- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances 15,16,18
VdlP 23, Invierno 23, Fisterra 23
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Take a class.
Edit: that is what helped us. Real teachers, either online or in person
We all have very different learning styles, so as usual, there is no right answer. Here is my personal opinion...It seems to be South American Spanish!
Is that a big deal?
Or is there a better app out there to use?
No. South American Spanish just uses a formal "you" rather than vosotros for you guys. There are some words that are different like juice, but you will be understood.
I was in a boarding school dorm full of boys from Glasgow.I started Spanish in Granada with 4 week intensives in 2008 and 2009. This gave me roughly intermediate Spanish.
I now amuse myself with DuoLingo, which is Latin American Spanish. There are differences but nothing insurmountable and it is free.
I would hesitate learning Brazilian Portuguese on Duo because friends from Brazil have told me that they have difficulty understanding people from Portugal.
I have difficulty understanding people from Glasgow.
Good to hear. I just found a local class but the teacher is from Columbia.
Hi Robo!@Robo. Take a look at Language Transfer.
Here another vote for Language Transfer
It really is.Trying it now, It's great !
@Robo , didn't you read this recent thread?
Let me respond from the point of view of someone who is currently (but not always) highly motivated in language learning, and who is married to a fanatical language learner (@Wendy Werneth).
A word @Arctic_Alex used three times in the OP is motivation, and this is of course the key to everything. People often say about Wendy something like, 'She is so motivated to learn languages.' And she is.
But let's say you have a friend who likes watching movies. Perhaps every week they go to the cinema 1-2 times and watch several more movies at home. Would anyone say that they are 'motivated' to watch movies? No. And why not? Because in our minds, we categorise watching movies (or sports, or other such activities) as something that is inherently fun, while language learning is categorised as study, something that is not fun and therefore that requires motivation (the generally poor level of instruction in foreign languages at school is a large contributing factor in this, but that's a conversation for another day).
So the short answer is this: make language learning fun.
I asked Wendy to reply to this thread and she declined because she essentially does not understand not being motivated in language learning. It's inherently fun for her so she doesn't need to motivate herself, just like the person who likes watching movies doesn't need to be motivated to watch a new movie.
Making language learning fun is easier said than done, of course, and even more so at a beginner level when you can't access a lot of great material. But the key to it is essentially this: do what you like doing in your native language in your target language, and then it will be fun for you.
We are understandably focused on speaking in language learning. And of course, speaking well tends to be the end goal, and for good reason. But in your own language, you do far more input than output. And that's the second key: input (that is, listening/watching and reading). Input is how you unlock output in a foreign language -- i.e. it's how you learned your native language as a child. And, if you consume the right content for you, it can be fun simply to consume it, so that the learning happens naturally as a byproduct.
For example, I listen to history podcasts (e.g. Hardcore History, The History of Rome etc) for fun in English; therefore, it makes sense if my level is high enough that I would do the same in Italian, which is my current focus language (e.g. Storia d'Italia).
As a second example, I have always enjoyed reading fantasy-type books in English as a child and as an adult (e.g. Narnia, Tolkien's books, Harry Potter etc). So I am doing the same in Italian. In the last three months I have read 8.5 books written by the Italian adolescent fantasy author Licia Troisi. I read them in LingQ which is (among other things) essentially a tool to help you to read in a foreign language. I have read about 30 books by the Spanish adolescent fantasy author Laura Gallego in the last 12 years. Reading her most famous trilogy (Memórias de Idhún) was literally the biggest factor in allowing me to take the next step in Spanish. Reading is magic, as Wendy says.
These are just examples of the kinds of things you can do, according to your own interests. If you like music, listen to music in your target language. If you like soap operas, watch soap operas in your target language. Use tools like LingQ (and I'm sure there are others) to import books or content from YouTube or Netflix or wherever to assist with things like transcriptions/subtitles to allow for greater understanding. This content would ideally but not necessarily be aimed at native speakers, including at children for beginner learners.
The two themes I hear again and again when polyglots speak about their language learning success are to listen/read extensively, and to do it every day. Consuming content that you're interested in motivates you and gives you the grounding in the language that you need in order to be able to speak well.
In today's connected world, there is an enormous amount of content available to consume for major languages (including Spanish, obviously, as that's likely to be our focus here -- Notes in Spanish is one good example at multiple levels). The excuse of not being in the country where the language is spoken is, these days, just that.
I live in Portugal but with my current language focus, I am exposed to far, far more Italian than Portuguese on a daily basis, because I am choosing to surround myself with Italian through listening, reading and iTalki conversations. For example, I just watched a 25-minute video on Dante before writing this post, and when I finish this post I'm going to read the transcript of the video to enhance my understanding of what I watched and to pick up some new language along the way (listening and having access to the transcript is gold). I once took a course in English on Dante for fun, so watching this video in Italian was also fun.
In a nutshell: figure out how to consume lots of content in your target language in a way that is fun for you. That's when you reach the secret Wendy level where language learning is fun, motivation is inbuilt and when you wake up each morning you can't wait to get started on it.
I hope this helps.
P.S. Apps like duolingo have realised they can making language learning fun through gamification, but they are not actually very effective by themselves.
I will be hospitalera in Ponferrada and hope I am teamed with a fluent Spanish speaker! My French and modern Greek ( useless here) are fluent but my Spanish is pretty basic. I found Babbel more challenging that Duolingo.My early issue was recognizing when people used vosotros and the verbos. I can always speak, but understanding is more difficult.
I try to read a Spanish newspaper each day. It helps to know what is going on and if I read it first in English on another app that helps. I watch Euro News in Spanish for a bit each day.
I have taken in person and online Spanish lessons, but when pressed working as a hospitalera is what has helped me the most. I have to be able to speak and understand. I am certainly not perfect, but I understand and can make myself understood. Handing off the albergue or accepting it can be the most challenging.
Thinking about how to say something another way if I don't know the exact words is the most critical. I have been happy that the last few handoffs that the non-English hospitalero has told me they understand me with no issues.
Really, I think it just takes an intense effort with immersion to learn to speak and understand once you are past puberty. I learned German as a child and it is much easier (and was easier in college, ) which is why I didn't take Spanish until I was in in my 50's.
Gotta be honest here. The right answer is to back to your childhood and learn a foreign language. Just like the advice of the pro to a golfer starting to play at age 60. Go back and learn at an earlier age.OK, I really need to get serious about improving my Spanish!
The trouble is..........I can 'get by'.
And that's a lazy level to be at.
I can book accomodation on the phone, order meals and that kind of stuff.
But conversations?
That's really hard and very limited.
I met some amazing people on my last Camino out in the countryside.
And answering their questions, I could manage where I'm from, where I started, how old I am etc.
But that was it really.
I have found Duo Lingo quite useful.
And I like the structure of it.
But..........
It seems to be South American Spanish!
Is that a big deal?
Or is there a better app out there to use?
Help.........
Hola RoboOK, I really need to get serious about improving my Spanish!
The trouble is..........I can 'get by'.
And that's a lazy level to be at.
I can book accomodation on the phone, order meals and that kind of stuff.
But conversations?
That's really hard and very limited.
I met some amazing people on my last Camino out in the countryside.
And answering their questions, I could manage where I'm from, where I started, how old I am etc.
But that was it really.
I have found Duo Lingo quite useful.
And I like the structure of it.
But..........
It seems to be South American Spanish!
Is that a big deal?
Or is there a better app out there to use?
Help.........
OK, I really need to get serious about improving my Spanish!
The trouble is..........I can 'get by'.
And that's a lazy level to be at.
I can book accomodation on the phone, order meals and that kind of stuff.
But conversations?
That's really hard and very limited.
I met some amazing people on my last Camino out in the countryside.
And answering their questions, I could manage where I'm from, where I started, how old I am etc.
But that was it really.
I have found Duo Lingo quite useful.
And I like the structure of it.
But..........
It seems to be South American Spanish!
Is that a big deal?
Or is there a better app out there to use?
Help.........
I went right through the complete Duolingo Spanish tree and it didn't seem to help much. I seem to have had the most success with the "comprehensible input" methodology espoused by Dreaming Spanish.OK, I really need to get serious about improving my Spanish!
The trouble is..........I can 'get by'.
And that's a lazy level to be at.
I can book accomodation on the phone, order meals and that kind of stuff.
But conversations?
That's really hard and very limited.
I met some amazing people on my last Camino out in the countryside.
And answering their questions, I could manage where I'm from, where I started, how old I am etc.
But that was it really.
I have found Duo Lingo quite useful.
And I like the structure of it.
But..........
It seems to be South American Spanish!
Is that a big deal?
Or is there a better app out there to use?
Help.........
As I said in my post above, I also found Dreaming Spanish effective. It took me from lower intermediate to the point where Linguriosa's videos are comprehensible, so I consider that a success story.Unsurprisingly, I second what @jungleboy said about the importance of comprehensible input. The next question is, where to get that input?
Since I have been able to understand native-level material in Spanish for many years now, I don't have first-hand recommendations for lower-level materials that you could use as comprehensible input, but I have heard very good things about Dreaming Spanish, which @CdnDreamer mentioned above.
There's also a YouTube channel called Linguriosa run by a Spaniard, which will help you get used to the Spanish accent. She speaks at normal pace, which I imagine will be too advanced for you at your current level,
Book a private (online) tutor once a week for an hour. Apps a great for memory based learning but not situational conversations.But conversations?
That's really hard and very limited.
I met some amazing people on my last Camino out in the countryside.
And answering their questions, I could manage where I'm from, where I started, how old I am etc.
Help.........
I too am using Baselang. If $6 (USD) per day is doable, then you should give Baselang a try. Unlimited lessons per month; currently, I am able to manage 90 minutes daily. The tutors/teachers are both very friendly and helpful. The school has developed a curricula (A1 thru at least B2) that you will have full access too. Most importantly is the daily conversation between you and your tutor/teachers. Not only have my listening and speaking skills greatly improved but my confidence has too.I had problems with conversation because I had to translate to English what the person said to me. Then I would have to translate my answer into Spanish. But after watching hundreds of hours of videos from DreamingSpanish I can often think in Spanish. It really helped with conversation. I think it costs $7 a month US but many videos are free.
Then I added Baselang for 3 months before going to Spain. Unlimited conversations one on one but much more expensive. They got me talking. I now need to work on expanding my vocabulary by reading every day. I like to chat and really wanted to be able to do that while in Spain. I was happy with my conversations this past spring but I still working on improving.
I have tried courses but was too shy and uncomfortable to talk in front of so many people. So one on one online worked well for me.
Good for you, Robo! I recall you presented this issue before, and I told you not to mind if the Spanish was from either Spain or Latin America.I am now booked in. The class is 1 km from home!!
Hopefully I can stick with it and just progress through the levels on offer.
I have used Duo faithfully for 778 days and I can say it works. When I did the Primitivo in Sept 2022 (9 months in to Duo) I started EVERY conversation with “Estudio español en Duolingo y me gusta practicar”. After the first phrase (estudio in Duolingo” they would start to smile (or laugh) but after the end of the sentence they would almost invariably start speaking Spanish, slowly.But?
Is using Duo Lingo a big deal?
Because it's South American Spanish..........
Well, I’m level B1 in Spanish, but I still had difficulty at first with ceceo. But I got used to it after a little while. There are websites where you can get conversation practice (no charge). I don’t remember links, but if you check a blog https://fi3m.com you’ll probably find links to those and many other resources, many of them free.Hola Robo, as a Mexican I can tell you that with Spanish spoken un Latin America, you will have no trouble communicating in Spain. Saludos and Buen Camino
I was at a similar level to you before I did get more serious about Spanish. I did Duolingo and found it very helpful. For a couple of months before I left I added Preply to get in more speaking. My tutor was Raquel Lorente on Preply. I highly recommend her. She is Spanish from Andalucía, but for teaching she uses a more typical Spanish accent. The addition of speaking with Raquel in a structured way helped tremendously. Spaniards said my Spanish was good while we were walking and I was able to converse.OK, I really need to get serious about improving my Spanish!
The trouble is..........I can 'get by'.
And that's a lazy level to be at.
I can book accomodation on the phone, order meals and that kind of stuff.
But conversations?
That's really hard and very limited.
I met some amazing people on my last Camino out in the countryside.
And answering their questions, I could manage where I'm from, where I started, how old I am etc.
But that was it really.
I have found Duo Lingo quite useful.
And I like the structure of it.
But..........
It seems to be South American Spanish!
Is that a big deal?
Or is there a better app out there to use?
Help.........
I don’t think you can make the blanket statement that all older people will absolutely have a hard time learning languages. As a language teacher and learner ( 76 yrs old) certainly some people have a natural talent of imitation which makes speaking sound more natural. Also some simply cannot hear unfamiliar sounds that don’t exist in their languages and so cannot reproduce them. A language theorist .. Krashen, believed learners should not even attempt to speak until they have been immersed or listening to the target language for two years! In my second year of living in Poland where I had few opportunities to speak as my students all wanted to speak English, I was astonished to realize I could understand much of a conversation of two passengers behind me on the bus. Your habit of watching Spanish language TV is a good one. Watching news broadcasts is good too since you already know the general topic and the speech is usually clear and in standard accents. But don’t take it for granted that age is a huge barrier to learning language. My opinion is that it is very individual .Gotta be honest here. The right answer is to back to your childhood and learn a foreign language. Just like the advice of the pro to a golfer starting to play at age 60. Go back and learn at an earlier age.
Linguistic specialists say that it's best to learn a foreign language before age 12. And after 32, your brain can no longer absorb. It must reason every word, every phrase, every sentence in the language you know.
With this in mind, I spent many hours before my first camino not only doing online courses like Mango and Duolingo, finding a bilingual speaker to work with, but also watching TV and movies in Spanish, skipping English language programs completely. . At my age, the only answer was near total immersion. It worked. My first evening in SJPdP I was seated at our communal dinner across from a Spaniard from Valencia. While I admit it was exhausting, I was elated that I could keep up a conversation for an hour or so.
Bottom line: There is no short cut when one is older. One has to immerse to the point that the brain no longer fights it but finally gives in. It's very similar, in my view, to walking a long day on the camino. Your brain keeps telling you "Why are you doing this? You're crazy. Stop!" But with one foot in front of the other, the brain finally gives in and instead of fighting with you, convinces you (and itself) that there is a beer or some pintxos waiting for you. I've always thought how fascinating it is that we have what seems like another creature inside of us: our brain.
P.S. I killed myself last year trying to learn French before walking the Podiensis. Hopeless. And on my first day, a local said I should stick to a few expressions but otherwise speak English slowly. He chuckled when he said my accent was so bad that it was punishment to the ears of native speakers. I got the point. And we had no problems, but...there were no conversations with locals or pelerin who did not speak English.
I agree with this and also disagree with it. It is perfectly true so long as one adds the phrase "without training". In my phonetics course in university we had to be able to hear and reproduce sounds that don't exist in English, or are not meaningfully distinguished, so, going into the course, we couldn't hear the differences (e.g. an unaspirated "p" at the beginning of a word). Nevertheless we were all expected to do so after the training.Also some simply cannot hear unfamiliar sounds that don’t exist in their languages and so cannot reproduce them.
As an amateur language teacher (dropped out halfway through the degree program) and amateur linguist (with post-graduate course work), I have to agree. PLENTY of people are multilingual. Ease of learning has far more to do with the methods than one’s age. Anyone who has learned one language can learn another. Especially a similar language—my Spanish (level B1) allowed me to pass the A1 test for Italian before I even studied Italian..I don’t think you can make the blanket statement that all older people will absolutely have a hard time learning languages. As a language teacher and learner
In a nutshell: Look into the concept of "comprehensible input." This page does a good job explaining it: https://www.dreamingspanish.com/method. I'm conversational (i.e. I can do pretty well talking one-on-one to most Spaniards on most any topic unless it's one I have no interest in/no vocabulary for. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but definitely conversational.)OK, I really need to get serious about improving my Spanish!
The trouble is..........I can 'get by'.
And that's a lazy level to be at.
I can book accomodation on the phone, order meals and that kind of stuff.
But conversations?
That's really hard and very limited.
I met some amazing people on my last Camino out in the countryside.
And answering their questions, I could manage where I'm from, where I started, how old I am etc.
But that was it really.
I have found Duo Lingo quite useful.
And I like the structure of it.
But..........
It seems to be South American Spanish!
Is that a big deal?
Or is there a better app out there to use?
Help.........
Great for you! This is also my method, just in case I haven’t mentioned that before3 - At this point (one year in), I heard about comprehensible input. I've been doing that for 1.5 years. No grammar. No pressure. All listening--to interesting content.
I think I mentioned up in the thread somewhere that I've also been using Dreaming Spanish (but only at 800 hours or so). I just finished all of the Español con Juan podcasts. I haven't been watching the videos so much, because I like to listen when walking or otherwise doing things that require my visual attention. Anyone else you'd care to suggest? I'm just at the point where I can pretty much understand the "El Camino People" Spanish interviews podcast - but that's helped because it's a subject I'm familiar with.In a nutshell: Look into the concept of "comprehensible input." This page does a good job explaining it: https://www.dreamingspanish.com/method. I'm conversational (i.e. I can do pretty well talking one-on-one to most Spaniards on most any topic unless it's one I have no interest in/no vocabulary for. I'm not perfect by any stretch, but definitely conversational.)
A friend wrote on Facebook that she was at some crazy high level in Duolingo and still can't speak Spanish. I get it. Whenever anyone talks about learning the language, my question is always: Can you speak it and understand it? Because THAT is my goal. If Duolingo helped you get there, great. But that didn't work for me. You have to find what works for you. So here's what I did
I wrote about it my language learning journey here: https://renaissancerebecca.com/2023/11/24/learning-spanish-an-update/
Longer Story:
1 - I started with the first 60 lessons of Pimsleur. No grammar. All in the context of conversation.
2 - I then did the first 5 units of Spanish with Paul's foundational course. You can't listen to him when you're tired as his voice is SUPER monotonous. But I liked learning a bit more about how the language "works." In Unit 6, he changes his methodology and it was frustrating, so I stopped.
3 - At this point (one year in), I heard about comprehensible input. I've been doing that for 1.5 years. No grammar. No pressure. All listening--to interesting content. The key is finding that content at the beginner levels. Dreaming Spanish had tons of free beginner level videos that were interesting to me. Once I watched all of those that interested me, I was ready for their intermediate videos and pay $8/mo for new daily videos.
4 - Once I got to a high-intermediate level on Dreaming Spanish. . . I started listening/watching Español con Juan. Then I found other Spanish Teacher Youtubers I liked. And now I'm at the point where I can listen to "native content" -- i.e. any Spanish YouTuber on any topic of interest.
**Note: I studied Spain Spanish when I could.
I've now done 1000 hours of listening and can't believe all the things I've just "picked up." E.g. I never studied when to use estar or ser. I've just listened to so much Spanish that I intuitively know. I don't know the names of the verb tenses (I've never done conjugations), but I just intuitively know how to use quite a few of them because I've heard them used so much. . .
Anyway, my learning has been a whole lot more fun that studying grammar in school. And it worked for me. So thought I'd pass it on
You could try Notes in Spanish, there are various levels.Anyone else you'd care to suggest?
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