Compostela for baby conceived on Camino?

[cassieryle]

Well, after walking a month from Irún on the Camino Norte, we found out a few days outside of Santiago that I am pregnant, and the lil one was definitely conceived on the Camino! Was wondering how I could be getting more and more tired... it’s exciting and gives a whole new meaning to our experience... wondering if anyone had ever heard of an unborn baby earning their compostela? Will get there in three days and hoping to get one.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Wow, congratulations!
I´m not an expert, but I think the baby has to walk his-her own camino to get a Compostela. Riding along with Mum doesn´t count!

 

[Jeff Crawley]

First of all congratulations and secondly commendations on having walked right across Spain had still having the energy to have sex.

As Rebekah said did s/he do the last 100km on their own two feet and have a credential? You might get a soft hearted clerk in the Pilgrim Office - look out for Tom (t2andreo).

In the meantime can we have some fun suggesting a name?

Stella if a girl and Jack/Jacques/Iago if a boy.

Not sure what to suggest if it's twins, Fizz and Terry?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

If it´s a girl, I can tell you I´ve met three different Spanish women named ¨Camino.¨ And if it´s a boy, any number of ¨Santiagos!¨

 

[Bradypus]

Congratulations! I think you might be breaking new ground with your question Here's what the Pilgrim Office website says about children and Compostelas - but they don't seem to have your situation in mind quite yet! "Children and pilgrimage. Children who make the pilgrimage with their parents or in groups, and have received the sacrament of Communion, or have the ability to understand the meaning of the spiritual or religious nature of the Way, can receive the “Compostela”. If they are not mature enough due to their young age, they are given a special certificate with their names. In the case of infants or very young children, their names are included on the parent or accompanying adult’s “Compostela”. If you are in any doubt, please contact us at the Pilgrim’s Reception Office so we can look at each individual case. " Sounds like you have an interesting "individual case" to test them with

 

[wisepilgrim]

Wow, congratulations!
I´m not an expert, but I think the baby has to walk his-her own camino to get a Compostela. Riding along with Mum doesn´t count!

According to the Camino Rulebook that falls under the Apoyo Clause and is most certainly disqualified.

Congratulations!

 

[Theresa Brandon]

Would you like me to hand letter an original and unique miniature compostela for baby-to-be?

 

[JabbaPapa]

Well, after walking a month from Irún on the Camino Norte, we found out a few days outside of Santiago that I am pregnant, and the lil one was definitely conceived on the Camino! Was wondering how I could be getting more and more tired... it’s exciting and gives a whole new meaning to our experience... wondering if anyone had ever heard of an unborn baby earning their compostela? Will get there in three days and hoping to get one.

Wow !! Congratulations !!

For your question, I'd say probably not, though the more important Graces of the Pilgrimage will surely be earned by your baby.

But as a Church certificate, the Compostela theoretically has as its minimum requirement to be baptised (although this rule is infrequently imposed LOL), but this does kind of require to have been born as even the barest minimum prerequisite ...

As an exception to Bradypus' detail points, a baby born and Baptised on the Camino, or a child Baptised, would very likely qualify OTOH, assuming birth beyond the 100K limit out from Compostela. Baptism within the Pilgrimage itself should certainly be enough in lieu of Confirmation or Age of Discernment for the discrete purposes of the Compostela.

 

[VNwalking]

I have no idea, but adding to the communal congratulations!

 

[Rich1]

Congratulations - obviously not walked hard enough to tire yourselves out

 

[oursonpolaire]

I know of two other babies conceived on the Camino. A Danish journalist of my acquaintance determined that she would name the child after the likely spot of conception, but did not go for my perhaps-not-serious suggestion of Alberguina. She settled on Estella but then realized (I'm not sure of the details of her calculations and did not ask!) that it was likely in Puente la Reina. As Puenta would not have worked as a name, she settled on Estephania, who was one of the two queens responsible for the bridge, so there is a 12-year-old Dane by that name zooming around Jutland on her bicycle and apparently quite good at basketball.

 

[spagirl]

Congratulations!!!
What a wonderful experience. Such a great story to tell the little blessing when they arrive.
I can imagine the incredible journey you might make in the future with your little one by returning to the Camino. What a right of passage!
Good luck, rest, take care and enjoy this special gift!
Cheers!

 

[Anamya]

Congratulations, that's awesome!
I was wondering what happened because the blog posts stopped for a while... Now we know!

As said above, talk to the people in the Oficina, they may not issue a Compostela, but maybe some certificate? A blessing of some sorts?

Not sure what to suggest if it's twins, Fizz and Terry?

Maybe Napoleón and Valcarlos?

 

[Aurigny]

That's wonderful. God bless you, your husband, and your little one.

One day, no doubt, the three of you will walk the Camino again. And as marvellous as it is right now, when that happens—take it from somebody who knows—it will be even better.

 

[nycwalking]

Congratulations!

You surely had a buen camino.

 

[CaminoJew]

Wonderful news! Best wishes and prayers for the baby and parents.
Had a similar experience on a trek in Nepal many years ago.
As for getting the Camino Credential- I am sure your child will prefer singing that line of Frank Sinatra "I did it MY way"
God bless,
david

 

[LGLG]

Oh poor baby! He or she will be condemned to walk Caminos for its whole life! Plenty of Compostellas to come.

 

[t2andreo]

Yes, I am here in Santiago working at the Pilgrim Office, usually from 10:00 to 3:00 most every day. Look for my bright chartreuse ball cap.

I helped a German family of five on Tuesday who walked from SJPdP. They had a 6 year-old, a 4 year-old, and a 7-month old. The 6-year old walked the whole way. You should have seen his leg muscles!

Anyway, it was explained to them that the policy is that children under 10 do not receive Compostelas. They accepted that, but received a Distance Certificate naming the “Family Name-Name” as accomplishing the Camino Frances. I then took a nice family photo to accompany the certificate, which is attractive and very suitable for framing.

I hesitate to discuss ‘clever’ ways to add your unborn child to your Compostela. But, find me and I will see what, if anything I can finagle with staff. No promises though.

Where there is a will there is a way...even in Spain...

Hope this helps.

 

[Former member 81810]

If a boy should one of his names be James? Whatever the gender, presumably they will be brought up to enjoy walking!

 

[cassieryle]

Yes, I am here in Santiago working at the Pilgrim Office, usually from 10:00 to 3:00 most every day. Look for my bright chartreuse ball cap.

I helped a German family of five on Tuesday who walked from SJPdP. They had a 6 year-old, a 4 year-old, and a 7-month old. The 6-year old walked the whole way. You should have seen his leg muscles!

Anyway, it was explained to them that the policy is that children under 10 do not receive Compostelas. They accepted that, but received a Distance Certificate naming the “Family Name-Name” as accomplishing the Camino Frances. I then took a nice family photo to accompany the certificate, which is attractive and very suitable for framing.

I hesitate to discuss ‘clever’ ways to add your unborn child to your Compostela. But, find me and I will see what, if anything I can finagle with staff. No promises though.

Where there is a will there is a way...even in Spain...

Hope this helps.

Thank you, cap guy! We will see you the morning of the 22nd bright and early

 

[cassieryle]

Love all these replies! SO funny! We will let you all know how it works out in the pilgrims office... will go on the 22nd. Yes, surprisingly by the second week of walking I suppose we had gotten fit enough to care about stuff that can result in babies! Anyway, it was a fluke and totally a surprise, but we are thrilled. I’m pretty sure we conceived in Santillana Del Mar (we were on the Norte). For names we are thinking of the gallego version of James... which is Tiago. And for girl Camino. A Mexican gentleman explained on the trail the other day that Camino is a common name for girls in Spanish! By the way, my husbands name is James, so in a way he will be named after his dad. And yes, we totally flaked out on our blog for a few days, but more is getting posted now finally. We are going to delay the last week being posted though until we announce to all friends and family about the pregnancy... we definitely have a good ending to our story now!! Here’s the link Camino Blog

 

[Thornley]

Wow, congratulations!
I´m not an expert, but I think the baby has to walk his-her own camino to get a Compostela. Riding along with Mum doesn´t count!

Reb , I am definitely not an expert but if Santillana del Mar is only 2 -3 weeks prior to entering SDC and the OP is not here yet , still 3 days away ?
I'm too old for these figures , too many years ago.

 

[VNwalking]

the policy is that children under 10 do not receive Compostelas

I'm not questioning this, @t2andreo , but am curious - do you know why this is?

 

[Thornley]

I'm not questioning this, @t2andreo , but am curious - do you know why this is?

I would think because a kid that age has NO idea of the significance of the camno
Yes , it has become a tourist , commercial route , especially the last 100 km , but why was the Compostela orifinally issued?

 

[Bradypus]

I'm not questioning this, @t2andreo , but am curious - do you know why this is?

The pilgrim office statement I quoted above (post #5) seems to suggest that it is to do with the age at which a child can reasonably be expected to understand the religious and spiritual significance of pilgrimage. For those not yet mature enough to do so there are alternative ways of marking their Camino journey.

 

[Thornley]

Yes, I am here in Santiago working at the Pilgrim Office, usually from 10:00 to 3:00 most every day. Look for my bright chartreuse ball cap.

I helped a German family of five on Tuesday who walked from SJPdP. They had a 6 year-old, a 4 year-old, and a 7-month old. The 6-year old walked the whole way. You should have seen his leg muscles!

Anyway, it was explained to them that the policy is that children under 10 do not receive Compostelas. They accepted that, but received a Distance Certificate naming the “Family Name-Name” as accomplishing the Camino Frances. I then took a nice family photo to accompany the certificate, which is attractive and very suitable for framing.

I hesitate to discuss ‘clever’ ways to add your unborn child to your Compostela. But, find me and I will see what, if anything I can finagle with staff. No promises though.

Where there is a will there is a way...even in Spain...

Hope this helps.

I think you are going where you shouldn't

 

[VNwalking]

I would think because a kid that age has NO idea of the significanc of the camno

it is to do with the age at which a child can reasonably be expected to understand the religious and spiritual significance of pilgrimage.

Ah, I get it, thank you both.
There are probably kids out there who are spiritually precocious and who would understand. So I hope there is a little leeway to give someone a compostela if it is clear after questioning that they do 'get it.'

 

[JabbaPapa]

Ah, I get it, thank you both.
There are probably kids out there who are spiritually precocious and who would understand. So I hope there is a little leeway to give someone a compostela if it is clear after questioning that they do 'get it.'

Exceptions in these matters require, basically, that the child be the initiator of the request, not the parents or godparents.

 

[t2andreo]

I think you are going where you shouldn't

Don’t worry, I have it sorted. Nothing will run afoul of official church policy.

I have a win-win solution thought out. In past years I have handled similar accommodations. If the pilgrim walks away happy, and no new precedent is set, then it is a good day. Anything done for this couple could be replicated with no scandal occurring.

After all, the organization I Volunteer for is Acogida Crisitiana en el Camino (ACC). My role is to welcome all pilgrims in a Christian spirit.

I do try very hard to send the folks I encounter away with a smile, a positive outlook, and a good experience to cap their Camino. Over the years I have become better at it.

Thanks for your concern. I have it covered.

Hope this helps.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I have a win-win solution thought out.

I have received a couple of compostelas for walking "in dedication to." I was always asked if the person was incapable of walking or deceased. I was never asked if the person had ever been alive. My four year old grandson got a completion certificate. Getting a compostela was never a consideration. He is too young to have: devotedly visited this most sacred temple with Christian sentiment (pietatis causa).

From the Pilgrim Office website:
Children and pilgrimage. Children who make the pilgrimage with their parents or in groups, and have received the sacrament of Communion, or have the ability to understand the meaning of the spiritual or religious nature of the Way, can receive the “Compostela”. If they are not mature enough due to their young age, they are given a special certificate with their names. In the case of infants or very young children, their names are included on the parent or accompanying adult’s “Compostela”. If you are in any doubt, please contact us at the Pilgrim’s Reception Office so we can look at each individual case.

The unique concept here is in the category of a compostela for a dog. It has conversational value, but is not in the realm of the purpose of the compostela. I would be interested in the proof required by the Office since there won't be a Credencial.

Can you share your win-win solution?

 

[Anamya]

Anyway, it was a fluke and totally a surprise, but we are thrilled. I’m pretty sure we conceived in Santillana Del Mar (we were on the Norte). For names we are thinking of the gallego version of James... which is Tiago. And for girl Camino. A Mexican gentleman explained on the trail the other day that Camino is a common name for girls in Spanish! By the way, my husbands name is James, so in a way he will be named after his dad.

Ooohhh, if it was in Santillana del Mar, may I suggest Marina as a name? Related to the ocean ('mar'), which was by your side the entire journey.

Whatever you decide, it will be suuuper adorable!

 

[t2andreo]

I'm not questioning this, @t2andreo , but am curious - do you know why this is?

It has to do with the Church’s assessment of when a child reaches “the age of reason.” Catholic dogma holds that children who have received catechesis training to prepare them to receive their First Holy Communion have attained the “age of reason.” They are taught and understand right from wrong, sin and grace, personal responsibility, and so forth.

This typically occurs around age 9 or 10, but this is also highly dependent on the local Bishop’s policies.

If I can recall correctly, I received my First Communion at 7 or 8. But, this was in the early 1960’s, when things were generally more conservative and dogma was force-fed at early ages.

So, the Pilgrim Office, part of the Cathedral, adheres to local custom and practice.

For non-Catholics, the age of 10 is held to be pretty much an analog or sustitute for having been baptized or christened as a Christian, and having reached the age of reason or discernment where a child understands the importance of accomplishing a Camino, and the entirety of the ritual surrounding arrival at the Cathedral for Catholics and many Christians.

One must also consider that the Compostela is and has always been an official document issued by the Catholic Church to document accomplishment of a serious and significant religious or spiritual pilgrimage. In this context, they do not easily accede to anything that might dilute this seriously religious or spiritual paradigm.

A priest might explain this better than I am trying to. But I think you get the idea.

Hope this helps.

 

[t2andreo]

It is nearly 15:00 (end of my shift). No sign yet of our fecund couple off the Norte...

If they see this, they can private message me through the Forum and I will try to assist. I will be here tomorrow from 10:00 - 15:00.

Hope this helps.

 

[t2andreo]

Post

I have received a couple of compostelas for walking "in dedication to." I was always asked if the person was incapable of walking or deceased. I was never asked if the person had ever been alive. My four year old grandson got a completion certificate. Getting a compostela was never a consideration. He is too young to have: devotedly visited this most sacred temple with Christian sentiment (pietatis causa).

From the Pilgrim Office website:
Children and pilgrimage. Children who make the pilgrimage with their parents or in groups, and have received the sacrament of Communion, or have the ability to understand the meaning of the spiritual or religious nature of the Way, can receive the “Compostela”. If they are not mature enough due to their young age, they are given a special certificate with their names. In the case of infants or very young children, their names are included on the parent or accompanying adult’s “Compostela”. If you are in any doubt, please contact us at the Pilgrim’s Reception Office so we can look at each individual case.

The unique concept here is in the category of a compostela for a dog. It has conversational value, but is not in the realm of the purpose of the compostela. I would be interested in the proof required by the Office since there won't be a Credencial.

Can you share your win-win solution?

My post #18 above contains my basic idea. A Compostela is not in the offing.

Nor, is “In Vicare Pro” at the bottom of her Compostela appropriate. That phrase is ONLY for a deceased person or a person, whose health or ailments preclude them from EVER walking a Camino. Clearly we cannot know that in this instance,

I would propose the adults obtain their a Compostelas as normal. I would suggest the “Familia Name-Name” on a Distancia.

I would then offer whatever photos they wanted to point to the woman’s possible condition. The combination of photos and the Distance Certificate (a wholly secular document) is both doable and appropriate.

If they ask for something, anything, in the name of an arguably just conceived baby, the answer will be no. So why even go there?

Hope this helps.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I have a win-win solution thought out. In past years I have handled similar accommodations.

It is such a curious idea, I think cleverly proposed, that I asked. Here is the response from the Pilgrim Office:

Oficina del Peregrino <oficinadelperegrino@catedraldesantiago.es>
To: .com

Jul 20 at 12:42 PM

Good afternoon
It´s not possible get the Compostela for a fetus.
To obtain the Compostela you must have made the first communion.

Best regards

Cesar Rua
Oficina de Acogida al Peregrino
S.A.M.I.Catedral de Santiago
Tel.: 981 568 846
oficinadelperegrino@catedraldesantiago.es
www.peregrinossantiago.es

 

[t2andreo]

Okay, everyone play nice. I have this covered here in Santiago. It will work out. Please trust me on this.

Cesar Rua was correct in his reply, mentioned above. He is one of the senior Pilgrim Office staff, and a friend.

My explanation was intentionally long, so as to explain how the rules apply to non-Catholics as well.

So, everyone just chill...please...

Hope this helps.

 

[jana2017]

Congratulations - what a beautiful way to come into the world - a blessing for sure. Not that you asked for suggestions, but I'd go for one of those really long Spanish names like Camino Estellla Marina Iago - it would just make kindergarten so much more fun!

 

[Felicia V]

What wonderful news!!! Congratulations!!!

 

[Former member 49149]

Yes, I am here in Santiago working at the Pilgrim Office, usually from 10:00 to 3:00 most every day. Look for my bright chartreuse ball cap.

I helped a German family of five on Tuesday who walked from SJPdP. They had a 6 year-old, a 4 year-old, and a 7-month old. The 6-year old walked the whole way. You should have seen his leg muscles!

Anyway, it was explained to them that the policy is that children under 10 do not receive Compostelas. They accepted that, but received a Distance Certificate naming the “Family Name-Name” as accomplishing the Camino Frances. I then took a nice family photo to accompany the certificate, which is attractive and very suitable for framing.

I hesitate to discuss ‘clever’ ways to add your unborn child to your Compostela. But, find me and I will see what, if anything I can finagle with staff. No promises though.

Where there is a will there is a way...even in Spain...

Hope this helps.

You really are something else, do you know that? What a lovely response! even to the point of using such a beautiful verb - finagle!

 

[Former member 2537]

My wife and I volunteered in la Oficina year and a half ago. I had a young woman joyfully appear at my station, ultrasound pictures in hand, requesting a compostela for both herself and the baby. This was a new one for me so I called one of the staff over to render a judgement. The judgement was "no" which immediately resulted in a flood of tears. The explanation was that the recipient of the compostela must declare having walked for religious or spiritual reasons and an unborn child can't do that. At the staff person's suggestion, this was resolved to the young woman's satisfaction by my writing her name in the allotted space leaving room for her to add the child's name underneath. Watching me complete the compostela, she remarked "I really like your handwriting!" So we arranged to meet outside la Oficina for me to complete the operation. That's a secret. Don't tell anyone! This was a highlight of my now seven volunteer activities of one kind or another on the Camino.

 

[KariC]

If a girl, should be Estella, not Stella. Pretty name! And I love Santiago as a boy, of course.

Estela, if we're getting technical - the double ll would make it pronounced Es-TAY-ya (unless that's what you're after . .. ).

 

[KariC]

Well, to get technical, the name of the city in Spain is Etella. And, just like some other Spanish citiy names are pronounced differently by some in English (Seville/Sevilla), I suppose the parents or child could choose how they prefer it to be pronounced.

Didn't realize you were going after a city name.

 

[wayfarer]

Firstly, welcome Cassieryle and congratulations.
I have removed some argumentative and inappropriate posts and the replies to them. Please stick to the OP's query.

 

[cassieryle]

Update: went to pilgrim office today. I told our attendant that I was pregnant and didn’t expect a Compostela for the baby, but asked for a distancia. He replied that he could add, in Latin, ‘boy or girl Ryle’ (Ryle is the surname) to my Compostela. He did without any further questioning.

Meanwhile my husband was in another line. He got a distancia with room to write the baby’s name on it after we have given birth.

SO it all works out

To the gentleman with the chartreuse hat- we came a little earlier than 10 because we saw a giant group of young Spaniards about to walk in and got scared of waiting in a long line. I do appreciate your offer to help, but it all worked out anyway. Thank you!!!!

 

[Terri B]

@t2andreo "So, everyone just chill...please."

Love your attitude!!
Buen Camino

 

[t2andreo]

You really are something else, do you know that? What a lovely response! even to the point of using such a beautiful verb - finagle!

I try the best I can. A good day for me is when I send pilgrims away smiling and satisfied. I work hard at what I do and take my role as a “welcomer” very seriously.

I would want the same treatment when I arrive from my Camino every year.

Hope this helps

 

[t2andreo]

Update: went to pilgrim office today. I told our attendant that I was pregnant and didn’t expect a Compostela for the baby, but asked for a distancia. He replied that he could add, in Latin, ‘boy or girl Ryle’ (Ryle is the surname) to my Compostela. He did without any further questioning.

Meanwhile my husband was in another line. He got a distancia with room to write the baby’s name on it after we have given birth.

SO it all works out

To the gentleman with the chartreuse hat- we came a little earlier than 10 because we saw a giant group of young Spaniards about to walk in and got scared of waiting in a long line. I do appreciate your offer to help, but it all worked out anyway. Thank you!!!!

In the words of The Bard, “All’s well that ends well.” I am happy that it worked out in the end, but I regret not meeting you.

If you are still in town, I work on Monday from 10 - 3 again. Yes, I have the same hat.

Our role is to find a way to say “yes” while remaining within the rules. If you went away happy and satisfied and no Church policies were violated, then all is indeed well.

I am certain we would all appreciate an ‘after action report’ in about eight months. There are many in the forum who are keen to know the gender and name you choose.

Personally, I wish you health and happiness. I hope that you have a routine pregnancy and give birth to a healthy child. Everything else is just detail.

The Camino provides...

 

[Thornley]

My kids made me read the OP blog ,
I think many people who have commented should just read this very informative newsletter about a Camino most have never experienced.

 

[JillGat]

My kids made me read the OP blog ,
I think many people who have commented should just read this very informative newsletter about a Camino most have never experienced.

Where?

 

[donalomahony]

Here! http://www.fckingziti.com/

 

[t2andreo]

Didn't realize you were going after a city name.

It also means 'star' as in Compostela 'field of stars...'

 

[Alan Pearce]

Slightly off topic, but a little the same as well.

When working as a hospitalero at Refugio Gaucelmo in Rabanal last year, I was asked by a newly arrived peregrina if we had a bed available. I replied that as she had not carried her back pack with her, I may not be able to offer one. She said with a big smile that she had not carried her back pack, but she had carried something else, and patted her belly. I then realised that she was around 5 months pregnant, and had indeed carried something else. After she stopped laughing, and I stopped looking so embarrassed, I showed her to a bed, and she explained that she was on her way to Compostela, so that she could have her unborn baby blessed in the cathedral.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.