Conversations with a Son

[Rambler]

Next week, my son and I leave for our time together on the Camino Frances. It will be a great 3 week period of time where we can strengthen our relationship and have an even greater bond. But this weekend, I realized that it would be good to think about some questions that would be great conversation starters to use to bring him out as we walk.

He is the typical 16 year old. I ask "How was school today?" "...Fine..."


So, since many of you all have kids or may have had questions you wished you asked them at this age (or maybe are close enough to his age to know what he would most be interested in talking to his Dad about), I thought I would open this thread to collect your ideas of questions to bring up as we walk. Once we get started I hope this will lead to some great discussions.

I just have to remember that this is not a time to lecture, just a time to connect.

Any ideas? Comments?

Thanks.
Rambler

 

[mitch237uk]

Rambler, years and even 5000 miles of ocean does not change the answer from our children, that's the same answer from my 2 boys and 2 girls, "fine". Take heart it gets easier as long as you remember those teenage hormones, my one's liked to hear about History and my young adult life.

Buen Camino

 

[Suzanne O' Mahony]

I walked the Camino last summer when I was fifteen with my dad. In my opinion you shouldn't have conversation planned out, it kind of just comes. My dad and I never really talked to each other before hand but on the Camino, I think we both learned so much about each other that we never knew before. We're as thick as thieves ( god that sounds so corny)

Conversation just comes on the Camino whether you want it to or not. But if all else fails just talk about what you expect your Camino to be like that always got me talking

 

[Rambler]

I walked the Camino last summer when I was fifteen with my dad. In my opinion you shouldn't have conversation planned out, it kind of just comes. My dad and I never really talked to each other before hand but on the Camino, I think we both learned so much about each other that we never knew before. We're as thick as thieves ( god that sounds so corny)

Conversation just comes on the Camino whether you want it to or not. But if all else fails just talk about what you expect your Camino to be like that always got me talking

Suzanne:
I totally agree with you that I don't want to make this into an interview. But I also realize that sometimes, you don't know how to start a conversation and so you both are just there in silence. Of course that is part of the Camino, but, I have found that sometimes asking a question the right way, makes all the difference.

I am not very good at that and wanted some ideas from people like you that may be more open ended questions to get things started.

But you are right that it will come whether we want it on not.

What for you was the one thing that you least expected on the Camino?
What was the hardest part for you?

Thanks.
Rambler

 

[koilife]

I walked last summer for six weeks with my 15 year old son. @Suzanne O' Mahony is right that the conversation can't be planned. You have a huge advantage in the adventure itself; just walking together forms a bond. You might let him help plan stages and identify areas, points of interest, or activities that might interest him.

Probably the best thing I did was simply give him room to be himself. Part of the time he was plugged into his iPod. Part of it was time in conversation with people we were walking with, and I left him room to participate in the discussion. The other walkers would ask him questions to draw him out, and I just faded into the background and let him talk. Sometimes I would bring up those earlier topics with open-ended questions and just let him talk. There was a gap, but it could be leaped over, between him sharing his interests with others in my hearing, and him sharing them with me. Part of it was simply saying a daily rosary as we walked, and even Mass where possible.

Another thing that helped was that he was welcome to a beer in the afternoon and/or glass of wine in the evening. It was one of those "what happens on the Camino <mostly> stays on the Camino" allowances. The very process of the Camino was something of a rite of passage or a coming of age for him, and because I gave him greater latitude and responsibility than he otherwise enjoyed at home, he was also more open to deeper discussions about his hopes and dreams. As part of that, I was open about my own.

One of the great opportunities that I didn't expect, but took advantage of when they presented themselves, were the teachable moments that came from the behavior of other pilgrims. Whether it was the party crowd of young adults, or the two drunks who fell off the top bunk, or the young man who went through three women in as many weeks, these were all teachable moments simply by observing the behaviors and talking about the potential consequences. It didn't require any preaching or moralizing on my part; the lessons were obvious even to a teenage boy.

The time together was priceless for our relationship. The Camino isn't magic, but it was a huge gift to our relationship just the same.

Enjoy this time with your son!

 

[WanderingNotLost]

Rambler, let me start by stating that I envy your opportunity to share this experience with your son. I wanted my 18 yr old son to join me as a high school graduation present, but he chose to get a summer job and stay in town so he can try out for the Ohio State Marching Band. TBDBITL.

To answer your question. Start with "what do you think". The topic can be anything. Start with the "light" topics first. IE, things you see around you, sports, food, etc. In due time I'm sure you both will soon be exploring opinions on deeper more serious topics.

FYI, I walk out of Pamplona mid-day on June 4th. If our paths cross and you are still searching for things to talk to your son about, you can always ask him "what do you think is up with that nut job".

Buen Camino.

 

[Suzanne O' Mahony]

Suzanne:
I totally agree with you that I don't want to make this into an interview. But I also realize that sometimes, you don't know how to start a conversation and so you both are just there in silence. Of course that is part of the Camino, but, I have found that sometimes asking a question the right way, makes all the difference.

I am not very good at that and wanted some ideas from people like you that may be more open ended questions to get things started.

But you are right that it will come whether we want it on not.

What for you was the one thing that you least expected on the Camino?
What was the hardest part for you?

Thanks.
Rambler

Rambler,

I'd say the thing I least expected was how nice and hospitable everyone was. I thought that no one would want to walk with us because I was much younger than everyone else and that I wasn't going to make a 'Camino Family'. This was of course not the case and I met the most brilliant people on the way. I was also amazed as to how was the walking became after the first week, like 20km was a rest day to our group.

One thing I found regarding myself is that I didn't want to talk to my friends. In most Albergues I had access to WiFi, Facebook and Tumblr, yet I couldn't bare talking to my friends. They didn't understand what I was doing and why. They thought I was mad in the head to spend my Summer walking in Spain. I had rather (and still do) spend time with my dad and new friends who were experiencing the same things as I was.

At the start carrying my pack was pretty difficult. My shoulders were aching and my back was sore. There were times at the start (especially walking over the Pyrenees) when I felt like giving up but I knew I just couldn't, for myself and for my dad. It got much easier as time went on and the sense of accomplishment when we arrived at the Cathedral was unbelievable.

As for conversation starters, my dad always went "Would anyone in your year do this" or "If they could see you now blah blah blah". Talk about the people you met or about yourself. I found out so many deadly things about my dad that I had never known. Talk about people you have met or your expectations for the day's walk. Just please don't talk about school it's Summer. And don't fret, you'll be walking with people in a few days time.

When will you be walking?

Suzanne

 

[Rambler]

I walked last summer for six weeks with my 15 year old son. @Suzanne O' Mahony is right that the conversation can't be planned. You have a huge advantage in the adventure itself; just walking together forms a bond. You might let him help plan stages and identify areas, points of interest, or activities that might interest him.

The time together was priceless for our relationship. The Camino isn't magic, but it was a huge gift to our relationship just the same.

Enjoy this time with your son!

Koi:
I am going to try to leave the planning to him once we get to SJPP, so hopefully he will enjoy that. I am looking forward to the time.
Thanks.
Rambler

 

[Rambler]

FYI, I walk out of Pamplona mid-day on June 4th. If our paths cross and you are still searching for things to talk to your son about, you can always ask him "what do you think is up with that nut job".

Dozer:
We will be within a day of you front or back. If you see a father son, ask if they are Rambler. Would like to put a name to a "nut job"!!!


Rambler

 

[Rambler]

When will you be walking?

Suzanne

Suzanne:
You are wise indeed.
I hope my son gets as much out of it as you seemed to gain.

We arrive in St Jean May 31.

Rambler

 

[wayfarer]

Suzanne you have great wisdom for a sixteen yr old. The Camino has obviously had a great and positive effect on you.

 

[Suzanne O' Mahony]

Rambler,

Just a quick thing and I doubt you will do this; but don't 'mammy' him. Let him walk ahead of you or behind. Let him be in control of some things. It will make him appreciate it all more. Treat him as a Peregrino

 

[Rambler]

Rambler,

Just a quick thing and I doubt you will do this; but don't 'mammy' him. Let him walk ahead of you or behind. Let him be in control of some things. It will make him appreciate it all more. Treat him as a Peregrino

Will do. Thanks for the insights.

Rambler

 

[WanderingNotLost]

Rambler, saw your post related to being in SJPDP on the 31st. Don't know if that is day you start or not until the 1st. If the 1st and you are stopping in Orison, our paths will very likely cross at some point soon after Pamplona. This will be my 3rd Camino, 2nd CF. I have approx 35 days to walk before I have to head home so I will be ambling along. Did CF from SJPDP to Santiago in 30 days in 2012. Figure from Pamplona I can go even slower and still reach the ocean in 35 days. When our paths meet you will know who I am very quickly. Many years ago I was awarded the title of Director of Mirth and Merriment for the Cosmos. I've managed to maintain the title even without too much help from a bottle. Sanity is an overrated state of mind. I find it's much more fun to be just a little off and bring joy to those around me.

 

[Rambler]

Don't know if that is day you start or not until the 1st. If the 1st and you are stopping in Orison, our paths will very likely cross at some point soon after Pamplona.

We plan to start on the 2nd. I learned from my first Camino that if you rush the start, you pay for it in a few days. So we are taking Sunday to acclimatize, jetlag, and tour St Jean. Then we are off to Roncevalles the next day.

Dozer, I will be looking for a dancing man with bells on his toes.

If you see my son and I together, you will know things are good. If we are apart a few minutes (or hours) distance, I must have said or done something stupid...

Rambler

 

[WanderingNotLost]

Rambler, funny you mentioned dancing. Last year in the middle of nowhere in Portugal I wrote the following journal entry.
"If Craig is dancing in the middle of the forest and no one is around to see, does it means he's nuts".

As for bells on my toes, I had to give those up. They clash with my Tierra and taffeta gown.

 

[Tincatinker]

Firstly, respect to Suzanne!

And for my contribution. I hiked a lot with my son in his teen years and I believe it made a contribution to the loving relationship we have now as he cruises into his 30's. The togetherness of a long rough haul gave us ways to bond that day-to-day life would never have. On the subject of "questions": sitting in a bar in Ubrique after a 34k day through the Grazelema national park I asked him what had been the best bit of the day. I waited for him to say eagles, vultures, wild boar, the profound silence of ancient cork oak forest, the first glimpse of the town.. He said "this beer". We laughed together as we had not for over a decade.
At Roncevalles in 2012 I met an American father and son, contemplating their first day, wary of each other but even warier of the Camino. They weren't talking to each other much, nor to other peregrinos, just passing their Brierley back n forth and not quite deciding to pick up their packs walk. I'll swear they went to the toilets together, but mainly to watch that neither legged it - back home or to Santiago.

Somewhere in the vineyards of Bierzo about 4 weeks later I met and recognised the son. He was with a mixed group of older and younger and appeared very happy. I asked him where his dad was and he replied "Dunno, but we're meeting in Ave Fenix". I then asked if they had fallen out and got the following reply: "shit no man, like, these days we trust each other".

Buen Camino

 

[Rambler]

Firstly, respect to Suzanne!
asked him where his dad was and he replied "Dunno, but we're meeting in Ave Fenix". I then asked if they had fallen out and got the following reply: "shit no man, like, these days we trust each other".

Suzanne is right. Give him his space.

When my daughter and I did the Camino in 2008, a Welsh photographer befriended us and she and he would walk the day together and I was way behind taking pictures. I think she enjoyed the time with him and it put us in a group of pilgrims that was perfect for her.

Rambler

 

[wawpdx]

I love this thread!

 

[tyrrek]

Great advice and insights, although I don't speak from any experience other than being an ex-teenage boy. I love the idea of a rite of passage, not to make him prove anything, but for both of you to embrace the new relationship that will exist between you as he becomes more independent. Yes, let him go off on his own - you'll never be that far apart, even if you're sleeping in neighbouring villages every now and then. You'll see each others' (and your own) vulnerabilities and common humanity as we see it in all other pilgrims. You'll share friends. How great to have the chance to explore and cement these things in a time of excitement, happiness and adventure.

 

[jumpingin2014]

I don't want to take away from what is in your heart for your son but having just gone through this with my 22 year old daughter last year I am compelled to to respond. We all think "boy when I was young I could have done this Camino thing easy." Not so .......... if you are not use to walking long distances this journey is a physical shocker. You might consider how you are going to deal with the stress he will be under - which in my opinion made the relationship with my daughter stronger than ever. We went through a sort of a emotional cycle where she was mad at me for putting her through this - all way to tears of joy for completing it. The Camino didn't make parenting easier in my opinion it made it better. To this day we still struggle to communicate but we always have this bond now ........ which I think made the entire experience worth it. Enjoy and have fun !

 

[MichelleNichols]

I'm hiking the Camino w my 22-year old daughter who's been away for 4 years at college and will move out on her own soon after we finish the Camino.

It's not so much through what I ask her but what she shares w others on our hike and socializing that I'm getting to know her. Later, I might ask her more about a comment she made but like the others have said, relax, and follow your fatherly heart. If it got you this far, hiking the Camino w him, you can trust it.

 

[Rambler]

...I could have done this Camino thing easy." Not so ..........

J I 14:
You are so right!!!
My daughter and I did the Camino in 2008 and after 4 days, she was crying and ready to quit. She hated the albergues and the men walking around in their underwear. She had not slept well in four nights. We took a break day and got a hotel where she slept away most the day. That made a huge difference.
She did not have physical issues because she was an athlete finishing off her season as we left, but the emotional part hit her. She was also the second youngest pilgrim we met that year, so she did not have lots of peers to relate to. That is why it was great that we got in with a group or younger "Commonwealthers" and became part of a family.

This go round, I am more concerned because neither my son or I have trained as we should have for this walk. This has caused more friction between than anything because he has not even broken in his shoes well. But no amount of talking on my part will make him do it. There are very likely going to be some very hard days.

As parents, I think we often forget to talk to our kids in a way to get them to open up. That really is the reason for this thread. We are always feeling like we need to motivate, counsel, preach, or remind them on all those subjects that are going to be so important for them in the future. But we don't often ask the questions that others, often outside the family, may bring up that open a whole different part of our children up that we did not know.

We tend to not ask open ended questions and go to the same well worn paths that we have been down so many times. I don't want to do that, and especially with him, it is easy to do.

Rambler

 

[Suzanne O' Mahony]

Suzanne you have great wisdom for a sixteen yr old. The Camino has obviously had a great and positive effect on you.

Ah you know, on the Camino you never come back the same person

 

[koilife]

I don't want to take away from what is in your heart for your son but having just gone through this with my 22 year old daughter last year I am compelled to to respond. We all think "boy when I was young I could have done this Camino thing easy." Not so .......... if you are not use to walking long distances this journey is a physical shocker. You might consider how you are going to deal with the stress he will be under - which in my opinion made the relationship with my daughter stronger than ever. We went through a sort of a emotional cycle where she was mad at me for putting her through this - all way to tears of joy for completing it. The Camino didn't make parenting easier in my opinion it made it better. To this day we still struggle to communicate but we always have this bond now ........ which I think made the entire experience worth it. Enjoy and have fun !

I couldn't agree more. My son struggled with tendinitis (arguably because he refused to listen to what I had to teach about proper climbing and descending technique, so he over stressed his knees in the process). In many respects it was the classic case of youthful exuberance not knowing how to pace itself for a marathon rather than a sprint, and nothing I could say would change his approach until he learned the lesson the hard way. Suddenly, he recognized my advice as a necessity for his own well being. Just the other day, I overheard him in the other room saying to our middle son, who is making his camino in 2015, "You'll be surprised at just how much Dad knows. If he gives you advice, listen to it." My wife and I just smiled at each other, and my heart swelled with pride for him.

Regardless, one of the great parts of our Camino for me was having to care for him in his struggles (which included carrying a significant portion of his pack weight) without treating him like a child, and for him it was that he had to allow me to care for him. Thus, along with "coming of age" for him, there was a growing appreciation of our father-son relationship in a very healthy way.

As parents, I think we often forget to talk to our kids in a way to get them to open up. That really is the reason for this thread. We are always feeling like we need to motivate, counsel, preach, or remind them on all those subjects that are going to be so important for them in the future. But we don't often ask the questions that others, often outside the family, may bring up that open a whole different part of our children up that we did not know.

We tend to not ask open ended questions and go to the same well worn paths that we have been down so many times. I don't want to do that, and especially with him, it is easy to do.

That was exactly my experience, and much of his growth was organic in the very process of struggling and triumphing against the Camino itself. My growth was in giving him the space to learn on his own, without pulling so far back that he failed altogether and gave up.

 

[Roger Hogstrom]

I walked with my son in year 2000 from Roncesvalles to Santiago when he was 14 years old. I learned a couple of things the first 5 days. Don´t start at 6.30 with a teennager and don´t walk to fast. When we stayed in small places he got easely bored and he had a book to read.
Now when he is 29 I can be happy to see what this camino gave us.
He still make jokes about a stressed father day 3 from Pamplona eating youghurt with his fingers 6.30 in the morning and at the same time trying to walk.
We decided to slow down the day from Estella, much better .

Good luck, Roger from Sweden

 

[David]

When each of my children became teenagers I decided to ask them for help sorting out problems I might have. As in, a business decision I had to make - I wanted to break the "father knows, children don't" situation that teenagers seem to suffer from - their main complaint being that "no one listens to me". Most times I already knew what I intended to do but I wanted to bring them into the discussion, I wanted their thoughts to be valued. It seemed to work rather well. Sometimes they stunned me with their clarity. Our relationships survived the teenage years without many traumas - they never went into silent mode with me - they still seem to like me, even now.

So - as you asked, I would suggest that you don't think in terms of questions to ask, conversation starters, as they may come across as false - better to engage him in all decision making, as an equal voter. Two pilgrims out there, two men out there. You love him, he loves you ... he may (will) have insights that you hadn't even thought of. And there is nothing wrong with being faulty, human, nothing wrong with telling him stories about how you messed up back then, when you too were run by hormones and self-consciousness !!

When my son was 11 I took him and his cousin to Barcelona (the girls went with mother to a Greek island). We drove from the UK. I wanted him to see the Pyrenees. I wanted him to see cave paintings. I took him to the Gaudi buildings, including the great unfinished cathedral in Barcelona. I took him to the Salvadore Dali museum. I wanted to show him the great works by two men who did not fit into the box, who were individuals .... when we got home I asked him what was the best moment for him. He said it was when the policeman on the motorcycle with the big moustache and and even bigger gun, stopped us because I accidentally drove through a red light in Barcelona. - What can you do!

 

[MKalcolm M]

Many years ago,in my late teens I spent two years hitching hiking around North America, and in the second summer my mother came out and joined me for three months. I learned some some good rules then about two generations traveling together in very different circumstances from home. Firstly, make all decisions mutualy. Secondly, share your money equally with a mutual fund rather than one person having the funds and the other asking permission to spend it. Be open to each other and their ideas and opinions and be prepared to change your opinions and your views of each other. My mother proved to be much cooler than I anticipated, but also I was much older and wordly wise than she thought I was. If either needs space or time alone, allow it. Be prepared to bend the rules, I drank beer, went dancing to all hours and flirted with young women while my mother discretely turned a blind eye, while I equally agreed to rest days and museum trips that I normally wouldn't. Over the summer we turned what had been a stressful and difficult relationship into a deeply loving friendship, that was based on two adults relating openly rather than an authority based adult/child relationship. I look forward to walking the camino with my daughter at some time in the future and will draw on the memories of that summer with my Mum for guidelines. I hope you both have a great time!

 

[Lisa Cook]

Dear Rambler,
ENJOY IT,
Enjoy every blessed second of it.
Embrace all of his immaturity and goofiness and teenage moments.
Love his incredible appetite and newly deep loud voice.
Love the stinky feet and bad jokes and worse music.
PLEASE< please.
TRUST me.

I hesitate to answer your question honestly, but feel compelled to do so. Forgive me...

For many years, my almost 17 year old son and I (see Avatar) had the blessed opportunity to travel together all over the world, mostly on Cruise ships (long story.) Usually these trips were 2-3 weeks with lots of activities. By far, our favorites were always the transatlantics when we were together for 7-9 days at a time before the crazy port- a- day part of the trip--which then became a special extension of our time. I also homeschool Trey and my two younger daughters. So we already had lots of time together. Me always pushing him. Sometimes too hard.

Anyway....last year we had a chance to spend many long days together. We realized we had been to Rome and Isreal, but not yet Santiago de Compestela which we had learned about while travelling on the Costa del Sol, and began planning our trip. Sadly, the reason we were together was that Trey was in the hospital and on the ninth day he had a pulmonary embolism and after fighting bravely for six hours, my sweet boy died.
Yesterday was the one year anniversary of the beginning of hell for us. I have been considering walking the Camino myself, alone. and just found this forum. This is my first post. Part of the issue is that because of MY health reasons, Trey said he would carry my pack...God bless him. Now that he is gone, I will have to find another way.

So my most humble advice is to get on your knees and thank God for every moment you have with your son on and off the Camino. Every day.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Forgive me for bringing such drama to your thread. Here is a picture of us in St. Petersbug.

 

[Icacos]

Dear Rambler,
ENJOY IT,
Enjoy every blessed second of it.
Embrace all of his immaturity and goofiness and teenage moments.
Love his incredible appetite and newly deep loud voice.
Love the stinky feet and bad jokes and worse music.
PLEASE< please.
TRUST me.

I hesitate to answer your question honestly, but feel compelled to do so. Forgive me...

For many years, my almost 17 year old son and I (see Avatar) had the blessed opportunity to travel together all over the world, mostly on Cruise ships (long story.) Usually these trips were 2-3 weeks with lots of activities. By far, our favorites were always the transatlantics when we were together for 7-9 days at a time before the crazy port- a- day part of the trip--which then became a special extension of our time. I also homeschool Trey and my two younger daughters. So we already had lots of time together. Me always pushing him. Sometimes too hard.

Anyway....last year we had a chance to spend many long days together. We realized we had been to Rome and Isreal, but not yet Santiago de Compestela which we had learned about while travelling on the Costa del Sol, and began planning our trip. Sadly, the reason we were together was that Trey was in the hospital and on the ninth day he had a pulmonary embolism and after fighting bravely for six hours, my sweet boy died.
Yesterday was the one year anniversary of the beginning of hell for us. I have been considering walking the Camino myself, alone. and just found this forum. This is my first post. Part of the issue is that because of MY health reasons, Trey said he would carry my pack...God bless him. Now that he is gone, I will have to find another way.

So my most humble advice is to get on your knees and thank God for every moment you have with your son on and off the Camino. Every day.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Forgive me for bringing such drama to your thread. Here is a picture of us in St. Petersbug.

I'm so very sorry for your loss, Lisa. I hope the Camino provides you with lasting solace.

 

[Lotta]

Rambler! This was really a gift! Tnx for starting! On monday, June 23rd, I and my 16yr doughter fly to Madrid, from Stockholm/Sweden! And start our camino in Pamplona the very next day! I have read all your words! Thank you everybody for charing your experience.
This is an adventure for sure, but with Suzanne's wise words i feel much more comfortable!
Lotta/Sweden

 

[jumpingin2014]

Dear Rambler,
ENJOY IT,
Enjoy every blessed second of it.
Embrace all of his immaturity and goofiness and teenage moments.
Love his incredible appetite and newly deep loud voice.
Love the stinky feet and bad jokes and worse music.
PLEASE< please.
TRUST me.

I hesitate to answer your question honestly, but feel compelled to do so. Forgive me...

For many years, my almost 17 year old son and I (see Avatar) had the blessed opportunity to travel together all over the world, mostly on Cruise ships (long story.) Usually these trips were 2-3 weeks with lots of activities. By far, our favorites were always the transatlantics when we were together for 7-9 days at a time before the crazy port- a- day part of the trip--which then became a special extension of our time. I also homeschool Trey and my two younger daughters. So we already had lots of time together. Me always pushing him. Sometimes too hard.

Anyway....last year we had a chance to spend many long days together. We realized we had been to Rome and Isreal, but not yet Santiago de Compestela which we had learned about while travelling on the Costa del Sol, and began planning our trip. Sadly, the reason we were together was that Trey was in the hospital and on the ninth day he had a pulmonary embolism and after fighting bravely for six hours, my sweet boy died.
Yesterday was the one year anniversary of the beginning of hell for us. I have been considering walking the Camino myself, alone. and just found this forum. This is my first post. Part of the issue is that because of MY health reasons, Trey said he would carry my pack...God bless him. Now that he is gone, I will have to find another way.

So my most humble advice is to get on your knees and thank God for every moment you have with your son on and off the Camino. Every day.
Sincerely,
Lisa
Forgive me for bringing such drama to your thread. Here is a picture of us in St. Petersbug.

Lisa thank you for sharing your story - May god bless you and your son and help you find peace

Mark