Coming to the Camino Frances, a flood of tour groups

[SilentNight]

This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.

 

[alexwalker]

View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.

These groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.

Edit: Relax, and enjoy your Camino.

Buen Camino!

 

[Tincatinker]

This and similar has been on offer for many years. The impact on walking and cycling Pilgrims is infinitesimal. Please remember that there is no requirement that a Pilgrim to the shrine of Santiago should walk there. That requirement is imposed only on those who wish to obtain a Compostela from the Pilgrims Office

 

[trecile]

The people who go on these sorts of tours can be pilgrims in spirit as much as those who walk every step. As @Tincatinker said, there is no walking requirement to visit the Cathedral and the tomb. And there are no worries at all that they will take over any albergues!

 

[Bradypus]

The people who go on these sorts of tours can be pilgrims in spirit as much as those who walk every step.

On my second Camino I was told very firmly by a member of a church group travelling from Germany to Santiago by bus that I was not a genuine pilgrim precisely because I walked and travelled alone. That was for hikers. Real pilgrims in her very definite opinion travelled by bus in church-sponsored groups accompanied by a priest. You are never going to get everyone to accept your own definitions!

 

[SabsP]

The full link.

Spain: Walking the Camino de Santiago

Walk El Camino de Santiago on a Vacation to Spain with National Geographic Expeditions. Along the way experience Santiago de Compostela and exhibits of Gaudi architecture.

www.nationalgeographic.com

In Burgos they stay in the very nice NH Collection Hotel Palacio.

 

[alexwalker]

The full link.

Spain: Walking the Camino de Santiago

Walk El Camino de Santiago on a Vacation to Spain with National Geographic Expeditions. Along the way experience Santiago de Compostela and exhibits of Gaudi architecture.

www.nationalgeographic.com

In Burglos they stay in the very nice NH Collection Hotel Palacio.

Thanks. This group is actually doing some fair walking most days. Admirable. Then being bused to their Paradors/fine hotels. Why not? But 7.000-8.000+ USD for 10 days? I could do 4 full Caminos on that budget, including flights to/from my home... Plenty of beer money too. Not to mention meeting people like me on the Way.

But if one has the money, and not the health, why not take that tour? I don't mind, and have no right to, either.

I do it my way.

 

[lovelyshell]

I also got this National Geo booklet and I believe the group was like 10-12 people not 55.

 

[mspath]

À chacun ses goûts/To each his own !
I wonder if/how these separate groups will ever meet and/or share any camino experience?

One cold December day east of Melide/near O Coto on the CF I wearily stopped for a second breakfast in the patio of a rather chic, but friendly, casa rural. A small van of tourists arrived and a few hyper-tidy ‘Sunday pilgrims’ with new walking sticks exited in order to sample the trail! Spotting my pack and shell they politely asked “How long have you been walking?” “48 days!” I answered. Stunned they dashed to the bar and never moved on....

 

[Anniesantiago]

Sheesh! I'm not charging enough! (kidding but WHOAH!)

 

[alexwalker]

À chacun ses goûts/To each his own !
I wonder if/how these separate groups will ever meet and/or share any camino experience?

One cold December day east of Melide/near O Coto on the CF I wearily stopped for a second breakfast in the patio of a rather chic, but friendly, casa rural. A small van of tourists arrived and a few hyper-tidy ‘Sunday pilgrims’ with new walking sticks exited in order to sample the trail! Spotting my pack and shell they politely asked “How long have you been walking?” “48 days!” I answered. Stunned they dashed to the bar and never moved on....

I'll give you my lower bunk anytime, @mspath. Let's walk.

 

[Mananath]

That pricing is insane.

 

[C clearly]

I think the title of this thread is mis-leading. Such groups are not new - they come every year. And I don't see anywhere on the brochure that they are considered either pilgrims or non-pilgrims, which is consistent with our Forum rule 3, where we ask you not to declare whether other people are pilgrims or not. That is for them to decide.
[Thread title has been changed to remove referrnce to "non-pilgrims]

​

 

[Steven Dwyer]

I took a look at the trip description and they only have 7 days of walking. Maybe those folks who occasional post asking what stages to skip can use this as a guide. If you look at the map below, the tiny Green dots are their stages. Their days will go from 5 to 13 mile.

Darn, wish I had that kind of a travel budget!

 

[peregrina2000]

Where is the church that is pictured? I can’t place it.

 

[CWBuff]

I noticed that the outfit whom i booked TMB with for next year also does various routes and variatios of Camino de santiago. For the kicks of it, I looked up "complete" CF, which would start in SJPdP. 40 days walk, incl. day rest ea in Burgos and León not skipping Meseta. This is what's included

• 39 Nights accommodation in small rural hotels and hostels, twin/double rooms with en-suite W/C
• Daily breakfast
• Baggage Transfers
• A detailed information pack, including route notes, maps and local information
• Camino guide book with maps
• Access to the Smartphone App
• Emergency support from our local and UK offices

So basically they take care of all accommodation and baggage transfer logistics along the Way, but you walk every day and deal with any daily issues.
Price started at $4,900.00. I didn't investigate further as to what season\time of the year\etc it applied ... most assuredly it wouldn't be what we consider a height of Pilgrimage season..but maybe I'm wrong.
In any case, I didn't think it to be overly bad price-wise, yeah a bit on the high end but still...

 

[Kathor1]

Where is the church that is pictured?

It's Santa Maria del Manzano, at the beginning of Castrojeriz and on the right side of the Camino trail.

 

[peregrina2000]

It's Santa Maria del Manzano, at the beginning of Castrojeriz and on the right side of the Camino trail.

Thanks!

So this pilgrim is either confused or the bus is taking her group backwards. Or, more likely, this angle gives a better picture for the brochure.

I do remember a romanesque church outside Castrojeriz but didn’t remember it being so impressive. The web says it’s a colegiata and that there is now a museum inside. It was closed up tight when I walked by several times in the early 2000s, things do change!

Have forum members visited the inside? Any pictures?

 

[Kathor1]

We didn't go inside but I remember that we walked up to the portal that is shown in the photo. I can't remember whether the portal was open or locked.

I think that most people will not notice the façade because the Camino trail turns to the left and one would have to turn to the right and leave the trail to see it. It's described in Gitlitz/Davidson which is probably the only reason why we noticed it.

I was going to make a joke about me wrongly thinking that the name had something to do with apples but in fact I see now in the Cultural Handbook that the church owes its founding to a miracle because Saint James was passing by and saw a vision of the Virgin in an appletree. That's probably the kind of things that you learn when you are on a Camino tour with National Geographic experts.

 

[VNwalking]

Have forum members visited the inside? Any pictures?

Yup, in 2019.
Voila: Sorry, not especially nice pics. It was impressive inside.

 

[Kitsambler]

Real pilgrims in her very definite opinion travelled by bus in church-sponsored groups accompanied by a priest.

This mode is precisely what I saw in Germany; and preponderantly during the July-August holiday period. That's why their routes were so unpopulated the other months that still had nice weather.

 

[Susan Peacock]

This was the first year I had seen entire albergues booked by groups. If you unfortunately were one of the few beds not occupied by the group, you sat by yourself at the communal dinner.

 

[walkingstu]

The legend goes on to say that St. James's horse was so frightened that it bolted, and left it's hoof prints in the stone in front of the church.

 

[CWBuff]

Smart horse - knew to do it right in front of the church

 

[Sherpa47]

View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.

On my first Camino in 2008 I saw plenty of what I termed ‘Parador Pilgrims’. They weren’t a problem then it in 2017.
My only hang up is using in my opinion a sacred pilgrimage route for fundraiser purposes.

 

[MichelleO]

These groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.

Edit: Relax, and enjoy your Camino.

Buen Camino!

These groups might not be taking Albergue bunk beds but I think that the price of our occasional private room will go up.

 

[makingtrax]

I visited this church in 2017 on my camino with young Philipp from Germany. We just walked in, looked around and walked out without realizing there was a fee for entrance! I actually enjoyed the house of silence in the town more though. That had a beautiful atomsphere.

 

[alexwalker]

These groups might not be taking Albergue bunk beds but I think that the price of our occasional private room will go up.

These tour groups have been going on for quite a few years. I can't see any problems with it.

 

[RRat]

View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.

These tour groups do impact bed availability. I arrived at a midsized town/village around 1PM. There are three albergues, two private and one municipal. At 1 PM the tour group had the two privates totally booked with advanced reservations. As result the municipal ran out of beds by 1:15. I was lucky I arrived early. I was 27 out of 30 beds availible.

 

[T0M]

View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.

If this post and thread do not violate "The New Rule" then I don't know what would.

Not that there is anything wrong with this post and thread, it is the new rule, poorly conceived.

 

[Quinranda]

I met such a group last year being dropped off at the base of Alto del Perdon. Talked with a few in the group before we passed them. They seemed amazed that my daughter and I were walking the whole CF. Lots of questions. Some in the group seemed to have some physical limitations. Others did not. Had a pleasant interaction before heading on our way.

 

[Susan Peacock]

These tour groups do impact bed availability. I arrived at a midsized town/village around 1PM. There are three albergues, two private and one municipal. At 1 PM the tour group had the two privates totally booked with advanced reservations. As result the municipal ran out of beds by 1:15. I was lucky I arrived early. I was 27 out of 30 beds availible.

That was my experience for the first time in many Caminos this year. Honestly, it changed the way I feel about the groups

 

[Amused212]

View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.

This is not a criticism, just a story. On one particular day a couple of times we ran into a small group of pilgrims on a Backroads tour. The van would stop, drop them off, then we'd see the van a couple of miles later waiting to pick them up. Then we caught up to them after lunch and again later after they had stopped to visit something. By then they were looking familiar and we we chatted a bit. One couple was taking advantage of this style of travel to run between being dropped off and picked up. I joked with them and offered to let them carry my pack so that they would have "the full experience". Sadly, they declined. But this tour was working for them. They were covering the miles in a shorter period of time which worked for their busy schedule.

 

[C clearly]

These tour groups do impact bed availability.

I think the point was that the expensive tours such as the subject of this thread do not much affect bed availability in the albergues. This group is staying at paradors, etc. Of course you could argue that there is a trickle-down effect, but that just becomes a question of overall supply of accommodations to visitors.

 

[Steven Dwyer]

On the positive side with the price these pilgrims are paying, the group is probably going to pay to see the Botafumeiro.

 

[trecile]

On the positive side with the price these pilgrims are paying, the group is probably going to pay to see the Botafumeiro.

Yes, it would be useful to know which mass they attend.

 

[@Ditts]

On my second Camino I was told very firmly by a member of a church group travelling from Germany to Santiago by bus that I was not a genuine pilgrim precisely because I walked and travelled alone. That was for hikers. Real pilgrims in her very definite opinion travelled by bus in church-sponsored groups accompanied by a priest. You are never going to get everyone to accept your own definitions!

Wow

 

[Kathor1]

The NatGeo groups are staying at Gran Hotel La Perla in Pamplona, Parador Nacional de Santo Domingo de la Calzada, NH Collection Palacio de Burgos, Hotel Real Monasterio San Zoilo, Hotel Real Colegiata in Leon, Parador de Villafranca del Bierzo, Parador Nacional de Monforte de Lemos, Parador de Santiago - Hostal dos Reis Católicos (2 nights).

I can't see that they have a great effect on bed availability for Camino foot pilgrims.

 

[Kathor1]

As to the Botafumeiro, I would not hold my breath. A pilgrim mass is not mentioned in the NatGeo program. What's in the program is a guided historical tour of the cathedral and the city’s old quarter, a World Heritage site.

Also, the NatGeo blurb says: The route has given rise to historic and religious sites that represent centuries of European architecture at its best. Set out from Pamplona to discover the longest pilgrimage route in Europe, experiencing the most picturesque and poignant sections of this World Heritage site on foot.

It's a World Heritage site not because one can walk 800 km on foot - one can walk 800 km on foot anywhere in the world - it's a World Heritage site because of its significance in Spain's and Europe's history and because a lot of old buildings of significance for it coming into existence and development are still standing. Unesco describes the Camino de Santiago as: This serial property includes a magnificent ensemble of built heritage of historical importance created to fill the needs of pilgrims, including churches, hospitals, hostels, monasteries, calvaries, bridges, and other structures, many of which testify to the artistic and architectural evolution that occurred between the Romanesque and Baroque periods. Outstanding natural landscapes as well as a rich intangible cultural heritage also survive to the present day.

I've been on similar tours though not in Spain and a little less pricey (what I regard as pricey may not be what others regard as pricey). You walk some, you travel some by bus or minivans. You visit ancient sites. You have an archaeologist or an expert in Roman history as your main cultural guide, in addition to local guides at some sites. Wonderful experience and wonderful memories. So?

 

[Tincatinker]

These days, on any Camino, I tend to stay in private accommodations, I tend to eat in places that are offering something a bit special, I tend to drink wine that is not just “vino tinto local” or worse, universal Rioja. If I find myself in a Donativo bunk bed eating whatever they can rustle up I’ll leave my “budget” in the box. I can afford to, why wouldn’t I.

I’ve had the odd encounter with tour bus groups. Some have been interesting and entertaining; some have reminded me what irritating shits the self entitled can be. Neither group changed my Camino.

I’ve walked in Spain when all I owned was on my back. I’ve walked in Spain with enough loose change to buy myself a house. No one started judging me till I had the temerity to call myself a Pilgrim

 

[wynrich]

Thanks!

So this pilgrim is either confused or the bus is taking her group backwards. Or, more likely, this angle gives a better picture for the brochure.

I do remember a romanesque church outside Castrojeriz but didn’t remember it being so impressive. The web says it’s a colegiata and that there is now a museum inside. It was closed up tight when I walked by several times in the early 2000s, things do change!

Have forum members visited the inside? Any pictures?

We've walked through there twice on caminos and have always found the church impressive. We tried to go inside the second time but it was locked up tight. In the tour publicity photo, the pilgrim does seem to be going in the wrong direction! Here is photo we took of it approaching Castrojerez.

 

[C clearly]

If this post and thread do not violate "The New Rule" then I don't know what would.

Well, a post that challenges the intentions or "pilgrim" status of another individual would. Or a post that argues about who is or isn't a pilgrim or tourist. Or one that insists one group belongs on the Camino and another one does not.

Not that there is anything wrong with this post and thread, it is the new rule, poorly conceived.

These "rules" are guidance for members and moderators. They try to communicate some ideas, and help us navigate the rough waters of internet discourse. Their conception is not perfect but we try to be reasonable. It seems you agree that so far, so good, on this thread.

 

[Kathor1]

In the tour publicity photo, the pilgrim does seem to be going in the wrong direction!

Not to nitpick - who would nitpick in a forum thread - but the person in the photo does walk in the direction of Santiago de Compostela!

He may not have come from where the lot of us on the forum come when we walk past Santa Maria del Manzano but we don't know anything about his prior ways. He may simply have walked around the whole building to get a good view or walked to the end of the west façade and then turned back again. Some people do that - I know it for sure. Or he is a photo model. It's good shot of the church though, isn't it?

 

[Kathor1]

The Bavarian Pilgrim Office in Munich (Bayerisches Pilgerbüro) is an organisation that offers bus trips - often for Catholic parishes but not only for them. They've been doing it since 1928 and they have the Camino to Santiago de Compostela in their catalogues since 1992.

That's a good 20 years before Sheen/Estevez made their movie about The Way.

PS: Edited.

 

[SabsP]

The Bavarian Pilgrim Office in Munich (Bayerisches Pilgerbüro) is an organisation that offers this kind of bus trips - often for Catholic parishes but not only for them. They've been doing it since 1928 and they have the Camino to Santiago de Compostela in their catalogues since 1992.

That's a good 20 years before Sheen/Estevez made their movie about The Way.

Idem in Belgium and the Netherlands .
Locally to Banneux in Belgium but also further away.

reisaanbod

Reizen is leuk. Onderweg zijn. Andere mensen ontmoeten. Nieuwe culturen ervaren. Sfeer proeven. Dat is spannend. Allicht. En soms wil je net iets meer: een reis die je verder brengt. Verder dan alleen maar naar een nieuw land of een andere omgeving.

www.huisvoordepelgrim.nl

 

[@Ditts]

The Bavarian Pilgrim Office in Munich (Bayerisches Pilgerbüro) is an organisation that offers this kind of bus trips - often for Catholic parishes but not only for them. They've been doing it since 1928 and they have the Camino to Santiago de Compostela in their catalogues since 1992.

That's a good 20 years before Sheen/Estevez made their movie about The Way.

Not sure why you are quoting me or the movie or telling me that. Each to their own.

 

[Kathor1]

Not sure why you are quoting me or the movie or telling me that. Each to their own.

I am going to remove the quote ("Wow") from my post. I was merely continuing a subthread started by @Bradypus and thought that the information might be interesting - or surprising - for other readers of this thread.

 

[@Ditts]

I am going to remove the quote ("Wow") from my post. I was merely continuing a subthread started by @Bradypus and thought that the information might be interesting - or surprising - for other readers of this thread.

ok thanks.

 

[Yoyo]

Have forum members visited the inside? Any pictures?

I can add two more:

 

[mgnswaus]

This was the first year I had seen entire albergues booked by groups. If you unfortunately were one of the few beds not occupied by the group, you sat by yourself at the communal dinner.

There were definitely large groups (40 and 30) booking in hostels when I walked this year in the Fromista area. They were in close proximity and causing issues for others. Delightful people, definitely walking, most all day, with support vehicle.

 

[SilentNight]

Interesting

These groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.

Edit: Relax, and enjoy your Camino.

Buen Camino!

Thanks. I wasn’t anxious about them. My post was FYI. I won’t see any busloads, given that my route is different from their Camino Frances tour.

On seeing the same group, I had a different experience along the Alaskan Marine Highway. My family chartered bush/float planes from town to town along the Inside Passage. We saw the same two cruise ships at Skagway, Juneau, and Ketchikan.

 

[David Tallan]

It's a World Heritage site not because one can walk 800 km on foot - one can walk 800 km on foot anywhere in the world - it's a World Heritage site because of its significance in Spain's and Europe's history and because a lot of old buildings of significance for it coming into existence and development are still standing. Unesco describes the Camino de Santiago as: This serial property includes a magnificent ensemble of built heritage of historical importance created to fill the needs of pilgrims, including churches, hospitals, hostels, monasteries, calvaries, bridges, and other structures, many of which testify to the artistic and architectural evolution that occurred between the Romanesque and Baroque periods. Outstanding natural landscapes as well as a rich intangible cultural heritage also survive to the present day.

I think this is an excellent point worth considering more. There was a lot of jubilation when UNESCO first added the Camino de Santiago to the list of World heritage Sites. That wasn't done for its religious significance but for its historical, cultural and artistic significance. It is hardly becoming to rejoice at the recognition and then complain when it is followed by people looking to see the sites of cultural, artistic, and historic significance,

 

[alexwalker]

Why do we really care?

Many people start out on the Camino for a cheap (or idiotic expensive) holiday, and end up at something completely different, being transformed, repeat walkers, better humans, more reflected, getting a better life. Whatever.

Let's welcome them into the club. They do not inflict on our humble albergue lives: They stay in reserved, expensive places, away from a "normal" pilgrim's life. . And after all, they have shown interest in the/our Camino.

Give people a chance. Some day, you may share a meal with some of them in an albergue...

Edit: And if you are in the group of people relying on booking hotels along the Camino; yes, you have some competition. I doesn't inflict the rest of pilgrims at all.

 

[Linda693]

These groups are driven some part each day, then walk for a couple (1-2 hours) and then bus on. They are not competing with pilgrims for albergues, but will be pre-booked into paradors, etc. Nothing to worry about. If you see a group once, you will never meet that group again.

Edit: Relax, and enjoy your Camino.

Buen Camino!

Except you’ll deal with them waiting for coffee and food, no Bueno

 

[alexwalker]

Except you’ll deal with them waiting for coffee and food, no Bueno

Be generous. You are next in line.

 

[Anniesantiago]

À chacun ses goûts/To each his own !
I wonder if/how these separate groups will ever meet and/or share any camino experience?

One cold December day east of Melide/near O Coto on the CF I wearily stopped for a second breakfast in the patio of a rather chic, but friendly, casa rural. A small van of tourists arrived and a few hyper-tidy ‘Sunday pilgrims’ with new walking sticks exited in order to sample the trail! Spotting my pack and shell they politely asked “How long have you been walking?” “48 days!” I answered. Stunned they dashed to the bar and never moved on....

You are my Camino hero! Someday I'm going to work up the courage to do a winter Camino!

 

[Robo]

It might not be 'Tour' groups that cause concern over Pilgrim accommodation.........

This year I spent 3 days on the Frances bridging between two routes and heard (a few times) about a group of Korean Pilgrims about 90 strong who were booking out all the Albergue beds as they passed along the route.

Maybe someone with first hand experience of that could tell us more?
It must have been a big 'wave'.

 

[trecile]

This year I spent 3 days on the Frances bridging between two routes and hear (a few times) about a group of Korean Pilgrims about 90 strong who were booking out all the Albergue beds as they passed along the route.

In 2019 I was walking the same stages as 30 Irish schoolboys and their chaperones, and the group had reserved over half of the beds at the municipal albergue in Azofra. Fortunately my friend and I got beds, but many who arrived later were put in an overflow building.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Depending on the Camino tour company, some offer varying price ranges. Not all groups will be paying for the highest end tours; staying at Paradors and other high end hotels.
As @trecile witnessed, more albergues are now allowing reservations, even some of the munis, so more tour groups apparently are booking the larger ones.
In fact, on my first Camino in 2015 we had walked into a private albergue in Logrono, selected our beds and got settled in. We were later told to move our belongings to a less favorable area because a group of about a dozen bikers were due to show up later. We thankfully still had beds for the night.

 

[Kathor1]

Purely from a logical point of view (ok, my kind of logic, we've learnt recently that there are different kinds ), a group of 20 people travelling along the Camino like the NatGeo group, or a group of 90 people like those Koreans mentioned earlier, will need 20 beds resp. 90 beds. That's the same number of beds as 20 resp 90 single isolated persons travelling along the Camino will need. On days where the number of people travelling along the Camino amounts to several hundreds of persons daily in a 20-25 km section. If they sleep in bookable beds, even in establishments that call themselves albergues, it's likely to be albergues turisticos who are oriented towards peregrinos a pie but not exclusively so.

We tend to think that the Camino de Santiago is for those who walk all the time and walk on their own or in spontaneously formed groups but not in organised groups.

Well, it isn't only for those ... and the global visibility and the global popularity of the Camino to Santiago continues to increase for all kinds of people.

 

[Sue127]

That pricing is insane.

Supply and demand. If people will (can) pay, others will supply. Not my cup of tea (or my budget!)

 

[SabsP]

Except you’ll deal with them waiting for coffee and food, no Bueno

The local person behind you will not make a difference between you and the other person though.

 

[walkingagain]

My first walk on the camino was an REI tour in '19 very similar to the ad. Now in a few weeks I'm going back to walking the Camino Francés!

 

[lt56ny]

Thanks. This group is actually doing some fair walking most days. Admirable. Then being bused to their Paradors/fine hotels. Why not? But 7.000-8.000+ USD for 10 days? I could do 4 full Caminos on that budget, including flights to/from my home... Plenty of beer money too. Not to mention meeting people like me on the Way.

But if one has the money, and not the health, why not take that tour? I don't mind, and have no right to, either.

I do it my way.

I agree with you. It’s no sweat and has no effect at all on me. As my grandmother would say to me “it’s not your business”. That about sums it up. The funny thing is on a couple of occasions I twice saw different groups walking ahead with day packs and then when I caught up with the groups they were getting into vans. I thought how weird that people would be be doing this a few days out of the Sevilla on the VDLP.

 

[Esperanza]

Have forum members visited the inside? Any pictures?

I took these last year. A lovely church.
.

 

[WGroleau]

I was standing near the Irache wine fountain when a lady came up and asked me in Spanish, “I heard it was broken—do you know anything about that?” I pointed to the sign that says in English and Spanish that there are only a hundred liters a day, and answered something like "Sólo cien litros cada día; quizá se les acabaron”. She turned arond and told a small group in English “This nice gentlemen just told me that …” Then the group went in, took lots of pictures, climbed back in a large van, and they drove away.

Along the top of the tour van were painted the words “the best way to see the world is on foot.”

 

[Chizuru]

This fear and resentment of tour groups is very People Like Us. You want to reserve this experience only for PLU. Don’t forget that those who can walk a Camino like Frances, taking around 6 weeks to do so is a tiny, very privileged group. Yes, there are thousands of you but most are from the fit and retired group or the young with few commitments group.
For most of the rest they need to access the wonders of the world in tiny week long bites. They get a lovely taste of the banquet that is a Camino and God willing may live long enough to come back once they retire to do the whole thing ‘properly’. At least for them they have seen Burgos and Leon, have walked some of the way, have seen Santiago and learned some of the history of this remarkable route.
They have just as much right to access it this way as anyone else.

Perhaps the ones you should resent are those who do the Camino your way more than once, the PLU!!
PLU are the ones who will compete for beds.
PLU are the ones who have already had their fill of the feast and come back for a second and third helping.

What I am saying is that for some people a tour group is the best that they will manage and to look at them with compassion and not resentment. They have only the crumbs from the table.

 

[Corned Beef]

Saw a bus load appear outside the Parador in the Praza de Obradoiro the other day. It said Renfe / El Transcantabrico. So you can do the Norte to Santiago in luxury for $6845. (Or just under $1000 per night per person. You do get tours, travel, and meals included though)

The marketing blurb says San Sebastián, Bilbao, Villasana de Mena, Santander, Potes, Santillana del Mar, Candas, Oviedo, Gijón.

And it was full.

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[SantiagoCruzB]

This fear and resentment of tour groups is very People Like Us. You want to reserve this experience only for PLU. Don’t forget that those who can walk a Camino like Frances, taking around 6 weeks to do so is a tiny, very privileged group. Yes, there are thousands of you but most are from the fit and retired group or the young with few commitments group.
For most of the rest they need to access the wonders of the world in tiny week long bites. They get a lovely taste of the banquet that is a Camino and God willing may live long enough to come back once they retire to do the whole thing ‘properly’. At least for them they have seen Burgos and Leon, have walked some of the way, have seen Santiago and learned some of the history of this remarkable route.
They have just as much right to access it this way as anyone else.

Perhaps the ones you should resent are those who do the Camino your way more than once, the PLU!!
PLU are the ones who will compete for beds.
PLU are the ones who have already had their fill of the feast and come back for a second and third helping.

What I am saying is that for some people a tour group is the best that they will manage and to look at them with compassion and not resentment. They have only the crumbs from the table.

What I am saying is that for some people a tour group is the best that they will manage and to look at them with compassion and not resentment. They have only the crumbs from the table.

Great perspective Chizuru. I must admit there were times during the last few decades when I entertained the idea of just jumping on a tour group to do the Camino. For context, when I first thought of doing the Camino, I was still a student in the 1970s with no resources, and traveling was not as easy as it is today. Then life took over. By the time I had the resources, I had lost the time (too busy with work, family, commitments, etc) . Now I'm already in my 60s, and still relatively fit, but who knows whether I can still walk 800 km next year. Fortunately, things finally opened up in my schedule this year allowing me to walk for six weeks from Oct 2. But if this didn't happen I would probably have had to settle for the "crumbs from the table" at some point. Thanks for the insight and God bless. B

 

[dougfitz]

Perhaps the ones you should resent are those who do the Camino your way more than once, the PLU!!
PLU are the ones who will compete for beds.
PLU are the ones who have already had their fill of the feast and come back for a second and third helping.

I wonder what you mean by this. I think that it is bad enough that any member might resent anyone undertaking a pilgrimage to SDC by car or bus, but you seem to be suggesting that we should resent other walking/cycling pilgrims. Is that really what you mean?

 

[sillydoll]

Many European villages and towns had confraternities of James pilgrims that organised group walks for the town inhabitants to Santiago. It was considered much safer to walk with a group than to travel alone.
In Catherine Gasquoine's book The Story of Santiago de Compostela, she describes how groups carrying their town's banners arrived in Santiago and were directed to areas of the cathedral set aside for different nationalities. Fights often broke out when one group was given a preferred position close to the altar. Ocassionally battles broke out and when blood was spilled the church had to be cleaned and reconsecrated.
Saint Bona of Pisa led more than 9 groups to Santiago from her home town in the 12th Century and was made one of the official guides along this pilgrimage route by the Knights of Saint James. Despite being ill at the time, she attempted a tenth trip, but returned home to Pisa, dying shortly thereafter. She was cannonized in 1962 and is considered the patron saint of travellers, couriers, guides, pilgrims, flight attendants, and the city of Pisa.

 

[JesperK]

View attachment 155749
This tour ad for the general public recently appeared in the National Geographic Expeditions travel magazine. It offers trips to walk along select parts of the Camino Frances. A similar Camino Frances tour trip appeared in the recent.Backtoads travel magazine as well. At least, we shan’t expect busloads of tour groups of 55 tourists per bus descending on any of the Camino routes just yet.

Nothing wrong with that. I've done multiple caminos myself - and by coincidence, and 3 days warning became a camino guide on a group walking/bussing it from Burgos. The planned guide had gotten sick and one of the participants knew me. So off I went all expenses paid. Another guide was in charge of booking etc but knew nothing about the camino. It was 14 people, all nice and respectful people - that really got a kick out of someone saying buen camino to them.
And just if anyone is in doubt - they had the camino spirit. Never judge anyone lest ye be judged.

 

[Tincatinker]

They get a lovely taste of the banquet that is a Camino and God willing may live long enough to come back once they retire to do the whole thing ‘properly’.

You've not considered Tour Group demographics have you?

The participants are unlikely to be those young and labouring middle-agers who've parked the kids with Grandma for ten days while they soak up the essence of Camino. The smiling happy person you'll see is Grandma, spending "their" inheritance having left a note saying "your kids, you look after 'em".

I don't give a shit what "other people" do. Neither it seems do the vast majority of this community mind what "other people" do (except shit on the trail; stumble late and drunk into the Albergue or, book out three Albergues and renege on two of those bookings).

PLU? Is that People Like Us or People Like (typo)?

 

[JesperK]

I wonder what you mean by this. I think that it is bad enough that any member might resent anyone undertaking a pilgrimage to SDC by car or bus, but you seem to be suggesting that we should resent other walking/cycling pilgrims. Is that really what you mean?

I have heard that before. Like I was taking up space because I had already done a camino - why do it again?

 

[Tincatinker]

why do it again?

I'm not sure I've done it properly yet but I will keep trying

 

[JesperK]

I'm not sure I've done it properly yet but I will keep trying

I get that. Always leave a stone unturned.

I actually got mad when someone asked me, and not in a nice way "why do it again when you have already done it". But I do envy those going out for the first time.
I mean - I have been to Santiago, Rome & Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Nazareth. Where to go next. Suggestion to everyone: Try Jerusalem and you'll get a massive experience. Don't go overboard and end up with jerusalem syndrom.

 

[Chizuru]

I wonder what you mean by this. I think that it is bad enough that any member might resent anyone undertaking a pilgrimage to SDC by car or bus, but you seem to be suggesting that we should resent other walking/cycling pilgrims. Is that really what you mean?

No, I worded it poorly. I certainly don't want people to resent anyone. I was just pointing out that they don't resent or fear the people who are doing the Camino in the same way as them, who actual do compete directly for the gites and Albergues that they will stay in, so why resent those who will usually stay at totally different places and who will zoom past on busses only impacting the long walker once if at all. That they don't worry or question those who walk the Camino many times who also contribute to full beds but question the people who will get a brief taste probably only the once.

 

[Chizuru]

You've not considered Tour Group demographics have you?

The participants are unlikely to be those young and labouring middle-agers who've parked the kids with Grandma for ten days while they soak up the essence of Camino. The smiling happy person you'll see is Grandma, spending "their" inheritance having left a note saying "your kids, you look after 'em".

I don't give a shit what "other people" do. Neither it seems do the vast majority of this community mind what "other people" do (except shit on the trail; stumble late and drunk into the Albergue or, book out three Albergues and renege on two of those bookings).

PLU? Is that People Like Us or People Like (typo)?

PLU is People Like Us.
You are right about the demographics. Those who are able to be on a Camino in any way shape or form are mostly the fit retired or the young uncommitted. There are some labouring middle-aged on paid leave or sabatical but most, even in tour groups, are not. The Camino walker is a very priveleged group. Fit and healthy enough to walk for many weeks over some challenging terrain, with enough time to be away from commitments for 5 or 6 weeks and enough money to buy exorbitant airfares, be without income for 6 weeks or more, cover expenses that are back at home and those on the Camino.
If we can walk it once, we are lucky. If we can do a Camino more than once we are hugely blessed.