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These groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.
The people who go on these sorts of tours can be pilgrims in spirit as much as those who walk every step.
Thanks. This group is actually doing some fair walking most days. Admirable. Then being bused to their Paradors/fine hotels. Why not? But 7.000-8.000+ USD for 10 days? I could do 4 full Caminos on that budget, including flights to/from my home... Plenty of beer money too. Not to mention meeting people like me on the Way.The full link.
Spain: Walking the Camino de Santiago
Walk El Camino de Santiago on a Vacation to Spain with National Geographic Expeditions. Along the way experience Santiago de Compostela and exhibits of Gaudi architecture.www.nationalgeographic.com
In Burglos they stay in the very nice NH Collection Hotel Palacio.
I'll give you my lower bunk anytime, @mspath. Let's walk.À chacun ses goûts/To each his own !
I wonder if/how these separate groups will ever meet and/or share any camino experience?
One cold December day east of Melide/near O Coto on the CF I wearily stopped for a second breakfast in the patio of a rather chic, but friendly, casa rural. A small van of tourists arrived and a few hyper-tidy ‘Sunday pilgrims’ with new walking sticks exited in order to sample the trail! Spotting my pack and shell they politely asked “How long have you been walking?” “48 days!” I answered. Stunned they dashed to the bar and never moved on....
It's Santa Maria del Manzano, at the beginning of Castrojeriz and on the right side of the Camino trail.Where is the church that is pictured?
Thanks!It's Santa Maria del Manzano, at the beginning of Castrojeriz and on the right side of the Camino trail.
This mode is precisely what I saw in Germany; and preponderantly during the July-August holiday period. That's why their routes were so unpopulated the other months that still had nice weather.Real pilgrims in her very definite opinion travelled by bus in church-sponsored groups accompanied by a priest.
On my first Camino in 2008 I saw plenty of what I termed ‘Parador Pilgrims’. They weren’t a problem then it in 2017.View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.
These groups might not be taking Albergue bunk beds but I think that the price of our occasional private room will go up.These groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.
Edit: Relax, and enjoy your Camino.
Buen Camino!
These tour groups have been going on for quite a few years. I can't see any problems with it.These groups might not be taking Albergue bunk beds but I think that the price of our occasional private room will go up.
These tour groups do impact bed availability. I arrived at a midsized town/village around 1PM. There are three albergues, two private and one municipal. At 1 PM the tour group had the two privates totally booked with advanced reservations. As result the municipal ran out of beds by 1:15. I was lucky I arrived early. I was 27 out of 30 beds availible.View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.
If this post and thread do not violate "The New Rule" then I don't know what would.View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.
That was my experience for the first time in many Caminos this year. Honestly, it changed the way I feel about the groupsThese tour groups do impact bed availability. I arrived at a midsized town/village around 1PM. There are three albergues, two private and one municipal. At 1 PM the tour group had the two privates totally booked with advanced reservations. As result the municipal ran out of beds by 1:15. I was lucky I arrived early. I was 27 out of 30 beds availible.
This is not a criticism, just a story. On one particular day a couple of times we ran into a small group of pilgrims on a Backroads tour. The van would stop, drop them off, then we'd see the van a couple of miles later waiting to pick them up. Then we caught up to them after lunch and again later after they had stopped to visit something. By then they were looking familiar and we we chatted a bit. One couple was taking advantage of this style of travel to run between being dropped off and picked up. I joked with them and offered to let them carry my pack so that they would have "the full experience". Sadly, they declined. But this tour was working for them. They were covering the miles in a shorter period of time which worked for their busy schedule.View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.
I think the point was that the expensive tours such as the subject of this thread do not much affect bed availability in the albergues. This group is staying at paradors, etc. Of course you could argue that there is a trickle-down effect, but that just becomes a question of overall supply of accommodations to visitors.These tour groups do impact bed availability.
Yes, it would be useful to know which mass they attend.On the positive side with the price these pilgrims are paying, the group is probably going to pay to see the Botafumeiro.
WowOn my second Camino I was told very firmly by a member of a church group travelling from Germany to Santiago by bus that I was not a genuine pilgrim precisely because I walked and travelled alone. That was for hikers. Real pilgrims in her very definite opinion travelled by bus in church-sponsored groups accompanied by a priest. You are never going to get everyone to accept your own definitions!
We've walked through there twice on caminos and have always found the church impressive. We tried to go inside the second time but it was locked up tight. In the tour publicity photo, the pilgrim does seem to be going in the wrong direction! Here is photo we took of it approaching Castrojerez.Thanks!
So this pilgrim is either confused or the bus is taking her group backwards. Or, more likely, this angle gives a better picture for the brochure.
I do remember a romanesque church outside Castrojeriz but didn’t remember it being so impressive. The web says it’s a colegiata and that there is now a museum inside. It was closed up tight when I walked by several times in the early 2000s, things do change!
Have forum members visited the inside? Any pictures?
Well, a post that challenges the intentions or "pilgrim" status of another individual would. Or a post that argues about who is or isn't a pilgrim or tourist. Or one that insists one group belongs on the Camino and another one does not.If this post and thread do not violate "The New Rule" then I don't know what would.
These "rules" are guidance for members and moderators. They try to communicate some ideas, and help us navigate the rough waters of internet discourse. Their conception is not perfect but we try to be reasonable. It seems you agree that so far, so good, on this thread.Not that there is anything wrong with this post and thread, it is the new rule, poorly conceived.
Not to nitpick - who would nitpick in a forum thread - but the person in the photo does walk in the direction of Santiago de Compostela!In the tour publicity photo, the pilgrim does seem to be going in the wrong direction!
The Bavarian Pilgrim Office in Munich (Bayerisches Pilgerbüro) is an organisation that offers this kind of bus trips - often for Catholic parishes but not only for them. They've been doing it since 1928 and they have the Camino to Santiago de Compostela in their catalogues since 1992.
That's a good 20 years before Sheen/Estevez made their movie about The Way.
Not sure why you are quoting me or the movie or telling me that. Each to their own.The Bavarian Pilgrim Office in Munich (Bayerisches Pilgerbüro) is an organisation that offers this kind of bus trips - often for Catholic parishes but not only for them. They've been doing it since 1928 and they have the Camino to Santiago de Compostela in their catalogues since 1992.
That's a good 20 years before Sheen/Estevez made their movie about The Way.
I am going to remove the quote ("Wow") from my post. I was merely continuing a subthread started by @Bradypus and thought that the information might be interesting - or surprising - for other readers of this thread.Not sure why you are quoting me or the movie or telling me that. Each to their own.
ok thanks.I am going to remove the quote ("Wow") from my post. I was merely continuing a subthread started by @Bradypus and thought that the information might be interesting - or surprising - for other readers of this thread.
There were definitely large groups (40 and 30) booking in hostels when I walked this year in the Fromista area. They were in close proximity and causing issues for others. Delightful people, definitely walking, most all day, with support vehicle.This was the first year I had seen entire albergues booked by groups. If you unfortunately were one of the few beds not occupied by the group, you sat by yourself at the communal dinner.
Thanks. I wasn’t anxious about them. My post was FYI. I won’t see any busloads, given that my route is different from their Camino Frances tour.These groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.
Edit: Relax, and enjoy your Camino.
Buen Camino!
I think this is an excellent point worth considering more. There was a lot of jubilation when UNESCO first added the Camino de Santiago to the list of World heritage Sites. That wasn't done for its religious significance but for its historical, cultural and artistic significance. It is hardly becoming to rejoice at the recognition and then complain when it is followed by people looking to see the sites of cultural, artistic, and historic significance,It's a World Heritage site not because one can walk 800 km on foot - one can walk 800 km on foot anywhere in the world - it's a World Heritage site because of its significance in Spain's and Europe's history and because a lot of old buildings of significance for it coming into existence and development are still standing. Unesco describes the Camino de Santiago as: This serial property includes a magnificent ensemble of built heritage of historical importance created to fill the needs of pilgrims, including churches, hospitals, hostels, monasteries, calvaries, bridges, and other structures, many of which testify to the artistic and architectural evolution that occurred between the Romanesque and Baroque periods. Outstanding natural landscapes as well as a rich intangible cultural heritage also survive to the present day.
Except you’ll deal with them waiting for coffee and food, no BuenoThese groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.
Edit: Relax, and enjoy your Camino.
Buen Camino!
Be generous. You are next in line.Except you’ll deal with them waiting for coffee and food, no Bueno
You are my Camino hero! Someday I'm going to work up the courage to do a winter Camino!À chacun ses goûts/To each his own !
I wonder if/how these separate groups will ever meet and/or share any camino experience?
One cold December day east of Melide/near O Coto on the CF I wearily stopped for a second breakfast in the patio of a rather chic, but friendly, casa rural. A small van of tourists arrived and a few hyper-tidy ‘Sunday pilgrims’ with new walking sticks exited in order to sample the trail! Spotting my pack and shell they politely asked “How long have you been walking?” “48 days!” I answered. Stunned they dashed to the bar and never moved on....
In 2019 I was walking the same stages as 30 Irish schoolboys and their chaperones, and the group had reserved over half of the beds at the municipal albergue in Azofra. Fortunately my friend and I got beds, but many who arrived later were put in an overflow building.This year I spent 3 days on the Frances bridging between two routes and hear (a few times) about a group of Korean Pilgrims about 90 strong who were booking out all the Albergue beds as they passed along the route.
Supply and demand. If people will (can) pay, others will supply. Not my cup of tea (or my budget!)That pricing is insane.
Except you’ll deal with them waiting for coffee and food, no Bueno
I agree with you. It’s no sweat and has no effect at all on me. As my grandmother would say to me “it’s not your business”. That about sums it up. The funny thing is on a couple of occasions I twice saw different groups walking ahead with day packs and then when I caught up with the groups they were getting into vans. I thought how weird that people would be be doing this a few days out of the Sevilla on the VDLP.Thanks. This group is actually doing some fair walking most days. Admirable. Then being bused to their Paradors/fine hotels. Why not? But 7.000-8.000+ USD for 10 days? I could do 4 full Caminos on that budget, including flights to/from my home... Plenty of beer money too. Not to mention meeting people like me on the Way.
But if one has the money, and not the health, why not take that tour? I don't mind, and have no right to, either.
I do it my way.
What I am saying is that for some people a tour group is the best that they will manage and to look at them with compassion and not resentment. They have only the crumbs from the table.This fear and resentment of tour groups is very People Like Us. You want to reserve this experience only for PLU. Don’t forget that those who can walk a Camino like Frances, taking around 6 weeks to do so is a tiny, very privileged group. Yes, there are thousands of you but most are from the fit and retired group or the young with few commitments group.
For most of the rest they need to access the wonders of the world in tiny week long bites. They get a lovely taste of the banquet that is a Camino and God willing may live long enough to come back once they retire to do the whole thing ‘properly’. At least for them they have seen Burgos and Leon, have walked some of the way, have seen Santiago and learned some of the history of this remarkable route.
They have just as much right to access it this way as anyone else.
Perhaps the ones you should resent are those who do the Camino your way more than once, the PLU!!
PLU are the ones who will compete for beds.
PLU are the ones who have already had their fill of the feast and come back for a second and third helping.
What I am saying is that for some people a tour group is the best that they will manage and to look at them with compassion and not resentment. They have only the crumbs from the table.
I wonder what you mean by this. I think that it is bad enough that any member might resent anyone undertaking a pilgrimage to SDC by car or bus, but you seem to be suggesting that we should resent other walking/cycling pilgrims. Is that really what you mean?Perhaps the ones you should resent are those who do the Camino your way more than once, the PLU!!
PLU are the ones who will compete for beds.
PLU are the ones who have already had their fill of the feast and come back for a second and third helping.
Nothing wrong with that. I've done multiple caminos myself - and by coincidence, and 3 days warning became a camino guide on a group walking/bussing it from Burgos. The planned guide had gotten sick and one of the participants knew me. So off I went all expenses paid. Another guide was in charge of booking etc but knew nothing about the camino. It was 14 people, all nice and respectful people - that really got a kick out of someone saying buen camino to them.View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.
You've not considered Tour Group demographics have you?They get a lovely taste of the banquet that is a Camino and God willing may live long enough to come back once they retire to do the whole thing ‘properly’.
I have heard that before. Like I was taking up space because I had already done a camino - why do it again?I wonder what you mean by this. I think that it is bad enough that any member might resent anyone undertaking a pilgrimage to SDC by car or bus, but you seem to be suggesting that we should resent other walking/cycling pilgrims. Is that really what you mean?
I'm not sure I've done it properly yet but I will keep tryingwhy do it again?
I get thatI'm not sure I've done it properly yet but I will keep trying
No, I worded it poorly. I certainly don't want people to resent anyone. I was just pointing out that they don't resent or fear the people who are doing the Camino in the same way as them, who actual do compete directly for the gites and Albergues that they will stay in, so why resent those who will usually stay at totally different places and who will zoom past on busses only impacting the long walker once if at all. That they don't worry or question those who walk the Camino many times who also contribute to full beds but question the people who will get a brief taste probably only the once.I wonder what you mean by this. I think that it is bad enough that any member might resent anyone undertaking a pilgrimage to SDC by car or bus, but you seem to be suggesting that we should resent other walking/cycling pilgrims. Is that really what you mean?
PLU is People Like Us.You've not considered Tour Group demographics have you?
The participants are unlikely to be those young and labouring middle-agers who've parked the kids with Grandma for ten days while they soak up the essence of Camino. The smiling happy person you'll see is Grandma, spending "their" inheritance having left a note saying "your kids, you look after 'em".
I don't give a shit what "other people" do. Neither it seems do the vast majority of this community mind what "other people" do (except shit on the trail; stumble late and drunk into the Albergue or, book out three Albergues and renege on two of those bookings).
PLU? Is that People Like Us or People Like (typo)?
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