have tested more than 50 of the best ultralight backpacks around. In...

www.outdoorgearlab.com

My 36L Gossamer Kumo (weighs 550gm) arrived today, have yet to open the box. I think you really shouldn’t need a 54L pack for the Camino.

 

[davebugg]

Has anyone used one of these ULA packs?

My 36L Gossamer Kumo (weighs 550gm) arrived today, have yet to open the box. I think you really shouldn’t need a 54L pack for the Camino.

Both of those backpacks are well designed and at an excellent capacity to weight ratio. I find them both to have excellent usability and quality of manufacture. There is one caution that I would mention in terms of user expectations.

Both of the backpacks are 'frameless' designs. Both obtain their rigidity to maintain their vertical shape from the backpad. This means that there is no supporting frame to help with the load transfer from the bag to the hipbelt. The hipbelts on both are both functional and comfortable, but they have a limitation.

When I have tested both backpacks, I found that 15 to 17 pounds was where the balance and comfort level was at its limit. Both backpack's specs state a higher range for weight limits, but in practical terms a lower weight limit works better. Put any more weight into them and you will not be able to ignore the presence of the backpacks on your back.

These are not the backpacks to use if does not wish to count ounces and grams. The lighter the load, the better to feel and the comfort level.

Comfort aside, I have pushed the stated weight capacity beyond the stated specs of those backpacks as part of my job to look for weaknesses and flaws in the materials and construction. At 50 pounds of load in the CDT, there was no evidence of stresses to the bag, the shoulder harness or the hipbelt. Due to its smaller capacity, the Kumo had to settle for a 42 pound load it fared just as well.

There are some methods to increase the stiffness and support of those backpacks. And for the Kumo, if it hasn't been done already, swap out the included sitpad back panel with the one below. Your sweaty back will thank you for it:

Air Flow SitLight Camp Seat

Designed for use with our signature PVT Packs - Mariposa 60 & Gorilla 50. This upgraded Air Flow Sit Pad doubles as a back panel padding for our packs and an ultralight camp chair. Available in 3 sizes. These are only compatible with our new Mariposa 60 and Gorilla 50 PVT packs. For your small...

www.gossamergear.com

 

[Colette Z]

Both of those backpacks are well designed and at an excellent capacity to weight ratio. I find them both to have excellent usability and quality of manufacture. There is one caution that I would mention in terms of user expectations.

Both of the backpacks are 'frameless' designs. Both obtain their rigidity to maintain their vertical shape from the backpad. This means that there is no supporting frame to help with the load transfer from the bag to the hipbelt. The hipbelts on both are both functional and comfortable, but they have a limitation.

When I have tested both backpacks, I found that 15 to 17 pounds was where the balance and comfort level was at its limit. Both backpack's specs state a higher range for weight limits, but in practical terms a lower weight limit works better. Put any more weight into them and you will not be able to ignore the presence of the backpacks on your back.

These are not the backpacks to use if does not wish to count ounces and grams. The lighter the load, the better to feel and the comfort level.

Comfort aside, I have pushed the stated weight capacity beyond the stated specs of those backpacks as part of my job to look for weaknesses and flaws in the materials and construction. At 50 pounds of load in the CDT, there was no evidence of stresses to the bag, the shoulder harness or the hipbelt. Due to its smaller capacity, the Kumo had to settle for a 42 pound load it fared just as well.

There are some methods to increase the stiffness and support of those backpacks. And for the Kumo, if it hasn't been done already, swap out the included sitpad back panel with the one below. Your sweaty back will thank you for it:

Air Flow SitLight Camp Seat

Designed for use with our signature PVT Packs - Mariposa 60 & Gorilla 50. This upgraded Air Flow Sit Pad doubles as a back panel padding for our packs and an ultralight camp chair. Available in 3 sizes. These are only compatible with our new Mariposa 60 and Gorilla 50 PVT packs. For your small...

www.gossamergear.com

Thanks @davebugg, as I stated earlier I limit my pack to 5-6 kg so well under the upper Kumo suggested weight plus I walk in winter months so not overly concerned with a hot back. The GG airflow mat you mention is out of stock currently so I’ll test with the crate mat supplied then adjust as needed. My 30L Millet has only 2 vertical sponge pads on the back and I don’t find it a negative. For me it’s about every gram or else I have to pack forward.

 

[Anhalter]

@Colette Z I got one thing to add to davebugg's excellent post: Another thing that those packs don't like is beeing packed to loosely (lightly?). Aside from the panel, which does not give a lot of "rigidity" the main stability comes from the packs contents itself. If there is not enough stuff inside the pack, it will sag. The Kumo offers some means of compressing the pack, but not much, and it's only for the top half of the pack. When i was doing my camino with the Kumo's lighter brother, the Murmur, my main complaint with the pack was, that i was just not carrying enough volume inside of it to prevent it from sagging. When i was testing it at home, and did not have my camino gear, i was using some pillows to stuff it out, which made for a more comfortable feel compared to what i was experiencing when walking in spain.
Still, it was a great pack, and i think the Kumo is even better (screw those 300g more, the features and added padding are likely worth it), but you might want to keep this in mind when packing your things for the camino.

You might also want to experiment where to put what item. Clothes and sleeping bag tend to be much volume, little weight, as to toiletries and electronics are usually more dense and pointy...

 

[David]

I agree with most of the above posts - except, would add, just my personal opinion ... sure, you can get a 350 gms to 500 gms pack, but then add on the seating pad to stiffen the back. The downside is a pack that isn't really 'strolling' comfortable for a multi-week Camino. Sweaty back, not enough padding on harness, chest and hips. Missing zipped pockets and rain cover.
For just 500gms more you can get a regular lightweight pack, shaped, good back, excellent padded harness, all those pockets and pouches we like to have, and also bladder ready if you go that way.

I can see the virtue of super-light if you are fast scrambing up a mountain for a day, sure - but for a 35 day Camino?

Although it is my choice of pack at the moment, the Technicals Glencoe 28 isn't the only lightweight 'proper' backpack out there - and really, what is the trade off? The Glencoe is 830 gms, so, 500gms? Half a litre of water? The fleece you don't really need? Getting rid of the sleeping bag you use and buying one 500 gms lighter?

So, for me, a lightweight (under a kilo) regular 'proper' rucksack, every time.

 

[Anhalter]

@David Did my camino in May/June, and apart from the sagging issue, my complaints with an ultralight pack were few. Especially the issue of "sweaty back" seems to be more of a theoretical thing. Sure, there was sweat, but not overly much that it was an issue. (And i am a fast hiker, usually results in more than average sweat).
Another thing to add: My memory might be wrong, but people with more conventional backpacks did not seem to have less issues with sweat on their backs...
As for the other points: My 350g pack was labled "water resistant". I did never encounter any moisture inside it. The new pack, slightly heavier, but with more features is supposed to be even more waterproof. So why carry a rain cover? Thats just useless weight.

Have to run to an appointment now, but to conclude: Those packs are perfectly fine for a 35 day trip. Or a 100 day trip... just look at what some of the thruhikers in the US are using...

 

[David]

@David Did my camino in May/June, and apart from the sagging issue, my complaints with an ultralight pack were few. Especially the issue of "sweaty back" seems to be more of a theoretical thing. Sure, there was sweat, but not overly much that it was an issue. (And i am a fast hiker, usually results in more than average sweat).
Another thing to add: My memory might be wrong, but people with more conventional backpacks did not seem to have less issues with sweat on their backs...
As for the other points: My 350g pack was labled "water resistant". I did never encounter any moisture inside it. The new pack, slightly heavier, but with more features is supposed to be even more waterproof. So why carry a rain cover? Thats just useless weight.

Have to run to an appointment now, but to conclude: Those packs are perfectly fine for a 35 day trip. Or a 100 day trip... just look at what some of the thruhikers in the US are using...

Ah - the difference between us on this, Ann - is that you have used one and I haven't!! I bow to your experience.

 

[Colette Z]

@Colette Z I got one thing to add to davebugg's excellent post: Another thing that those packs don't like is beeing packed to loosely (lightly?). Aside from the panel, which does not give a lot of "rigidity" the main stability comes from the packs contents itself. If there is not enough stuff inside the pack, it will sag. The Kumo offers some means of compressing the pack, but not much, and it's only for the top half of the pack. When i was doing my camino with the Kumo's lighter brother, the Murmur, my main complaint with the pack was, that i was just not carrying enough volume inside of it to prevent it from sagging. When i was testing it at home, and did not have my camino gear, i was using some pillows to stuff it out, which made for a more comfortable feel compared to what i was experiencing when walking in spain.
Still, it was a great pack, and i think the Kumo is even better (screw those 300g more, the features and added padding are likely worth it), but you might want to keep this in mind when packing your things for the camino.

You might also want to experiment where to put what item. Clothes and sleeping bag tend to be much volume, little weight, as to toiletries and electronics are usually more dense and pointy...

Great to hear from you after using the murmur which I considered but the Kumo strap and waistband mesh pockets and the huge outside pockets are big pluses. I hear what your saying about filling the pack and content placement so will experiment. It feels so light in keeping with its name Kumo (Japanese for “cloud”). My millet 30L is not as structured as the Osprey, Gregory or deuter snacks so I did learn to load my Millet to ensure comfort. Plus I think the thru hikers are carrying a lot and believe their long distant hikes are killers vs any Camino. Appreciate your and the others input. Change is good.

 

[Colette Z]

I agree with most of the above posts - except, would add, just my personal opinion ... sure, you can get a 350 gms to 500 gms pack, but then add on the seating pad to stiffen the back. The downside is a pack that isn't really 'strolling' comfortable for a multi-week Camino. Sweaty back, not enough padding on harness, chest and hips. Missing zipped pockets and rain cover.
For just 500gms more you can get a regular lightweight pack, shaped, good back, excellent padded harness, all those pockets and pouches we like to have, and also bladder ready if you go that way.

I can see the virtue of super-light if you are fast scrambing up a mountain for a day, sure - but for a 35 day Camino?

Although it is my choice of pack at the moment, the Technicals Glencoe 28 isn't the only lightweight 'proper' backpack out there - and really, what is the trade off? The Glencoe is 830 gms, so, 500gms? Half a litre of water? The fleece you don't really need? Getting rid of the sleeping bag you use and buying one 500 gms lighter?

So, for me, a lightweight (under a kilo) regular 'proper' rucksack, every time.

Thanks David, my reason for finding weight savings is because I’m traveling with just my pack for 6 months so I want to take more items than my usual “1 change of clothes” hence I chose to not invest in a lighter more expensive sleeping bag (vs using a silk liner + quilt blanket) but invest in a new pack and I tried on all kinds in past months. The newly arrived Gossamer Kumo is super light I don’t even feel it on my back although the crate foam back insert will take some getting used to. But again,I’m a winter pilgrim so don’t expect to be sweating too much.

 

[David]

Thanks David, my reason for finding weight savings is because I’m traveling with just my pack for 6 months so I want to take more items than my usual “1 change of clothes” hence I chose to not invest in a lighter more expensive sleeping bag (vs using a silk liner + quilt blanket) but invest in a new pack and I tried on all kinds in past months. The newly arrived Gossamer Kumo is super light I don’t even feel it on my back although the crate foam back insert will take some getting used to. But again,I’m a winter pilgrim so don’t expect to be sweating too much.

I do understand. My son - when younger, unmarried, unchildrened! - went to India for months, then NZ then quite a few other places. His pack was a 32 litre and he even kept a water purifier in there! His whole thing was - "if I need it where I go next, I will buy it" - worked for him - and he learnt that from me.

So - for me, it is comfort and pack light, like my son.

 

[davebugg]

Plus I think the thru hikers are carrying a lot and believe their long distant hikes are killers vs any Camino. Appreciate your and the others input. Change is good.

My total weight (base weight + consumables) on the PCT and the Colorado Trail for 5 days between resupply varied between 15 to 21 pounds. Camino total weight is about 9.8 pounds. Not so much 'killer' by any means