Gortex Jackets Vs Umbrellas Vs Cycling Capes - discuss

[David]

Hi all .. so, opening a discussion about raingear ... I won't wear a rain jacket on Camino as I get damp inside and feel restricted, locked in, and if wearing a pack the straps block off circulation of air, making it worse, my arms would always be wet when I took the jacket off - and I am talking of high quality Gortex here.

I just found this video that actually agrees with me but explains the scientific reasons why they fail .. oddly, he compares with an umbrella and rain kilt and doesn't mention ponchos or capes at all. You have to bear with this video as it starts with an advert and after 8 minutes is another long advert so wouldn't bother watching that - but - the first few minutes clearly explains how even the best Gortex rain jackets just don't work (unless standing still).

I did use a poncho - without arms - but they never seemed to be designed right so moved to a traditional cycling cape ... draw hood - wear a baseball cap under - free flowing, long and loose enough to be dry and cool underneath and also wear a backpack (or pull a trailer!) ... although there are two slits for arms it is much more comfortable to keep arms inside ... can use poles if wanted with no restriction .. is my Camino rain gear and I have never ever had a problem in strong winds.
Note: At home, just walking to the shops and so on I wear my Colon Sport Technical Expert hooded Gortex rain coat, but only because I never walk far enough to start the internal dampness and much easier in shops and cafes I find.

So - this my cape, though mine is different colour - note the arm slits and front chest waterproof pocket.


And this is the 'anti' rain jacket video - you will note he likes the umbrella but never mentions that it will only be good when there is no wind and rain is falling vertically.

 

[AllisonMarie]

I am going to try the Packa, which doubles as a rain cover for the pack and as a sort of attached poncho with arms, a front zipper and air vent zipper at the armpits. I’ve only trialed it in one mild rain so far but it seemed pretty slick and it stays very well ventilated.

 

[David]

I am going to try the Packa, which doubles as a rain cover for the pack and as a sort of attached poncho with arms, a front zipper and air vent zipper at the armpits. I’ve only trialed it in one mild rain so far but it seemed pretty slick and it stays very well ventilated.

Your arms will drip with sweat. trust me on that.

 

[good_old_shoes]

I had the exact same type of poncho/cape on my first camino, only in a different colour! Was happy with it and always stayed in the "team poncho" because it simply works for me. I also often wore it with hands (or at least one, one for the hiking stick!) inside.

The one I have got now has very wide sleeves and a big hunch for my giant backpack, but apart from that, it's more or less the same. It's like walking in a tent. I can sit down on any wet bench to rest and neither me nor my backpack get wet or muddy. It has enough airflow to not sweat too much, and can be tied up a bit on more mountainous sections and can be tied between the legs in strong winds. Also doubles as a picnic blanket.

For some people and in some settings, apparently a goretex/rain jacket or an umbrella work better. It certainly depends on personal preference, climate of the region you walk in, and the kind of weather and trip you want to use it in. All systems can work, and all systems have their negative sides.

In a warm summer rain, it doesn't really matter if your umbrella breaks in the wind. On a winter hike up on a mountain that can be fatal. In the meseta it doesn't matter if the wind pushes you slightly off the path because of your sail-like poncho. On a more narrow, technical mountain path, that would be catastrophic.

There probably is a reason why people on high alpine expeditions usually don't wear ponchos or umbrellas, but since I don't do that kind of thing, I stick with the poncho.

It really depends on what/when/where/how you want to use your rain gear.

For my purposes, my poncho/cape/coat is perfect.

It's ugly as hell, but I don't care!

 

[JustJack]

A few weeks ago I sat at a coffee stop along the CF, and marvelled at all the pilgrims getting in and out of their rain ponchos.

It had started raining a few minutes before, and there was a constant stream of pilgrims coming into the cafe, looking wet and bedraggled, with rain dripping down their poncho hoods into their faces, and their bodies all sweaty as they struggled to remove their oversized garbage bags.

I shrugged, picked up my umbrella, pushed the button on the handle top pop it open, and strolled away. Dry, no rain dripping into my face, no sweating underneath a poncho, so stopping to put on or take off the rain gear. Just a simple small folding umbrella - exactly as I would use at home. I suspect the vast majority of pilgrims do not use a poncho at home when it rains, so I'm not clear why they think it's the best option on the camino. I get that umbrellas are much less useful when it's really windy, but luckily I didn't have any rainy days that were also windy. And I was also able to use the umbrella on the meseta when the sun was scorching.

 

[David]

JustJack .. comic post, I like it - but - a non peaked hood, whether on a cape, a poncho, or a rain jacket, needs to be used with a peaked hat, a baseball cap - as all suffer the same problem of water dripping onto the face.

Capes are the complete opposite of 'sweaty', there is no way whatsoever one can become sweaty when wearing a cape. (I say cape as is properly designed, rather than those weird cheap ponchos where your arms stick out halfway )
And - there is a poncho design, such as the Altus, that has sleeves - these are appalling! as the arms are encased in a sweat room! I had an Altus some twenty years ago and had to wear it as a cape, not using the sleeves at all, was fine then.

When someone wearing a cape looks wet coming in from the rain the wet is on the outside. One shakes the garment when still outside then walks in and takes it off - Voila! dry and cool person underneath!

As for your umbrella - I couldn't agree more!!! though in England we very often have rain accompanied by blustery winds, but we also have storm-proof designs available.

 

[Anhalter]

On Apr. 15th this year i took a group of 6 students to a pleasant little hike around my hometown just shy of 30km. At around 7°C and in the pouring rain. I used my ultralight jacket together with my kilt. And you are correct, i used a "ball cap" as well.
Sweat was no issue and everything under the jacket and kilt was quite comfortable. My gloves are not made for such a weather and became soaked. The ball cap became soaked, and i found out that while it keeps the rain from my eyes it transports quite some cold to my head (sorry cant describe this better).
Also as a guy being very pro trailrunners, those Goretex boots apperently have their use cases and this day likely was one of them.
Not sure if a poncho or umbrella would have worked better tbh. Likely what would have would be using sturdier equipment than my camino stuff thats chosen for the occasional bad weather in late spanish spring.

 

[good_old_shoes]

@JustJack,

Of course the oversized garbage bags are not for everyone, but if anyone looks at me and pities me for wearing the poncho/cape instead of an umbrella or jacket, thinking how uncomfortable and impractical it must be, they have no idea how happy I am with that ugly thing, and have been for years now.

Not saying an umbrella can't be a good choice in some cases. You were happy with it, perfect! It's also a piece of gear most people have at home and are used to. So for a summer walk in moderate weather, why not? Totally fine!

But those who wear their ponchos/capes also have their reasons beyond "it's what people do on the Camino".

So, short version, I use it

- for rain protection
- to protect from cold/wind, as additional warm layer
- as a picnic blanket / in front of tent
- pack rain cover (my backpack is too big to fit under a standard umbrella!)
- to be able to sit down on a wet bench/chair
- for rest breaks/ breakfast or lunch breaks even in horrible weather when there's no bar ect. available to shelter from the weather
- privacy screen when there's no toilet, especially in areas like the meseta with no bushes, or areas with lots of people walking by
- part of the filling for my "pillow"

and more.

An umbrella does not have all those different uses.

For those who only want/need protection against rain/sun in the summer, it can be a good option, I guess, depending on the route.

For me I would have to bring several additional pieces of gear without the poncho, especially in colder seasons, therefore it makes more sense to bring one item that serves several purposes, which in this case is the poncho/cape.

For actual experience: On the test walk for my current cape, I walked through 0-2°C constant heavy, snowy rain up a local mountain (a small and very easy one, but a mountain!) in combination with waxed leather mountain boots and light crampons (ice on the ground) not sandals in that case, and a felted hat over the poncho hood. I was warm, comfortable and dry the whole time. An umbrella would have been more or less useless that day, certainly at the peak, where I had to crawl on all fours for the last meters to get to the door of the restaurant up there, because of the strong wind gusts (for the germans, it was the Brocken, known for easy access but horrible weather and strong wind). I saw quite a few unhappy people with umbrellas and rain jackets that day, and most of them only walked a few meters from the public transport to the restaurant!

I also use the poncho at home, by the way. For example when taking the bike to the supermarket ect. in heavy rain, and also for daywalks, garden work in the rain, ect.

It all depends on preference and what exactly you need for your trip/way of travelling, in the end.

@David I haven't noticed any more problems with sweating with the cape with sleeves compared to the old cycling cape. Now I'm interested about the measurements of the Altus vs. mine. Maybe the sleeves are wider? I Wonder why I don't have that problem. Or maybe I just walk so slowly that I don't sweat enough in general to create such problems !

 

[williamlittig]

Hi all .. so, opening a discussion about raingear ... I won't wear a rain jacket on Camino as I get damp inside and feel restricted, locked in, and if wearing a pack the straps block off circulation of air, making it worse, my arms would always be wet when I took the jacket off - and I am talking of high quality Gortex here.

I just found this video that actually agrees with me but explains the scientific reasons why they fail .. oddly, he compares with an umbrella and rain kilt and doesn't mention ponchos or capes at all. You have to bear with this video as it starts with an advert and after 8 minutes is another long advert so wouldn't bother watching that - but - the first few minutes clearly explains how even the best Gortex rain jackets just don't work (unless standing still).

I did use a poncho - without arms - but they never seemed to be designed right so moved to a traditional cycling cape ... draw hood - wear a baseball cap under - free flowing, long and loose enough to be dry and cool underneath and also wear a backpack (or pull a trailer!) ... although there are two slits for arms it is much more comfortable to keep arms inside ... can use poles if wanted with no restriction .. is my Camino rain gear and I have never ever had a problem in strong winds.
Note: At home, just walking to the shops and so on I wear my Colon Sport Technical Expert hooded Gortex rain coat, but only because I never walk far enough to start the internal dampness and much easier in shops and cafes I find.

So - this my cape, though mine is different colour - note the arm slits and front chest waterproof pocket.
View attachment 152096

And this is the 'anti' rain jacket video - you will note he likes the umbrella but never mentions that it will only be good when there is no wind and rain is falling vertically.

I'm in the jacket camp, all items in my pack are in lightweight waterproof bags, Jackets can be used when it isn't raining, you need more warmth, there's wind. etc. There are three weights of Goretex my jacket is #2 weight. I also have gone to colors for high visibility. Onward

 

[uscaminodude]

I am going to try the Packa, which doubles as a rain cover for the pack and as a sort of attached poncho with arms, a front zipper and air vent zipper at the armpits. I’ve only trialed it in one mild rain so far but it seemed pretty slick and it stays very well ventilated.

I have used the Packa on 3 caminos with rain. I have found it to work very well for ventilation. The pit zips are the key. It is best described as a long rain jacket (with regular sleeves and hood) and built in extra material to cover the pack. It has a neat feature that you can put it on your pack and then roll up the sleeves, front and back and tuck them in around the pack and wear the covered pack as usual. Then when it starts to rain you can pull out the sleeves, front etc and you can put them on without stopping and taking off you pack! I am going on the CF in late September I am definitely bringing my Packa.

 

[AllisonMarie]

That is so encouraging to hear as I get ready to walk my first camino this fall!

 

[wanderlustesq]

I am going to try the Packa, which doubles as a rain cover for the pack and as a sort of attached poncho with arms, a front zipper and air vent zipper at the armpits. I’ve only trialed it in one mild rain so far but it seemed pretty slick and it stays very well ventilated.

I bought one and used it on the Primitivo last June. It was incredibly hot too! It’s also kind of a space hog in my smaller pack. This year I’m going with an umbrella a a very light jacket.

 

[AllisonMarie]

Yes, I was (barely) able to fit it into the space built into my park for its rain cover, but I did. I’ll be walking in September-October, so warm sounds good to me

 

[wanderlustesq]

Yes, I was (barely) able to fit it into the space built into my park for its rain cover, but I did. I’ll be walking in September-October, so warm sounds good to me

I’ll be there Sept—Oct too. I hear it’s still hot through a lot of September, so now I wished I’d booked a later flight! But hopefully it’ll be less rainy!

 

[Marcus-UK]

Modern water vapour permeable clothing such as Gortex is a godsend when used in cooler climates with frequently heavy rainfall. In warmer climates any restriction of air flow leads to a clammy feeling.

An older technology from the WW II is cotton Ventile fabrics which have good ventilation properties in most cold to warmish climates when dry. In the rain the cotton fabric swells and stops ingress of water. This swelling adds weight to the jacket and does block off ventilation. The jacket then dries out when the rain stops. I have a ventile cycling jacket which copes well with the English climate.

In the UK there are a few manufacturers who supply Ventile coats and trousers to the Hunting/Shooting/Fishing fraternity. The fabric is hardwearing last for many years. This is unlike Gortex where the PTFE membrane degrades with use.

You can get Ventile Ponchos which are similar to ones I used to use in the army some 40 years ago. However they cost an arm and a leg.

Ventile Poncho

Our practical and versatile poncho with integral adjustable wired peak hood. Large enough to cover you and your rucksack, the versatile poncho can be fastened around the body, at the side to allow maximum freedom of movement, or hung as a tarp.

hilltrek.co.uk

 

[JerryStroebele]

Umbrella, Gore-Tex rain jacket with hood, hood down and neck open for cooling, rain kilt, knee high gaiters, Gore-Tex non-leather boots for Galicia in late fall. Pack rain cover and inside waterproof bag. Buen Camino.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Well, for perfect ventilation, I have a poncho/coat made of felted wool. The kind that comes close to traditional pilgrim's cloaks.

Rain runs off of it for hours, it keeps you warm even when it does get soaked (which takes a long time) and I also didn't find it too warm when I used it on the more sunny days in spring on my first Camino.

It is very heavy though, and sadly my new big backpack doesn't fit under it. Otherwise I'd consider using it again for a winter season camino.

When the rain was exceptionally bad in Galicia, I put the cycling cape over the woolen one so that it didn't get soaked. I looked very funny but it worked.

It also doubled as a blanket, which was helpful because my lightweight sleeping bag was too cold.

I have used some strange gear for my first Camino, and still arrived!

 

[Theoham]

JustJack .. comic post, I like it - but - a non peaked hood, whether on a cape, a poncho, or a rain jacket, needs to be used with a peaked hat, a baseball cap - as all suffer the same problem of water dripping onto the face.

Capes are the complete opposite of 'sweaty', there is no way whatsoever one can become sweaty when wearing a cape. (I say cape as is properly designed, rather than those weird cheap ponchos where your arms stick out halfway )
And - there is a poncho design, such as the Altus, that has sleeves - these are appalling! as the arms are encased in a sweat room! I had an Altus some twenty years ago and had to wear it as a cape, not using the sleeves at all, was fine then.

When someone wearing a cape looks wet coming in from the rain the wet is on the outside. One shakes the garment when still outside then walks in and takes it off - Voila! dry and cool person underneath!

As for your umbrella - I couldn't agree more!!! though in England we very often have rain accompanied by blustery winds, but we also have storm-proof designs available.

Hi. Thanks for this info all. I am interested in the storm proof umbrellas you mention. I plan to walk the Frances , mid Oct to end(ish) of Nov, and so am wanting to be uber prepared for rain. Cheers!

 

[dbeatriceb]

I am going to try the Packa, which doubles as a rain cover for the pack and as a sort of attached poncho with arms, a front zipper and air vent zipper at the armpits. I’ve only trialed it in one mild rain so far but it seemed pretty slick and it stays very well ventilated.

I love the Packa but only use it in colder weather. Yes, the ventilation is great, long pit zips, etc., but it just gets too hot inside unless the outdoor temperature is pretty low. I’ve used the Packa when hiking Caminos in November-December or in February-March, but otherwise, imo, it’s too hot to wear. It will definitely keep you and your pack dry though.

 

[JerryStroebele]

My umbrella is from Zpacks. Very lightweight and gives UV protection. I don’t think it is advertised as storm proof but I have had to hold it with two hands in some strong gusts. Sometimes I clip to my pack harness (of which I use two to dampen bouncing) but I just use one trekking pole so generally just hold it. The beauty of an umbrella is it is great for both rain and hot sun. Buen Camino

 

[David]

Hi. Thanks for this info all. I am interested in the storm proof umbrellas you mention. I plan to walk the Frances , mid Oct to end(ish) of Nov, and so am wanting to be uber prepared for rain. Cheers

Hi Theoham - the Fulton umbrella company proudly display their coveted Royal Warrant, which means that they alone were chosen by appointment to supply our royal family with umbrellas.


Their storm umbrellas are wind tunnel tested to 78 mph (125 kms/h). They aren't too expensive but the full length and wide umbrella Cyclone, span of 131cms, does weigh 878gms ...
... but! They have added a compact to their range, the Storm, (span of 95cms) that weighs 230gms but has the same storm strength,

Here the Cyclone full length https://www.fultonumbrellas.com/mens/windproof-wind-resistant-umbrellas/490/cyclone-black/

Here the Storm compact https://www.fultonumbrellas.com/mens/windproof-wind-resistant-umbrellas/727/storm-black/

They have many designs, including golf and walking umbrellas (made of material that does not attract lightning strikes!). They are truly superb umbrellas!

 

[John Holland]

I have used both a Goretex rain jacket and two different ponchos on caminos (I have done several). The jacket didn't work with a backpack over it. It was difficult to put on - I had to take off the pack first - and was very sweaty. I ended up being as wet underneath as if I had not worn a jacket. Then when the rain stopped it was difficult to take off. I had to stop, remove the pack etc. The first poncho had studs on the sides. They blew apart. Didn't work. The second poncho was brilliant. A short zip at the chest and sleeves. Very easy to put on. Just grab it out of the pack's side pocket and pull it on over the pack (it had plenty of room for the pack) while still walking. With a collapsible wide-brimmed floppy hat (which is also great for the sun - much better than a baseball cap and no need for an umbrella) under its hood I had no rain dripping on my face. The other advantage of the poncho was that it keeps my legs pretty well dry. And when the rain stopped it was simple to pull off and stuff in the pack's pocket, again while continuing to walk. And no sweating. So for me, I go with the poncho on a camino. If I wanted completely dry legs, I would just take out from a side pocket and pull on lightweight waterproof pants which had side zips on the legs so I didn't have to take off my boots. But it is an individual choice. Whatever suits you.

 

[Lleslie]

Us, completely dry under our hands free umbrellas meeting fellow pilgrims (who walked backwards that day, slack packing) with saturated rain gear and sodden underneath! Somewhere on the Lisbon to Porto stretch May this year

 

[David Tallan]

Nothing is perfect, everything has trade-offs. This trip I brought a hands-free umbrella. The pluses are: you get plenty of ventilation. It generally keeps at least your head and shoulders dry (and, depending on the angle of the rain, potentially more). On hot, sunny days it can also provide shade. I can use it while also using my hiking poles. But the downside is that you can't adjust the position or angle of the umbrella much, and certainly not dynamically like you can a handheld umbrella, and it can significantly diminish your field of view, especially on uphill. When it is very windy it is also less practical, especially if the rain is coming in more horizontally.

I also brought a very lightweight rain jacket. The upside us that it is super lightweight. It is reasonably good at keeping the rain off my torso and arms. On the other hand, if it is a very hot day, or there are a lot of prolonged uphills, I may get as wet from the perspiration as I would from the rain.

On a previous Camino I brought a poncho. It provided better ventilation than the rain jacket (although I could still get wet from sweat in it). But it was challenging when conditions were windy and didn't protect my arms from the rain.