Complaint Book

[Anniesantiago]

I did a search.
Couldn't find it.
I've never had to use it but I'm sending a group without me and I think they could have used it last season.
What is the name of the book where you register complaints.
Is each albergue required to have one?
Thanks.

 

[SabsP]

I did a search.
Couldn't find it.
I've never had to use it but I'm sending a group without me and I think they could have used it last season.
What is the name of the book where you register complaints.
Is each albergue required to have one?
Thanks.

Hoja de Reclamaciones.

Legislación sobre Hojas de Reclamaciones por Comunidades Autónomas | Ministerio de Derechos Sociales, Consumo y Agenda 2030

Comunidad Autónoma de AndalucíaDecreto 82/2022, de 17 de mayo, por el que se regulan las hojas de quejas y reclamaciones de las personas consumidoras y usuarias en la Comunidad Autónoma de AndalucíaComunidad Autónoma de Aragón

www.consumo.gob.es

Do not know for sure but I believe that donativos, as non commercial , do not need to have one but others here will know more details.

 

[henrythedog]

I did a search.
Couldn't find it.
I've never had to use it but I'm sending a group without me and I think they could have used it last season.
What is the name of the book where you register complaints.
Is each albergue required to have one?
Thanks.

Simply asking for it can reportedly result in an issue being resolved. I’ve only ever seen the book asked for once. If I recall correctly it was in duplicate for the complainant and the establishment.

If denied service it is, however, debatable whether you have achieved the necessary status of ‘customer’.

(Actually having checked - you don’t need to be a ‘client’ to make an entry: Esta es otra de las jugadas maestras y algo que muchas personas no saben. No hay que ser cliente de un servicio para poder solicitar una hoja de reclamaciones y reclamar)

 

[J Willhaus]

Do not know for sure but I believe that donativos, as non commercial , do not need to have one but others here will know more details.

We have not had one in any of the donativos where I have worked, however, I know that @Rebekah Scott mentioned it in reference to another albergue that may be under FICS service. I am unsure whether @Anniesantiago's group will be staying at any donativos though.

 

[LTfit]

Albergue Turísticos for sure have to have them. The forms I had were in duplicate or triplicate. Never came across them in donativos where I have served.

 

[Anniesantiago]

We have not had one in any of the donativos where I have worked, however, I know that @Rebekah Scott mentioned it in reference to another albergue that may be under FICS service. I am unsure whether @Anniesantiago's group will be staying at any donativos though.

No, we won't. We leave those beds for those pilgrims who need them.

 

[MaxHelado]

I had cause to ask for the complaints book last year (correctly listed as "la hoja de reclamaciones" in an earlier post). The price I was charged for my meal was twice the price shown on the menu and this was shrugged off with the simple explanation of "That's an old menu". There was no new menu. It quickly became clear that there was not going to be any give on the part of the bar owner and so I said I would pay the "new" price but could they please give me the complaints book.
They had never heard of a complaints book. They even dragged in a couple more regulars to impress upon me that there was no complaints book and that there was no law saying they needed to have one.
I said "Okay, then I will have to call the police". The bar owner refunded the extra charge and I think he wished me a nice day but he used words I had never heard before.
The point of this is that "la hoja de reclamaciones" are indeed magical words but the process can be unpleasant.
The other magical word is "TripAdvisor".

 

[ChrisGall]

Info and instructions for making an official complaint in the Hojas de Reclamaciones at an establishment: https://expatsmagazine.org/how-to-complain-in-spain/

 

[J Willhaus]

@MaxHelado did you ask for this while in Spain or is there also a version in Portugal?

 

[henrythedog]

I had cause to ask for the complaints book last year (correctly listed as "la hoja de reclamaciones" in an earlier post). The price I was charged for my meal was twice the price shown on the menu and this was shrugged off with the simple explanation of "That's an old menu". There was no new menu. It quickly became clear that there was not going to be any give on the part of the bar owner and so I said I would pay the "new" price but could they please give me the complaints book.
They had never heard of a complaints book. They even dragged in a couple more regulars to impress upon me that there was no complaints book and that there was no law saying they needed to have one.
I said "Okay, then I will have to call the police". The bar owner refunded the extra charge and I think he wished me a nice day but he used words I had never heard before.
The point of this is that "la hoja de reclamaciones" are indeed magical words but the process can be unpleasant.
The other magical word is "TripAdvisor".

I’ve often noticed a sign in bars, cafes and the like stating ‘aquí hay una hoja (or un libro) de reclamaciones’ - I assume that’s part of the legal requirement also and whichever authority periodically reviews the book would also check that a sign is displayed. Of course, in Spain, I wouldn’t be surprised if the book-checker and sign-checker work for two fully-staffed independent organisations.

 

[MaxHelado]

@MaxHelado did you ask for this while in Spain or is there also a version in Portugal?

This was in Spain.

 

[MaxHelado]

I’ve often noticed a sign in bars, cafes and the like stating ‘aquí hay una hoja (or un libro) de reclamaciones’ - I assume that’s part of the legal requirement also and whichever authority periodically reviews the book would also check that a sign is displayed. Of course, in Spain, I wouldn’t be surprised if the book-checker and sign-checker work for two fully-staffed independent organisations.

I think we also need to remember that in the smaller towns and villages the police are locals and will be well known to every bar-owner in town as perhaps were their fathers (or mothers) and their fathers before them. Maybe they went to school together. How likely are they to give a bar owner a hard time for not showing his notice about a complaints book? Would you?

 

[Tincatinker]

I have witnessed a couple of Guardia walk into a bar and demand to see the “hoja de reclamaciones”. At the time I just assumed that the bar owner had pissed them off in some careless manner.

As for “Tripeadvertiser”. As Big Andy, runs the Kings Head, lovely bloke, said “write wot you like, I know where you live..”

 

[MaxHelado]

I have witnessed a couple of Guardia walk into a bar and demand to see the “hoja de reclamaciones”. At the time I just assumed that the bar owner had pissed them off in some careless manner.

As for “Tripeadvertiser”. As Big Andy, runs the Kings Head, lovely bloke, said “write wot you like, I know where you live..”

If it's the Guardia who are responsible then that is a completely different kettle of fish.
Nobody messes with the Guardia.
Except maybe Big Andy.

 

[henrythedog]

I think we also need to remember that in the smaller towns and villages the police are locals and will be well known to every bar-owner in town as perhaps were their fathers (or mothers) and their fathers before them. Maybe they went to school together. How likely are they to give a bar owner a hard time for not showing his notice about a complaints book? Would you?

We’re not getting anywhere here Max. In Spain they’ve got a system, and there will be some process behind that system. If you don’t like it, trust it or think it works; don’t use it.

As it happens; the one time you asked to access the system your issue was resolved straight away. OK, you weren’t invited to call in next time you’re passing, but still …

 

[MaxHelado]

We’re not getting anywhere here Max. In Spain they’ve got a system, and there will be some process behind that system. If you don’t like it, trust it or think it works; don’t use it.

As it happens; the one time you asked to access the system your issue was resolved straight away. OK, you weren’t invited to call in next time you’re passing, but still …

Bit harsh. I was just giving my experience and saying that it did indeed work but the process is not easy. If you ask for the complaints book in any hotel or restaurant they are unlikely to be happy with you. My experience was that it worked but it was unpleasant.

 

[minha_alverca]

@MaxHelado did you ask for this while in Spain or is there also a version in Portugal?

There is also a version in Portugal which is called “livro de reclamações”. The complaints book is mandatory for all suppliers of goods or services who have contact with the general public.

 

[trecile]

No, we won't. We leave those beds for those pilgrims who need them.

But it's also important that people who are willing to pay a little extra stay at donativos to keep them going.

The bar owner refunded the extra charge and I think he wished me a nice day but he used words I had never heard before.

 

[dick bird]

I think we also need to remember that in the smaller towns and villages the police are locals and will be well known to every bar-owner in town as perhaps were their fathers (or mothers) and their fathers before them. Maybe they went to school together. How likely are they to give a bar owner a hard time for not showing his notice about a complaints book? Would you?

I wouldn't be too sure of that. In some countries (and Spain could well be one of them), the police have a deliberate policy of stationing officers away from their home town or village for this very reason. In any case, the bar has more interest in keeping well in with the police than vice versa.

 

[MaxHelado]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. In some countries (and Spain could well be one of them), the police have a deliberate policy of stationing officers away from their home town or village for this very reason. In any case, the bar has more interest in keeping well in with the police than vice versa.

I know there are 3 police forces in Spain, the policía local, the guardia civil and the policía nacional. I thought the policía local were local but maybe I’m wrong. I was serious when I said earlier “no-one messes with the Guardia”. Messing with any of the 3 would be a mistake but the reputation of the Guardia is IMHO “fair but very, very firm”.

I believe the Guardia is a national force with members staying in army style barracks and hence not local people. Their history is as Franco’s army post the Civil War.

Colloquially known as “picoletos” but not to their face!

 

[Anniesantiago]

But it's also important that people who are willing to pay a little extra stay at donativos to keep them going.

Yes, but with a group, I need to be able to make reservations, which isn't allowed in any donativos I'm aware of.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I didn't know about this book for many years.
I have had a couple of bad experiences.
One was at Ferreiros, where we charged twice for the same bottle of wine.
One was on the VDLP, can't recall the bar at the moment, where we were charged twice for the same meal.
Both times I paid but I sure would have loved to have been able to complain.
The last was just last year in Sarria at a lodging I won't mention. The owner was apparently on vacation and left another man to take care of the place. The fellow was quite inappropriate more than once, walking in on ladies having a shower, etc. I was not accompanying the group, and didn't hear until after the event, but would have raised Cain if I'd been there.

 

[JJW]

I didn't know about this book for many years.
I have had a couple of bad experiences.
One was at Ferreiros, where we charged twice for the same bottle of wine.
One was on the VDLP, can't recall the bar at the moment, where we were charged twice for the same meal.
Both times I paid but I sure would have loved to have been able to complain.
The last was just last year in Sarria at a lodging I won't mention. The owner was apparently on vacation and left another man to take care of the place. The fellow was quite inappropriate more than once, walking in on ladies having a shower, etc. I was not accompanying the group, and didn't hear until after the event, but would have raised Cain if I'd been there.

Yes, yes! It happened as you say. Also, Auberge in Asson from Lourdes to Jaca tried to charge us twice for our beds.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Yes, yes! It happened as you say. Also, Auberge in Asson from Lourdes to Jaca tried to charge us twice for our beds.

That's right! And luckily another pilgrim saw us pay!

 

[WGroleau]

I spent many months i a non-profit albergue. I was told that we were required to have one and that if/when it was used, the complainer had to be given a copy. Which is incentive for the proprietor to NOT remove complaints from the book, lest the Guardia show up with a copy obtained from a complainer and not find the mate to it in the book. I never saw ours, but no one ever asked. We did have a "guest book" that was left in a lounge for pilgrims to write in as they wished. 99% complimentary. One person complained (falsely) that no staff spoke Spanish and another complained in obscene Italian that he couldn't obtain a female there. We did remove that page!!

 

[JJW]

That's right! And luckily another pilgrim saw us pay!

I don’t know if there is a book in France.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I've been helping to run donativo albergues for many years now. We don't have hojas de reclamaciones. Never have. When queried, I tell people we are a non-profit, not a business.
I said this once to a peevish person at the albergue, with a Guardia Civil officer standing 3 feet away. She didn't tell me I was wrong. She just asked the peevish person "what do you want for nothing?"

 

[WGroleau]

With the help of Tincatinker, I found this list of links to laws about this:

Legislación sobre Hojas de Reclamaciones por Comunidades Autónomas | Ministerio de Derechos Sociales, Consumo y Agenda 2030

Comunidad Autónoma de AndalucíaDecreto 82/2022, de 17 de mayo, por el que se regulan las hojas de quejas y reclamaciones de las personas consumidoras y usuarias en la Comunidad Autónoma de AndalucíaComunidad Autónoma de Aragón

www.dsca.gob.es

It has a menu to change language, but all of them are actually in Spanish.
Has a link for each of the seventeen comunidades but nothing nationwide.
I worked in Navarra, so I clicked that link and got an error message.
Searched on Navarra's version of BOE for "hojas de reclamaciones" and got 159 hits. The third one looked pertinent, but I didn't find an answer to whether a nonprofit is required to have them.
The response of the Guardia officer is reasonable but not necessarily the law.

 

[Pilgrim9]

Dick Bird wrote:
"In some countries (and Spain could well be one of them), the police have a deliberate policy of stationing officers away from their home town or village for this very reason."

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) have that policy and it is a good policy to have.