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If you download the Spanish language pack on Google Translate you can also use it offline.Of course my situation was complicated by the fact that I was walking without a data plan, so I couldn't always use Google Translate when reading the menus.
Sure, now you tell me...If you download the Spanish language pack on Google Translate you can also use it offline.
A phrase book would have been handy. I didn’t bring one due to the perceived weight. I managed fine with almost no Spanish, but as I mentioned, my culinary experience there would have been greatly enhanced if I knew more of the food-related words. Particularly when I was in the larger cities and off the Camino for a day. Many of the bars had extensive wonderful looking menus, and it sucked that I couldn’t read them. But now I know, and I’ll make more of an effort the next time.Spanish phrase book is your basic requirement. It works when phones and tablets don't. If you have specific things you need to ask, like "can I book a bed for tomorrow night", make a crib sheet and laminate it. Eventually you won't need it.
While it's nice to be able to speak the local language, you can get by without it. I speak very little Spanish. I know a handful of useful phrases and I get by with those. I also have the crib sheets
That’s for sure.My walking in rural Japan would have been vastly more complicated without them.
I'm surprised to read the comments about the lack of English on the CF. Having walked it for the 4th time this January I was struck by just how much is now available in English and other foreign languages (notably Korean) compared with my early experience when I could have counted my fellow English-speakers for the whole 800km on my fingers. These days I mostly walk the less popular routes and my default assumption is that Spanish (or Gallego) will be the only language encountered. It is well worth investing in a local SIM card and data to have fully functioning translation apps at hand. My walking in rural Japan would have been vastly more complicated without them.
I’ll leave the bars and restaurants with menus in four languages to monolinguals and eat where locals eat for better food and better prices. I hear Iowa also has pretty good ham.Perhaps the one thing that surprised me more than anything else when I started walking the CF in May is how little English is spoken in Northern Spain. Or more precisely, how seldom there is English signage, menus, etc., as compared to other countries.
And before some of you start haughtily replying that it's the visitors' obligation to learn Spanish, not the locals' obligation to cater to non-Spanish speakers, let me articulate my point a bit more.
I've travelled fairly extensively in my life, and when traveling I could find myself at some remote village in Laos, and chances are they will have some version of an English menu at the local restaurant. Not proper English mind you, but enough to get a sense of what the food is. I've experienced this in many countries - pretty much any business that has had one or two foreigners stop by in the past will have some sort of paper with some English on it for future customers.
Not so in northern Spain. I was surprised that when I'd go to a bar in some small village, that caters almost exclusively to pilgrims, and those pilgrims are predominantly non-Spanish speaking, there would very seldom be an English version of the menu.
Again, before people start jumping down my throat, I'm not suggesting that the business owners/workers should be obliged to learn to speak English. But translating a menu costs nothing and takes a few minutes. Why, when 90% of your customers are speaking English (English being the default language when a group of koreans, germans, french, etc are gathered) would you, as a business owner, not translate your menu? It just seems like such an obvious thing to do from a business perspective.
The lack of English in bars and restaurants isn't a big deal, it's just something that I find odd/interesting. I've worked in travel and tourism my whole life, and honestly can't recall another place I've been where there was such a complete lack of English. Heck even in the big cathedrals of Burgos and Leon, all the signage is in Spanish only. I did see one sign translated into English - the one asking for donations.
So do you need to speak Spanish to walk a camino? No of course not. But if I knew then what I know now I would have spent some time learning all the relevant words for Spanish food and drink, as that would have made things much easier for me, and I wouldn't have had to resort to simply pointing at things under the glass when I went into a bar... Of course my situation was complicated by the fact that I was walking without a data plan, so I couldn't always use Google Translate when reading the menus. At times I would take a photo of the menu, then go back to my albergue where I had wifi and use Google to translate the menu, then return to the restaurant to order. Ridiculous I know, but it is what it is, and I was wholly unprepared from a language perspective. Lesson learned. Ordering food, booking accommodation, and understanding numbers - if you can learn this amount of Spanish before your camino you'll be glad once you're there. As for myself, happily towards the end of my camino I had gotten much better, and could confidently order a handful of dishes. But I'll be doing a crash course before my next camino. I know I missed out on lots of delicious food opportunities simply because I didn't know how to order it.
(Apologies if I've missed mention of this before.)Exactly this. The amount of English spoken on the Francés is imcomparable with the less walked Caminos.
I think there is a very logical explanation why a lot of Spaniards don't speak English (very well).
Partially true. The dubbing for Latin America and Spain is not the same. You will find the same movies dubbed into 'Latin American' Spanish (some sort of neutral Latin American sounding Spanish that isn't really spoken anywhere) and into Spanish from Spain.(Apologies if I've missed mention of this before.)
Another reason I've been told by Portuguese about why a higher proportion of them speak reasonable English than Spaniards (remember--Portuguese perspective--may or may not be true)...a lot of Portuguese apparently improve their spoken English by watching English-language movies/Netflix etc. which are subtitled in Portuguese, but typically not dubbed because the audience isn't large enough to warrant it. Contrast this with Spain--apparently, because of the very large audience throughout Latin America, most North American movies are dubbed into Spanish, so the viewers never hear the original English-language version. Thus the Portuguese get more listening practice than the Spanish, which helps a lot with their English conversation.
This surprised me, given the size of the Brazilian audience. I would have thought the movies would have been dubbed into Portuguese as well. But--apparently not--or perhaps the Brazilian Portuguese is different enough from continental Portuguese that the original English-language version is preferable?
In any case, that's the explanation I was given...
Also available as an appI highly recommend the free Language Transfer course.
I think in Laos, where I have also been, they absolutely need English on their menus because pretty much no one can read or speak Laotian unless you live there or a nearby. Small Spanish restaurants possibly don’t feel compelled do it because they don’t really need it to get the business. If a traveler walks in, they figure it out.and when traveling I could find myself at some remote village in Laos, and chances are they will have some version of an English menu at the local restaurant. Not proper English mind you, but enough to get a sense of what the food is.
I knew a comment like this would come eventually...I’ll leave the bars and restaurants with menus in four languages to monolinguals and eat where locals eat for better food and better prices. I hear Iowa also has pretty good ham.
Agreed, which is why I mentioned specifically that I was surprised to find this lack of an English menu in bars that primarily serve pilgrims. I wouldn't expect it in restaurants that primarily serve Spanish customers.Small Spanish restaurants possibly don’t feel compelled do it because they don’t really need it to get the business. If a traveler walks in, they figure it out.
Having walked the Mozarabe from Malaga I'm slightly surprised that the numbers would be that large! Definitely a road less travelledHowever, while walking the Mozárabe this past March, a bar owner with whom I was chatting said that he understood that 700-1000 pilgrims passed through his town each YEAR, a large percentage of them being Spanish.
As a native Spanish speaker, it would be appreciated if people who do not speak Spanish in their native language would make an effort to learn basic words or sentences in Spanish.
This has nothing to do with the US. No matter how you feel about immigrants, Spanish is the second most spoken language in the US and it’s only becoming more prevalent.The same goes for me in the US! If a Latin American person starts randomly speaking Spanish to me in a local store, I probably wound not answer and just walk away. If they make and attempt at a few English words, I would be more inclined to help them perhaps with a few words of Spanish.
-Paul
I don't think that he meant that he was speaking for everyone is the US, but just for himself, who happens to live in the US.This has nothing to do with the US. No matter how you feel about immigrants, Spanish is the second most spoken language in the US and it’s only becoming more prevalent.
The same goes for me in the US!
Thank you for sharing!Unfortunately, I don't speak Spanish but, like many, I guess I speak Camino Spanish, enough to be friendly, courteous and cover the essentials. I have a 2 pager I print out double sided and take with me when I visit or walk in Spain. I took this on my first Camino in 2011. I don't use it often these days, but I like having it folded up somewhere handy. I know it's old fashioned to print something but for this purpose - simple exchanges - I prefer to using my phone. I've attached it if it's of any use. I am not able to attach a Word file.
PS It's very possible I've made some mistakes - but nothing serious!
Same happened to me in Paris. While I hacked my breakfast order apart with high school french, another American spoke loudly and slowly in English (you know, so them furriners could understand). I got served; he got a gallic shrug. Love it.One other comment. Angel, the owner of El embrujo in Poladura on the C. Del San Salvador, told me that he would make every effort to communicate with his limited English vocabulary unless pilgrims would complain that his English wasn't good enough. At that point, he would go back to being a proud Spaniard and speak only Spanish.
Probably erroring on the high side. The chat was with a bar owner in Hinojosa del Duque, between Córdoba and Mérida. I saw almost no one on my walk, but thought that the lack of other pilgrim's could have been due to walking in mid-March.Having walked the Mozarabe from Malaga I'm slightly surprised that the numbers would be that large! Definitely a road less travelled
It costs nothing and only takes a few minutes if you don't mind spending money to print menus that sell "Angry Potatoes" (and these days, risk becoming a joke on the internet). If you really want your clientelle to understand how amazing your food can be, it requires a fair amount of work. (On a funny note, my husband is of East Asian heritage, and I always ask him to read menus for me, because the amount of "beef with vegetables and sauce" we find is astounding.)But translating a menu costs nothing and takes a few minutes.
Their travel experience example was Laos, the site of a U.S. proxy war. Much like Central America, there’s historical reasons why South East Asia speaks English as a lingua franca for foreigners.I know we are largely an English language forum, and as such somewhat less likely to take the perspective of Korean, German or Italian speaking pilgrims, perhaps the other major languages that I hear when walking, and the languages that I regularly see where there are menus available in several languages.
Perhaps I have learnt enough Spanish and Portuguese so that, while I occasionally need to use Google Translate, I am pretty comfortable with simple essential daily tasks in these languages. It helps.
And the OP has made me wonder whether the practice of having menus in several languages is relatively common elsewhere. I know that it appears relatively common in places in Portugal and Spain where I have travelled recently, but I must admit I don't look for that when in another English speaking country. I suspect they might be available in major tourist destinations, but are they generally available elsewhere?
I recently spent a week in Rochester, Kent, and the Japanese restaurant that I ate in had the menu descriptions in both Japanese and English, but I didn't ask for the menu in another language. Would I find a similar pattern elsewhere? Or would there be menus available in a wider range of languages? As English language speakers (in the main) do we even look for this when visiting restaurants wherever we travel? I would be interested in whether it is common outside the major tourist centres in the US and Canada, countries which I haven't travelled to recently. Does anyone know?
Thank you for that, but it doesn't go to the point of my question, which is about the availability of menus as a particular example, in languages other than English outside of the major tourist areas in English speaking countries. I may not have made that clear.Seems like a lot, but it’s still not everywhere, and in many of these places you might not find an English menu outside of the tourist track.
This. Beautifully said, @Anamya .be kind to your waiters, receptionists, hospitaleros, drivers. Try something in broken Spanish and give them that little time to sync with you. And kindness is usually replied with kindness, if words are missing.
Besides Canada I’m not aware of any anglophone countries that have specific language requirements, so most commonly I’ve seen menus in French or Italian to sound fancier, in Spanish in the US, or in various languages of ethnic enclaves like Chinese or Serbian etc. To sum it up, I’ve noticed menus partially printed in prestige languages to be understood as flavored English (with varying degrees of success), compulsory French in Canada, Spanish in the US because Mexican Spanish food terminology is widely understood, and minority languages for immigrants in their specific neighborhoods.Thank you for that, but it doesn't go to the point of my question, which is about the availability of menus as a particular example, in languages other than English outside of the major tourist areas in English speaking countries. I may not have made that clear.
I very much doubt one would find this in my own country, other than the example I used of the Japanese restaurant presenting its menu in both Japanese and English. Certainly, I don't see it in any of the places that I regularly visit in Australia and southern England. But I haven't visited Canada nor the USA for some time, and I was wondering if it was much the same there.
This map is clearly outdated, so if you have something more recent please post.
Maybe that’s why I have no problem finding people who speak some English. I usually try my horrible Spanish first , or sometimes I’ll just ask if I can speak English: Puedo hablar ingles? Often I’ll get back basic English. 20 or 30 words in a foreign language can make the difference.I know a small amount of beginner Spanish, good enough to often be able to read the signs but not enough to follow fast Spanish. I found my slow Spanish and sign language usually worked out fine.
But one thing I learned in Italy, that proved true in France and Spain, is that many people have a basic grasp of English but can be embarrassed at their proficiency and prefer to use their native language, unless your version of Italian is so bad they have no shame replying in English.
I can proudly say that my Italian is good/bad enough that every time I asked a question in Italy they understood me but answered in English....
Surprisingly this (asking in excruciating Italian) also worked in France and Spain, I was often answered in English!
And the same phrases in Basque will start your Camino del Norte on the right foot.Maybe that’s why I have no problem finding people who speak some English. I usually try my horrible Spanish first , or sometimes I’ll just ask if I can speak English: Puedo hablar ingles? Often I’ll get back basic English. 20 or 30 words in a foreign language can make the difference.
And really, if you can learn the words for “hello”,” thank you“,l would like….”, and “may I speak english”?, Just those few words, and your experience will be much better. I find asking people if I may speak English is much more polite than asking them if they speak English.
With dreams of one day being able to have a real conversation, I spend at least a little time studying Spanish every day.
I was referring to written menus in bars/restaurants, not spoken English.What I am surprised about is that someone who is as well traveled as you , is surprised by the lack of English spoken in certain areas/ places on the Camino.,
I just completed part of the Del Norte from Irun to Bilbao. High school Spanish was adequate to get by, however greetings to farmers and locals along the route were met with grunts or replies that could only have been in the Basque language. Next time I'll be sure to learn a bunch of Basque pleasantries to help lighten the day.On Caminos like the CF you will survive fine with English, most of the time. However Spanish is more important in the world than English as the first language (no.2 after Chinese,, and English no. 3).
10 Most Spoken First Languages in the World - 2023 Update
10 Most Spoken First Languages. There are over 7000 languages spoken in the world with different sounds and historywww.translateday.com
In rural areas, It requires some Spanish knowledge. Many villages that you pass will have many old citicens that only speak Spanish. I am glad I can do that. It is also rewarding to commend some Spanish in politeness and respect, IMHO. it has helped me a lot, as well as coming closer to the locals and making friends.
I sometimes got a very pointed "egun on" reply to my " buen dia"I just completed part of the Del Norte from Irun to Bilbao. High school Spanish was adequate to get by, however greetings to farmers and locals along the route were met with grunts or replies that could only have been in the Basque language. Next time I'll be sure to learn a bunch of Basque pleasantries to help lighten the day.
Try an automated phone call...My ability to read and speak Spanish has one major problem. The Spanish, God bless them speak Spanish! At approximately 100 times the speed I can even possibly conceive understanding
?? I recall many menus with English on them along the Camino Francés. An amusing one in los Arcos had a list of sandwiches increasing in number of ingredients, each with different name. Ham, cheese, bacon, etc. The last one on the list added lettuce, and was called “vegetarian"Not so in northern Spain. I was surprised that when I'd go to a bar in some small village, that caters almost exclusively to pilgrims, and those pilgrims are predominantly non-Spanish speaking, there would very seldom be an English version of the menu.
Well, given all your experience, aren't you just the one to offer a service to all those places that didn't have translations handy for you?Perhaps the one thing that surprised me more than anything else when I started walking the CF in May is how little English is spoken in Northern Spain. Or more precisely, how seldom there is English signage, menus, etc., as compared to other countries.
And before some of you start haughtily replying that it's the visitors' obligation to learn Spanish, not the locals' obligation to cater to non-Spanish speakers, let me articulate my point a bit more.
I've travelled fairly extensively in my life, and when traveling I could find myself at some remote village in Laos, and chances are they will have some version of an English menu at the local restaurant. Not proper English mind you, but enough to get a sense of what the food is. I've experienced this in many countries - pretty much any business that has had one or two foreigners stop by in the past will have some sort of paper with some English on it for future customers.
Not so in northern Spain. I was surprised that when I'd go to a bar in some small village, that caters almost exclusively to pilgrims, and those pilgrims are predominantly non-Spanish speaking, there would very seldom be an English version of the menu.
Again, before people start jumping down my throat, I'm not suggesting that the business owners/workers should be obliged to learn to speak English. But translating a menu costs nothing and takes a few minutes. Why, when 90% of your customers are speaking English (English being the default language when a group of koreans, germans, french, etc are gathered) would you, as a business owner, not translate your menu? It just seems like such an obvious thing to do from a business perspective.
The lack of English in bars and restaurants isn't a big deal, it's just something that I find odd/interesting. I've worked in travel and tourism my whole life, and honestly can't recall another place I've been where there was such a complete lack of English. Heck even in the big cathedrals of Burgos and Leon, all the signage is in Spanish only. I did see one sign translated into English - the one asking for donations.
So do you need to speak Spanish to walk a camino? No of course not. But if I knew then what I know now I would have spent some time learning all the relevant words for Spanish food and drink, as that would have made things much easier for me, and I wouldn't have had to resort to simply pointing at things under the glass when I went into a bar... Of course my situation was complicated by the fact that I was walking without a data plan, so I couldn't always use Google Translate when reading the menus. At times I would take a photo of the menu, then go back to my albergue where I had wifi and use Google to translate the menu, then return to the restaurant to order. Ridiculous I know, but it is what it is, and I was wholly unprepared from a language perspective. Lesson learned. Ordering food, booking accommodation, and understanding numbers - if you can learn this amount of Spanish before your camino you'll be glad once you're there. As for myself, happily towards the end of my camino I had gotten much better, and could confidently order a handful of dishes. But I'll be doing a crash course before my next camino. I know I missed out on lots of delicious food opportunities simply because I didn't know how to order it.
Roasted mountain dwellerI often cringe when I see terrible translations,
Or Spotted Dick for that matter...And as for what visitors think of ´toad in the hole´, not to mention ´Lady´s fingers´ I shudder to think.
You were in the basque country...I sometimes got a very pointed "egun on" reply to my " buen dia"
Ala spam, spam, spam, bacon, cheese, and spam? I want to go there!?? I recall many menus with English on them along the Camino Francés. An amusing one in los Arcos had a list of sandwiches increasing in number of ingredients, each with different name. Ham, cheese, bacon, etc. The last one on the list added lettuce, and was called “vegetarian"
Yep. The older people, especially, are quite proud of their language, I found. Eskerik asko (thank you) and komunak (bathroom) are some good words to know.You were in the basque country...
What do you think guttural means? Do you know the general differences between Latin American and Castilian phonologies?What? Most Spanish would disagree and say SA Spanish is—as you say—“more gutteral.” Offensive to say the least. ESPECIALLY since you’re parlaying such based on ignorance and hearsay.
Don't get me started on being a vegetarian on the Camino-ha ha - It is rough!!Ala spam, spam, spam, bacon, cheese, and spam? I want to go there!
Possibly he does. There are differences in pronunciation between Spanish Castilian and other versions: even within Spain there pronounced differences between regions, and the difference between, for example Argentinian and Chilean Castilian is quite extreme. But the same could be said of any language, English in particular.What do you think guttural means? Do you know the general differences between Latin American and Castilian phonologies?
Sounds like my progress in PortugueseMy ability to read and speak Spanish has one major problem. The Spanish, God bless them speak Spanish! At approximately 100 times the speed I can even possibly conceive understanding
Yes dialects can all be different, but guttural means throaty from Latin. And Castilian Spanish famously pronounces j/x/ge/gi as a voiceless velar fricative, which is one phonological indication of several of the only accurately described characteristic (back of the oral cavity) of a guttural language.Possibly he does. There are differences in pronunciation between Spanish Castilian and other versions: even within Spain there pronounced differences between regions and the difference between, for example Argentinian and Chilean Castillian is quite extreme. But the same could be said of any language, English in particular.
For a number of what should be obvious reasons, I refrained from mentioning that.Or Spotted Dick for that matter...
As far as I know, Spanish only has one guttural sound: jota. But someone who wasn´t used to hearing Spanish people speaking Castilian would probably notice it and think the accent was guttural, which it isn´t. Another remark people make, especially other Castilian speakers, is that the Spanish lisp. They don´t, they just says words like cena with a voiceless labio-dental fricative, i.e. they poke their tongues out when they say ´z´ or ´ce´ etc like most of us English speakers do when we say ´think´ or ´bath´. The truly bizarre thing is the number of English speakers who cannot get their head around how to say ´cerveza´. But such is life.Yes dialects can all be different, but guttural means throaty from Latin. And Castilian Spanish famously pronounces j/x/ge/gi as a voiceless velar fricative, which is one phonological indication of several of the only accurately described characteristic (back of the oral cavity) of a guttural language.
The truly bizarre thing is the number of English speakers who cannot get their head around how to say ´cerveza´. But such is life.
J, or jota, is a letter, ie a grapheme / a symbol in an alphabet. A letter in itself is not a sound. Letters can represent sounds or phones, but different letters can represent functionally equivalent phones (the same sounds) ie phonemes, as the same letter can represent different phonemes depending on such rules as its position in a word (eg g+a/o/u vs. g+e/i in many Latin languages or s+e/i vs. s+ o/u/a in the Irish name Saoirse pronounced with a broad S followed by a slender S).As far as I know, Spanish only has one guttural sound: jota. But someone who wasn´t used to hearing Spanish people speaking Castilian would probably notice it and think the accent was guttural, which it isn´t.
OK, I´ll go with that. I don´t think anyone is trying to prove anything here. So when Pathfinder asserted that the form of Castilian spoken in Spain (Spanish Castilian) was a guttural language, he was right because a guttural language, according to the definition you have given here, is any language that has at least one guttural sound in it. Can we end this now? Because it isn´t going anywhere.Explicitly this means that Castilian Spanish, for the most part, like German or Arabic or Farsi or French, is indeed a guttural language.
in the Irish name Saoirse pronounced with a broad S followed by a slender S).
This is the problem with linguistics, how do you represent sounds in visual form, e.g. writing. One way to do this (and it is what language teachers and linguistic academics do) is to use the IPA. Not India Pale Ale, the International Phonetic Alphabet which has a symbol for every sound in every language, so far. Which is lovely for teachers of languages and professors of linguistics but not much use for the normal run of humanity because a) these symbols are a pain in the butt to introduce into normal text and b) the normal run of humanity has no idea of what these symbols represent. So us language teachers and linguistic professors (I belong to the former category) have to have recourse to descriptive language, such as ´soft s´ etc. As jrobasdon points out, there is no exact, perfect relationship between sounds and letters in the alphabet. RP English (aka posh British) or Southern British Standard (my accent, middle class English) use around 44 sounds represented by an alphabet with´26 letters (and let´s not get started on right, write, rite). The so-called Roman alphabet just about works for Spanish Castilian, i.e. you know from the spelling how to say a word, but in Latin America you have problems with samba/zamba, coser/cozer not to mention the way Argentinians and Uruguayans pronounce words with ll in them - when I went to fill up a car in Patagonia I was asked what sounded like ´sheno´?I dont know what a slender 'S' is, but the second S in the name Saoirse is pronounced 'sh' as in See-er-sheh
“The “S” letter is pronounced in two major ways in the Irish language: Broad S which sounds like “ssss” in English. Slender S which sounds like “shhh” in English.“ (https://www.bitesize.irish/blog/pronounce-s/)I dont know what a slender 'S' is, but the second S in the name Saoirse is pronounced 'sh' as in See-er-sheh
Another slender S is in Siobhan or uisce beatha, which gives us whiskey. An example of a broad S is in slainte.
On TV today a presenter said that Siobhán is now being routinely pronounced See-o-ban as the youth cannot pronounce it!Siobhán and sláinte are actually spelt with a 'fada' over the A, which changes the sound of that vowel.
Never said Irish people. The name is popular in EnglandI'm not sure which 'youth' you're referring to, but I don't think Irish people young or old have any problem pronouncing Irish words. The british on the other hand, or at least the british establishment, are somehow gifted with an immense capacity to mangle Irish names..
But to the original question:
Yes, out of respect and politeness if nothing else, it's a good idea to learn a few basic phrases in Spanish if you plan to spend any time there, particularly in rural areas. A little goes a long way...
BTW, I am first generation English and my grandfather was Irish and left the old country in the aftermath of the Famine. My historic surname is Dubhslain, guess what it is now?Never said Irish people. The name is popular in England
Black?BTW, I am first generation English and my grandfather was Irish and left the old country in the aftermath of the Famine. My historic surname is Dubhslain, guess what it is now?
Talking about S, not A.Siobhán and sláinte are actually spelt with a 'fada' over the A, which changes the sound of that vowel.
Probably Doolin. Everything looks worse anglicized.BTW, I am first generation English and my grandfather was Irish and left the old country in the aftermath of the Famine. My historic surname is Dubhslain, guess what it is now?
Very good! That is one version of it. Doolin, Doolan, DolanProbably Doolin. Everything looks worse anglicized.
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