Drones

[AlexHamilton]

2 men flying their drone around the Cruz de Farro this morning. I was hoping for a quiet moment of reflection but instead I got noise. Please be mindful of other’s experiences here on the Camino. Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around. Thanks!

 

[dougfitz]

2 men flying their drone around the Cruz de Farro this morning. I was hoping for a quiet moment of reflection but instead I got noise. Please be mindful of other’s experiences here on the Camino. Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around. Thanks!

I wonder what makes you think you are entitled to even ask such a thing. If the drone is being flown legally, you might just have to accept that, and learn how to walk without letting such things be distractions from your reflection. Don't expect others, locals or other pilgrims, to modify their behaviour when they are going about their normal daily business or engaging in normal recreational pursuits.

ps, I would hold this view about a number of places. For some a place like Cruz de Ferro has no more special significance than being a sight-seeing attraction, and you cannot expect them to give it the same significance you might wish to.

 

[AlexHamilton]

As a professional, I have taken shots of many places always being mindful of others. Not entitled just courteous.

 

[Bradypus]

Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around.

Perhaps the pilgrims were an integral part of the images the operator was aiming to capture? In any case are there many moments in daylight this time of year when the Cruz de Ferro is free of pilgrims? I am not a fan of drones myself (or of the Cruz de Ferro in its current expression either for that matter) but I do not think that my personal preference for silence has any priority over the rights of others to carry on their legal if objectionable activities.

 

[Corned Beef]

Reading this, I realised I needed some more information. A guide

Drones & Air Mobility | EASA

EASA | European Union Aviation Safety Agency: The European Union Authority for aviation safety

www.easa.europa.eu

Can't find anything about a dB level though. Perhaps there is other legislation.

Have to say a talking drone is a bit weird. Perhaps it's AI gone mad.

 

[wayfarer]

2 men flying their drone around the Cruz de Farro this morning. I was hoping for a quiet moment of reflection but instead I got noise. Please be mindful of other’s experiences here on the Camino. Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around. Thanks!

Don't you just hate it when others try to enjoy their Camino as well.

 

[Bradypus]

Don't you just hate it when others try to enjoy their Camino as well.

Sometimes. Quite often in fact. There are lots of things about the Camino Frances in peak season that I deeply dislike. Large groups noisily blocking the path while moving at 2km per hour. High-speed cyclists hunting in packs. Luggage vans everywhere. Bars and restaurants packed with shouting punters. I go much further than the OP in my dislike of drones - personally I would love to see them banned for recreational use and limited to licensed professionals for strictly utilitarian purposes. Not just on the Caminos. It does terrible things to my blood pressure to see attention-seeking narcissists filming their every Camino step and then flooding the interwebs with their manically cheerful output. But I am realistic enough to realise that I do not get to create the Camino to fit my own idealised pattern and I do not get to set the rules for everyone else to follow. If I am misguided enough to choose to walk the Camino Frances between April and October then I have to resign myself to encountering all the less attractive aspects of an 800km linear theme park as well as its undoubted joys.

 

[dougfitz]

Don't you just hate it when others try to enjoy their Camino as well.

Sort of. I have come to accept that, particularly in the last 100 km from towns like Sarria and Tui, there will be some crowding, and many more pilgrims keen to get to Santiago than any sections of the CF or CP that I walked before that. In the past, some of their behaviour has been awful. But most isn't. If I put my mind to it, I can still walk in quiet reflection, knowing that if there is more noise, I can either listen to it and let it annoy me, or I can ignore it.

Even in places like churches, where one might expect there to be respectful behaviour, not every visitor is completely silent, and there will be whispered conversations going on, bumping into pews and kneelers, and just the sound of footsteps on wooden flooring. That doesn't stop me sitting quietly for a few moments, although I have sometimes had to give some overactive talker the raised eyebrow to indicate they should be quieter. It works.

It is up to me to develop and hone the skills to walk the Camino how I would like to, not up to others to make that happen for me. Clearly many do help, but that is almost another conversation.

 

[MinaKamina]

2 men flying their drone around the Cruz de Farro this morning. I was hoping for a quiet moment of reflection but instead I got noise. Please be mindful of other’s experiences here on the Camino. Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around. Thanks!

There are many rules for drones, for instance:

https://uavcoach.com/drone-laws-in-spain/

Drone pilots must maintain a distance of 150 meters (492 feet) from buildings, and a distance of 50 meters (164 feet) or more from people not involved in the flight.

Getting those rules applied is of course a different matter, especially if you prefer keeping a quiet moment to confronting the drone operators.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Quite possibly (and probably, based on my observations on several trails), the drone operators are local. they may be walking a pilgrimage, or being on a tour… and are often simultaneously working as paid photographers getting tourism shots for local municipalities to promote their regions. I started asking drone pilots why they were shooting footage in funny, remote locations, and this is what I found out. Frequently paid by local government and so they take a few days of walking or cycling holiday to get the footage…
It’s a job. And it promotes the localities that host us.
Pilgrimages do not exist to meet our desires; they demand that we meet the world on its own terms.
Perhaps OP needs to buy a remote piece of private property and build a hermitage.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I'm one of those grouchy entitled people who don't like drones.
I'm on the Camino to reflect, to pray, to enjoy nature, not to hear the noise from the drone and not to have my privacy invaded (I've seen them buzzing at the window! obviously looking in!)
Placing your stone and sending up your prayers can be rudely interrupted by people who don't respect other people's Camino, much in the same way the Mass can be interrupted by noisy, chattering tourists who won't respect the prayers and privacy of the people celebrating the Mass and/or simply praying.

Some of these answers seem a little snarky.
I think it's ok to ask people to please be considerate.
Personally, I'd like to see drones banned.

 

[Luther]

2016 I sat at a picnic table, having lunch of walnuts and yogurt, under a tree at the Cruz de Ferro. I heard a buzzing up in the tree that was getting louder and louder. I thought I must have disturbed a bees nest and after several seconds, I took off running to get out of there! Embarrassingly! After a bit more, I realized it was a drone being flown by someone on a tour bus, I think. I still remember it vividly (obviously). I didn't like it at the time, but just one of the many memories of mi Camino I cherish.

 

[Glenshiro]

Sometimes. Quite often in fact. There are lots of things about the Camino Frances in peak season that I deeply dislike. Large groups noisily blocking the path while moving at 2km per hour. High-speed cyclists hunting in packs. Luggage vans everywhere. Bars and restaurants packed with shouting punters. I go much further than the OP in my dislike of drones - personally I would love to see them banned for recreational use and limited to licensed professionals for strictly utilitarian purposes. Not just on the Caminos. It does terrible things to my blood pressure to see attention-seeking narcissists filming their every Camino step and then flooding the interwebs with their manically cheerful output. But I am realistic enough to realise that I do not get to create the Camino to fit my own idealised pattern and I do not get to set the rules for everyone else to follow. If I am misguided enough to choose to walk the Camino Frances between April and October then I have to resign myself to encountering all the less attractive aspects of an 800km linear theme park as well as its undoubted joys.

I wondered what had happened to Victor Meldrew.......

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I'm one of those grouchy entitled people who don't like drones.
I'm on the Camino to reflect, to pray, to enjoy nature, not to hear the noise from the drone and not to have my privacy invaded (I've seen them buzzing at the window! obviously looking in!)
Placing your stone and sending up your prayers can be rudely interrupted by people who don't respect other people's Camino, much in the same way the Mass can be interrupted by noisy, chattering tourists who won't respect the prayers and privacy of the people celebrating the Mass and/or simply praying.

Some of these answers seem a little snarky.
I think it's ok to ask people to please be considerate.
Personally, I'd like to see drones banned.

Alas.
Because some are incompetent and invasive, perhaps even dangerous is not grounds to ban all operators. See: drivers and cars as precedent. At best, the operating license can be revoked.
Mass is private (as any Catholic knows), and the etiquette is not to photograph people at mass, not to speak about seeing person X at mass… and not to interrupt mass (hence side chapels in cathedrals and walking corridors around the nave to keep tourists away from the mass).
Outside is public (unless otherwise designated). In public, our right to freedom from harm is guaranteed, but there is no right to solitude in public.
At least we don’t have leprosy, bubonic plague, highway robbery, starvation, or various wars along the path to interrupt our peace and quiet.

 

[VNwalking]

Some of these answers seem a little snarky.
I think it's ok to ask people to please be considerate.

Agree completely.
As well as with nearly all of @Bradypus's post.
Why should we not be able to call out people who create intrusive noise?

 

[dougfitz]

I think it's ok to ask people to please be considerate.

Of course it is. I just don't think it's okay to direct people to not do things which it seems they are perfectly entitled to do.

 

[C clearly]

Why should we not be able to call out people who create intrusive noise?

It is fair to point out the implications of such behaviour, but perhaps not fair or accurate to assume stereotypical motives and personality flaws in the person doing it.

 

[VNwalking]

perhaps not fair

Absolutely not fair, because we have no idea.
But no-one needs to silently put up with inconsiderate action. Unfortunately, many take a request personally, thinking they're entitled do what they want and to heck with the effects on others. Drones. Portable dealers with awful noises coming out. Whatever.

 

[Bradypus]

I wondered what had happened to Victor Meldrew.......

For a short time I used to change my avatar here quite frequently - working my way through a series of images of famously grumpy Scottish men. Victor was one of them...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I am a Luddite. I dislike having my space invaded by machines, no matter who is controlling them. If an animal or bird or other startling, noisy flying thing zooms down within walking-pole range of me, I will not be responsible for damage done.

 

[VNwalking]

startling, noisy flying thing zooms down within walking-pole range of me, I will not be responsible for damage done.

Same. But birds are welcome.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Same. But birds are welcome.

If a drone-sized bird flies at me, I may just swing at it in self-defense.
Whilst walking alone on a stretch of the Rio Valcarce, I was swooped-upon twice by what I thought was a falcon or some small bird of prey. It gave me a real scare! Then I realized it was a particularly obnoxious drone... and I wished he'd tried for a third. (Years of collegiate field hockey skills have stayed with me!)

 

[hikentravel1234]

2 men flying their drone around the Cruz de Farro this morning. I was hoping for a quiet moment of reflection but instead I got noise. Please be mindful of other’s experiences here on the Camino. Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around. Thanks!

Since I have never had a drone fly above me, when this happened on the Camino a few weeks ago, my husband and I were curious and just waved at the drone.

 

[dougfitz]

Whilst walking alone on a stretch of the Rio Valcarce, I was swooped-upon twice by what I thought was a falcon or some small bird of prey. It gave me a real scare! Then I realized it was a particularly obnoxious drone... and I wished he'd tried for a third. (Years of collegiate field hockey skills have stayed with me!)

If it is that close, it is being flown within the minimum distance rules. Just the same as being at a window in an albergue. I think such incidents should be reported, even better if you can identify the drone pilot, albeit that is going to be more difficult. They should be within line of sight of the drone, but that might be quite a large area to find them in.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

2 men flying their drone around the Cruz de Farro this morning. I was hoping for a quiet moment of reflection but instead I got noise. Please be mindful of other’s experiences here on the Camino. Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around. Thanks!

Well, I am with you, they may be legal, but that doesn't mean they're polite or reasonable.

Lots of things that are noisy are legal. People who really care about their fellow humans think about these things. People who fly drones are fundamentally selfish. Or dense, because they don't see the irritation they're causing.

Maybe when a plane gets knocked out of the sky, we will start thinking about them in a different way. Drones are valuable for research, military, or emergency uses. In my opinion, other uses should be limited. I believe the laws are wrong..

I'm sorry. Some things are not nice, not polite, not even reasonable. Flying around noisy and potentially lethal objects through the air near people is one of those.

 

[tpmchugh]

2 men flying their drone around the Cruz de Farro this morning. I was hoping for a quiet moment of reflection but instead I got noise. Please be mindful of other’s experiences here on the Camino. Fly your drones when pilgrims aren’t around. Thanks!

Could care less about drones or photographers shooting anything that stands still. My biggest bugbear is cyclists who have no social awareness. Standing on the mound at the Cruz waving their bikes in the air and then knocking me over on the path down when they should have been on the road a meter or do from the path. They buy expensive bikes then won't spend a couple of euro more for a bell or horn. They become obsessed with speed on downhills with no consideration for walking pilgrims. Give me drone operators any day. Btw, I don't have it in for all cyclists. The majority are decent people. Sat on the trail shortly after Portomarin one time treating a cyclists blisters. Only charged him his bike. He took the joke and stopped later on as he passed to thank me.et a a few but too many stories to repeat. So once again, no problem with drones. We don't see them that often and if they were pilgrims documenting their Camino, sure I get to drift away back to Spain when I sit at home watching their videos on YouTube. Life is too short to be getting annoyed at what is basically a trivial thing in this great big world

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Could care less about drones or photographers shooting anything that stands still. My biggest bugbear is cyclists who have no social awareness. Standing on the mound at the Cruz waving their bikes in the air and then knocking me over on the path down when they should have been on the road a meter or do from the path. They buy expensive bikes then won't spend a couple of euro more for a bell or horn. They become obsessed with speed on downhills with no consideration for walking pilgrims. Give me drone operators any day. Btw, I don't have it in for all cyclists. The majority are decent people.

I would venture to guess that you've never been buzzed by an aggressive drone. And I found most bicyclists on the Camino to be extremely polite, including myself.

I would take a bicyclist waving his bicycle over his head over being buzzed by a drone any day.

 

[tpmchugh]

I would venture to guess that you've never been buzzed by an aggressive drone. And I found most bicyclists on the Camino to be extremely polite, including myself.

I would take a bicyclist waving his bicycle over his head over being buzzed by a drone any day.

Stephan, I won't go into details but I have been buzzed by a lot worse than drones so they don't bother me. Read my post again. I am referring to a particular group of cyclists. The vast majority are just pilgrims like me

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Stephan, I won't go into details but I have been buzzed by a lot worse than drones so they don't bother me. Read my post again. I am referring to a particular group of cyclists. The vast majority are just pilgrims like me

I got what you meant, but what I think we're really talking about here is impoliteness.

There's etiquette to being a human, no matter what your activity, and some people just are rude. The polite drone pilots and bicyclists don't stand out as much as the impolite ones.

You and I and everyone else may complain about it, but in the end, it probably won't do much good anyway.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

There are many rules for drones, for instance:

https://uavcoach.com/drone-laws-in-spain/

Drone pilots must maintain a distance of 150 meters (492 feet) from buildings, and a distance of 50 meters (164 feet) or more from people not involved in the flight.

So by flying drones around the cruz de ferro, these drone pilots were doing something illegal. Because as I recall, there are two buildings, a picnic shelter and a church, within 50 or 75 meters
of the cross.
Although the regulations listed on that page seem a little contradictory because at the bottom, they say they can be flown around urban areas if they are less then 20 meters in the air. Obviously, you're going to be much closer to buildings.

OK my anti-drone ranting is done for the day. Peace.

 

[MinaKamina]

So by flying drones around the cruz de ferro, these drone pilots were doing something illegal. Because as I recall, there are two buildings, a picnic shelter and a church, within 50 or 75 meters
of the cross.
Although the regulations listed on that page seem a little contradictory because at the bottom, they say they can be flown around urban areas if they are less then 20 meters in the air. Obviously, you're going to be much closer to buildings.

OK my anti-drone ranting is done for the day. Peace.

Apart from distances etc. there are other legal aspects at work when flying a drone near the Cruz de Ferro.
In Europe, we have a right to privacy in a public space.
Say you are Alex Hamilton and you want a quiet moment near the Cruz de Ferro.
Person X who is operating the drone has to keep the legal distance and his camera may not zoom in on Alex Hamilton. Because Alex is not there in an official role. He is simply getting on with his life. He has not given permission to have his picture taken. Should the council of Foncebadón use images of Alex Hamilton in which he is recognizable, they are in the wrong. Alex can demand that these images are deleted from their website(s) and other publications.

Of course, this is a long way to go for someone who only wanted a quiet moment. The best solution imo would be to expand the official drone-free areas. Until that happens: report and keep on reporting.

 

[SabsP]

This link to GDPR in Europe can provide more information.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/data-protection/data-protection-regulation/#:~:text=data%20protection%20rules-,What%20is%20the%20GDPR%3F,the%201995%20data%20protection%20directive.

Spain.

Spain | European Data Protection Board

edpb.europa.eu

 

[Stephan the Painter]

l distance and his camera may not zoom in on Alex Hamilton. Because Alex is not there in an official role.
He is simply getting on with his life. He has not given permission to have his picture taken. Should the council of Foncebadón use images of Alex Hamilton in which he is recognizable, they are in the wrong. Alex can demand that these images are deleted from their website(s) and other publications.

Of course, this is a long way to go for someone who only wanted a quiet moment. The best solution imo would be to expand the official drone-free areas. Until that happens: report and keep on reporting.

As I said, I despise drones. And I certainly don’t want them flying around me for any reason.

But, if you’re talking about privacy regulations like that, you would also be saying people couldn’t take photographs with people on the street? Or anywhere, without getting a waiver.
Really?

People do this all the time, and both amateurs and professionals, news organizations, etc., publish or post images with recognizable faces of people they didn’t get to ask permission from.

I’m not a legal scholar, and I certainly couldn’t interpret these laws in a meaningful way, but I have difficulty believing that this is prohibited. Because it’s impossible to enforce.

 

[C clearly]

But, if you’re talking about privacy regulations like that, you would also be saying people couldn’t take photographs with people on the street? Or anywhere, without getting a waiver.
Really?

Yes, there are regulations around that. However, we have no legal advisory team on the forum, and all of the forum opinions on this issue must be considered as internet chatter.

 

[MinaKamina]

Yes, there are regulations around that. However, we have no legal advisory team on the forum, and all of the forum opinions on this issue must be considered as internet chatter.

Seriously?

 

[MinaKamina]

I am really lost for words. Many of us give our time and energy to explain how things in Europe are different from other continents. And then a MODERATOR of all people calls our efforts OPINIONS and INTERNET CHATTER??

Whatever happened to being kind? to begin with? a bit of gratitude? manners?

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I'm reporting on a non-selfish use of a drone here. On a local walk in a state park early this spring we encountered a drone and then its pilot. He was searching the park for someone's lost dog (white dog, bare trees and brown fallen leaves). We called the dog's owner and she was grateful for the man's favor.

 

[Purple Backpack]

I put my umbrella up when I see/hear a drone.

 

[C clearly]

I am really lost for words. Many of us give our time and energy to explain how things in Europe are different from other continents. And then a MODERATOR of all people calls our efforts OPINIONS and INTERNET CHATTER??

Whatever happened to being kind? to begin with? a bit of gratitude? manners?

My apologies if I seemed rude. I am dismayed that my efforts to put things in context have been so badly received. It was not intended to be personal or ungrateful.

I will log out now so as to cause no further damage.

 

[Former member 104756]

Threads about drones always seem to go badly. This one no exception.
Some have strong opinions one way or another. Some try to provide context or a different perspective. Is there any more needed on the subject? Now it seems to be causing more harm than good. Can this thread be closed?