Does anyone NOT like Pacerpoles?

[Kiwi-family]

Has anyone used them and not liked them?
I had never considered using poles until I read about them on this forum. That is to say, when trekking in Thailand, I used a bit of bamboo on steep downhills to try to alleviate a tears-inducing knee pain, and in NZ bush I carry an old stick....but the thought that there are real proper poles was a new idea to me.
I've borrowed a pair of Lekis, which are OK, but Pacerpoles *sound* so much better. Certainly I've found positive reviews on this forum - but are there any bad experiences?
Just wondering.

 

[Kitsambler]

Well - I should point out that none of the big American outfitters (REI, Altrec, Summit Hut, Backcountry, Moosejaw, EMS, etc) carry the PacerPoles, so most Americans manage just fine with the Leki or Black Diamond poles which they do carry, for all the challenging AT and PCT through-hikes and the extensive backpacking in the Sierras and Rockies.

However, I am not one of them. I have used PacerPoles for three different walks in three different years. Last year a German couple offered to buy them off of me - "name any price" - and I refused. They helped save my life this year. Several friends also have them, swear by them, wouldn't use anything else, and evangelize passionately.

What is so distinctive about the PacerPole design, apart from the very comfortable and ergonomic angled hand-grip, is the broad flange at the base of the hand-grip, which allows you to press down quite effectively, both for going uphill and for going downhill.

They are worth every penny, but they are not cheap. It is possible to walk a camino with less expensive poles. As usual, "your mileage may vary".

 

[catsmom]

I had my Pacer Poles sent from the UK to Australia and used them from Sarria to Santiago. My back isn't in great condition, and they certainly make for an easier walk. In fact, I found that they have a completely natural action, and I certainly wouldn't go walking without them. I am technically inept, and did need some help to get them extended at the beginning and down again for packing into my rucksack, but I'm probably one in a thousand that doesn't get that sort of thing right! Basically, I think they are worth every cent.

 

[dougfitz]

What is so distinctive about the PacerPole design, apart from the very comfortable and ergonomic angled hand-grip, is the broad flange at the base of the hand-grip, which allows you to press down quite effectively, both for going uphill and for going downhill.

I haven't used Pacer poles, but I have used technical poles for over a decade now, having been a single long stick user before that.

My observation is that there are far more people waste their money on a set of technical poles than any other single piece of kit - because they are not instructed in the correct use of the poles for trekking, or don't take the time to learn. There are good instructional videos that are easy to find on the web. The US Leki site has excellent videos explaining their use (as well as videos for how to use Nordic walking poles - which is a completely different technique).

While I don't think Pacer poles offer any real technical advantages over other poles used correctly, the Pacer poles' big advantage appears to be that they are almost impossible to use incorrectly. The design of the hand grip ensures that.

Provided you are using them, and not leaving them attached to your pack, you are getting full value from your investment.

Regards,

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The Pacer Pole reputation for being expensive is not true! They are more than discount trekking poles, but are less than most Lekis!

They are not interchangeable between hands, so if you break one, you are stuck with a one-sided pole. That convinced me to get the metal rather than carbon fiber. Metal is more likely to bend, so it can be straightened to a useable condition. Carbon will snap, and you will have a very expensive toothpick.

They, quite simply, are better! I am on my second set of rubber tips.

 

[Kitsambler]

I am on my second set of rubber tips.

Oh thanks for the reminder! I need to get new tips myself.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I got two caminos, over 1,000 km on my first set.

 

[Abbeydore]

I hope to get the rest of my life on my Pacers(there's a pun there, hope not to need a battery.......)......they are wonderful(& yes have used leki's too)

Can send mine to you in Pommy land if you wish........carbon are best!

 

[fraluchi]

I got two caminos, over 1,000 km on my first set.

Rubber tips. Fair assessment. I had to find some in Carrion de las Condes during the third "francés". :roll: Hate the tickety-tick sound :mrgreen:

 

[Kitsambler]

How long do you estimate the rubber tips will last?

So far, I've walked 12 weeks in Europe with them (x ~15 km/day) and likely twice that distance at home on training walks (usually I have my hands full with the dog). That makes roughly 3700 km or 2300 miles, and they are just now to the point where I ought to replace (but have not worn through yet).

 

[Kiwi-family]

Thanks for all those replies.

 

[DesertRain]

Love, love, love them. With my bum knee, they make all of the difference.

While I don't think Pacer poles offer any real technical advantages over other poles used correctly, the Pacer poles' big advantage appears to be that they are almost impossible to use incorrectly. The design of the hand grip ensures that.

My experience varies a bit from this analysis. Before getting the Pacer Poles, I used lekis and komperdell poles. Although they accomplished about 80% of what the Pacer Poles do, the extra 20% makes a big difference on long walks. This difference in not so much in the performance of the poles as in the comfort.... which I guess leads to a performance difference. Basically, on "standard" trekking poles, the wrist straps are supposed to take the strain/weight/pressure; this pressure is concentrated on the outside of the wrist. On Pacer Poles, you can extend the pressure across a much larger area: the outside of the hand, the palm, the "ball" (?)of the hand (i.e., the base of the thumb). Unlike standard poles, this allows you to vary your grip, shifting which part of the hand takes the most pressure. I find that all of this leads to the ability to walk comfortably for longer periods and place more weight on the poles than the standard ones with less fatigue.

The one thing I do NOT like about Pacer Poles if the fact that the handles can get a bit clammy and even (almost) slippery due to perspiration on hot days (I live in the Arizona desert where we have PLENTY of those). My easy solution is to wear very light, thin, un-padded bicycling gloves. This, however, does not come close to outweighing the advantages IMHO.

All of that said, use what works for you. There is no one solution that is perfect for everyone. Buen Camino.

 

[newfydog]

Basically, on "standard" trekking poles, the wrist straps are supposed to take the strain/weight/pressure; this pressure is concentrated on the outside of the wrist.

There is no one solution that is perfect for everyone. Buen Camino.

Having spent my life cross country skiing up to 100 days a year, I would not want the push to come from anywhere but the strap. You don't need an grip fixed at a static angle with an anatomic strap and a loose hold on the grip---the grip is held very lightly and the hand swings away from it as the angle changes. Works for me, but might not be as natural as angled grip for someone who didn't grow up with poles.

Be certain to put your hand up through the strap so that the strap pressure is on the entire palm, not just the wrist.

 

[dougfitz]

A couple of comments:

That makes roughly 3700 km or 2300 miles, and they are just now to the point where I ought to replace (but have not worn through yet).

I find that I am much harder than this on rubber tips. I used two complete pairs of the Leki walking foot on the Camino in 2010. These normally last me three or four months in normal circumstances, ie somewhere 450-600km. I don't expect the normal rubber tips to last anywhere near that long if they are getting solid use. Mind you, I don't fairy tap my poles either.

the wrist straps are supposed to take the strain/weight/pressure; this pressure is concentrated on the outside of the wrist.

This would indicate to me that you might not have been using the wrist strap correctly. If poles are used as demonstrated on the Leki site and in other places, the pressure on the strap is on the top of the wrist and the base of the palm opposite the thumb. I also agree with newfydog - if the pressure is coming from anywhere but the strap, then the action being used is wrong, and getting the strap right is almost the single most important thing.

Regards,

 

[DesertRain]

This would indicate to me that you might not have been using the wrist strap correctly. If poles are used as demonstrated on the Leki site and in other places, the pressure on the strap is on the top of the wrist and the base of the palm opposite the thumb. I also agree with newfydog - if the pressure is coming from anywhere but the strap, then the action being used is wrong, and getting the strap right is almost the single most important thing.

You have provided a better description of proper strap use than I did. Having used standard poles the way you describe for a couple of years, I still stand by my experience that the handles of Pacer Poles allow for more hand positions, comfort and flexibility. Additionally, there seems to be much more room for "user error" with conventional poles. However, to each his/her own.

Like beds (and pillows and shoes), I do not think that there is one "correct" answer. But having slept on feather beds, memory foam beds, water beds (sorry..... it was the 70's!), air mattresses, Sleep Number beds, futons, tatami mats, etc., I prefer a Sleep Number set to 80 with a 2 inch pillow top. And for trekking poles, I prefer Pacer Poles. You may not. What I do notice, is that no one who has used them has answered the original poster's question in the affirmative.

Keep walking!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

no one who has used them has answered the original poster's question in the affirmative.

Non-users do imagine a lot of things that are not true! Skiing derives power from the poles, while trekking does not (unless you are doing Nordic walking as an exercise). The stress on hands from straps or Pacer Poles is more from stability and a bit of extra lift. If one uses a death grip on the handles of Pacer Poles, fingers can cramp, so grip them loosely unless the terrain calls for something firmer.

They really are better for me, and I have been using trekking poles for a couple of decades. Eight pair are stored in my garage. Avoid using anything the way Joost does in "The Way." You could inadvertently spear your toes or your companion.

 

[dougfitz]

Non-users do imagine a lot of things that are not true! Skiing derives power from the poles, while trekking does not (unless you are doing Nordic walking as an exercise).

The physics of pole use is exactly the same whether they are trekking poles, nordic walking poles or ski poles. The force applied to the top of the pole is applied through the pole to the ground. The angle of the pole determines how much of that force becomes vertical lift, and how much becomes horizontal push. So the long poles used in skiing and nordic walking generate more push, because of the greater angle, while the more vertical trekking pole generates more lift.

Pacer poles do not change this basic relationship.

Additionally, there seems to be much more room for "user error" with conventional poles.

I agree completely. I think I have already expressed the view that the greatest advantage of Pacer poles is that they appear almost impossible to use incorrectly. In contrast, conventional poles are relatively easy to get wrong, and most people I see using them do so. While companies like Leki now have good on-line video, when I have seen sales staff selling poles, they invariably offer only a superficial explanation of their proper use, or none at all.

What I do notice, is that no one who has used them has answered the original poster's question in the affirmative.

Well, I take an agnostic view on this. Its not that I do NOT LIKE Pacer poles, but that I do not LIKE Pacer poles. One day I may get to try a pair, and then decide whether I am neutral about this, or otherwise.

Regards,

 

[Kitsambler]

The physics of pole use is exactly the same whether they are trekking poles, nordic walking poles or ski poles. The force applied to the top of the pole is applied through the pole to the ground. The angle of the pole determines how much of that force becomes vertical lift, and how much becomes horizontal push. So the long poles used in skiing and nordic walking generate more push, because of the greater angle, while the more vertical trekking pole generates more lift.

Pacer poles do not change this basic relationship.

Speaking as a professional mechanical engineer, the issue is not how the force is transmitted through the pole. The issue is the biomechanical advantage provided by the PacerPole handle architecture.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Most of the pilgrimage is straight ahead on level ground, like cross country skiing, but not requiring real thrusting. All the forward motion in cross country skiing originates with the poles, which allow the legs to add power. Without poles, a cross country skier would pretty much just slide his skis back and forth in place unless he adds a sideways skating motion! In walking, the bulk of the effort on the flat and straight is from the legs. The poles add balance and a bit of extra forward motion, but they are not the key as they are in skiing. Poles are a supplement. If the hands grip the poles, even without much weight being borne by the poles, I think you will find that your hands cramp. After misusing my poles once, I could not even grip a fork at dinner.

On varied terrain, the poles take more force, lateral for stability on some terrain, braking for downhills, and lift for uphills. The user can grip the poles, but it is tiring. Putting the stress on the straps and wrist is less tiring, and probably will allow you to hold your fork and wine glass at dinner.

It is not necessary to grip Pacer Poles tightly; just enough to guide the pole plant. After that, the hand-shaped grips take the weight rather than the straps. It may sound as though the grip will be tiring, but it is not, as all Pacer Pole users will tell you. A lot of physics knowledge is not necessary.

They are simply a better invention for many pole users.

 

[er325]

Hmm I wore out both sets of rubber tips within 2 weeks. Was I doing something wrong? I did the Norte so lots of asphalt and hills...

 

[newfydog]

. All the forward motion in cross country skiing originates with the poles, which allow the legs to add power. Without poles, a cross country skier would pretty much just slide his skis back and forth in place unless he adds a sideways skating motion!
.

Ummm let me guess. You don't ski much? The kick wax or fishscales on the skis allow for most of the propulsion to come from the legs. We frequently ski without poles, up and down hills for technique work. A skier only goes to pure pole power when speeds are too fast for the legs to kick. Racers do a lot of double poling, recreational skiers use poles as much for balance as forward drive.

It is true, the skiers pole follow through is longer, and the angle finishes higher than a walkers, but there are some wonderful nordic strap systems that work well on hiking poles, and should not be written off if you have not used them.

 

[dougfitz]

The issue is the biomechanical advantage provided by the PacerPole handle architecture.

Can you explain what you mean, because I have read all the material provided on the Pacerpole site, and couldn't make sense of it at the time. Maybe I'm not seeing something here, but it seems to me the grip makes no difference on an individual's ability to exert a downward force that is transmitted through the strap or grip to the pole shaft and to the ground. You appear to be seeing something here that I'm not getting.

I do accept that proper use of the strap or grip to the alternative 'death grip' does give a significant advantage.

Regards,

 

[DesertRain]

Experience > Theory

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I have a couple of pairs of the Nordic walking poles with the partial gloves. They are very comfortable and convenient, but I use them mostly for around the block. Neither pair collapses as much as the Pacer Poles, so I have never taken them on a camino. No, I haven't skied recently, and I know my back-and-forth comment was simplistic. Yes, the dynamic is much more complex; a case of KISS for the difference between poles for walking and poles for skiing. You would be hard pressed to go straight ahead on skis without poles or a sideways pushing action, fish scales notwithstanding. I can go forward walking by simply leaning forward and keeping my balance with leg motion.

 

[newfydog]

You would be hard pressed to go straight ahead on skis without poles or a sideways pushing action, fish scales notwithstanding.

Actually that can be done no problem. Up hill. Heck, my next door neighbor won an Olympic silver medal in a race where she broke a pole (classic, no skating allowed).

We do plenty of xc skiing on deep, ungroomed snow where the speed and pole use is nearly exactly analogous to walking. Don't dismiss years of pole use by the skiers --- they have developed some good systems. Excel experimented with a similar platform on the grip in the 1980's and many skiers found they worked better after sawing the bottom platform off. I know some of you love your pacerpoles, but there are other approaches, equally well thought out.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

We are getting pretty far from Pacer Poles here, but

Diagonal Stride

The basic diagonal stride is the heart and soul of classic XC ski technique. In fact, when most non-skiers are asked to picture XC skiing in their mind, the diagonal stride is the first image that typically pops up.

Utilizing an opposite driving leg and forward poling arm, at it's most basic level the diagonal stride looks like a sliding walk. Once perfected, the diagonal stride is one of the beautiful motions we can do on this planet. It is, quite literally, dancing on snow.

Basics:

Start without poles and on a flat area with firm tracks. This will help develop your balance and keep things easy. Now, imagine you are a child wearing socks on a newly waxed kitchen floor. You would scoot-slide across the floor using a driving motion with one leg as your opposite arm swings forward for momentum and balance. This scoot slide is the essence of the diagonal stride.

Start out with short experimental scoot slides (baby slides are just fine at first). As you get comfortable with being on the skis, progress to longer and more integrated motions. Don't worry too much about what your arms are doing at first except to make sure that you are not waving them all around. During the scoot slide, your upper body should stay relaxed, leaning slightly forward, and your shoulders should have a rounded, gorilla look just as if you were getting a good shoulder rub (not a bad idea for after your first day out on skis!).

After even as little as a few minutes gliding you should notice that if you get your weight up and over the forward ski (as opposed to sitting back just a wee bit), the ski will glide forward with quite a bit of freedom and power. Most beginners get a taste of a real gliding ski even in the first five minutes on snow. Note that this can be somewhat unsettling at first and your first instinct is going to be to sit back when you feel the ski really glide. What a professional instructor will encourage you to do is to instead "chase" that free glide out front. Although you will wobble a little more, your body will adjust with practice. Trust that the path to the beauty and power of XC ski classic technique lies in finding ways to seek out that forward glide!

One useful and very easy drill to "feel" how much you want to drive forward is to stand still on a perfectly flat area. Have your poles in your hands, plant them comfortably in front of you, and lean on them with most of your weight. Now put all your weight on one ski while drawing the other ski back behind you as straight as possible. With the leg you are standing on, flex your ankle and knee very slightly and go as far forward with your weighted hip as you can. Keep your hip and butt high (not sitting) as you go forward! That position - called a "high hip forward" position - is the ideal position for getting maximum drive out of the classic motion. Although it generally takes awhile before skiers can confidently execute this ideal position, knowing what you are after feels like when you start out can be very useful. When practicing your slide and glide always try to "lead" the motion with this high hip position.

Once you feel like you have a feeling for the motion with your legs you will want to add your poles to the mix. The key here is--do what comes natural! You know how to walk and run opposite leg-opposite arm and that is exactly what you do in skiing. If you think about the motion too much you'll screw it up...so don't think! When planting your poles try to keep your arms at shoulder-width spacing and with the pole angled down towards your feet. Your arm should have a slight bend to it when planting, then should go down smoothly past your hips and extend fully out the back. Try not to cross in front of your body with your poles (wasted effort). What you are ultimately after is a pendulum motion with a relaxed follow-through and recovery.

Double Pole

When the terrain or snow conditions make the diagonal stride too slow to be efficient you can switch to the double pole motion. Typically used on slightly downhill sections and fast flat sections, the double pole simply involves reaching ahead with both arms, planting both poles simultaneously, and poling through with both arms while keeping your legs in a relaxed, but fairly straight position. The poles should plant in the snow angled back towards your toes and with shoulder-width spacing.

When reaching forward and planting the poles, your arms should have the same position as a single forward arm in diagonal stride...that is, a slight bend to them when planting a comfortable "reach" in front of you, then pushing down smoothly past your hips and extend fully out the back. Try to make sure that you help your arms by compressing at your stomach (ever so slightly) and leaning forward at the waist. This adds power and saves arm energy.

The legs will remain fairly uninvolved in a basic double pole but as you become more comfortable with the motion, you will find yourself adding power with a subtle forward push with your hips each time you reach forward with the poles. Be sure to avoid "sitting down" when you push thru with the poles (very common error).

Since the double pole is done on faster snow or terrain, the motion will be repeated many times at varying rates of speed and with varying amounts of glide. When you feel your momentum slow and the double pole feels more difficult to complete, switch back to the diagonal stride or incorporate the more challenging double pole with a kick.

Double Pole with a Kick

This is an intermediate skill some beginners can use on flat sections or gradual uphills. The best way to think of this moition is as a gear (much like a bicycle) that lies between the diagonal stride and double pole. You begin with the same reach forward with both arms as in the double pole. However...instead of remaining quiet with your legs...when you reach forward in this technique, you add a small drive forward onto one leg. This forward drive onto one leg should look precisely the same as the position your leg is in when you drive forward onto one leg in the diagonal stride. The "back" leg should be fully extended (yet relaxed) out the back.

Once you are fully extended forward (both arms and one driving leg), you pull thru with your arms as you match the forward leg with your other leg. You then repeat the motion now driving forward onto the opposite leg (legs reversing roles).

This motion is very powerful and very useful in various terrain and snow situations. Yet, it does take a fair amount of strength, balance, and agility to do correctly. Having a professional instructor work with you on this skill is essential.

You need a lateral foot push, or poles, to cross country ski. Lacking both, you will mostly stay in one place, sliding your skis back and forth, until the friction of the fish scales gives you some momentum.

 

[newfydog]

Sorry if I got your hackles up falcon. I merely wanted to point out that skis pole technology IS applicable to hiking poles, and the straps are darn comfortable. While some ski techniques are different from walking others are very similar. Sort of like shoes made for running can work pretty well walking.

As far as this:

You need a lateral foot push, or poles, to cross country ski. Lacking both, you will mostly stay in one place, sliding your skis back and forth,.

Here's a nice video of someone doing far more than staying in one place without poles. He is a racer, so when he adds poles it is the high angle poling, not as analogous to a walking motion as a slower ski tourer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Vue10ItXg

 

[Deleted member 3000]

"Basics of Diagonal Slides"

Just what I am saying!

 

[Abbeydore]

What is so distinctive about the PacerPole design, apart from the very comfortable and ergonomic angled hand-grip, is the broad flange at the base of the hand-grip, which allows you to press down quite effectively, both for going uphill and for going downhill.

I haven't used Pacer poles, but I have used technical poles for over a decade now, having been a single long stick user before that.

My observation is that there are far more people waste their money on a set of technical poles than any other single piece of kit - because they are not instructed in the correct use of the poles for trekking, or don't take the time to learn. There are good instructional videos that are easy to find on the web. The US Leki site has excellent videos explaining their use (as well as videos for how to use Nordic walking poles - which is a completely different technique).

While I don't think Pacer poles offer any real technical advantages over other poles used correctly, the Pacer poles' big advantage appears to be that they are almost impossible to use incorrectly. The design of the hand grip ensures that.

Provided you are using them, and not leaving them attached to your pack, you are getting full value from your investment.

Regards,

Come-onn Doug,
I think it's high time you tried a pair of Pacerpoles, I think if you sent your reply to Heather(PP designer), she would give you a very different answer.......& I reckon you'd probably purchase some.

She recently added that depending on how you are feeling,that is want to take big strides or small strides the then the pole should be @ different lengths.........& yes I guess that would apply to any pole of staff too, thinking about? Love your comments Doug.
David

 

[dougfitz]

I think if you sent your reply to Heather(PP designer), she would give you a very different answer.

David, what else do you expect she would do. Of course she would promote her own product. I hardly think self-promotion would be any recommendation.

I have gone to the effort of reading what articles have been published, including some rather dense papers she has written, and reviewing the material she provides through her web site. I remain sceptical, and certainly don't intend to make any outlays for Pacer poles when I don't see that they have any advantages over other brands of technical pole.

Nonetheless, I will maintain an open mind, and should I ever be in a position to try Pacer poles, I will do so.

Regards,

 

[Kiwi-family]

I certainly don't intend to make any outlays for Pacer poles when I don't see that they have any advantages over other brands of technical pole.

Nonetheless, I will maintain an open mind, and should I ever be in a position to try Pacer poles, I will do so.

Regards,

Aha, this is possibly key - you have already found something that works for you, and so why would you spend more money? I get that. However, I am in the position of wondering about whether to purchase anything at all (and leaning towards wanting poles to solve my knee issues)...I have seen rave reviews about Lekis. I have seen rave reviews about Pacerpoles. I have seen rave reviews from people who switched from Lekis to Pacer....I'm just wondering if anyone has tried Pacerpoles and NOT liked them. So far, the only people writing "not necessarilly in favour of them" have not tried them. (please note I have understood the distinction between *not LIKING* and *NOT liking*)

We leave in three weeks and as the poles need to get to NZ before then, I'm thinking I need to make a decision pretty pronto so I have time to get used to them before arriving in Spain.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

So far, the only people writing "not necessarilly in favour of them" have not tried them.

Do you think? :evil:

 

[Kiwi-family]

falcon269 you're a rascal.....and I just ordered a set of poles
pacer of course!
if I turn out to be the first person to use them and not like them, so be it....but they will take them back and refund my money, so it's not much of a risk really

 

[Abbeydore]

I imagine that their competitors hate them :wink:

Thank you Ping'....... :mrgreen: :lol:

 

[peregrino_tom]

I've had my pacerpoles for about 7 years, so they may have brought out a more hi-tec version since then. Here's my view, but bear in mind that I now prefer to walk with one walking stick-type pole and I have no current issues with my joints (touch wood).
I found the pacer poles quite large and little heavier than standard poles at first. But they came into their own on steep hills and mountain paths. You can really get some leverage pushing you up and best of all going down steep rocky paths, the ergonomic handle allows you to place the tip with much greater accuracy on the small place you identify that won't slip - and it's sturdy so you can trust it.
For me they'd be a bit too technical and unnecessary for the camino frances unless I had knees that needed more support than standard poles. I think they'd suit quite a few people on the camino primitivo.
Abbeydore: if you want to borrow mine for a few months, you're welcome - send me a message
cheers, tom

 

[vinsman]

After reading about Pacerpoles in the forums, I ordered a pair from the UK. I loved that the company sent me an email with delivery info, and links to video's for proper use. I really like using them, the grips are great although they get a little wet from sweat as I walk. Gloves solved that problem.

 

[Abbeydore]

falcon269 you're a rascal.....and I just ordered a set of poles
pacer of course!
if I turn out to be the first person to use them and not like them, so be it....but they will take them back and refund my money, so it's not much of a risk really

Yes falcon is a rascal :wink: , it's ok, he knows it & has a soft spot for kiwi's too, ask him. He also wears an Aarn rucksack;
Please keep us posted on your opinions of you new Pacerpoles as they should arrive early next week.

Buen Camino
David

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I do not use poles when I walk, but I deal with plenty of pilgrims who do.

The only problem I have with Pacer Poles is how attached people are to them. Users resist leaving their poles in the entryway with Lesser Poles, for fear of losing of having them stolen. They take them along to the shower, to dinner, to bed maybe even... It´s like a young teenager in love for the first time, determined that every other boy is looking at his girl and is determined to take her away!

After a scan of this thread, you can see how downright evangelical Pacer users are. They develop their own techniques, rituals, insider terminology, diagrams and videos and "science" to support and spread their fundamental beliefs. A Pacer user can spot a fellow believer from 50 meters, and they sometimes hold little gatherings at corner tables to compare their rubber tips and accrued mileage and improved footstrike and wrist-strap angles.

If someone offers to lend you his Pacer poles, it is a deeply felt gesture. Just be careful. He may be fishing for converts, and you may soon find your trusty old walking cane is no longer enlightened enough for you... :shock:

 

[Abbeydore]

This is so true, well said, when are you going to try a pair.........

 

[FaithandGratitude]

I do not use poles when I walk, but I deal with plenty of pilgrims who do.

The only problem I have with Pacer Poles is how attached people are to them. Users resist leaving their poles in the entryway with Lesser Poles, for fear of losing of having them stolen. They take them along to the shower, to dinner, to bed maybe even... It´s like a young teenager in love for the first time, determined that every other boy is looking at his girl and is determined to take her away!

After a scan of this thread, you can see how downright evangelical Pacer users are. They develop their own techniques, rituals, insider terminology, diagrams and videos and "science" to support and spread their fundamental beliefs. A Pacer user can spot a fellow believer from 50 meters, and they sometimes hold little gatherings at corner tables to compare their rubber tips and accrued mileage and improved footstrike and wrist-strap angles.

If someone offers to lend you his Pacer poles, it is a deeply felt gesture. Just be careful. He may be fishing for converts, and you may soon find your trusty old walking cane is no longer enlightened enough for you... :shock:

Oh Rebekah, I laughed out loud so much on this one; my neighbour must be wondering what's going on! Thanks so much for the warning; I have bought my pacer poles for my first camino next month but am duly conscious now not to become a 'Pacer Bore'! So funny the various obsessive threads on Camino minutie be it 'light weight packs', 'poncho vs raincoat' etc etc (mind you I soak it all up as much as the next person'!)

 

[FaithandGratitude]

Oooh, thanks Ping, I feel truly honoured :wink:

 

[newfydog]

You could probably retool this joke about any passionate group:

How do you find the pacerpole users at the albergue? You don't, they'll find you!

 

[Kiwi-family]

Oh no. I've never been in the "in group". I've always been one of the different sorts. I have eight kids, I've lived with my inlaws, I knit socks, I bake our own bread from wheat ground myslef, I raise chickens in suburbia, I educate said kids at home, I walk instead of driving when possible, I read instead of watching tv, I don't like shopping......and now I join an exclusive club. How will that work?

By the way, I have only had my Pacerpoles for a week, but yes, I do love them. Believe it or not, using them even after such a short time has improved my posture ALL the time. However, I wil not become evangelistic about these. My philosophy with contentious issues (like parenting and education and travelling and religion and now pacerpoles) is to "know my own position, be willing to share it with anyone who asks, but otherwise don't bug the rest of the world". However, I do find a quiet enthusiasm for any of the above (with the exception so far of the latter) often does lead to questions.

 

[majorspydr]

I live in the US and found a company called Exerstrider. They market a lot to old people for walking poles. I bought a pair online for $90 (and free Shipping) I have been very pleased with them. The have multiple types of rubber tips you can use as well as a tungsten tip. They are collapsible and light weight. Never tried Pacerpoles but they seemed a bit over priced. I depart 11 Sept for the Camino.

 

[magdelanye]

I got to be very fond of my wooden pilgrim stick and just feel kind of turned off by techno gear of any kind. Does no one use those single wooden poles anymore?

 

[dougfitz]

I got to be very fond of my wooden pilgrim stick and just feel kind of turned off by techno gear of any kind. Does no one use those single wooden poles anymore?

There are plenty of pilgrims who use a simple wooden pole, and others with modern trekking poles who use them no differently and so don't get any of the benefits of having a 'high tech' device in their hands.

As a matter of interest, how far are you taking your avoidance of 'techno gear'. Does that extend to using only natural fibres and not using any plastics etc in boots, clothing and your pack? I would be interested to know how you manage.

Regards,

 

[magdelanye]

thanks for getting back to me, dougfitz.
I am not in fact a purist....but...I do avoid the plastic gear as much as possible(tho I am very fond of the rain poncho I got there.)

Mainly, I am bewildered by those who feel the need to take their mobile devices. I am getting the impression that the camino has changed a lot since I was there 5 yrs ago. I am so eager to get away from the sight of people ignoring their surroundings for their stupid phones and all of a sudden I'm nervous that this is a universal phenomenum. I love meeting up with other kindred spirits on the camino,but the main attraction for me is the opportunity for solitude

 

[dougfitz]

pinghansen, I think you have just proved madgelanye's point!

 

[dougfitz]

So what point exactly did I prove?

This point:

I am getting the impression that the camino has changed a lot since I was there 5 yrs ago. I am so eager to get away from the sight of people ignoring their surroundings for their stupid phones and all of a sudden I'm nervous that this is a universal phenomenum.

 

[BlackDog]

I didn't see anyone using their smartphones while actually walking. But there are those who, like me, use them to contain guides, reference material, ebooks, music etc and consult them in the evening and possibly at rest stops.

I'm not interested in how others conduct their camino so long it's respectful to others. Those that are addicted to the feel of paper guides have to realise that technology has moved on just as it has from vellum rolls

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

 

[dougfitz]

Ah, so it's better to ignore the surroundings using a traditional guide book, than ignoring the surroundings by reading the same book from a smart-phone or e-book reader?

This appears to be a rather selective (and misleading) interpretation of the post.

The essential point being made was whether the camino had changed and people were more likely to be using electronic devices. You confirmed that. Now I'm not sure how to interpret your sensitivity about the peripheral issue of whether that is a good or bad thing. The poster appears to think it is a bad thing, you don't, I don't mind, but its not the point.

Those that are addicted to the feel of paper guides have to realise that technology has moved on just as it has from vellum rolls

I could point out that advances in technology might now offer more ways to obtain and use specific content, but they haven't yet replaced paper based technologies. To that extent, exponents of bleeding edge technologies need to realise there continues to be a place for these earlier technologies.

 

[grayland]

The subject has strayed a long way from a discussion on Pacerpoles.

There are those who are actually interested in the original subject so it may be a good idea to take the other discussions to another thread.
Thanks.

 

[magdelanye]

Logging in the last few times I was disappointed that there were no messages for me. I am glad that I went to this thread anyways and wow, thanks for all of the provocative replies. Sorry for diverting from the particular question, and yes,it might be an interesting thread in its own right, considering the impact of technology on the pigrimage experience.

I have to laugh at the thought of the ancient pilgrims with cellphones...and yes, I personally won't have one and am offended by phone culture in general...so it's really hard to admit that I see the point made by those who defend it as a resource tool, lighter and more up to date than any bunch of guidebooks. I cringe at the extra weight in my pack with the books I am planning to bring. And I am a bit overwhelmed by the plethora of information available!!!

Last time I went with one little giudebook, written in fact by my community librarian. She loved the phrase "in a little while you will come to..." and it often was I had no idea where I was, exactly. I used the internet ocassionally but only at night.(I still adhere to this policy) I totally agree with the live and let live approach to life in general and agree its for each pilgrim to find their own flow. I certainly believe that one must abandon oneself to the camino, and maybe at the bottom of all my objections to overemphasis on tecnology precludes that. How can oan one remain connected and let go at the same time?

 

[magdelanye]

I didn't see anyone using their smartphones while actually walking. But there are those who, like me, use them to contain guides, reference material, ebooks, music etc and consult them in the evening and possibly at rest stops.

I'm not interested in how others conduct their camino so long it's respectful to others. Those that are addicted to the feel of paper guides have to realise that technology has moved on just as it has from vellum rolls

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

Actually, I would love a vellum roll that I could cosult, with the entire route illuminated!
Lightweight, handy, with plenty of space for your own notes.
It's not the feel of paper I am addicted to, its more about not being reliant on a device with all the attendant frustrations.

Today, I gave my number to a friend, who whipped out his phone and took so long trying to enter it that I just suggested he write it down! And my original comments were partly in resonse to videos on this site showing pilgims walking and chatting on their devices!

Remember, technology is just an interface with reality, another layer of distraction from the search for essential being, or true self, the underying constant rather than the superficial.

 

[grayland]

Pacer Poles? Please return to the thread subject....PACER POLES

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I love my Pacer Poles, and in the morning darkness today, I had to retrieve them from someone who was trying to love them more!

I use them because my Parkinson's has slowed my nerve signal speed by 11%, and my balance is poor. Luis used his poles because he had one leg. We both saw our fill of nature. I hope you are not offended that we don't care what you think of our technology! I am sorry if we ruined YOUR Camino. Perhaps you can walk it again.

Pacer Poles are simply better!

 

[magdelanye]

I love my Pacer Poles, and in the morning darkness today, I had to retrieve them from someone who was trying to love them more!

I use them because my Parkinson's has slowed my nerve signal speed by 11%, and my balance is poor. Luis used his poles because he had one leg. We both saw our fill of nature. I hope you are not offended that we don't care what you think of our technology! I am sorry if we ruined YOUR Camino. Perhaps you can walk it again.
Falcon,
It's most disturbing to think of theives on the camino, but I am equally disturbed to think that you either misunderstood my last comment or felt it was patronizing because your irony is so off and elsewhere you have been direct.

So to be clear: I am not a purist,just mistrustful of tech and the endless comparing of toys/brands etc. maybe I dislike hyper-efficiency. f you need the poles, it's a differnt story.
I believe we are all called in different ways and whatever it takes is whatever it takes.
Merely, I prefer simplicity and living in the present, relating to my surroundings.
Certainly I do not not expect we are marching with the same program.At the same time, I do believe that as individuals we differ only in the details.I never even implied that you ruined my camino....and as I prepare to complete it next month I hate to think I have already offended someone I like.
my dad had parkinsons and i know that you are a champion on the camino.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

You quite artfully missed my point. It is not about need to; it is entirely about want to. Toss out your rulebook for the rest of us. Use it just for yourself.

 

[newfydog]

I watched an interesting show on the Continental Divide Trail last night. The trail runs 3100 miles from Canada to Mexico right down the divide. The entire trail takes 6 months and only about 30 people a year do the whole thing.

Thay interviewed and showed a number of the through hikers. No question, they were all tough, expert backpackers. Most of them used poles. Not one of them used the syncopated timing the Pacerpole people preach. They did a bit of that on some steep climbs, but for the most part used the threestep-plant timing you see people with walking sticks use. Just sayin'

 

[dougfitz]

Not one of them used the syncopated timing the Pacerpole people preach. They did a bit of that on some steep climbs, but for the most part used the threestep-plant timing you see people with walking sticks use.

What is referred to here as a threestep pattern in reality takes four steps to repeat, with the fourth step bringing the pole forward to re-start the pattern.

I am not sure what 'syncopated timing' might mean here. Leki, et al all recommend a two-step pattern with two poles, and this is a quite regular pattern that has no syncopation involved. I have very infrequently used a four-step pattern with two poles, usually to demonstrate how difficult it is to maintain. In contrast, it is easier to maintain a four-step pattern with a single pole, particularly on flat ground.

Once the going gets really steep, I find that I plant the pole where it gives the best support, and no longer maintain a rhythm linking foot-fall and pole placement.

If one looks at the underlying physics of the four step pattern, starting from when the pole is planted ahead of the walker, the forces involved are:

• Step 1 - pushing up and back
• Step 2 - mainly pushing up
• Step 3 - pushing up and forwards
• Step 4 - bring the pole forward to repeat the cycle.

.

It would defeat the purpose of using poles to be pushing back going up steep hills, or forwards on going down. So newfydog's observation that there was a switch to a two-step pattern going up steep hills is hardly surprizing.

Regards,

 

[Kitsambler]

It would defeat the purpose of using poles to be pushing back going up steep hills, or forwards on going down.

Hmm. Actually, I do push back going up steep hills (assisting in the forward progress) and forwards on the downhills (resisting the forward progress), with my Pacer Poles. Doesn't seem to be defeating the purpose at all.

 

[dougfitz]

It would defeat the purpose of using poles to be pushing back going up steep hills, or forwards on going down.

Hmm. Actually, I do push back going up steep hills (assisting in the forward progress) and forwards on the downhills (resisting the forward progress), with my Pacer Poles. Doesn't seem to be defeating the purpose at all.

I think we might be at odds over what 'back' and 'forwards' mean here.

 

[Abbeydore]

I love my Pacer Poles, and in the morning darkness today, I had to retrieve them from someone who was trying to love them more!

I use them because my Parkinson's has slowed my nerve signal speed by 11%, and my balance is poor. Luis used his poles because he had one leg.
Pacer Poles are simply better!

@ 89% you were still faster than me to the next pub/grub, & pleased you can do love affairs on your camino(s) (Hope you told him/her where they could order them from & could be with them in a few days :wink: )

 

[Tia Valeria]

I got to be very fond of my wooden pilgrim stick and just feel kind of turned off by techno gear of any kind. Does no one use those single wooden poles anymore?

We too use a single wooden stick, shaped like a shepherd's crook. We wouldn't use anything else as we like to have a free hand and not be tied up with poles, Pacer or any other make. Just our choice.
[Our only tech gear is a simple (call/text) mobile phone to call ahead for private beds or contact family if needed. Turned off 99% of the time it seldom needs charging. Our cameras use AA batteries.]
Any other wooden pole not Pacer pole folk out there?

 

[jl]

Just a comment about the rubber stoppers (from many posts back). Originally the Pacer Pole stoppers were all rubber and wore out very quickly. My first set only got me about 500 kms. However now the stoppers have a tiny bit of metal in the base of them which stops the spike from wearing the stopper out so quickly and now I think I go around 1,000 - 1,500kms before needing to replace them. Of course this is affected by the terrain and my last few pilgrimages have been on paths with a lot of road walking which wears them out much more quickly I find.

I won't sing the praises any more of Pacers - I have done that elsewhere. However I will sing the praises of the company, who I have found to be extraordinarily helpful and obliging.

Regards, Janet

 

[Melbrob]

falcon,
I too have a 'slow signal' problem with my left leg. My Pacers have improved my cadence and balance greatly. Even the locals have accepted my taking them into the cafe when I treat my self to coffee at the 6km point on my training walks. Coffee is essential during training as well!

Rob @ Melbourne

 

[jstorybook]

I Like them but will the airlines allow them on flights? I suppose they might in checked baggage--but what about carry ons?

 

[Kitsambler]

I'm afraid most air security rules seem to consign hiking poles to the luggage hold. I put my disassembled Pacer Poles, the pocket knife, and anything else unsecure in my collapsible day bag and check that. This leaves the main pack and 95% of the equipment with me as carry on. If the checked kit goes missing at least it's then a minor inconvenience rather than a shows topper.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Bend carbon, and you have a broken pole. Bend the metal, and it is bent and may not collapse, but you still have two poles.

 

[Kitsambler]

I have the carbon 3-section Pacer Poles, and have used them for three years so far, still going strong. They survived a major ravine-slope crash-slide-fall with no ill effects.

 

[grayland]

The weight of the alloy Pacers do put me off. I don't fancy having to carry my wife's pacers for her on the VdlP when she is not using them.
They really do seem heavy! Maybe I should sell them and get her some carbon ones. :idea:

 

[dougfitz]

The weight of the alloy Pacers do put me off. I don't fancy having to carry my wife's pacers for her on the VdlP when she is not using them.
They really do seem heavy! Maybe I should sell them and get her some carbon ones. :idea:

Walking poles, pacer or otherwise, only make sense when they are being used. They should only be carried into and out of airports, and when on other transport. The rest of the time, they should be in one's hands. To do otherwise is to carry an unnecessary dead weight.

Regards,

 

[Tia Valeria]

So true Dougfitz. That is why we like our single wooden sticks. One hand always free. Strong enough to support our weight and the added benefits of the curved top to pull brambles etc out of the path, hang over our arm/gate while having a drink etc. No expectation of just carrying them on our packs.

 

[Kiwi-family]

Hi all

Just a quick quesiton for the people that have bought and used the Pacer Poles on the Camino.

Did you buy the Carbon or Alloy?

The Carbon looks good because its lighter and folds down further....but the alloy is stronger if you take a tumble.

Would appreciate your thoughts

I bought alloy to avoid ending up with a broken toothpick if something dreadful should happen. Don't regret the decision at all.
As for the weight....you know, it's a funny thing, but my arms feel heavier when I am walking without my poles.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Pacer Poles? Please return to the thread subject....PACER POLES

To reiterate!

This is not about talking people out of using trekking poles, just whether Pacer Poles rule supreme. You folks with downed tree limbs and bourdons, put on your cowled robes, and start your own thread.

:wink:

 

[RENSHAW]

I hate them!!! Ban them outright - that menacing clattering noise - they grate on me , much like grinding wool between ones back teeth. :twisted:

 

[Sagalouts]

Ditto :x
oh and as the op asked "does anyone not like pacerpoles" If one is sticking to the thread and being picky it should be confined to those who don't like the things :wink:

Ian

 

[Sojourner47]

.....

 

[Sojourner47]

.....

 

[grayland]

Sorry, if that's construed as a "personal attack", - not meant as such - lest some jobsworth moderator will lock this thread......

Jobsworth :arrow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobsworth :shock: :shock:

 

[Deleted member 3000]

they grate on me, much like grinding wool between ones back teeth

A sentiment not unique to Pacer Poles. Smoking. Talking. Cell phones. iPods. Trucks. Mouth breathers. Mullets. Cow patties. Drunks. Pick your irritant; you can find it on the Camino.

 

[Sojourner47]

........

 

[RENSHAW]

Smoking. Talking. Cell phones. iPods. Trucks. Mouth breathers. Mullets. Cow patties. Drunks. Pick your irritant; you can find it on the Camino.

Whiners , fuddy duddies , small kids , soaking rain , bedbugs , large groups , CYCLISTS without bells .......pacerpoles clattering ........... like screaching chalk on a blackboard. :mrgreen:

 

[grayland]

I did sell my wife's alloy Pacer Poles and have the carbon on order.

I can't actually think of any situation on my Caminos that would have come close to bending/breaking a pole. Not too worried about the problem.

 

[Kiwi-family]

If I were buying Pacerpoles, I'd ask them to throw in a few extra sets of street feet. I have worn through mine with a lot of pavement walking at home. If you use the rubber tips, no-one need be annoyed by your poles. As for the other complaints above, we were guilty of many - taking small kids, large group, fuddy-duddy, a whiner on occasion, one snorer......but never noisy pole tips!

 

[Buckeroo]

Ditto :x
oh and as the op asked "does anyone not like pacerpoles" If one is sticking to the thread and being picky it should be confined to those who don't like the things :wink:

Ian

I once found myself walking alongside a woman who liked to use her hands while she talked. Lovely lady but she forgot she had a stick in each hand. Imagine throwing a broomstick through the spokes of a bike's front wheel while at speed; that's what happened to me when her stick found its way between my knees mid stride. Base over apex.

No I don't use them myself and am wary of them in the hands of amateurs.

 

[clearskiescamino]

I've never liked them. Personally I like to have my hands free while walking. I had difficulty coming down the hills from Foncebadon and I was given one from a fellow pilgrim and it's didn't help. This is just me though.
I detest the sound of them also!
David

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I'd ask them to throw in a few extra sets of street feet

If you order tips from them, they do toss in a second set. You can get replacements in the U.S. at REI; they are Black Diamond brand.

el-camino-frances/topic14992.html

 

[demcrookedvultures]

Click clack click clack.... they drive me up the friggin' wall ! :evil:

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Put on the rubber tips!!'

 

[Magnara]

I have used Fizen poles happily on 2 caminos, but I am intrigued by the sound of Pacer Poles - anything that helps me stay fit and happy while walking gets my attention. However, jsut as I was deciding to get some, I have just broken my left wrist very badly. Any opinion about whether that will be a problem using the Pacer Poles this time next year when we head for Le Puys? I do think the wrist strap on my Fizen might set up a problem if I use that. I know it depends how I mend, but I'm just wonderin'

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Your weight is on your hands with Pacer Poles. It is on the wrist strap with conventional poles. Either might be uncomfortable for a broken wrist, but you can test the stresses with your poles. Use two canes to test stresses with Pace Poles. The grip will be more comfortable with the Pacer Poles, but the cane should tell you how your wrist will react.

 

[Sojourner47]

I have used Fizen poles happily on 2 caminos, but I am intrigued by the sound of Pacer Poles - anything that helps me stay fit and happy while walking gets my attention. However, jsut as I was deciding to get some, I have just broken my left wrist very badly. Any opinion about whether that will be a problem using the Pacer Poles this time next year when we head for Le Puys? I do think the wrist strap on my Fizen might set up a problem if I use that. I know it depends how I mend, but I'm just wonderin'

Go to the Pacer pole website: http://www.pacerpole.com/ and send your query to Heather Rhodes - I'm sure she will help you.
I'm taking Pacers on camino next week for the first time, and I must say the customer service is brilliant. , they really take a lot of trouble to make sure eveything's OK.

 

[clearskiescamino]

Me! Can't stand them. The sound irritates me. On the camino now and everyone seems to own one or two.

 

[blaneymarine]

I would be interested in anyone's opinion of the effect on the environment by the millions of walking pole strikes.
On last years Camino I could actually determine, if uncertain, which direction to take by the pole strikes on the surface.
I also witnessed this effect on rock and vegetation during this years AT section hike.
When did everyone switch from walking sticks to poles?
Dave

 

[Deleted member 22638]

I would estimate that my not inconsiderable weight had more of an environmental impact - on the sendas, paths, roads, etc

The rubber ends on Pacer Poles are relatively soft and so quiet - having gone through two sets on the Camino Frances the locally sourced replacements were more plasticky and hence noisier - not good - bring some more spares

Final thought the Pacer Poles made going downhill so much more comfortable as they can be flicked out with ease something my walking companions with regular poles found more awkward

 

[dougfitz]

I would estimate that my not inconsiderable weight had more of an environmental impact - on the sendas, paths, roads, etc

You might be right if you are fairy-tapping your poles and using pole tips. Once the rubber pole tips come off, and any reasonable pressure is applied, the pole tips will penetrate soil, grass, sand, gravel etc, and on most surfaces will leave a hole, dig out a small chunk of soil etc. Sealed surfaces are not susceptible to that sort of damage, and well compacted gravel or similar surfaces is only penetrated a little, normally just by the metal tip.

I recall that some years ago when I was travelling in NZ, there was some discussion about banning poles on some tracks because of the damage they were doing. I don't know how that ended up - one of the kiwis might be able to tell us what happened with that.

Regards,

 

[Deleted member 22638]

Doug I agree - must keep good (& quiet) rubber tips on. A good set of well shod poles I believe will allow a lot more people to complete their Camino - and the few that allow their Tungsten protuberance to damage the Camino should be shot slowly

200,000 peeps without poles will still cause considerable damage even barefoot when wet and muddy.

Having been able to place my hand in the hand shaped grooves at the base of the carved tree of Jesse in 1990 - I am of the view that Pilgrim/ visitors should continue to be allowed to do it and when it wears out we replace it. Similarly when we wear out the last remnants of the Roman cobblestones - we replace, as we have replaced the Camino pathway over the millennium.

Where appropriate let's preserve, or conserve, but let's not loose faith.

 

[Daxzentzu]

I prefer a wooden staff

Will I get one en route

Dax

 

[JohnMcM]

Is it just or is there a touch of intolerance and snobbery in this thread?