Do I need more stuff...?

[quinx]

I need to buy a pack to do my first stage of the camino frances over the last weekend of May (only four days of it - all the time I have for now so just doing SJdPP - Pamplona but intending to go on to finish over 2 - 3 longer trips over the next few years).

Tonight I thought I'd get together what I thought I'd need, just to gauge size for my new pack.

To my surprise everything I want to take fits comfortably in a cheapo 18L bag I use for work, still leaving room for a couple of water bottles in the pockets. About half the pack volume is my sleeping bag and most of the rest is my spare clothes, which I can just about squish into a 3L drysack. I read a couple of threads with consistent advice to pare it right down - so I did. I didn't think I was being that extreme but comparing the volume with the sizes of bags I've read about I'm worried I've overdone it. SJdPP - Roncevalles may not exactly be scaling Mount Everest, but that just means it would be even more embarrassing to die by trying to cross in barely more than a bikini.

So - this is the clothing I was planning to take. Not enough? Stupid/irresponsible? I'm worried about both cold and wet - though I'd add that I'll take a risk of mild discomfort over the guarantee of discomfort through hauling too much stuff. But although I've seen references to brisk mornings I haven't seen anything which actually gives figures what the temperatures are likely to be, especially in the Pyrennees, in v late May / early June.

Top half
- Merino TShirt
- Long sleeved top (wicking/quick dry)
- Fleece top (if it helps this weighs about 225g and came as part of a very bargain basement ski kit)
- Sports bra (x2)
- Lightweight rain jacket

Bottom half
- Zip-off trousers
- Hiking shorts
- Knickers (x2)
(nb no waterproof trousers)

Sundry
- Walking socks x 2
- Walking shoes
- Waterproof sandals
- Merino glove liners, sunhat, sunglasses
- Scarf (silk/wool blend, multi-purpose)

Note - that's absolutely everything so no dedicated sleepwear and it includes the clothes I'll be wearing at any given time. For sleeping at Orisson and Roncevalles I have both a light sleeping bag and a silk liner. (And if anyone thinks the sleeping bag is unnecessary, feel free to say so and I'll just buy a bum bag! May/June seems right on the edge for advice on Orisson/Roncevalles temperatures) Obviously a wash kit, some medical supplies and various sundries are along coming too - I've just listed clothing.

Also note - I'm still going to buy a new pack - the 18L is semi-broken and doesn't have a waist strap. The only question is how much bigger than 18L I need to go. I'd been looking at some 36L, which seemed a common size for others on this forum. But as matters stand things would be rattling around in it and I'm wondering whether to go for more like 22L which would still appear to leave room for the odd sandwich etc without tempting me to throw stuff in just because there's space.

Any and all thoughts gratefully received. Buon camino.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

No sunglasses? No sunscreen? No toothbrush? no lip balm with sunscreen? (careful, I recommend that as well)
toothpaste
vaseline / something for feet to avoid blisters
soap for clothing
phone
passport and credit cards

 

[MTtoCamino]

You won't need a sleeping bag a light quilt & liner should be fine.
You can buy or find other things if you need more. A 36l pack will be important if the dates you walk turn into a rain storm. Anything else you can find as you go.
Buen Camino
Keith

 

[quinx]

No sunglasses? No sunscreen? No toothbrush? no lip balm with sunscreen? (careful, I recommend that as well)
toothpaste
vaseline / something for feet to avoid blisters
soap for clothing
phone
passport and credit cards

Yes - all of those things were already coming except the vaseline, this was just meant to be a list of the clothing. My "washkit" is soap (multi-use), deodorant, razor, toothbrush +paste, comb, hair ties, contact lenses, sunblock and chapstick, with some tissues for the toilet kept separately and a mini trek towel. My "medical supplies" are mostly compeed and bandages, plus some painkillers, antiseptic, immodium, rehydration salts etc. And I've got penknife, led light, watch, phone, charger, earphones, safety pins, spare cord, gaffer tape, passport, credencial, stone, cash, cards.

However all of that together doesn't take as much bulk as a thermal jacket would - my concern right now is to get the size of the pack right.

ETA: thanks for the tip re vaseline though.

 

[quinx]

You won't need a sleeping bag a light quilt & liner should be fine.
You can buy or find other things if you need more. A 36l pack will be important if the dates you walk turn into a rain storm. Anything else you can find as you go.
Buen Camino
Keith

This is really helpful. That's on the logic that if it rains I'm going to need to buy more clothes?

 

[MTtoCamino]

No sunglasses? No sunscreen? No toothbrush? no lip balm with sunscreen? (careful, I recommend that as well)
toothpaste
vaseline / something for feet to avoid blisters
soap for clothing
phone
passport and credit cards

Yes the most critical is passport & access to cash! Everything else can be forgotten if bad luck crosses your path.

 

[MTtoCamino]

This is really helpful. That's on the logic that if it rains I'm going to need to buy more clothes?

Yes

 

[quinx]

Thanks all. I'm definitely happier to go with less and buy as I need things as long as there's nothing I'm inevitably going to need, or might need badly and urgently while on the trail. And as you say, whatever you're carrying cash/cards (plus insurance, a smattering of Spanish and hopefully a bit of common sense) are the real emergency items.

 

[C clearly]

All of that fits into 18 L? You must have a tiny sleeping bag! Sounds like you have the essentials for that time of year.

 

[MTtoCamino]

For those of us that pack the kitchen sink, it is because we already have some creature comforts we are not willing to leave, in the end if the body holds up we are justified but honestly it's not a good idea. We all see many stop due to injury.

 

[quinx]

My sleeping bag is tiny, yes. It's a [checks label] North Face Scorpio, apparently. Summer weight (and I've had some chilly nights pushing its limits because it's the only bag I own) but it seems ideal for this.

MTtoCamino - when I went camping as a child, my mum had a camping sink, together with a camping water tank with tap and a separate collapsible camping basin for the camping bathroom. True story...

 

[MTtoCamino]

My sleeping bag is tiny, yes. It's a [checks label] North Face Scorpio, apparently. Summer weight (and I've had some chilly nights pushing its limits because it's the only bag I own) but it seems ideal for this.

MTtoCamino - when I went camping as a child, my mum had a camping sink, together with a camping water tank with tap and a separate collapsible camping basin for the camping bathroom. True story...

Yes I even see them in the backcountry when folks bring in pack horses. But the idea for the Camino is to learn that we have been given a body that needs very little. Our minds then have to figure it out when our comfort zones are challenged. I wish you the best!

 

[quinx]

Thanks Keith!

 

[luvtraveling]

I would purchase a larger pack (larger than 18L) simply because if you are ever able to walk more than 4 days, you will need a little more room. Unless, of course, money is no object and you plan to buy a new pack each time you walk. Also, pay attention to the weight of the pack. Sometimes you can get a larger pack that weighs less than a smaller one. I'd go with the lighter one any day!

Denise

 

[quinx]

I agree about pack weight. The pack is likely to be my single heaviest item even if I go light which is one of the reasons I'm thinking about it so hard.

I wouldn't say money is no object, but I also have an eye to long term use - is, say, a 36L going to be too big for now yet too small for future (non Camino) trips carrying tent, etc? My last, much loved pack (I wore it right into the ground so I've thrown it out but I'd guess 50 litres) saw a lot of use as luggage for more sedate car/train/bus based holidays, with half the contents left in the back of the car for the odd overnight camping trip. Do people get much use out of 35 - 40L *other* than on Camino?

A daypack I at least know will get use, if only to carry water and a fleece on day hikes.

 

[nidarosa]

Well done on packing light! Once when I came back from a two week Camino and did my un-packing review of the gear I had taken - what I had used, not used, could do without, would change etc - I managed to get it all into a 20L pack, but then it was stuffed full and I had my plastic sandals on the outside. I would suggest that a ~30L lightweight and frameless pack like the Osprey Tempest or Talon would be enough for you and would be useful as a daypack for all sorts of other travel and adventures later. With a 30L pack or slightly bigger you could still go places with a light tent, just put it in a drybag and attach it to the outside if needed. I have a 50L frameless Golite Jam weighing less than a kilo for longer trips with more stuff and it still carries very well because I keep the weight low (<8kg). My suggestion is that you buy one that is small enough for carryon, daytrips and lightweight adventures and not necessarily a framed or excessively padded and heavy pack. You obviously know how to pare it down already (though I would add something to sleep in and use for extra warmth in case things don't dry properly and also a poncho instead of a pack cover, but that's just me ...)

 

[bunnymac]

I need to buy a pack to do my first stage of the camino frances over the last weekend of May (only four days of it - all the time I have for now so just doing SJdPP - Pamplona but intending to go on to finish over 2 - 3 longer trips over the next few years).

Tonight I thought I'd get together what I thought I'd need, just to gauge size for my new pack.

To my surprise everything I want to take fits comfortably in a cheapo 18L bag I use for work, still leaving room for a couple of water bottles in the pockets. About half the pack volume is my sleeping bag and most of the rest is my spare clothes, which I can just about squish into a 3L drysack. I read a couple of threads with consistent advice to pare it right down - so I did. I didn't think I was being that extreme but comparing the volume with the sizes of bags I've read about I'm worried I've overdone it. SJdPP - Roncevalles may not exactly be scaling Mount Everest, but that just means it would be even more embarrassing to die by trying to cross in barely more than a bikini.

So - this is the clothing I was planning to take. Not enough? Stupid/irresponsible? I'm worried about both cold and wet - though I'd add that I'll take a risk of mild discomfort over the guarantee of discomfort through hauling too much stuff. But although I've seen references to brisk mornings I haven't seen anything which actually gives figures what the temperatures are likely to be, especially in the Pyrennees, in v late May / early June.

Top half
- Merino TShirt
- Long sleeved top (wicking/quick dry)
- Fleece top (if it helps this weighs about 225g and came as part of a very bargain basement ski kit)
- Sports bra (x2)
- Lightweight rain jacket

Bottom half
- Zip-off trousers
- Hiking shorts
- Knickers (x2)
(nb no waterproof trousers)

Sundry
- Walking socks x 2
- Walking shoes
- Waterproof sandals
- Merino glove liners, sunhat, sunglasses
- Scarf (silk/wool blend, multi-purpose)

Note - that's absolutely everything so no dedicated sleepwear and it includes the clothes I'll be wearing at any given time. For sleeping at Orisson and Roncevalles I have both a light sleeping bag and a silk liner. (And if anyone thinks the sleeping bag is unnecessary, feel free to say so and I'll just buy a bum bag! May/June seems right on the edge for advice on Orisson/Roncevalles temperatures) Obviously a wash kit, some medical supplies and various sundries are along coming too - I've just listed clothing.

Also note - I'm still going to buy a new pack - the 18L is semi-broken and doesn't have a waist strap. The only question is how much bigger than 18L I need to go. I'd been looking at some 36L, which seemed a common size for others on this forum. But as matters stand things would be rattling around in it and I'm wondering whether to go for more like 22L which would still appear to leave room for the odd sandwich etc without tempting me to throw stuff in just because there's space.

Any and all thoughts gratefully received. Buon camino.

I've managed with a 20l pack. I store my sleeping bag outside the pack with a good waterproof bag for it. You'll probably need a rain poncho. It can get very wet on the camino.

 

[quinx]

I've just had a look at your blog, Nidarosa - some very useful stuff on there so thanks for the tips.

And I do indeed have my eye on the 30L Tempest. Your golite sounds amazing - roughly the same weight as the Tempest so it's just extra volume for free. I can't immediately see Golites on sale in the UK these days, but I'm sure there are similar lightweight options out there. Hmmm...

 

[quinx]

I've managed with a 20l pack. I store my sleeping bag outside the pack with a good waterproof bag for it. You'll probably need a rain poncho. It can get very wet on the camino.

Good to know.

I'd been planning just to keep my clothes and anything else that mattered in drysacs and let the pack get wet. Is that daft? It seemed like that would give me organisation and waterproofing in one hit. (Of course some of the packs come with integrated rain covers anyway)

 

[bunnymac]

Good to know.

I'd been planning just to keep my clothes and anything else that mattered in drysacs and let the pack get wet. Is that daft? It seemed like that would give me organisation and waterproofing in one hit. (Of course some of the packs come with integrated rain covers anyway)

I use large ziplocs from diy/homestore for inside my pack. Some sort of rain jacket/poncho is essential - I see you have rain jacket included. I prefer a poncho. BTW my pack was a discarded former schoolbag belonging to one of my kids.

 

[spursfan]

I need to buy a pack to do my first stage of the camino frances over the last weekend of May (only four days of it - all the time I have for now so just doing SJdPP - Pamplona but intending to go on to finish over 2 - 3 longer trips over the next few years).

Tonight I thought I'd get together what I thought I'd need, just to gauge size for my new pack.

To my surprise everything I want to take fits comfortably in a cheapo 18L bag I use for work, still leaving room for a couple of water bottles in the pockets. About half the pack volume is my sleeping bag and most of the rest is my spare clothes, which I can just about squish into a 3L drysack. I read a couple of threads with consistent advice to pare it right down - so I did. I didn't think I was being that extreme but comparing the volume with the sizes of bags I've read about I'm worried I've overdone it. SJdPP - Roncevalles may not exactly be scaling Mount Everest, but that just means it would be even more embarrassing to die by trying to cross in barely more than a bikini.

I've just done 6 days on the Norte with a 12L bag - and half of that was for carrying enough liquid - you could even get rid of the fleece top, zip-off trousers and sleeping bag and still be fine

 

[quinx]

Ha! These two responses came in just as I was thinking I'd chuck in some yoga tights and another top for extra spares/sleep and now you've sent me back the other way.

Ok then - I'm going to stop overthinking this. No one seems to think I'm doing anything dangerous and the rest I'll find out along the route.

 

[nidarosa]

@quinx - Golite sadly went out of business a short while ago but they are still sometimes available on eBay or similar. Good packs, but if you want lightweight and frameless look at Lowe Alpine Eclipse or Lightflite too, or the OMM 32, if you are in UK. Also consider a good poncho - that would do the job of the rain jacket, drybags and pack cover in one hit, plus act as a sitmat and extra blanket on cold nights if you bring only a liner. Nothing like your own sleeping bag at the end of the day IMHO, but what ever you do on this walk you will learn something useful for next time!

 

[Fatma]

I've just done 6 days on the Norte with a 12L bag - and half of that was for carrying enough liquid - you could even get rid of the fleece top, zip-off trousers and sleeping bag and still be fine

How do u sleep without a sleeping bag?

 

[spursfan]

How do u sleep without a sleeping bag?

Silk sleeping bag liner - weighs 140g

 

[Fatma]

Silk sleeping bag liner - weighs 140g

Ok so u travel in sommer? Yesterday night it was pretty cold even in my regular sleeping bag.

 

[spursfan]

Ok so u travel in sommer? Yesterday night it was pretty cold even in my regular sleeping bag.

I travelled in early May - by the end of May it should be warmer - I walk in Merino wool t-shirts - can also sleep in this if needed

 

[Fatma]

I travelled in early May - by the end of May it should be warmer - I walk in Merino wool t-shirts - can also sleep in this if needed

Good point will keep in mind.

 

[obinjatoo]

Well done! The best adage is,"less is more". I might add a very lihtweight pair of long johns and rain pants. If you can keep it to 18 liters or whatever that number was even better. Keep the sleeping bag, you may find a nice spot under a tree to sleep. Stranger things have happened.
I just came from south America where I was cycling. I met many back packers with huge back packs. They all had so much crap, they also sported large day packs they carried on the front. I can't imagine what they were carrying. Needless to say NONE of them were doing any real back packing. My point is, we NEVER need as much as we think we do.
In fact, I'm reorganizing to get back on the road and I'm going to cut A LOT of crap from my cycle kit.
Buen Camino!

 

[MaryLynn]

Do people get much use out of 35 - 40L *other* than on Camino? A daypack I at least know will get use, if only to carry water and a fleece on day hikes.

For the past five years I have used my Gregory 30L pack for all my caminos and I also use it when I go to Montreal to visit my daughter, because I can easily walk 45min to the train station, stash it easily on the train, transfer trains efficiently in Toronto, and, if for some reason my daughter cannot pick me up in Montreal, I can walk for an hour or two to her house. I can't do all of that comfortably with a suitcase, even with wheels. On the Camino, I always take my indoor-weight sleeping bag, which is quilted on one side and cotton on the other, because even in the summer there are albergues that can been quite cool at night and I don't like to be cold.

 

[Cleopas]

I agree about pack weight. The pack is likely to be my single heaviest item even if I go light which is one of the reasons I'm thinking about it so hard.

I wouldn't say money is no object, but I also have an eye to long term use - is, say, a 36L going to be too big for now yet too small for future (non Camino) trips carrying tent, etc? My last, much loved pack (I wore it right into the ground so I've thrown it out but I'd guess 50 litres) saw a lot of use as luggage for more sedate car/train/bus based holidays, with half the contents left in the back of the car for the odd overnight camping trip. Do people get much use out of 35 - 40L *other* than on Camino?

A daypack I at least know will get use, if only to carry water and a fleece on day hikes.

I have an REI flash 52L pack and a Gregory Freia 30L pack. I have found that I can manage using the 30L for a quick summer backpacking trip but that I need to bump up to the 52 for the fall or winter. The 30L is a little larger than I'd prefer for a daytrip, but it does the job for that too if needed. If you think that you will ever want to do an extended backpacking trip during which you'd be carrying all of your own gear, you may want to keep the 22L and pick up a larger 50+ pack in the future for camping trips. If you don't think you'd ever need a large pack, then you may want to go for a 30-36L pack to give more flexibility on having it double as a daypack and a camino pack.

Do keep in mind when buying a pack that the capacity from a small to large size can vary by several liters. Also, I don't have any back issues, and am in fairly good shape. If you have any sort of back concerns, it is well worth it to be carrying a few extra ounces in pack weight to have a pack with a good suspension system.

 

[quinx]

Well done! The best adage is,"less is more". I might add a very lihtweight pair of long johns and rain pants. If you can keep it to 18 liters or whatever that number was even better. Keep the sleeping bag, you may find a nice spot under a tree to sleep. Stranger things have happened.
I just came from south America where I was cycling. I met many back packers with huge back packs. They all had so much crap, they also sported large day packs they carried on the front. I can't imagine what they were carrying. Needless to say NONE of them were doing any real back packing. My point is, we NEVER need as much as we think we do.
In fact, I'm reorganizing to get back on the road and I'm going to cut A LOT of crap from my cycle kit.
Buen Camino!

I've dug out lightweight leggings and a third top. Neither the weight nor the volume will change things dramatically and I was in two minds about only having one change of clothes, so I'm now leaning towards bringing them along whatever pack I go for.

Less sure about rain pants - I've got some but I've always found them bulky, heavy, noisy and ultimately ineffective.

I completely agree with you about front backpacks - I've been known to be guilty of overloading myself when the purpose of the journey is to get from A to B, but why do that when the journey is the real destination?

 

[Ahhhs]

Nicely done. Less IS more. Much easier to pack and unpack and less to worry about.
Very freeing. For a short trip like yours you really don't need much.

PS...I never use Vaseline. Gunks up your socks. Yuck.

 

[koilife]

To answer the question of clothing, the common practice is one on your body and one in the bag. At the end of the day's walking, you shower and dress in the next day's clean clothes and then wash that day's dirty clothes. Unlike backcountry hiking, where stink buildup over four days isn't an issue, your fellow pilgrims on the Camino will appreciate more frequent washing.

I see that with your bra, socks, and knickers, but what will you wear while washing the rest? I suppose you can wear the t-shirt and wash the LS shirt, and then wear the LS and wash the T, but you still have to account for drying times. Alternately, you could simply use your fleece or rain jacket while washing and drying both LS and T. Not sure if your "zip-off trousers" are simply the legs to your shorts, or if they are truly two separate garments. If the later, then no issue. If the former, then you don't have much option for washing those (unless you're going for a scene out of the movie "The Way").

I doubt you'll really need rain pants. As long as your pack is waterproof (or your stuff sacks are), a rain jacket is fine. Many use a poncho to protect both pack and body, but religious wars are also fought here over imperfect rain systems. The integrated rain covers don't prevent ingress between the back of the person and the back of the pack. If all drysacked, your stuff will stay dry, but the pack will get heavier by several pounds from accumulated water.

 

[AlwynWellington]

@quinx, hi from Tardajos.

Having worn a hiking kilt since Le Puy (or more than 900 km) I can vouch for ditching any long trousers. Shorts are best and for four days you will only need one pair. But do get some light weight leg warmers if you think they might help.

Depending on what you think the temperature might be at Roncesvalles / Orreaga for your dates you could even think of leaving the sleeping bag at home. Although they don't seem to provide a blanket I understand many other albergue "down stream" do. Make a trade between the sleeping bag and the jacket. Without the bag, if you are cold at night wear everything. After all, this first trip is only three to four days.

A pack encompassing poncho is useful. If you have no electronic stuff the main thing to keep dry is yourself, so you don't get cold and then ill.

Ditch the cosmetics for four days, and for even longer trips, is another suggestion.

I suggest the ls top be merino also.

Buen camino (travel well)
Ultreia et suseia (go further and higher)
Kia kaha (be brave / strong)

 

[quinx]

To answer the question of clothing, the common practice is one on your body and one in the bag. At the end of the day's walking, you shower and dress in the next day's clean clothes and then wash that day's dirty clothes. Unlike backcountry hiking, where stink buildup over four days isn't an issue, your fellow pilgrims on the Camino will appreciate more frequent washing.

I see that with your bra, socks, and knickers, but what will you wear while washing the rest? I suppose you can wear the t-shirt and wash the LS shirt, and then wear the LS and wash the T, but you still have to account for drying times. Alternately, you could simply use your fleece or rain jacket while washing and drying both LS and T. Not sure if your "zip-off trousers" are simply the legs to your shorts, or if they are truly two separate garments. If the later, then no issue. If the former, then you don't have much option for washing those (unless you're going for a scene out of the movie "The Way").

I doubt you'll really need rain pants. As long as your pack is waterproof (or your stuff sacks are), a rain jacket is fine. Many use a poncho to protect both pack and body, but religious wars are also fought here over imperfect rain systems. The integrated rain covers don't prevent ingress between the back of the person and the back of the pack. If all drysacked, your stuff will stay dry, but the pack will get heavier by several pounds from accumulated water.

Yes, I definitely plan on doing laundry every night!

I had been planning on alternating the ls and the t for daywear - I've certainly used the ls for walks in full sun/blazing heat in the uk and found that at least when on the go it's cooling rather than hot to be covered. Can get sticky when I stop, though, or indoors/with absolutely no breeze.

The trousers and the shorts incorporate two separate pairs of shorts, yes. I hadn't considered leaving the legs at home but I suppose I could do that.

The original plan was to take two complete sets of walking gear. The alternative I suppose is to have one set of dry sacked/guaranteed not damp clothing for evenings and sleep only, which wouldn't need washing as often, and one (2?) sets for walking which I wear damp or not.

 

[quinx]

If all drysacked, your stuff will stay dry, but the pack will get heavier by several pounds from accumulated water.

Yeah, ok, you've persuaded me. That's a good reason to carry the extra weight of a cover/poncho.

 

[quinx]

@quinx,

Depending on what you think the temperature might be at Roncesvalles / Orreaga for your dates you could even think of leaving the sleeping bag at home. Although they don't seem to provide a blanket I understand many other albergue "down stream" do. Make a trade between the sleeping bag and the jacket. Without the bag, if you are cold at night wear everything. After all, this first trip is only three to four days.

I don't know! It's probably unpredictable anyway but I'm not even sure what the expected range is for end May/start June. The average temperatures for the two months are very different and I'm not sure how much colder orisson would be than st Jean anyway.

But either way, I've got three nights in albergues this trip, of which two (orisson and roncevalles) appear to involve sleeping with no blankets, so for the sake of 650g or so a bag seems likely to be well used.

I may not bother to bring it when I come back to complete the route - as I said I do quite like the idea of completing the route with essentially the same kit each time, but I figure that's just the equivalent of posting it home, right?

 

[koilife]

I hadn't considered leaving the legs at home but I suppose I could do that.

I wasn't suggesting that you leave the legs at home. I was just trying to ascertain whether you actually had two separate pair of pants/shorts so you had something other than knickers to wear while doing laundry!

 

[quinx]

I wasn't suggesting that you leave the legs at home. I was just trying to ascertain whether you actually had two separate pair of pants/shorts so you had something other than knickers to wear while doing laundry!

Fair enough. In fact, I've also got a scarf, a sheet sleeping bag, a miniature towel, a reflective emergency blanket... With a pack cover and a few stuff sacks on top I can do the dance of the seven veils!

 

[Ahhhs]

Don't overthink it. For four days you can get away with very little laundry.