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FICS Forum: Why Change the 100 km. rule to 300 km.?

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@SEB and @Anenome del Camino, I will retire to bed thinking about your comments about the practice/implications of people repeating the Camino multiple times. Given my personal track-record, it may take me a while to get to sleep tonight.
 
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@SEB and @Anenome del Camino, I will retire to bed thinking about your comments about the practice/implications of people repeating the Camino multiple times. Given my personal track-record, it may take me a while to get to sleep tonight.

I am mortified by the thought of your losing sleep because of anything I have posted. Much of my last post was being tongue in cheek but a serious realisation that I am adding to the pressures because of wanting to walk the Camino again. Also, I thank you for working as a 'Ditch-pig' with Rebecca last year. That is certainly giving something back to the Camino and we could all learn from your example.

With regard to the idea of changing the distance from 100kms, there is another reason why that cannot happen. The minimum starting point on the Camino Portuguese 'qualifying' pilgrims for a compostela is Tui, and I don't expect that the many Spanish pilgrims who leave from there every year would accept a change, not least because it is such an iconic place being just across the river from Portugal. But perhaps it is worth considering why Tui onwards is not suffering the density - and associated problems - of pilgrims ... or is it?
 

@SEB, I slept like a log last night + so I hope your latest post began in a t-in-c fashion, too. Your kind words about my ditch-pig exploits are appreciated, but the real thanks should be directed elsewhere.

Re the density/problems from Tui question, I walked Tui -> SdC at the start of June last year and my experience was that there was plenty of spare capacity in the albergues where I stayed. I would imagine the Frances route to be far busier at the same time of year, so maybe it's a case that one is promoted more than the other.
 
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I'm not a Catholic but I am a Christian. Technically, doesn't the word "catholic" mean "universal"?
 
Aren't most people victims of the Camino(s)' popularity!?
 

I believe, given the cost of airfares for many of us, for the costs of getting to the start of your Camino, wherever it is, and getting home can be very high for some people.

Also there are still a lot of 'pilgrims' who go out and purchase top gear to do the Camino as if it's a fashion parade/competition to see who spent the most on their designer equipment as if it makes them more 'professional' or better walkers.

The $ costs can still be high even if the actual time and $ cost on the Camino itself isn't.

If you are a tourist/pilgrim why should the Camino be a 'pain in the butt'? No reason.

Way back when any pilgrimage was difficult, hard, dangerous, the food was awful, the sanitary conditions were atrocious, raging rivers had to be forded, wild animals abounded, thieves and murders were around every corner and if none of those killed you then your own bad health probably would.

Today we've moved on from there and that's great. Why would ANYONE suggest, for even a moment, that we should return to the bad old days even for a worn out traditions sake?

Ancient realities made pilgrimages a pain. Not needed today. Move on.
 
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@SEB and @Anenome del Camino, I will retire to bed thinking about your comments about the practice/implications of people repeating the Camino multiple times. Given my personal track-record, it may take me a while to get to sleep tonight.

If you love it then live it.
 


I think that jozero was thinking of the word 'surly' rather than 'surely'?
 
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Reading again through the proposal, I remember that I wanted to ask this before:


Is this really correct?

Well, yeah. The person who wrote it is a respected historian, an expert on Galician pilgrimage history. So I think we can believe it. Gallegos had (and have) a web of pilgrimage routes that date to prehistory. (a remarkable number of shrines there are dedicated to St. Andrew, not James!) When the Santiago thing occurred, it grew up fast and furious and way beyond the local purview and mindset -- it was a calculated political stroke, a remarkably successful one! It's just another of the extraordinary things about this particular pilgrimage.
 
Well, yeah. The person who wrote it is a respected historian, an expert on Galician pilgrimage history. So I think we can believe it.
Thanks. Is this person Anton Pombo? In the meantime, I have discovered a book written by Richard A. Fletcher. I've never heard of him before but apparently he was an Oxford medievalist with Spain as focus of research. His book on Saint James's Catapult: The Life and Times of Diego Gelmírez of Santiago de Compostela is available online http://libro.uca.edu/sjc/sjc.htm . It has more details about the time before the boom, ie before Diego Gelmirez, "one of the more remarkable ecclesiastical operators of his age, who, having become Bishop of Santiago de Compostela in 1101, managed to have himself made a papal legate and turned his remote Galician town into the destination of pilgrims from across Europe". The rise to prominence of this site is a fascinating story in any case.
 
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Yes, the person who wrote the FICS paper is Anton Pombo. And thanks for reminding me of the Catapult book. Yet another thing I gotta read!
 
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Might I suggest that if travellers are hell bent on having there Compostela as proof of pilgrimage at the end of their journey that FCIS awards different coloured sellos depending on distance travelled to Santiago. If you walk the minimum of 100km + you get one colour, 200km+ another &c. This system may be a way to remind people of the significance of their journey?
For me, I love the walk, I love my passport as memento, each stamp reminding me of a different time or person. I have no religious bent or belief so my camino is not completed for religious pilgrimage, or the receipt of a Compostela for that matter
 
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It was meant to be positive. I was suggesting that of the people that I know on this forum, you have been prepared to follow paths that involved much higher costs, not just financial, on your pilgrimages.
 
Into the mix comes the announcement that a sailing pilgrimage (see this thread) , not ending in Santiago but in a Galician port, will also qualify for a compostela.

Maybe giving out compostelas for arriving at places other than Santiago is another way of reducing the pressure on the last 100km. I seem to remember someone talking about a certificate for arriving at Oviedo.
 
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I've just re-read the thread on the sailing pilgrimage; I had assumed that it would be by "sailing boat" - i.e. non-motorised transport, requiring some skill and effort. But I see on closer reading that I am wrong.

Perhaps the answer is the pressure on the last 100 km is the reverse of that suggested by FICS - just give the certificate to anyone who journeys to Santiago, regardless of means of doing so.
 
I read this and wondered if the sailing pilgrims then walk in from Muxia or Coruña, as they would have done in the past. Under 100kms walking but qualified by the 150 nautical miles sailing along the northern Spanish coast and the various named marinas. Not very big boats/yachts will fit in them so skill and hard work will be needed still, plus coping with the elements on a sometimes difficult coast. We have a sailing friend and this might have been a possibility for her when she was more active.
 
Perhaps the answer is the pressure on the last 100 km is the reverse of that suggested by FICS - just give the certificate to anyone who journeys to Santiago, regardless of means of doing so.

If the purpose of the pilgrimage, in the eyes of the Church, is to visit the tomb of St James and perform some religious exercises, then it really shouldn't matter how a pilgrim travels to Santiago.
 
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The history of the modern pilgrimage is not quite as fascinating as the medieval one but it has its moments . I've just read an article by Lynn Talbot ("Revival of the medieval past") which covers the time from the 1930s to 1960s and presents quite a different view. The article also let me to a detailed description of a pilgrimage by members of the Estella association from Roncesvalles to Santiago in 22 etapas. I was intrigued to see that they used luggage transport in 1963 :
 
I noticed that the distance from St Jean Pied de Port to St-Saturnin at Toulouse is almost exactly 300 kms. St-Saturnin at Toulouse also claims to have the remains of St James! Maybe a new Camino Frances is in order to satisfy the 300 km demand for a Champes de Etoiles.
 
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I agree the Compostela is not important. My objection is that having walked over 400 miles I cannot find a bed for the night because of the Sarria to Santiago tourists.
 
Won't exempting the English Way just re-route the short-haul pilgrims away from CF to the northern coast?
While it may have historical relevance dating to mid evil days, the journey from Britain to northern Spain was a perilous journey back then. Nowadays it's a luxury ferry or a flight and a bus. Exemptions (not handicapped of course) are usually political compromises and always exploited.
 
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Hi All...
I am new here but definitely not new to the camino. I have walked three times and plan to walk the Norte late summer-fall. I have never collected my compostela. I am catholic but felt it was more of a very spiritual and private journey. I am happy to hear that it will take a bit more dedication to earn your compostella.
 
living, it's only a proposal. It's a long way from happening, although the cathedral dean says it's a very good idea...
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
Ciao, UT -
I don't believe that the FICS at all is saying that one must be a Catholic. I do believe it IS saying that the intent is primarily for those who approach it for a spiritual or religious purpose. I get the strong sense that those who are only walking the Way for adventure or to lose weight have missed an essential reason for the pilgrimage's original existence.

I am kind of suspecting you already know that, because of the tinge of sarcasm in your paragraph 3.
Your presence does not diminish the experience for the faithful (providing your music isn't too loud, your drinking too raucous, or your hiking pants fall too low!). The presence of another human being does not ever diminish the experience, because how does one pilgrim know the intent of any other pilgrim? And for Catholics, we (are supposed to) learn early that all humans, all our fellow travelers on Life's Great Pilgrimage, are created in the image of the Creator, so your presence enhances the experience for others, not diminishes it.

But do keep in mind that this is a pilgrimage, with all that implies.
Vaya con dios,
 
Last month after starting in Biarritz , doing the Norte and then Primitivo we got the bus when we hit Melide , ...NOISE ......to SDC and then walked to Muxia
Noise and crowded thus the reason we continued onto Muxia which also is getting very popular.
Big increase from our previous walks which commenced in 08
 
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Reading again through the proposal, I remember that I wanted to ask this before:


Is this really correct?
Yes, it's historical fact. The Camino de Santiago has never been a local "romeria," even though it was promoted as such early in the 20th century, when the international pilgrimage had gone dormant. It's always been a long-haul trip.
 
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Yes, it's historical fact. The Camino de Santiago has never been a local "romeria," even though it was promoted as such early in the 20th century, when the international pilgrimage had gone dormant. It's always been a long-haul trip.
Renekah,

I tried to find the post you responded to as I am uncertain of your responses's meaning.

What is a "local romeria"? A shortish local walk vs a long haul?
 
Yes, it's historical fact. The Camino de Santiago has never been a local "romeria," even though it was promoted as such early in the 20th century, when the international pilgrimage had gone dormant. It's always been a long-haul trip.

A "romeria" is a Spanish parish festival, where everyone carries the image of the patron saint from one holy place to another, has a party, and carries it back again. It's a short-haul pilgrimage, very neighborhood-y.
 
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This is a complex discussion topic that has been doing the rounds since 2014 at least, and it has multiple inter-twining factors, including Tradition, Religion, Economics, and Politics. And Modern Transport.

But there's also an aspect whereby those of us with more experience feel that many are missing out from that experience because of the frankly artificial 100K rule, strictly religious or traditional aspects aside, leading some to propose this as a sort of "new normal".

Of course the Economics are a significant factor here, as the financial benefits to the Communities and Regions are currently quite unfairly being bagsied by Galicia ; the downside of the proposal is of course that the Galician touristification would treble its radius, thus denaturing the Camino even further.
 
As for your suggestion/recommendation (which I have bolded above) what "church" will be recognised as being an acceptable issuing authority?

The Compostela is an official document issued by the Catholic Church. And so technically, as the Diocese of Santiago recently reminded everyone, is the Pilgrim's Credencial.

There are limits to how much secularisation of the Camino the Church will turn a blind eye to ...
 
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If they are walking for 4 months and with a chaperone, surely they don't need the Compostela as proof of having walked.
Actually nobody NEEDS a Compostella do they? But having walked that distance carrying their own tent etc., it is a nice to have thing. They deserve one as much as anyone else. Having a chaperone does not make their effort any easier, after all it is their camino, as much as it is the camino of those who get their luggage carried and taxi over the difficult bits.
 
Alas this article gets a few things wrong, or maybe so does Julian Barro:

A) it talks about only two categories of people : those who walk for religious purposes (a spiritual process) and the rest who are just walkers who observe. There is no place for spirituality here other than if you have faith and are walking to Santiago with the destination being the reason for walking, and yet the same document is given to those who walk with faith and to reach Santiago then to those who claim to be walking for "spiritual reasons".

B) it says that since 2014 the Compostela is given to all, which is not true.

If the arzobispo really believes the only pilgrims are those walking with faith and for whom reaching Santiago is what matters it may be time to review the criteria for who is given a Compostela and who is not.
 
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
I can't see that the FICS proposal makes any attempt to distinguish the motives of people walking. It merely wants the 100km rule changed to 300km.

Yes, but you cannot realistically suggest that it would have no effect upon motivation
 
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If I have understood this correctly, one of the main reasons for the suggestion is to try and reduce the crush of folk that commences at Sarria at certain times of the year

I think that's unfair -- the central purpose seems to be to improve the quality of the Camino in itself for both the minimalist 100K crowd and the local communities.


Yep -- mais l'un n'empêche pas l'autre !!
 

This is a great post, but I think people should remember that the Tourigrino is a creation of the Middle Ages, not the 1990s, and that it is a perfectly valid traditional manner of being a Pilgrim. Even though we may shudder at the idea of being one oneself !!!

As the excellent mademoiselle Warcollier wrote, when the current incarnation of the Camino was being created back in the 60s, the only truly important thing is to get to Santiago.

To face financial difficulties has been part of every single Pilgrimage I have ever done.
 
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My prediction: there will be a lot of talk, then no changes! The pilgrims are too large a source of revenue to risk a change.

Change is inevitable -- to be more metaphysical, Change is Intrinsic to ALL genuine Pilgrimage.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.

Bekkah, I love you dearly, and please can you give a hefty kick to the Black Dog and a warm hug to the Toad, but no, the Compostela provided it is obtained in proper conditions is still a legal document and a proof of a Partial or Plenary Indulgence as the case may be, and so admissible as testimony in a Court of Ecclesial Law for various purposes, for those who may be in need of such things.

Otherwise no, it is not a "get out of hell free" card.
 
I am 68 Live in New Zealand with my wife I am training for twelve months to do the 800ks for very spiritual reasons.
I know that my wife could not do the 800 ks but she is putting in the same effort as I to be able to meet me in Sarria and do the last 100 ks with me. I would be devastated if the same physical effort from both of us relevant to what our bodies can stand was not recognized by the compastella.
 
I am nearly 71. I did the 800 ks this year and believe me I didn't thing I could. If you take your time and listen to your body you can do far more the Sarria and the last 100 ks is not the real CAMINO it is packed with people taking a holiday and it's difficult to achieve spirituality with soooo many people. I hope your wife decides to do more say from Leon but if not certainly she should get her compostela and she will. Good luck and Buen CAMINO.
 
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Terry :Ultreïa to you and your wife. Happy preparations!
 
Ouch Richard - "last 100 ks is not the real CAMINO.

I hope the many not-so-able people I have lead on the last 100km of the Caminos and to Rome don't read this post! Some pilgrims have taken up to 17 days from Sarria to Santiago - and for them it was a very real Camino.
There are many pilgrims who can't afford a 5 or 6 week holiday away from home who walk the last 100 km to Santiago and have deeply spiritual experiences on the Camino.
Any fit person can walk 800 km or 2000 km but that doesn't make it a 'real' Camino, just a really long hike.
No matter what distance you walk, the real Camino is what you carry in your heart and the intentions you live whilst on the walk.
 


Wow! That is actually pretty cool. We have a few "Wilderness High Schools" for troubled teens who are at risk and who do not respond well to conventional school. They do a lot of back country treks in all seasons. Many end up furthering their education to become park wardens or back country guides. As a social worker, I'd be really curious how this Belgian program works and how it changes the youth after.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.

Being a belgian social worker I must tell you that due to different political agendas and financial issues the " Oikoten " project has gone rather minimal. There are still other projects running ( like farm work etc ) but walking the Camino is not high on the agenda.

http://alba.be/ondersteunende-begeleiding/onthemingen-oikoten/

No english version but google translate might help.
 
the last 100 ks is not the real CAMINO it is packed with people taking a holiday and it's difficult to achieve spirituality with soooo many people
If I assume that the words are a bit too stark and somewhat poorly chosen, it is a sentiment that is often expressed! The last 100 km is markedly different from the first four weeks, and Richard is pointing that out. Certainly it is a "real CAMINO," but it is likely to provide a very different interaction with fellow pilgrims.

Luis "Unapata" walked the "whole camino" on one leg and crutches from SJPdP to Fisterra. There are many different levels of not-so-able pilgrims who may have widely varying motivations and capabilities. The Camino offers them a complete range of choices and challenges to suit their imaginations. Able pilgrims do things like ride a unicycle, use skateboards, run, or go barefoot to fulfill their imaginations. They are quite fortunate to have a wider range of life choices, and many of them boastfully do not seem to appreciate that advantage!! After making the pilgrimage, some of them will have broadened their perception.
 
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If they are walking for 4 months and with a chaperone, surely they don't need the Compostela as proof of having walked.

Writing as a former bureaucrat, it is likely that the Belgian authorities revel in contemplating evidence of independent third-party verification-- one likes to think that they also take pleasure in the formal Latin scroll! It would also be more elegant in a frame than a copy of the companion's formal report.

But writing as one who walked with one of these pairs -- the youthful miscreant and his guide -- for a few days along the del Norte, I was struck by the maturity and thoughtfulness of the reflections of the young man as he walked along. Evidently it won't work for everyone, but,.....

As far as the 100-km gang go, I found them overwhelmingly Spanish and cheerful-- it was not what I look for in a Camino, but it was perhaps reflective of the spirit of the mediaeval pilgrimage and I would note that I spoke with a number of pilgrims who were taking a second, longer, Camino, having done the 100-km walk.
 

Sabine, this is a lart of the website I threw in GoogleTranslate.
"You're in a desperate situation and is challenged to take back your life into your own hands. But you do not know well which side you want out or you are not quite ready for. You sit for a long time in trouble and you feel that you really do not know how to proceed. You would like to change something about your life, stand on their own or you show environment that you can deliver a unique performance. You love adventure and it would do you good to have to be a long time away from everything and get to know a whole new world.

You are between 16 and 18 years (exceptionally to 20 years on extended supervision) and have a file within the youth. You live in Flanders or Brussels. Your juvenile court and / or consultant behind your plan."

Correct me if I'm wrong, especially since the website is very complete and I have not translated it all, but this doesn't give me the feel one gets the option between jail and this programme, just that it's a program for juvenile deliquents who have been in the system, or youth in the system for all sorts of other reasons not linked to a criminal offense, and are looking to build/rebuild their life. This is on top of "doing time" in the juvenile system, not in lieu of.

Also, could point out in the website where/if there is any info on why the Camino is no longer used in this program?

Thank you.
 
Hi Anemone,

I thought it was still ' and -and "situation. Meaning youths who our under "jeugdrechtbank" ( court : mandatory ) or "jeugdzorg" ( care : voluntary ) who can participate.
I will ask later this week to some people in the field who might know more.

Don't get me wrong : Camino is still ONE of the tools but not the only one like in the seventies or eighties.


Here is a link to parliamentary discussion in 2012 where the halvation of subsidies is been discussed.
https://docs.vlaamsparlement.be/docs/handelingen_commissies/2011-2012/c0m228wel19-15052012.pdf

So again making it the organisation more difficult but not impossible to find alternatives.
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
With the party feeling now so prevalent on the Camino, especially bs the 70s and 80s, I can see why they would look for other challenges.
 
With the party feeling now so prevalent on the Camino, especially bs the 70s and 80s, I can see why they would look for other challenges.

Nothing to do with the party feel...more a financial issue here in this country and political parties who believe more in punishment than in prevention. But I will not elaborate seeing this will get me into trouble with the forumrules Happy to continue through PM.
 
Hi, just as a matter of interest, I have recently walked the Norte, and for the last week or two I was walking parallel with a French woman and her 16 year old charge, a troubled teenager, who had done something seriously bad, and was undergoing rehabilitation while on the camino. As far as I could see it was working. We stayed at the same albergues several nights, and celebrated an evening together in Santiago with other camino family. The teenager was very proud of her compostela. The French lady, who lives in Paris, said this was her fourth camino with a problem teenager. This girl was from Marseilles. Jill
 
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I am just sad for those who do not get the chance to experience a pilgrimage to Santiago. There is little space to "contemplate" during the last 100k this could be because it is too commercial or crowded, it could be because it is too short to lose yourself or possibly because there is little to challenge you physically. I found no magic in Santiago, it was just an over crowded tourist city. I wish there were several "End Points" where one's pilgrimage could be recognised by the Church. The compostella is a recognition, and we all need some external validation because we are social beings.
 

Can some one please tell me that any rule change will not come into affect till after Sept, this year as I am walking the 800ks and getting my wife to travel to sarria to meet me and walk the last 100 ks as she could not do the 800ks. finishing without her would not be nice. Our flights are already booked as we live in New Zealand. What do people think?
 
Ok, maybe it's just me, but I went on the Camino AS a pilgrim, in every sense of the word. The whole pilgrimage, beginning actually in Paris at the monument to St Jacques, then to SJPdP, and every step of the way. It was truly a marvelous, reverential, PILGRIM experience....UNTIL I GOT TO SARRIA.
From Sarria to Santiago was a miserable experience - the tourists mobbed the place, desecrated the markers, trampled on residents' lawns, stole their flowers, left underwear and garbage on the route, blocked the passage of pilgrims by marching 4 or 5 abreast (sometimes arm in arm), and simply made the last stage a most unpilgrimage-like event.

What true European pilgrims do who can't do the whole stretch at one time is start at the beginning, do what they can, save their passports, do the next stage the next year or whenever, and continue to save their passports until they've finished the whole thing.

The constant rebuttal I hear is "what about the elderly and the infirm who can't do the whole thing" I respectfully call hogwash. I passed by a young man with Muscular Dystrophy who was doing THE WHOLE THING on crutches, accompanied by his caretaker. Yeah, it took him a long time. But he did it.

As far as the elderly go, are you kidding? There wasn't one day on any stretch from Paris to Santiago where I didn't walk with, or in some cases, get passed by, a pilgrim well into their 80's. For four days I walked with an 86 year old retired physician from Mexico who told me with some pride this was his 4th Camino pilgrimage since he turned 70!

So, neither age nor infirmity nor time are barriers to doing a proper pilgrimage, but a proper pilgrimage isn't the crash course from Sarria.
I wish that more of the refugios would reserve space ONLY for pilgrims, and leave the tourists to the hotels.

I regret the tone of this comment, but I was so devastated by the damage done to the Camino by the tourists on the stretch from Sarria to Santiago that it has stayed with me as a dark memento, even now 6 months since I completed my pilgrimage.

I absolutely vote for the 300km designation.
 
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Please not again.

Why this discussion about true/ less true/ false/ genuine/ a pilgrim/ a Sarria tourist....?

It is so tiring.

It devaluates not only the achievement of the people who merely walked the " last 100 k" but it also devaluates ourselves.

This discussion saddens me enormously. That is all.
 

It is very unlikely that this change will come about this year - or ever. Also, the value of the pilgrimage is in actually doing it and not in the certificate you receive. Your wife can still walk with you, this is about the "end of the walk certificate" not about "being allowed to walk the Camino" - which anybody is - independent of creed or kilometers. Buen Camino, SY
 
Terry, of COURSE your wife can make the walk - the rule isn't about who can walk it, it's about the Pilgrim Certification process.
 
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So, neither age nor infirmity nor time are barriers to doing a proper pilgrimage, but a proper pilgrimage isn't the crash course from Sarria.

I'm sorry, but this is untrue on several different levels ...

1) "a proper pilgrimage" is not limited to how you personally define it (except for yourself and others like-minded)

2) those who go on a religious pilgrimage to Compostela by bus or by car or whatever are exactly pilgrims

3) and yes -- age and infirmity and time are all significant barriers against the foot pilgrimage regardless of dubious claims to the contrary ; the fact that some people can overcome these barriers does not mean that everyone could

4) And really -- if you have let yourself be distracted by the larger numbers of people between Sarria and Santiago, then maybe you needed to keep a bit more focus on your own pilgrimage instead of on other people's approaches to the Camino -- which regardless of how you feel about them, are exactly and precisely as valid and "proper" as your own
 
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, beginning actually in Paris

You should be very proud Jennifer walking from Paris,

"The standard you walk past is the Standard you accept"
Thus we avoid Sarria onwards when walking , just bus it and start again from another area.
We were really shocked when we hit Melide after arriving there on the Primitivo.
In the last ten years the compostala's have TRIPLED
The numbers won't go backwards .
 
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There is no rule change, just people who want to see a change.
Like @SabineP said - please don't let's go here again.

Have a great Camino @Terry W - that last 100kms for you and the full 100kms for your wife will be good. Maybe read the thread Walking with a Companion, especially as you will be 'walked in' and your wife just setting out from Sarria onwards.
Buen Camino to you both
 

Well what this proves, is what I have been told, that deciding to walk the Camino makes you part of a larger family. In my family I have one wife and four adult daughters.(why do you think I am walking the Camino) mmm.
The same love and respect that I feel in my own family I also feel in the Camino family. Even if we get some little arguments now and again.
I wonder if we can reflect on the Gospel of the parable of the workers hired in the vineyard in the morning then midday then afternoon and all being treated equally.
Just a thought.
Love you all.
 
Hi , there is no " doing the whole thing ".
For one pilgrim the Camino is 100km and for a other pilgrim is it " what ever the distance " .
That's all , wish you well.
 
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I've always seen joining the "Sarria crowd" as the point where spiritually, you start to lose the solitude of the Camino and begin your re-entry back into normal life. And yes, for some whose Camino might not have been lengthy enough for their physical, emotional, intellectual, or spiritual needs -- that return to civilisation and its crowds can come as quite the shock.
 
I usually stay out of these discussions, but every now and then, I can't resist. So, here's the story of how I got over my "scorn of Sarria starters" (which I've told a number of times, so forgive me, old-timers). Two years ago, I was volunteering in the pilgrims' office writing Compostelas. One Sunday in May, we could hear a large group of boisterous teens outside the office. Eyeballs rolling, we braced for the onslaught of more "fake" pilgrims. As they came in one by one, we could see they were all wearing the same shirt, "Te queremos Juanito", with a picture of a teenage boy. Turns out they were all walking with Juanito's parents from Sarria, to arrive in Santiago on the anniversary of his untimely death. All compostelas were written "vicarie pro" and many tears were shed. And then the group gathered in the courtyard for a prayer. I realized then how ridiculous it was for me to think I had any business judging anyone's motives, authenticity, etc.

And like this, there were many other instances -- the young mother who walked from Sarria, while her husband drove with the 6 month old baby making stops to wait for mom so that the baby could be nursed at the appropriate time. This baby was near death at birth, and the mother promised Santiago she would walk in gratitude if he lived till 6 months. Or how about the father and son who hadn't spoken in 40 years and met in Sarria to walk together to see if they could reconcile..... I may walk many more kms than they did but I won't hazard a guess as to who were the more "real" pilgrims.

Buen camino, Laurie
 
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As far as the elderly go, are you kidding?
Not at all. Those (including myself) who are healthy and fit enough to do it are very fortunate. Some humility and compassion are proper here.
So, neither age nor infirmity nor time are barriers to doing a proper pilgrimage, but a proper pilgrimage isn't the crash course from Sarria.
Of course, age and infirmity and time are all barriers to walking long distances. They are not, however, barriers to doing a proper pilgrimage. Attitude is.

We should not be badmouthing the crowds of which we are a part.

I was so devastated... that it has stayed with me as a dark memento.
Yikes. I wouldn't call that experience a proper tragedy. I hope you can put it in proper perspective soon.
 
Ha, ha!! When you described a "Whole Pilgrimage" I'm sure you had your tongue firmly in your cheek! Please tell me that you did? I haven't heard that phrase for years! We all know that there is no such thing as a 'whole pilgrimage' starting from any place on the earth. Never was a disignated starting place, only a destination. [Certainly not Paris or Rome, or St Jean Pied de Port.]

Oh wait! There actually is one route - or two. The Camino Ingles from El Ferrol to Santiago is 'the whole pilgrimage'! And now, if you walk 25km in your own country, you can start at Coruna and walk the original, authentic, historic, no doubts about it, 'real' whole pilgrimage to Santiago - and earn a certificate.

"....went on the Camino AS a pilgrim, in every sense of the word".

Good for you! Not sure what sense you mean besides being a traveller to a strange land' or 'a pilgrimage to a holy shrine' but according to the Santiago cathedral website, a pilgrim is one who does the pilgrimage for the right reason and that is clearly and unequivocally, to revere the relics of Sant Iago in his tomb in the city named after him. The original, authentic, historic, undisputed origin of the pilgrimage to Compostela was to arrive at the tomb of the Saint, attend mass, say a prayer (at least the Apostle’s Creed, the Our Father) and a prayer for the intentions of the Pope; receive the eucharist, say confession, and earn an indulgence. It doesn't matter how you reach the tomb - train, plane or automobile - and millions of pilgrims do just that every year without setting foot on 'The Camino'. For walking pilgrims, it certainly doesn't matter where you start, how heavy the backpack is, where you sleep, what you eat and whether or not you rely on the 'universe' to provide for you. You don't get any extra Brownie points for starting in Paris, Milan or Rome. Mere 'walking' (whether 5 000 miles or 50 miles) is not the goal. Starting in a specific city, or in a specific country just doesn't cut it, sorry.

"So, neither age nor infirmity nor time are barriers to doing a proper pilgrimage, but a proper pilgrimage isn't the crash course from Sarria."

Speaking as a leader of 'Caracoles' not-so-able groups to Santiago (NB: on the last 100 km only) please don't use word like 'respectfully' and 'hogwash' in one sentence when referring to old and disabled people. That's not nice. (Say 5 Hail Mary's). When you have personally led groups of aged and disabled people from Sarria or El Ferrol to Santiago - perhaps taking 17 days doing 5 km - 7 km per day - then let's discuss this subject.
Our 90 year-old was no longer fit enough to walk a longer route (he's already done 9 Caminos so had nothing to prove) and wasn't financially able to spend almost a year walking to Santiago. Not at 5 km to 7km per day. Just do the math my dear - at 5km per day from Paris (to do the Whole Pilgrimage) would take him 320 days! We had a 74 year-old post-polio pilgrim with the Veloped walker in one of our groups who suffered excruciatingly every km and was the least able. It it took all her resources, energy and will to cover 5 km per day. I am so pleased that there wasn't someone there to tell her that her pain and efforts were Hogwash.

"...4 or 5 abreast (sometimes arm in arm), and simply made the last stage amost unpilgrimage-like event."
What is un-pilgrimage like about 'real' Spanish Catholic pilgrims who walk from Sarria to the tomb of their Patron Saint in youth groups, church groups, school groups, confraternity groups, with joy in their hearts? But then, every now and then, along comes a miserable foreigner with a long face frowning on their celebrations. You had your 1400 km of solem trudging. By the time you reached the Province of the Saint it was time to celebrate! The path to Santiago was never sacrosanct - it was a joyful, sometimes dangerous, exotic trail with huge crowds walking in caravans with mummers and troubadours; commercial touts on the paths close to Santiago accosting pilgrims, advertising their wares, taverns, ale houses.

"I wish that more of the refugios would reserve space ONLY for pilgrims, and leave the tourists to the hotels."
ABSOLUTELY - agree!! In 1988, a system of refugios was put in place on the Camino to (a) provide for pilgrims who could not afford to stay in hotels, pensions etc in towns and cities and (b) in remote places for all pilgrims to Santiago where there were no hoteles, pensiones or places for pilgrims to sleep. The refugios were never meant to compete with the established hospitality industry, but many pseudo 'poor pilgrim' (who can afford to stay in hotels) feel entitled to a place in the albergues which were never meant for them. They should stay in private, commercial albergues, hotels, pensions etc.
Of course I'm sure you followed that rule the whole way from Paris.
 
We all know that there is no such thing as a 'whole pilgrimage' starting from any place on the earth

Yes there is, although I generally agree with most of the excellent points that you make in your post -- from the altar of your parish church to the altar of your parish church via Santiago, walking every step of the way there and back, is "the whole pilgrimage" from start to finish.

...

No, I haven't done it either.
 
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