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Flasher near Ponte Maceira

KinkyOne

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Time of past OR future Camino
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
I can't believe this is happening, it's like a snowball...
I'm posting this on request of @Maya Amanecer 2015 which is on her way from SdC to Fisterra. It happened today (May 19th). This is the quote from her E-mail:

"Had a weird encounter near Ponte Maceira before Negriera with a young Asian exhibitionist/masturbator. Luckily, was with another woman pilgrim. I did try to report to police, but they didn't respond when we three girls (a third pilgrim saw him stark naked 10 min later) rang the bell at police station."

It's not her (nor my) intention to discourage anyone walking this beautiful extension of other Caminos, just be alert and report to the Police if similar accident happens.

Suerte!
 
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Thanks for that. A female friend and I are walking this extension in June. We'll keep our fingers crossed that we don't get pestered. Mind you, depending on his native language, I might enjoy the ploy I employed with a flasher in the UK once - I walked right up to him, peered down at his, um, appendage and said "Interesting. It looks like a penis only smaller".
 
I wasn't suggesting for one moment that anyone else tries it and I am well aware of the potential risks attached to insulting such people. I would also not employ this tack if I were walking alone. Having said that, I don't assume that flashers are all potentially hostile or violent. But I take your point and apologise if my comment seemed flippant and poorly thought through.
 
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While walking the Camino Portuguese in 2013 (it still seems like just last year) my friend and I happened by a guy down a road/pathway who was standing, trousers down, with a good hold on himself. I don't know what happened next; Sheila didn't see him and I just continued walking away. He was about 50-75 ft from us. No reaction from us and maybe he zipped up and went home. Or stayed there to get reaction from someone else. It was somewhere between Redondela and Padron; I'm not sure of the exact location. It was in a lovely park, that's all I know.
 
In previous thread I mentioned working in law enforcement tracking sex offenders. Seems once these dirtbags start operating in an area the word goes out. They have to be dealt with aggressively & with there faces names on television.
 
MTtoCamino said:
In previous thread I mentioned working in law enforcement tracking sex offenders. Seems once these dirtbags start operating in an area the word goes out. They have to be dealt with aggressively & with there faces names on television.
Click to expand...
But a major difference is that flashing is apparently not illegal in Spain.
 
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cher99840 said:
But a major difference is that flashing is apparently not illegal in Spain.
Click to expand...
Yes, I wish our societies world wide would stop producing these folks as it seems there are more of them every day. But I am not alone in my frustration with it. Just need to figure out why there is such a problem, to slow it down. In this case it was not a horrible result, but I always think of the innocent children or the tortured victims. It is simply hard to forgive this group of people. That's why most of us fear this for the Camino.
 
I am so glad that people are coming forward with these incidences because I was the victim of two such incidences last year on the Camino Frances. Sept/Oct 2014 on the meseta. And then in a forested area from Santiago to Finisterre.
Please ladies have your wits about you, either walk with someone and/or make sure there are walkers not too far away. I alerted several other walkers and cyclists shortly after the incident also. There is no point covering this up, im sorry but the camino is not entirely safe.

 
I understand your frustration. I have never been a LEO but I was a dispatcher and my officers would get very frustrated at behaviors that were categorically not-ok but fell outside of Statute/Ordinance.
 
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Tara67, did you report those incidences to the authorities?
I think if people start reporting them, maybe the authorities will begin to pay attention.

And KinkyOne, it DOES feel like a snowball, doesn't it?
 
It's good people are coming forward here, but if people don't report these incidents, then the authorities can't do anything about them.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure flashing is illegal in Spain.
There seems to be some uncertainty.

When I was flashed in Portland, on a busy bridge in broad daylight in rush hour traffic,
I was so shocked I almost lost control of my bike.
But I was laughing...
I guess I'm weird.
It was so bizarre to me - this guy jacking off on a bridge in rush hour traffic.

I suppose if it had happened on a lonely path, I may have had a different reaction.
I'm honestly not sure what I'd do - probably shout at him and get out my phone to call the authorities. Or maybe I'd hit him with my stick. I just don't know.

I do know that I ran from the mugger in Santiago and he chased me all the way to my street.
It scared the poop out of me - but didn't keep me from going back to the Camino.

I don't know the answer - but I do not believe it is to walk in fear.
 
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According to another thread on this, flashing is not illegal but as soon as the person touches or threatens you they are committing a crime. Correct me if I am wrong but that's how I understood it. Which means reporting it to the police might not achieve much, other than raising awareness of course, but maybe reporting it to hospitalera/os might be an idea? I'm sure they like to know what is going on in their area. My friend and I had an encounter with a flasher on the Camino Ingles many years ago - he drove past us, then undressed and locked himself in the car before getting ready for us to walk past. Luckily we didn't feel intimidated, nor did we laugh, and there were two of us so we just walked past and hoped he achieved his goal so he wouldn't need to wait for someone else. It probably would have felt different if I had walked it alone. I often made a point of waiting until potentially not-entirely-friendly pilgrims or locals had left or walked off before I set off, or I would speed up to put them behind me. All just precaution, no concrete threat. Sheer gut feeling.

Check your chest straps for built-in whistles, buy one if necessary and think about what you would/will/can do if you hear another pilgrim's whistle. Put the emergency number 112 on speed dial. But don't let fear stop you from going and enjoying your camino!
 
Is it just this year that all the weird ones "came out". It seems like there is just a lot of this going around on the Camino. So so very odd.
 
I'm sure you're right, and I would never, ever do it myself! But I couldn't help but laugh at the story.
 
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It seems to me that if you consider the fact that these people know that what they are doing is legal, (amazing as that seems to us), presumably they are also aware that crossing the line to physical threat or worse involves them in a serious criminal act. Distressing or traumatic as these reported exhibitionist incidents may be, the perpetrators may be deliberately avoiding prosecution by keeping within the law. The ones with obvious criminal intent, as in the reported case last Saturday, are a very different breed.
I'm guess my point is, that if this behaviour is legal, we should not be surprised that it is occurring.
(Moderator, I'm going to self-report this quote in case you view it as unhelpful speculation).
 
When I was a cop we called guys like this, "weenie waggers". They come from all different backgrounds and socioeconomic statuses, and they are all weird.

My best advice to anyone that encounters one of these creeps, and I've said this on here before, is to yell and scream as loud as you can. If you have a whistle on your pack blow on it. I recommend getting a plastic emergency whistle to hang on your pack. The kind they put on boats. They are even louder than the one built into the pack-straps. If you have a camera take a photo of the guy to show the police later on. If he's standing by an automobile take a photo of the license plate. If you have a cell phone call the police number. If the phone's not activated, pretend. He doesn't know that. They get off on a woman's shock and fear when they see him doing his thing. They don't get off at the prospect of a woman screaming "policia! policia!". Strong, aggressive women scare them. Attention scares them. They are sexually dysfunctional.

I hope these incidents don't discourage any women from walking the Camino. Unfortunately the more popular it becomes, more creeps like these perverts and the thieves as well, crawl out from under their rocks and try to take advantage of pilgrims.
 
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Pattii said:
Is it just this year that all the weird ones "came out". It seems like there is just a lot of this going around on the Camino. So so very odd.
Click to expand...
Hi Patti, It feels to me that the whole sad Denise episode has allowed the opening of the flood, maybe tsunami of outpourings of concerns to be heard, to be allowed a place to settle and be shared. I am in angst for any of us who have had these blatant intrusions into our safety, any violations of our personal space cannot be tolerated. I am tired of the PC speak, call it what it is, say it how it happened and may the perps suffer their due. it's called karma or balance.
Nature/God will take it up.
 
Mark Lee said:
If you have a whistle on your pack blow on it.
Click to expand...
Mark a question that comes up for me and I've read it from others as well:
If you were us (women walking, solo or otherwise), and you heard someone elses 's whistle, what to do? Immediately go help? Call the Policia? Freeze? Run, duck, hide? I honestly don't know what I'd do. Though obviously it'd depend on circumstances, from your point of view as a LIO , are there any guidelines?
(I know, Spain and the US are different, but I'm thinking more generally in terms of safety recommendations here).
[Edit...and how best to help.]
 
Definitely run towards the sound of the whistle because that action of yours could avert possible attacker from doing what he has intended. Maybe on the way to that place pull out your camera/phone and be prepared to take photos/call 112 (or even call before reaching place where the whistle was blown). Don't leave or forget your walking poles if you have any, they will give you some time (=distance) from attacker.

I'm sure @Mark Lee will have some more advices on that!
 
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I would agree that the right thing (IMO) to do is to run toward the sound of the whistle to aid someone in need. Make as much noise and sound strong and angry as you can...the dirt bags will not know who or what you are and how many other people are behind you.

This is an easy choice and decision for men....but we really do recognize how hard this is for most women.
I can only hope that one of us (men) is nearby when this happens. With most of us. the outcome will not be pretty.
I am not PC and do not sympathize with these perverts in any way.
They are doing harm to other people.

My wife was flashed on the VdlP while I was a couple of km ahead of her.
(Pretty much the only time on many caminos that we were not in sight )
She hit him several times in the head with her sticks and sent me a text. I dropped my pack and ran back but the guy was gone and she was walking toward me.
We reported it.
 
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Thank you to all the women who have come forward with their version of events regarding this topic. Thank you for the male loving response. Thank you to Anniesantiago threads. Thank you to the people widening the discussion wtih spanish law as it stands and also the police reaction. Im glad there has been a FLOOD of comments. for me its not NEGATIVE to express how you feel.

My friend has asked me to post this
25 April at 21:53 2015
Fun thing that happened to me today: seeing a fully naked man perched on the back of his car with the boot open, masturbating. Dude, WTF. This was a pretty isolated area and could've been dangerous for me, was it right not to show any reaction and just to get out of there quickly? These creeps get off on the reactions right? So much ewwwww. solo walker from Santiago to Finisstere.
 

WTF exactly. Because this might be the same person!!! Can you ask your friend for additional info: age, color of the car etc.?
 
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Given that a single woman has gone missing recently, one would hope that the Police are in the area, being far more visible and taking much more interest in weird people than they might normally do! Unless I'm wrong?
 
Undermanager said:
Given that a single woman has gone missing recently, one would hope that the Police are in the area, being far more visible and taking much more interest in weird people than they might normally do! Unless I'm wrong?
Click to expand...
True, but Denise Thiem disappeared somewhere after Astorga and accidents in this thread took place on the extension from Santiago to Muxia/Fisterra. On first leg to be exact.
 
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Members are reminded, again, that speculation and rumour do little to help keep pilgrims current or future safe. The Spanish police have been frequently praised for their professional engagement in the search for Denise Thiem and for their commitment to keeping the Camino as safe as is possible.
 
You know, I can only say what I would do, and of course I would run towards the whistle (may take me a bit, not as fast as I used to be ). That's me. One has to know one's limitations and I certainly cannot recommend that everybody do that. Place themselves in a potentially harmful situation. The advice of yelling, screaming, whistling was mainly for the victim to scare off the deviant. A way to stop him or scare him off because of the possibility of a second or third party showing up. A second or third party that may have men in it. If you do go towards the sound of the screaming, yelling etc, approach cautiously and if you get close enough to see the activity, start yelling and whistling too. The old adage of strength in numbers. But one still has to be careful.
As far as guidelines go, I don't know what Spain's laws are. Apparently it's not illegal to pull your pud in public. Maybe they see it as a form of self expression? Who knows?
 
Please do read the title (and the appropriate section) of the thread. It has nothing to do with disappearance of Denise Thiem!

Thanks!
 
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Thanks, Mark...that's exactly the kind of information that I was looking for.
(And who knows indeed...unimaginable...)
 
I was interested in finding out about the legal aspects of this and asked a friend who is a prosecutor in Madrid. She told me that being nude and masturbating in public is not prohibited by the Spanish Penal Code and therefore it is not criminal behavior (exception for doing it in front of a minor or someone with diminished capacity). Many cities, however, have local laws that prohibit it, but the penalty is merely a fine.

I still think that reporting is a good idea because of the community policing aspect of all of this. Just because it isn't a crime doesn't mean that a police officer can't talk to the perp and his family. I bet that many municipal administrations along the Camino are alarmed at the impact that a large number of these reports could have on their primary source of income, and I suspect that they will do what they can to put an end to it. Buen camino, Laurie
 
Quite agree with that Laurie. I just want to add that if a person is walking, lying, reading a book, playing football or masturbating on his/her property is one thing (nobody that walks by don't have to look at it), but is someone is clearly exposing when masturbating then that's completely another thing IMO. And should be reported.
 
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Interesting. That would explain some of the reason these guys do it with abandon I suppose. No real consequence for their actions if they do it in front of adult peregrinas. Here in the US even if wasn't illegal it would be an express train to an ass-kicking.
Yes, I would hope the local authorities and governments take into consideration that type of behavior may scare off a lot of the people who butter their bread, and take appropriate actions to curtail it. Who knows how many potential pilgrims read about it on this forum? Also there is the pilgrim's grapevine of information. That always surprised me. You would hear about all kind of things on the Camino about what was going on ahead of you and behind you. Fellow pilgrims, incidents, etc. I was having a communal dinner at an albergue and a female peregrina whom I'd never met before told me she had heard about me from another peregrina whom I walked with prior that she walked with as well for a few days more than a week before. Totally caught me off guard.
 
I was a student at the University of Valencia in 1977 and I remember a girl rushing to the front desk of the dormitory shouting, in English, that she had seen a young guy masturbating on the street, right in the city. I had to translate for them what she was so upset about but they seemed to think that it wasn't such a big deal. I don't know what the laws are but, surprisingly to me, they didn't take it very seriously. As a man I found it weird that somebody would be doing that but I am sure that to a woman that would be very disturbing and frightening.
 
cher99840 said:
But a major difference is that flashing is apparently not illegal in Spain.
Click to expand...



I have to say that in my particular case, the guy in the woods just looked so ridiculous to me that I shook my head and walked on. I don't know, as he was standing there holding himself, if he was just weighing his options or what.... (Sorry...had to...the bad pun was just sitting there... I'm not making fun of sexual deviants or such, however; just that particular guy....)
 
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We are hard-wired neurologically to fight or run during times of danger; it's an automatic response. When neither are an option and the situation is overwhelming, our autonomic nervous system will go into a freeze response and we become immobilized. It's last ditch effort to save oneself. In some instances it is the optimal survival tactic. You don't chose what you do (fight, flight or freeze)--your body/brain does, so there is no way you can predict what you would do if you heard someone else's whistle blowing. And each situation is different; what you do one time, you might not do the next. It depends on how your brain perceives the threat.
 
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What would I do if I were a woman alone on the Camino and I heard a loud whistle? I like to think that I would run towards the sound, yelling out to an imaginary man [or a more distant real flesh-and-blood man] something like "¡'Alain'/ 'David' / 'Marco' ..... Ayudame, rapidamente, por favor!" That way, hopefully, any creep up to no good might be fooled into thinking that a man, or two, would shortly be upon the scene. Deception has been known to work.
 
I had no idea about the whistles (I'm a newbie!) I'll probably get one, although I'll be walking with my friend all the time.

As far as the main point of the thread is concerned, my first comment (way back at post #2) might have seemed flippant but it was based on the title of the thread. For me, "flasher/flashing" has nothing to do with public masturbation. My understanding of it comes from the classic, British 1970s definition of a dirty old man (or younger) in a "flasher's mac", simply exposing himself to passing people. It certainly never involved masturbation. It was literally just some guy opening his coat or his trouser zip to expose his bits. I always found that rather sad and not remotely threatening. I would probably feel a little different about someone masturbating in public though knowing that it's not illegal in Spain would probably temper my reaction a little bit.

I can't say what my reaction would be if I were walking alone but given that I'll be walking with a friend (female) at all times, I can't say that the prospect of this kind of experience bothers me overly. If people were talking about a guy with a knife or a gun, I'd be a little more worried but I am not a woman who finds men threatening as a matter of course. I wouldn't consider that pretending to be calling for another man to be an effective or particularly acceptable "defence" against someone's actions.

Something that has genuinely surprised me about some of the comments on this thread is that there are seemingly so many women who are self-confident enough and brave enough to do a 800km walk alone, in a foreign country, and yet are upset/threatened/traumatised by the sight of a penis. I am not, in any way, trying to insult anyone but I want to learn as much as I can from this forum but I'd also like to express my feelings/opinions about it as I prepare for my first ever walk.
 
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@emsr2d2
There actually was a masturbation included. Sorry if I didn't make that clear but I was just passing on the info.

Ultreia!
 
No, no, it was my mistake. Your first post clearly included the word "masturbator". I wasn't concentrating and based my response solely on the idea of flashing.
 
I will be leaving Santiago to walk this leg in October ... I don't think that I'll "see" anything in that cold !
 
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dcorrea951 said:
I will be leaving Santiago to walk this leg in October ... I don't think that I'll "see" anything in that cold !
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Actually I wouldn't be quite sure. I've seen a flasher in New York showing his assets D) in front of a restaurant window in freezing winter
Happenings on the Camino(s) such as described are difficult to handle, and therefore prevent, by police. I've been able to call local police on a few occasions when noticing undesired behaviour by certain people and had immediately response. The problem is that many foreigners don't know whom or where to call, how to explain the problem (in Spanish of course) and give an exact location (?) of the happening. I've actually met the same people at various times and locations who were picked up by a car when they realized that the police was advised. On one occasion I had the police confront the person(s) and the question came up of how to handle these people. Witnesses? Damages? File a complaint for what? What do you want us to do?
The issue is probably easier to be managed by Spanish walkers in a group, who know how to handle this without bothering the Guardia Civil and teaching a lesson to the culprits
Ultimately the best thing is to ignore, get out immediately, possibly call for help, and accept that there happen to be weird people wandering about in the world.
 
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