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You and I may not view them as suggested stages, but certainly many/most pilgrims do, hence the oversized crowds at some places. Gronze literally labels them "stage". I tend to pick my stops based on distance and suitable accommodation/food, but if I find myself in a particularly crowded bubble in the last 100km I want to know where the majority are stopping, so that I can stop elsewhere (ie "mid-stage").I don't view them as "suggested stages" so much as stages that fit conveniently on the map page. In both cases, accommodation points are identified so that the reader can pick whatever stage points they want. They can match or not match, as you choose. They show very similar routings and lodgings.
It seems to me that @JustJack wanted tofollow the oft given advice to not stay in guidebook/website end stage towns. If both Brierley and Gronze had completely different end stage towns that would make the task more complicated!What was your interest in seeing if the JB guide and Gronze had the same stages?
All guides are put together not knowing whether the pilgrim is strong, young , fit and capable of long klms each day.
I have a very old copy of Brierley's CF guide (from 2009). In this guide, the stage from Palais de Rei finishes at Ribadiso. On Gronze, it continues to Arzua.From Sarria to SdC, the ‘stages’ in the Brierley guide and in Gronze are exactly the same.
I asked John Brierley once when he decided, after telling pilgrims not to stop in one town, that now they should stop there. He was quite bothered that I’d suggested he “told” pilgrims where to stop, that he given us stages. “It’s just what fit on a page,” he said. In my view, there’s only one stage: from my front door to the crypt in the Cathedral.Last time I walked the CF and wanted to go "off-stage", I was using the stages that Gronze suggests. I didn't occur to me at the time that the Brierley guide stages could be quite different, and what's off-stage for Gronze may be designated an on-stage stop in the Brierley guide. For anyone that has used both - how closely do the suggested stages match each other?
Unfortunately some people have chosen to walk their Camino strictly according to Brierley's stages - assuming that the stages in the best-selling English language guidebook must be practical and the "right" way to walk. Then found themselves struggling to keep up with their pre-booked accommodation. I have even met someone who was very surprised that I was choosing my own stopping places and asked in all apparent seriousness "Are you allowed to do that?" What the Blessed JB intended and how his guide is used in practice can be very different.He was quite bothered that I’d suggested he “told” pilgrims where to stop, that he given us stages. “It’s just what fit on a page,” he said.
I have a similar view to @t2andreo about planning my stages, and it does not involve looking to a guidebook like Brierley's as something to follow strictly on how far to walk each day and where to stay each night. As I age, I am no longer interested in doing much more than 20 km/day, and even that might get shorter. It is then relatively easy to use a site like Godesalco.com or the new camino planner on this site to sketch out a walking and accommodation schedule. If there are no suitable places to stay, as was the case when I walked from Lisbon to Fatima in 2023, I will look at how to make my schedule more manageable by using public transport to shuttle back and forth, or how to use a complementary route that might offer better options for me.Once you know your hiking pace - with rucksack - under most conditions, as well as the number of hours you are prepared to walk each day, simple math: walking pace (km/hr) x hours = where you should look for accommodations. It may or may not be at a "stage."
My personal experience is 3 km / hr on upslopes, 4 km/hr on level ground, and 5 km/hr for down slopes. I generally use 4 km/hr for planning purposes.
I found that was the best way for me to plan my Caminos.
Hope this helps.
Tom
My favourite in terms of simplicity and ease of use is the Gronze website.
Honestly I have never taken much notice of 'stages'.
They are merely arbitrary 'points on a map' that are suggested stopping points, somewhat determined by what an average Pilgrim might manage to walk in a day. Like many, I'm not an 'average' Pilgrim. I'm very slow and can't walk long stages. Others walk much longer stages.
This method is also convenient for figuring out the "expected arrival time" requested by so many private accommodations these days. Just a little different... Total Distance Planned divided by average pace + anticipated departure time.Once you know your hiking pace - with rucksack - under most conditions, as well as the number of hours you are prepared to walk each day, simple math: walking pace (km/hr) x hours = where you should look for accommodations. It may or may not be at a "stage."
Interesting. I often walk more slowly on downhills, especially if I have to negotiate a rocky terrain - I'm looking at you descent to El Acebo!My personal experience is 3 km / hr on upslopes, 4 km/hr on level ground, and 5 km/hr for down slopes.
Agreed, but treacherous conditions are a situation apart. I might slow down to almost zero, and any general "plan" is discarded. In clear weather without treacherous conditions I walk faster on a moderately downhill stretch than on an uphill one.I often walk more slowly on downhills
I ignore stages. Walk as long or short as I feel like at the time so I do MyStagesLast time I walked the CF and wanted to go "off-stage", I was using the stages that Gronze suggests. I didn't occur to me at the time that the Brierley guide stages could be quite different, and what's off-stage for Gronze may be designated an on-stage stop in the Brierley guide. For anyone that has used both - how closely do the suggested stages match each other?
I do the same usually, but not for the first time walking a route. The first time I trust and am thankful for the guidance... I'll make my plans according to me the next time. Mostly.I ignore stages. Walk as long or short as I feel like at the time so I do MyStages
There is still a lot of research undertaken about this, ever since Naismith formulated his seminal rule about the effects of slope on walking time. The results that @t2andreao uses seem to generally hold true for slopes up to -10%, where speeds start to fall below the speed on level terrain. Maximum walking speeds appear to peak at a slope of -5%. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobler's_hiking_function for a short, albeit relatively technical, description of Tobler's hiking function, one of several formulae that describe this effect.My personal experience is 3 km / hr on upslopes, 4 km/hr on level ground, and 5 km/hr for down slopes. I generally use 4 km/hr for planning purposes.
Are pilgrims choosing to stop in those towns because they are the end point of a stage described by a guidebook or website? Or did the authors of guides choose the most obvious end points because of their size, facilities and location? I stopped in places like Los Arcos, Santo Domingo de la Calzada and Burgos long before Gronze or the Brierley guides existed simply because they felt like a natural place to stop. Nothing at all to do with guide stages.That's just a fact borne by statistics,
For the most part it would be the latter I’d assume. Guidebook authors would have picked stops that make sense. That said, in areas where there are lots of places to stop within a few kms of each other, the largest number of pilgrims will stop where the guidebook suggests.Are pilgrims choosing to stop in those towns because they are the end point of a stage described by a guidebook or website? Or did the authors of guides choose the most obvious end points because of their size, facilities and location? I stopped in places like Los Arcos, Santo Domingo de la Calzada and Burgos long before Gronze or the Brierley guides existed simply because they felt like a natural place to stop. Nothing at all to do with guide stages.
I met a Dutch pilgrim completely in tears in Palas de Rei because she was full os blisters and cramps from 2 days of walking. She said the stages were too long for her and she was thinking about quitting, because she didn't believe she could do the next stage to Arzua (28km).There is no rule that you need to walk the stage as presented in the guide.
I think the idea of “stages” is misleading. It depends on your age and fitness.Last time I walked the CF and wanted to go "off-stage", I was using the stages that Gronze suggests. I didn't occur to me at the time that the Brierley guide stages could be quite different, and what's off-stage for Gronze may be designated an on-stage stop in the Brierley guide. For anyone that has used both - how closely do the suggested stages match each other?
I think the idea of “stages” is misleading.
I found staying between stages offered better accommodation in places.
Which is exactly why you need to know what the stages are so that you know which towns are "between stages."I found staying between stages offered better accommodation in places.
The Eroski guides are excellent on route descriptions and background information. The accommodation details are often incomplete and not up to date though. I use Gronze for that. Put the two sites together and I find I have a fairly comprehensive guide.I love Gronze, but more sources the better!
Pretty much following the Brierley stages in 2016 and 2018, I took 32 days on each of those. Subsequently, I wrote a couple posts about walking a slow Camino and staying in what I described as "the in-between places". I did that slow Camino in 2022 and enjoyed it so much that I walked a slow Camino again in 2023 ad 2024. To be specific, those Camino outings were right at 40 days +/- a day. But the original point of a slow camino for me was that I had learned to love most of the Brierley stage destination towns, yet I was also drawn to many of the in-between places. A slow camino allowed both. For example, my first two Camino outings I walked Astorga-Foncebaddon-Ponferrada. In 2024, it was Astorga--Rabanal--El Acebo--Ponferrada. So, I gained three in-between places yet kept Astorga and Ponferrada, two of my favorite towns. Sometimes, I think I'd like to have a final Camino of overnighting in each of the Godesalco hamlets that have accommodations.Which is exactly why you need to know what the stages are so that you know which towns are "between stages."
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