Considerations about Gear and Clothing Recommendations

[davebugg]

Foreword Note: I know this is a wordy post. For those who want to avoid the entire read, and get right to the conclusion, you can skip down to where you see +++

Many of you know that a large part of my life has been as a so-called 'expert' who is hired by backpacking gear and clothing and shoe manufacturers to evaluate their products for quality control, performance, and usability. My skill set includes one highly important ability that is essential for proper evaluation: To be able to set aside subjective concerns in order to focus on objective measurements and observations. Objective evaluation involves a lot of functional comparisons, including during actual use in similar conditions and circumstances.

Unless something that I am testing is brutally painful and debilitating, or dangerous, I can ignore what is less than ideal or slightly uncomfortable, and focus on the quality of the gear or clothing/shoe itself.

Example: I have tested shoes that I have absolutely hated wearing. I did not like how they 'felt' on my feet. At all. However, my role and focus during testing are Quality Control issues: construction, longevity, what is claimed for motion control, cushioning materials durability, stability, and traction issues, etc.

Of course I would make a note of WHY I did not like the feel of the shoe in my reports, but I avoided coloring my objective observations because of my dislike of those shoes.

That is why manufacturers will hire quite a few people to do the same testing, and to do the same testing throughout the period of time that a piece of gear or clothing is on the inventory for manufacture. They know that every individual tester 'feels' and 'interacts' with a product differently, just as their customers will. The manufacturer is seeking out common issues and problems with use, to account for the performance 'outliers', and to look for the weakness that occur during all spectrum's of use regardless of how the product gets used, or how it feels and fits.

The bottom line point: Many people will buy an item based solely on other people's subjective recommendations, rather than taking time to try out gear for fit and feel and usability based on their unique needs and wants. Online ordering has made this a quite common way for choosing what to purchase; Amazon-style ratings and reviews take the place of going into a store to touch, examine, and interact with a product.

Relying solely on opinions and ratings to decide on which light bulb or a crockpot to buy is workable. These things either work and function as intended, or not. I can read opinions and reviews for a stand mixer, sort out those opinions to only those who mix heavy bread doughs, and get a good idea of what real world performance will be like.

The same process is not so easy when needing to purchase trail runners, a new mattress for the bed, or a backpack for distance walking. There are too many individual considerations involved, all of which can lead to a massive failure for those who need a specific comfort level in a mattress, or a backpacks, or shoes, and clothing.

What feels good and performs well for one person, might be ‘Misery on A Stick’ for someone else.

Sleep systems are a good, overall example. These are sleeping bags, sleeping quilts, sleeping bag liners, air mattresses, or sleeping pads.

A well-intentioned individual makes a Forum post stating that a 'liner bag' is all that is needed for sleeping while on a Camino. Now, we have no knowledge of that individual's baseline temperature comfort level. Does that individual feel chilled inside an alburgue dorm room when the ambient temperature is at 80f (27c), or is s/he perfectly comfortable while standing outside, naked and soaked with water at 37f (3c)?.

When we then translate this issue to the process of shopping for a piece of sleeping gear, like a sleeping bag or a sleeping quilt, the largest problem for a consumer trying to figure out what to purchase, are a manufacturers stated Temperature Rating Ranges.

Because there is a huge variation of individual comfort while sleeping, there is no reliable baseline temperature that covers everyone. That is why sleeping bag and quilt manufacturers use a temperature 'range' to describe the parameters of its product to consumers. But that's not the problem in and of itself. The problem is HOW a manufacturer arrives at that comfort range. Some manufacturers can be a bit sneaky with this rating.

When I have been contacted by companies to test a bag or quilt or air mattress, I am asked various questions that boil down to this: "are you a cold or a hot sleeper'? That is an understandable question. The sneaky part comes in when they know that I am a hot sleeper and they are ONLY selecting hot sleepers. They want us hot sleepers (who would be comfortable with a wet sheet at 37f/3c ) to give 'thumbs up' to their desire to state a low temperature rating of, say, 32f/0c, for a sleeping bag that many might find uncomfortable at 45f (7c).

Yeah, it happens. . a lot more than I would have expected. If I find out that this is what is happening, I will quit. Fortunately, there are a lot of sleeping gear manufacturers who will bend over backwards to give as accurate a rating as is humanly reasonable.

+++ So what should be a primary consideration when a Forum member takes the time to post that "this pack, or "that shoe" or "that pant" is what they use and that they would recommend it to others?

Simple. Folks can consider personal recommendations not as recommendations to purchase a specific bit of gear or clothing. Instead, treat it as an item to add to your list of products to consider for a tryout to see how each might work for your needs. I do that all the time.

I would also highly recommend that shop local, especially now with the need to support local businesses during the COVID-19 Economic Pandemic. If the shop does not have exactly what you want, then see if they are willing to order it in for you to try out, even if it costs a bit more money than from an AmazonDecathalonREI. Do not take something that is less than suitable for your needs, but do make an effort to give local stores a first crack at earning your business. Just make sure you understand their returns policy if you try something and it doesn't work out.

I am asked a lot about what I would recommend for gear and clothing and shoes. I don't mind folks asking one bit. People who are novices are feeling around and trying to find a place to start.

I will share what I know from experience, or the experience of others who I know and trust, as to what a well-constructed and designed piece of gear or shoes or ... whatever . . might be that seems to fit what the person is looking for. My suggestions are for auditioning only to try it for fit and feel and personal usability; something to add to the list of items to consider before making a decision to purchase.

End Note, so feel free to stop reading : My current status as a Quality Control tester.

"Sometimes you're the Louisville Slugger, baby, sometimes you're the ball. Sometimes it all comes together, sometimes you're going to lose it all" - - Dire Straits

"The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want" - - David, the King who had once been a shepherd.

Since becoming ill many months ago, and now beginning recovery in both body and spirit, I have had to temporarily decline most contracts to do quality control testing which would involve the real life testing of gear and clothing. What is happening, though, are that many companies, especially the bleeding-edge makers of gear and clothing in the cottage manufacturing sector, are still asking me to evaluate products. They ask that I stick to what is able to be observed and detailed aside from actively doing real world, hardcore, wear and use testing on the trail.

So while I am currently not out and about using stuff while on training hikes in the Cascades and on backpacking trips, I am providing feedback by loading up backpacks and checking their usability for packing stuff and accessing stuff, assessing where I can see issues of potential weakness, premature wear and stress, and for comfort and fit during my daily walks. I can wear trail runners when walking around the house and outside, and also giving various insulating layers and rain gear a go.

This is actually pretty anemic stuff compared to what I am normally hired to do, and in my heart I know part of this is because of the long history and relationships I have developed with these companies. More than a few of the owners and managers kept in close touch while I was dealing with AML treatments. Some even going so far as to offer jobs in their QA departments if I ever choose to move and live within commuting distance to their physical locations.

I know that they are being kind and have other options for gear testers, and that my involvement is superficial compared to doing actual real world testing for quality control issues. They will rely on other testers for those things.

This has never been a 'full-time job" for me, it has always been fitted in with my regular professional money making jobs in other fields. But it is something that has never felt like work, and has even, at times, made me feel a tad guilty for being paid.

I have no clue whether or not I will ever be able to provide a 'normal' level of testing, but for now I am grateful that it hasn't just disappeared altogether and I still get to touch and play with terrific gear and stuff.

 

[Anhalter]

Sometimes it's hard not to get carried away.
I met way to many people on the camino, that had equipment that - seemed to - make it harder for them to have a joyful experience. And yes, besides maybe fear of the unknown, i blamed this on the eager salesperson in the sporting goods shop that has everything from fishing to golf to hiking. Maybe out of this i developed a bit of a "zeal" to get people to rethink what they are carrying.
But then, i absolutely agree with you, what works for me does not have to work for someone else. I try to remember that when posting... but then, sometimes i don't.
For me, very personally, getting my gear solely from internet advice and online shops worked really good, even when i had absolutely no prior experience in long distance hiking or the camino (and no, i have only joined corresponding online communities after returning home). But then, the local sporting good store is kind of a letdown (and there is only the one). This might be vastly different in countries with a more educated community or bigger cities.

And in regard to the quality of equipment: I differentiate a bit what is good or excellent equipment, and what is good enough for the job. A GTX Pro Jacket with a 20.000mm water level might be great. Any flimsy 20€ rainjacket thats reasonably light will likely be sufficient for a summer camino...

 

[davebugg]

Sometimes it's hard not to get carried away.
I met way to many people on the camino, that had equipment that - seemed to - make it harder for them to have a joyful experience. And yes, besides maybe fear of the unknown, i blamed this on the eager salesperson in the sporting goods shop that has everything from fishing to golf to hiking. Maybe out of this i developed a bit of a "zeal" to get people to rethink what they are carrying.
But then, i absolutely agree with you, what works for me does not have to work for someone else. I try to remember that when posting... but then, sometimes i don't.
For me, very personally, getting my gear solely from internet advice and online shops worked really good, even when i had absolutely no prior experience in long distance hiking or the camino (and no, i have only joined corresponding online communities after returning home). But then, the local sporting good store is kind of a letdown (and there is only the one). This might be vastly different in countries with a more educated community or bigger cities.

And in regard to the quality of equipment: I differentiate a bit what is good or excellent equipment, and what is good enough for the job. A GTX Pro Jacket with a 20.000mm water level might be great. Any flimsy 20€ rainjacket thats reasonably light will likely be sufficient for a summer camino...

I think it is good for folks to know what possibilities exist for gear; that includes hyperlite and expensive, to lightweight and moderately priced, to the army/military surplus stuff that can be found dirt cheap.
Zeal is great!!! In the 1960's at the age of 14, my first 7 day solo backpacking trip through the North Cascades on the Cascade Crest Trail (now part of the PCT) had a total backpack weight of 57 pounds. . . food, gear, fuel, stove, cooking gear, sleeping gear etc. Today, that same load weighs around 16 pounds -and get lighter every day as food is eaten.

Your observation about the quality of equipment is something that goes hand-in-hand with how to assess the 'cost' of a piece of gear.

I encourage people, who can are able afford the expense, to never consider the price of a piece of gear or clothing as the primary factor in determining actual value. My criteria is based on Cost Per Mile (kilometer).

If I am needing gear to ONLY walk a 500 mile Camino, hyperlite clothing and gear become much more expensive to me, than if I need that same clothing and gear to last for 5,000 miles/8046 km.

Suddenly, that $125.00, two ounce/57 gm cuben fiber poncho not only contributes to an ultralight load, but it goes from costing about 0.25 cents per mile, to costing only 0.025 cents per mile. That $600.00, 19 ounce/ 539 gm tent goes from costing $1.20/mile to costing 0.12 cents/mile.

As with everything, each person's budget will determine how much one can and should invest in equipment. It does help, however, to consider that a less expensive tent that needs replacing every three years, can end up being far more expensive than a more expensive tent which will last for 6 years.

The technology changes in backpacking gear and clothing at the hyperlight side also keeps trickling down as the materials become cheaper to manufacture. Various nylon-based textiles that were so expensive that they were only used by higher end products, are now much cheaper and are seen even in Chinese goods at a Decathlon or Walmart or Big 5 Sporting. They bring the overall weight of these more budget friendly choices. Unfortunately, the overall workmanship and construction will still not be up to the toughness and durability of the high priced spreads.

BUT, as you said, it the gear is not so durable, but is pretty light, if the price is right it only needs to be 'just good enough'.

 

[Deleted member 61803]

And of course people giving advice more often than not give it based on the size of their own wallets.

 

[Former member 91017]

I think it is good for folks to know what possibilities exist for gear; that includes hyperlite and expensive, to lightweight and moderately priced, to the army/military surplus stuff that can be found dirt cheap.
Zeal is great!!! In the 1960's at the age of 14, my first 7 day solo backpacking trip through the North Cascades on the Cascade Crest Trail (now part of the PCT) had a total backpack weight of 57 pounds. . . food, gear, fuel, stove, cooking gear, sleeping gear etc. Today, that same load weighs around 16 pounds -and get lighter every day as food is eaten.

Your observation about the quality of equipment is something that goes hand-in-hand with how to assess the 'cost' of a piece of gear.

I encourage people, who can are able afford the expense, to never consider the price of a piece of gear or clothing as the primary factor in determining actual value. My criteria is based on Cost Per Mile (kilometer).

If I am needing gear to ONLY walk a 500 mile Camino, hyperlite clothing and gear become much more expensive to me, than if I need that same clothing and gear to last for 5,000 miles/8046 km.

Suddenly, that $125.00, two ounce/57 gm cuben fiber poncho not only contributes to an ultralight load, but it goes from costing about 0.25 cents per mile, to costing only 0.025 cents per mile. That $600.00, 19 ounce/ 539 gm tent goes from costing $1.20/mile to costing 0.12 cents/mile.

As with everything, each person's budget will determine how much one can and should invest in equipment. It does help, however, to consider that a less expensive tent that needs replacing every three years, can end up being far more expensive than a more expensive tent which will last for 6 years.

The technology changes in backpacking gear and clothing at the hyperlight side also keeps trickling down as the materials become cheaper to manufacture. Various nylon-based textiles that were so expensive that they were only used by higher end products, are now much cheaper and are seen even in Chinese goods at a Decathlon or Walmart or Big 5 Sporting. They bring the overall weight of these more budget friendly choices. Unfortunately, the overall workmanship and construction will still not be up to the toughness and durability of the high priced spreads.

BUT, as you said, it the gear is not so durable, but is pretty light, if the price is right it only needs to be 'just good enough'.

I love the "cost per km" model. Highly recommend!!!

I've been using it for years now with my shoes, packs and coats. As a non-driver who gave up using the bus to get to and from work after my first camino, I get about 3000 km per year on my stuff. Boots can last me 3-4 winters depending on conditions. "Summer" hikers only last me one year because I wear them from March to November. I think I worked it out to a total of about 15 cents per km, and I don't need a license or extra insurance...

edit: other basic gear included in my "per km" calculation include trousers that repel water and still look good in a meeting (MEC sandbaggers), an assortment of jackets, and rain gear, and my packs. And socks.

 

[Albertagirl]

And of course people giving advice more often than not give it based on the size of their own wallets.

This makes sense to me, but there are generally other factors involved when a walker/camper is making gear decisions based on his or her personal situation and the planned journey on foot. My most basic questions are: "What do I want to do?" and "What do I need to do it?" I want to walk the Levante, one of the longer and more solitary camino routes in Spain. Will the former accommodations be open after the pandemic or will I need to plan for very long days, and/or camping gear? If the latter, I would choose basic survival gear, adding a bivy bag and my lightweight sleeping mattress to my pack and trying to think what I can leave out. There are some simple albergues along that route, where the local police keep the keys and open up for pilgrims. This may be a good arrangement for the coming situation, and a good resource to find out about the situation in the next town. The tricky thing about this situation is that, if the camiino routes are open at all, information about the current situation and available facilities may be challenging to find and changing by the day, as businesses serving travellers decide whether and when to open. I cannot carry everything that I might need, so I shall need trust in the kindness of the Spanish people and faith in my calling to carry me through.

 

[Robo]

Great post @davebugg .

I would hope that most people take recommendations as merely a 'guide' or an 'idea' of stuff that might be worth checking out.

As buyers, we all need to do our own due diligence!

A case in point being @David recommending the Hiptsa Clip some time back as something worth looking at. I now swear by them. I would never have known they existed without his post.

Conversely, I'm not sure we need to wait for 'expert' reviews on any item that we buy, although they are immensely useful. I have seen expert reviews on items that would certainly not suit my needs or preferences. But they were useful in helping me decide.

The message for me, is 'do your own research'.
And make sure you get advice and reviews from a number of sources.
A good source for me, is someone who has walked 1,000 kms plus using the gear.
And who gives a balanced perspective.

 

[lt56ny]

I think it is good for folks to know what possibilities exist for gear; that includes hyperlite and expensive, to lightweight and moderately priced, to the army/military surplus stuff that can be found dirt cheap.
Zeal is great!!! In the 1960's at the age of 14, my first 7 day solo backpacking trip through the North Cascades on the Cascade Crest Trail (now part of the PCT) had a total backpack weight of 57 pounds. . . food, gear, fuel, stove, cooking gear, sleeping gear etc. Today, that same load weighs around 16 pounds -and get lighter every day as food is eaten.

Your observation about the quality of equipment is something that goes hand-in-hand with how to assess the 'cost' of a piece of gear.

I encourage people, who can are able afford the expense, to never consider the price of a piece of gear or clothing as the primary factor in determining actual value. My criteria is based on Cost Per Mile (kilometer).

If I am needing gear to ONLY walk a 500 mile Camino, hyperlite clothing and gear become much more expensive to me, than if I need that same clothing and gear to last for 5,000 miles/8046 km.

Suddenly, that $125.00, two ounce/57 gm cuben fiber poncho not only contributes to an ultralight load, but it goes from costing about 0.25 cents per mile, to costing only 0.025 cents per mile. That $600.00, 19 ounce/ 539 gm tent goes from costing $1.20/mile to costing 0.12 cents/mile.

As with everything, each person's budget will determine how much one can and should invest in equipment. It does help, however, to consider that a less expensive tent that needs replacing every three years, can end up being far more expensive than a more expensive tent which will last for 6 years.

The technology changes in backpacking gear and clothing at the hyperlight side also keeps trickling down as the materials become cheaper to manufacture. Various nylon-based textiles that were so expensive that they were only used by higher end products, are now much cheaper and are seen even in Chinese goods at a Decathlon or Walmart or Big 5 Sporting. They bring the overall weight of these more budget friendly choices. Unfortunately, the overall workmanship and construction will still not be up to the toughness and durability of the high priced spreads.

BUT, as you said, it the gear is not so durable, but is pretty light, if the price is right it only needs to be 'just good enough'.

Thanks Dave great advice. You are 100% correct about gear and suggestions. That is why I still use the same REÍ pack I bought 9 years, 5000k and 5 Camino’s ago. That is why I still will still use Brooks Cascadias. I am in my 7th pair since my first Camino. My wife bought me some Hokas and they do feel great but I am sticking with my Brooks. That is why i still use the same brand of socks, still have the same 23Euro Altus poncho and cheap and rain pants, the same brand of quick dry underwear, well you get the point. I know what works for me so even though my pack looks like it has been through the war and I am far from a well dressed pilgrim among pilgrims that aren’t fashion plates, I know what is comfortable. So why roll the dice? It is a long way to Santiago from Sevilla and would hate to hate everything in
my pack by the time I get to Cáceres!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Dave, such a pleasure to read your threads and posts with additional helpful information you give to all who ask.

 

[C clearly]

With permission from the person who raised the question, I've moved some posts to a new thread, here, on recommendations for a lightweight tent. They are worth a specific discussion in the Camping section, and the thread can be found in future by searching "tent" in the title.

 

[Marbe2]

I think it is good for folks to know what possibilities exist for gear; that includes hyperlite and expensive, to lightweight and moderately priced, to the army/military surplus stuff that can be found dirt cheap.
Zeal is great!!! In the 1960's at the age of 14, my first 7 day solo backpacking trip through the North Cascades on the Cascade Crest Trail (now part of the PCT) had a total backpack weight of 57 pounds. . . food, gear, fuel, stove, cooking gear, sleeping gear etc. Today, that same load weighs around 16 pounds -and get lighter every day as food is eaten.

Your observation about the quality of equipment is something that goes hand-in-hand with how to assess the 'cost' of a piece of gear.

I encourage people, who can are able afford the expense, to never consider the price of a piece of gear or clothing as the primary factor in determining actual value. My criteria is based on Cost Per Mile (kilometer).

If I am needing gear to ONLY walk a 500 mile Camino, hyperlite clothing and gear become much more expensive to me, than if I need that same clothing and gear to last for 5,000 miles/8046 km.

Suddenly, that $125.00, two ounce/57 gm cuben fiber poncho not only contributes to an ultralight load, but it goes from costing about 0.25 cents per mile, to costing only 0.025 cents per mile. That $600.00, 19 ounce/ 539 gm tent goes from costing $1.20/mile to costing 0.12 cents/mile.

As with everything, each person's budget will determine how much one can and should invest in equipment. It does help, however, to consider that a less expensive tent that needs replacing every three years, can end up being far more expensive than a more expensive tent which will last for 6 years.

The technology changes in backpacking gear and clothing at the hyperlight side also keeps trickling down as the materials become cheaper to manufacture. Various nylon-based textiles that were so expensive that they were only used by higher end products, are now much cheaper and are seen even in Chinese goods at a Decathlon or Walmart or Big 5 Sporting. They bring the overall weight of these more budget friendly choices. Unfortunately, the overall workmanship and construction will still not be up to the toughness and durability of the high priced spreads.

BUT, as you said, it the gear is not so durable, but is pretty light, if the price is right it only needs to be 'just good enough'.

I agree completely with the cost per mile consideration when purchasing equipment! So I will puchase, for example, an inexpensive sleeping bag from Wallmart...as I rarely camp outdoors these days, but, in contrast, walk thousands of Kms iin Padagonia ultralite baselayer LS shirts and thus will splurge on quality clothing.

My experience with retail store personnel in terms of expertise in outdoor gear and clothing varies in places like Campmor, REI, LLBean, and Cabalas... especially when purchasing trail runners. In addition, their limited stock of brands and the time and distance to get to them are also considerations. Of course, I much prefer to go to a dealer to try on hiking shoes, but I find myself, reading more, and often purchasing shoes on-line with the ability to return them after a period of time if the fit doesn’t work for me.

I read the reviews you post on-line with great interest, Dave, and thank you for sharing your wisdom and expertise with us.

 

[Bill905]

The message for me, is 'do your own research'.
And make sure you get advice and reviews from a number of sources.
A good source for me, is someone who has walked 1,000 kms plus using the gear.
And who gives a balanced perspective.

Thanks for the interesting suggestions and recommendations. I kind of follow a corollary of what @Robo mentions, about someone having used the equipment and giving a balanced perspective. The equipment I used was pretty good, not perfect, but it did see me through the CF a couple of years ago, and quite nicely. But that is not to say that I did not stop asking other pilgrims about their packs, their footwear, their clothing choices, and their equipment in general. And I kept my eyes open, observing how others used their equipment, what were they wearing, etc. I did a lot of that and therefore I collected what I feel was good balanced opinions from real-world real-time users, over several weeks. Everyone I asked was very happy to have been asked. Thanks to what I saw and heard, I will be even better prepared for the next one ... as soon as this Covid thing is behind us. I have already invested in items based on this in-person research and I am looking forward to returning in the most optimistic and positive way.

 

[Robo]

Thanks for the interesting suggestions and recommendations. I kind of follow a corollary of what @Robo mentions, about someone having used the equipment and giving a balanced perspective. The equipment I used was pretty good, not perfect, but it did see me through the CF a couple of years ago, and quite nicely. But that is not to say that I did not stop asking other pilgrims about their packs, their footwear, their clothing choices, and their equipment in general. And I kept my eyes open, observing how others used their equipment, what were they wearing, etc. I did a lot of that and therefore I collected what I feel was good balanced opinions from real-world real-time users, over several weeks. Everyone I asked was very happy to have been asked. Thanks to what I saw and heard, I will be even better prepared for the next one ... as soon as this Covid thing is behind us. I have already invested in items based on this in-person research and I am looking forward to returning in the most optimistic and positive way.

And based on experience, research and reading reviews by others, our preferences can change.

I loved water bladders, but then found other options worked better for me.
I loved my lightweight Salomon boots, but now recognise I need something lighter.

 

[trecile]

I loved my lightweight Salomon boots, but now recognise I need something lighter.

Lighter you, lighter shoes.

 

[Robo]

Lighter you, lighter shoes.

No it's not that.
I always loved my boots. They feel like bedroom slippers.

But because I have bad knees. Arthritis, Bursitis, torn meniscus........

I was advised by a couple of physios in Spain to get lighter footwear.
Less weight 'swinging' under my knees.

 

[like a rhino]

Foreword Note: I know this is a wordy post. For those who want to avoid the entire read, and get right to the conclusion, you can skip down to where you see +++

Many of you know that a large part of my life has been as a so-called 'expert' who is hired by backpacking gear and clothing and shoe manufacturers to evaluate their products for quality control, performance, and usability. My skill set includes one highly important ability that is essential for proper evaluation: To be able to set aside subjective concerns in order to focus on objective measurements and observations. Objective evaluation involves a lot of functional comparisons, including during actual use in similar conditions and circumstances.

Unless something that I am testing is brutally painful and debilitating, or dangerous, I can ignore what is less than ideal or slightly uncomfortable, and focus on the quality of the gear or clothing/shoe itself.

Example: I have tested shoes that I have absolutely hated wearing. I did not like how they 'felt' on my feet. At all. However, my role and focus during testing are Quality Control issues: construction, longevity, what is claimed for motion control, cushioning materials durability, stability, and traction issues, etc.

Of course I would make a note of WHY I did not like the feel of the shoe in my reports, but I avoided coloring my objective observations because of my dislike of those shoes.

That is why manufacturers will hire quite a few people to do the same testing, and to do the same testing throughout the period of time that a piece of gear or clothing is on the inventory for manufacture. They know that every individual tester 'feels' and 'interacts' with a product differently, just as their customers will. The manufacturer is seeking out common issues and problems with use, to account for the performance 'outliers', and to look for the weakness that occur during all spectrum's of use regardless of how the product gets used, or how it feels and fits.

The bottom line point: Many people will buy an item based solely on other people's subjective recommendations, rather than taking time to try out gear for fit and feel and usability based on their unique needs and wants. Online ordering has made this a quite common way for choosing what to purchase; Amazon-style ratings and reviews take the place of going into a store to touch, examine, and interact with a product.

Relying solely on opinions and ratings to decide on which light bulb or a crockpot to buy is workable. These things either work and function as intended, or not. I can read opinions and reviews for a stand mixer, sort out those opinions to only those who mix heavy bread doughs, and get a good idea of what real world performance will be like.

The same process is not so easy when needing to purchase trail runners, a new mattress for the bed, or a backpack for distance walking. There are too many individual considerations involved, all of which can lead to a massive failure for those who need a specific comfort level in a mattress, or a backpacks, or shoes, and clothing.

What feels good and performs well for one person, might be ‘Misery on A Stick’ for someone else.

Sleep systems are a good, overall example. These are sleeping bags, sleeping quilts, sleeping bag liners, air mattresses, or sleeping pads.

A well-intentioned individual makes a Forum post stating that a 'liner bag' is all that is needed for sleeping while on a Camino. Now, we have no knowledge of that individual's baseline temperature comfort level. Does that individual feel chilled inside an alburgue dorm room when the ambient temperature is at 80f (27c), or is s/he perfectly comfortable while standing outside, naked and soaked with water at 37f (3c)?.

When we then translate this issue to the process of shopping for a piece of sleeping gear, like a sleeping bag or a sleeping quilt, the largest problem for a consumer trying to figure out what to purchase, are a manufacturers stated Temperature Rating Ranges.

Because there is a huge variation of individual comfort while sleeping, there is no reliable baseline temperature that covers everyone. That is why sleeping bag and quilt manufacturers use a temperature 'range' to describe the parameters of its product to consumers. But that's not the problem in and of itself. The problem is HOW a manufacturer arrives at that comfort range. Some manufacturers can be a bit sneaky with this rating.

When I have been contacted by companies to test a bag or quilt or air mattress, I am asked various questions that boil down to this: "are you a cold or a hot sleeper'? That is an understandable question. The sneaky part comes in when they know that I am a hot sleeper and they are ONLY selecting hot sleepers. They want us hot sleepers (who would be comfortable with a wet sheet at 37f/3c ) to give 'thumbs up' to their desire to state a low temperature rating of, say, 32f/0c, for a sleeping bag that many might find uncomfortable at 45f (7c).

Yeah, it happens. . a lot more than I would have expected. If I find out that this is what is happening, I will quit. Fortunately, there are a lot of sleeping gear manufacturers who will bend over backwards to give as accurate a rating as is humanly reasonable.

+++ So what should be a primary consideration when a Forum member takes the time to post that "this pack, or "that shoe" or "that pant" is what they use and that they would recommend it to others?

Simple. Folks can consider personal recommendations not as recommendations to purchase a specific bit of gear or clothing. Instead, treat it as an item to add to your list of products to consider for a tryout to see how each might work for your needs. I do that all the time.

I would also highly recommend that shop local, especially now with the need to support local businesses during the COVID-19 Economic Pandemic. If the shop does not have exactly what you want, then see if they are willing to order it in for you to try out, even if it costs a bit more money than from an AmazonDecathalonREI. Do not take something that is less than suitable for your needs, but do make an effort to give local stores a first crack at earning your business. Just make sure you understand their returns policy if you try something and it doesn't work out.

I am asked a lot about what I would recommend for gear and clothing and shoes. I don't mind folks asking one bit. People who are novices are feeling around and trying to find a place to start.

I will share what I know from experience, or the experience of others who I know and trust, as to what a well-constructed and designed piece of gear or shoes or ... whatever . . might be that seems to fit what the person is looking for. My suggestions are for auditioning only to try it for fit and feel and personal usability; something to add to the list of items to consider before making a decision to purchase.

End Note, so feel free to stop reading : My current status as a Quality Control tester.

"Sometimes you're the Louisville Slugger, baby, sometimes you're the ball. Sometimes it all comes together, sometimes you're going to lose it all" - - Dire Straits

"The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want" - - David, the King who had once been a shepherd.

Since becoming ill many months ago, and now beginning recovery in both body and spirit, I have had to temporarily decline most contracts to do quality control testing which would involve the real life testing of gear and clothing. What is happening, though, are that many companies, especially the bleeding-edge makers of gear and clothing in the cottage manufacturing sector, are still asking me to evaluate products. They ask that I stick to what is able to be observed and detailed aside from actively doing real world, hardcore, wear and use testing on the trail.

So while I am currently not out and about using stuff while on training hikes in the Cascades and on backpacking trips, I am providing feedback by loading up backpacks and checking their usability for packing stuff and accessing stuff, assessing where I can see issues of potential weakness, premature wear and stress, and for comfort and fit during my daily walks. I can wear trail runners when walking around the house and outside, and also giving various insulating layers and rain gear a go.

This is actually pretty anemic stuff compared to what I am normally hired to do, and in my heart I know part of this is because of the long history and relationships I have developed with these companies. More than a few of the owners and managers kept in close touch while I was dealing with AML treatments. Some even going so far as to offer jobs in their QA departments if I ever choose to move and live within commuting distance to their physical locations.

I know that they are being kind and have other options for gear testers, and that my involvement is superficial compared to doing actual real world testing for quality control issues. They will rely on other testers for those things.

This has never been a 'full-time job" for me, it has always been fitted in with my regular professional money making jobs in other fields. But it is something that has never felt like work, and has even, at times, made me feel a tad guilty for being paid.

I have no clue whether or not I will ever be able to provide a 'normal' level of testing, but for now I am grateful that it hasn't just disappeared altogether and I still get to touch and play with terrific gear and stuff.

Hi Dave great post, hope your health is improved. I, as a newbie considered footwear as the essential first buy. I’m really happy with my Altra lone peaks and am considering trekking sandals as an addition for hiking and evening, any thoughts on brands? I also want to start carrying my pack including 15-20 kilograms of sand to train. I have been considering the 25-40l flex capacitor by Sierra Designs, any comments? It does appear in uk that osprey is king but I like the idea of a expanding pack for bringing home the pressies when finished and to put in clothes/toiletries purchased post walk for a weeks holiday whilst in the sun. Thanks Steve ps mid April/ May 2023 start

 

[trecile]

I also want to start carrying my pack including 15-20 kilograms of sand to train

Why so much weight?!

 

[davebugg]

The Flex Capacitor is a good backpack from a good company. The internal frame concept is kinda unique but clever and very efficient at transferring weight to the hipbelt. The shoulder harness and hipbelt systems are competent and comfortable.

You will not have a choice as to the capacity of the Flex Capacitor. The carrying capacity is directly linked to the size you need, which will be based on the length of your spinal measurement (torso). So IF your spinal length is 16 to 19", you will need the S/M size which is the 25 to 40L capacity. However, if your torso measurement (spine) is 18" and above, then the M/L is the size you need which is the 40 - 60 L capacity. In reality there is only an ounce or two of difference between the two sizes.

The nifty thing (like with some other manufacturers) is that it does not matter which size of the backpack you need, you can decide on the size of the hip belt separately because it is a detachable system. Even if you purchase the backpack with a small hipbelt, if your waist grows you can buy a larger hip belt size and swap out the small one. Or vice-versa.

For those who think that shoulder strap pouches are kewl for holding water bottles or assorted knick-knacks in, they will appreciate that feature. Me? I cut them off and figuratively buried them with a stake driven through their hearts. Did I mention that I hate dangly, pouchy stuff on shoulder harnesses? YMMV I will attach a GoPro to a strap with a lightweight, quick disconnect bracket, if I want to do a continuous POV recording of a hike, but I do so under protest because other mounting options are even more obnoxious to me.

This is a backpack which needs to have a good, no-hassle store return policy. Like a good number of backpacks, this one, when it is properly fitted and is dialed-in is very comfortable to wear for most folks. But in my mind, it can take a few days of wearing it, loaded, around the house to make sure that the initial 'good' impression in the store doesn't give way to teensy, niggling irritations that begin to come to the forefront.

I say this NOT because I would expect those niggly things to show up, but because every person's body adjusts to a specific backpack differently, and initial impressions may change a bit as your body begins to deal with having to carry it for moderate periods of time. it's like moving into a new house or apartment and loving the newness of your new home. . . but after a while that dripping faucet, or squeaking flooring, or sticking closet door that was not noticed earlier, suddenly eats at your irritation quotient.

Whenever I have tested a backpack, I look for three things above all else:

• Is it put together well
• Do I find its features easy to engage, and are they usable to me
• When I wear it over a few hours of walking/hiking, does it continually demand my attention, or can I ignore it.

The last point almost seems contradictory. No backpack with a load is going to feel like you are not carrying extra weight on your back. But does the backpack itself sorta fade into the background while walking, or is it nagging at you the whole way?

For most people, the Flex Capacitor will shut the heck up during a hike. You will be walking with it and you mind is engaged in the environment around you, and you'll realize that the backpack is there, but not 'there' there.

 

[like a rhino]

Why so much weight?!

I was thinking re the roman gladius where the wooden training swords were twice as heavy so when weirding in battle it was easier. My local area is quite flat so I could adjust down in Peak District.

 

[like a rhino]

The Flex Capacitor is a good backpack from a good company. The internal frame concept is kinda unique but clever and very efficient at transferring weight to the hipbelt. The shoulder harness and hipbelt systems are competent and comfortable.

You will not have a choice as to the capacity of the Flex Capacitor. The carrying capacity is directly linked to the size you need, which will be based on the length of your spinal measurement (torso). So IF your spinal length is 16 to 19", you will need the S/M size which is the 25 to 40L capacity. However, if your torso measurement (spine) is 18" and above, then the M/L is the size you need which is the 40 - 60 L capacity. In reality there is only an ounce or two of difference between the two sizes.

The nifty thing (like with some other manufacturers) is that it does not matter which size of the backpack you need, you can decide on the size of the hip belt separately because it is a detachable system. Even if you purchase the backpack with a small hipbelt, if your waist grows you can buy a larger hip belt size and swap out the small one. Or vice-versa.

For those who think that shoulder strap pouches are kewl for holding water bottles or assorted knick-knacks in, they will appreciate that feature. Me? I cut them off and figuratively buried them with a stake driven through their hearts. Did I mention that I hate dangly, pouchy stuff on shoulder harnesses? YMMV I will attach a GoPro to a strap with a lightweight, quick disconnect bracket, if I want to do a continuous POV recording of a hike, but I do so under protest because other mounting options are even more obnoxious to me.

This is a backpack which needs to have a good, no-hassle store return policy. Like a good number of backpacks, this one, when it is properly fitted and is dialed-in is very comfortable to wear for most folks. But in my mind, it can take a few days of wearing it, loaded, around the house to make sure that the initial 'good' impression in the store doesn't give way to teensy, niggling irritations that begin to come to the forefront.

I say this NOT because I would expect those niggly things to show up, but because every person's body adjusts to a specific backpack differently, and initial impressions may change a bit as your body begins to deal with having to carry it for moderate periods of time. it's like moving into a new house or apartment and loving the newness of your new home. . . but after a while that dripping faucet, or squeaking flooring, or sticking closet door that was not noticed earlier, suddenly eats at your irritation quotient.

Whenever I have tested a backpack, I look for three things above all else:

• Is it put together well
• Do I find its features easy to engage, and are they usable to me
• When I wear it over a few hours of walking/hiking, does it continually demand my attention, or can I ignore it.

The last point almost seems contradictory. No backpack with a load is going to feel like you are not carrying extra weight on your back. But does the backpack itself sorta fade into the background while walking, or is it nagging at you the whole way?

For most people, the Flex Capacitor will shut the heck up during a hike. You will be walking with it and you mind is engaged in the environment around you, and you'll realize that the backpack is there, but not 'there' there.

Amazing and concise review of the pack thank you. I’m a bit of a pocket guy (why aren’t you?) and considered the Mountainsmith Zerk 40 Phantom as I already own the Scream 55 for wild camping & through hikes, I considered 40l is to big. Thanks again Buen Camino Steve

 

[davebugg]

I was thinking re the roman gladius where the wooden training swords were twice as heavy so when weirding in battle it was easier. My local area is quite flat so I could adjust down in Peak District.

There are two issues regarding fitness when walking uphill for extended periods: Cardio and Strength.

Hiking uphill requires the lifting of your body's weight with each step, in addition to propelling it forward. Not all exercise for cardio (cardiovascular) fitness will develop the needed muscle strength, but most exercise for muscle strength will contribute to cardio fitness.

Swimming and bicycling and flat walking engage different muscle groups in different ways. They will raise heart rates that are necessary to achieve cardio fitness levels. They do little to nothing to develop the large leg muscles in lifting weight vertically, however.

Partial squats and leg presses can help, but they are done in short, repetitions which do not sustain peak heart rate levels over a prolonged length of time in order to more fully develop cardio levels.

My suggestion in lieu of having hills to walk, is to use a treadmill which can go from 0 to 15% incline in addition to flat walking. In this way, you can reduce training injury risks by using the actual load weights you will carry on Camino.

The flat walking will strengthen the muscles of the foot and the ankle allowing them to develop long distance walking fitness. Using the treadmill, or a stair stepper, will strengthen the large muscles which will do the lifting.

 

[C clearly]

I also want to start carrying my pack including 15-20 kilograms of sand to train.

I was thinking re the roman gladius where the wooden training swords were twice as heavy so when weirding in battle it was easier. My local area is quite flat so I could adjust down in Peak District.

I see that @davebugg has responded with some knowledgeable suggestions, while I was composing this reply. (I'm glad to know that we have learned a lot since gladiator times!) Here are my thoughts...

I am not sure if this approach is a good idea or not. I think there might be other priorities in getting your body ready for a Camino.

15-20 kg is not twice what you will need on the Camino. It is probably 3 times. Be sure that you do not injure yourself before you start your Camino. Perhaps your body and your backpack can successfully train for that weight, but maybe not.

For my Caminos (starting at age 64) I have not trained with a loaded pack, except for a couple of days to check everything out. Most of my training is on fairly level terrain. On the Camino, with my well-fitted pack and about 6 kg of weight (including water), my backpack is not a problem. But I'm pretty sure that if I increased that weight, it would be.

 

[davebugg]

Amazing and concise review of the pack thank you. I’m a bit of a pocket guy (why aren’t you?)

To be sure, I never said I didn't like pockets. . . only pockets on shoulder straps I dislike stuff lumped up near my chin. I also do not like the potential swaying movement of shoulder strap pockets, plus they can get in the way of quickly accessing the adjustment to the shoulder straps without a bit of fumbling. As I said, that's just me and lots of other folks do like having shoulder strap pockets.

Hipbelt pockets I love. . none better than the one's on the Gossamer Gear hipbelt pockets on their Mariposa and Gorilla backpacks, where they are huge and zip and unzip without needing both hands. I require a large and expandable exterior pocket at the back of the pack, and if I have my druthers, I prefer One, long, large pocket on one side of the pack, with two smaller pockets on the other side.

I also like having a decent size zippered pocket on top of the backpack. Of course the location of such a 'top pocket' depends on whether the top closure is a true 'brain' (large flap closure that straps down to cover the opening), a roll down top that buckles shut, a zippered closure, or no top access at all (vertical zipper down the length of the main bag).

 

[like a rhino]

I see that @davebugg has responded with some knowledgeable suggestions, while I was composing this reply. (I'm glad to know that we have learned a lot since gladiator times!) Here are my thoughts...

I am not sure if this approach is a good idea or not. I think there might be other priorities in getting your body ready for a Camino.

15-20 kg is not twice what you will need on the Camino. It is probably 3 times. Be sure that you do not injure yourself before you start your Camino. Perhaps your body and your backpack can successfully train for that weight, but maybe not.

For my Caminos (starting at age 64) I have not trained with a loaded pack, except for a couple of days to check everything out. Most of my training is on fairly level terrain. On the Camino, with my well-fitted pack and about 6 kg of weight (including water), my backpack is not a problem. But I'm pretty sure that if I increased that weight, it would be.

Thanks for the advice, I will re-assess my thoughts on this matter. I believed, incorrectly it appears, that I could boost my ability on the Camino by this technique which is similar to the weight vests/weight straps used. Thanks I appreciate your feedback. Buen Camino Steve

 

[like a rhino]

To be sure, I never said I didn't like pockets. . . only pockets on shoulder straps I dislike stuff lumped up near my chin. I also do not like the potential swaying movement of shoulder strap pockets, plus they can get in the way of quickly accessing the adjustment to the shoulder straps without a bit of fumbling. As I said, that's just me and lots of other folks do like having shoulder strap pockets.

Hipbelt pockets I love. . none better than the one's on the Gossamer Gear hipbelt pockets on their Mariposa and Gorilla backpacks, where they are huge and zip and unzip without needing both hands. I require a large and expandable exterior pocket at the back of the pack, and if I have my druthers, I prefer One, long, large pocket on one side of the pack, with two smaller pockets on the other side.

I also like having a decent size zippered pocket on top of the backpack. Of course the location of such a 'top pocket' depends on whether the top closure is a true 'brain' (large flap closure that straps down to cover the opening), a roll down top that buckles shut, a zippered closure, or no top access at all (vertical zipper down the length of the main bag).

I bought a OMM strap pouch into which I fitted a collapsible water bottle with extended mouthpiece. It started fine but as it emptied it collapsed and was dumped in pack. I would like an aquaclip but as far as I know they are not available in uk. Have you tried a chest pod?

 

[like a rhino]

There are two issues regarding fitness when walking uphill for extended periods: Cardio and Strength.

Hiking uphill requires the lifting of your body's weight with each step, in addition to propelling it forward. Not all exercise for cardio (cardiovascular) fitness will develop the needed muscle strength, but most exercise for muscle strength will contribute to cardio fitness.

Swimming and bicycling and flat walking engage different muscle groups in different ways. They will raise heart rates that are necessary to achieve cardio fitness levels. They do little to nothing to develop the large leg muscles in lifting weight vertically, however.

Partial squats and leg presses can help, but they are done in short, repetitions which do not sustain peak heart rate levels over a prolonged length of time in order to more fully develop cardio levels.

My suggestion in lieu of having hills to walk, is to use a treadmill which can go from 0 to 15% incline in addition to flat walking. In this way, you can reduce training injury risks by using the actual load weights you will carry on Camino.

The flat walking will strengthen the muscles of the foot and the ankle allowing them to develop long distance walking fitness. Using the treadmill, or a stair stepper, will strengthen the large muscles which will do the lifting.

Thanks for the advice, the incline facility on a treadmill is a great idea. Thanks Buen Camino Steve

 

[davebugg]

I bought a OMM strap pouch into which I fitted a collapsible water bottle with extended mouthpiece. It started fine but as it emptied it collapsed and was dumped in pack. I would like an aquaclip but as far as I know they are not available in uk. Have you tried a chest pod?

It sounds like it works well for you. A lot of folks like that type of hydration system in shoulder strap pouches, too. For myself, I much prefer an internal water reservoir/bladder. This is a link to a post I wrote covering the reasons why.

I used a chest pod in the military, and I detested them. I tried a variation of one years back on a multi-week hike, and ended up trashing it in a bin at a resupply point. They tend to screw up how the shoulder harness adjustments fit for me. Plus, it is an annoyance that I can't just quickly drop my backpack.

 

[davebugg]

Thanks for the advice, the incline facility on a treadmill is a great idea. Thanks Buen Camino Steve

Glad if I could help. I am excited to hear how your planning and preparations go. Here is a suggestion which may be helpful as you are waiting for the time of departure for your pilgrimage:

Write down in large letters the reasons why you want to go on Camino. Place that piece of paper where you can see it every day. If anxieties and fears threaten to overwhelm you as you plan, or if the tedium of waiting to depart begins to grate at you, you can take some deep breaths, read what you have written, and focus on those reasons until the negative stuff fades.

 

[like a rhino]

Glad if I could help. I am excited to hear how your planning and preparations go. Here is a suggestion which may be helpful as you are waiting for the time of departure for your pilgrimage:

Write down in large letters the reasons why you want to go on Camino. Place that piece of paper where you can see it every day. If anxieties and fears threaten to overwhelm you as you plan, or if the tedium of waiting to depart begins to grate at you, you can take some deep breaths, read what you have written, and focus on those reasons until the negative stuff fades.

Great idea, my son says he can make the message a screensaver so it’s constantly in view.