LIVE from the Camino Cold wave in Spain

[Felipe]

A cold wave arrived in Spain, the first in the latest three years, and will remain up to Sunday, or even Tuesday. The note (sorry, in Spanish) and a video here . The official report here.
Basically (for us), extreme weather has been registered in some places of Camino, as Carrión de los Condes (-6 C), Belorado, -6,1 and Sigüenza, -6,2.
A yellow alert (the first, lower class, from three levels) for cold has been announced in Burgos, León, Palencia, Madrid, Navarra, La Rioja, Bizkaia y Gipuzkoa (that is Basque country).
There is an orange alert in León, Palencia, Bizkaia, Gipuzkoa y Asturias for snow (up to 22 cm in mountains). Avalanches are possible in Navarra; this is the region that includes Roncesvalles and Zubiri.
The coast of Galicia will have strong winds.
Be careful, friends. And enjoy the white landscape, if you are there (and safe).

 

[JohnMcM]

Hello Felipe,
Sorry to hear about the cold wave.

Here's a nice warm and friendly wave to cheer everyone up a bit

 

[naplesdon]

I got a message from a friend in Biarritz about a snowy forecast for the weekend of 7 February 2015. It's not uncommon for the major winter blasts that speed across the upper US to hit the Spanish and French coast a few days later this time of year, example winter storm Hercules last year. I'm sure the Pyrenees are snow covered at the minute. I return to Biarritz on 20/2 and not looking forward to leaving the sunny beaches of Florida.

 

[domigee]

I received this photo today!

 

[Pelegrin]

Snow even in the Alicante province! Yes, winter arrived in Spain in February.

 

[Felipe]

Hello Felipe, Sorry to hear about the cold wave.
Here's a nice warm and friendly wave to cheer everyone up a bitView attachment 16195

Thank you John, but I am not in the Camino right now. Will be, probably, in the fall.
Actually, as I live in a city with a mild subtropical highland climate, I like very much the idea of walking in a white landscape. On the other side, cold below -5 C really give me a pause

 

[Thomas1962]

My wife is on the camino frances right now, she just arrived today at the most snowy part: near Ponferrada.
The police stopped everyone to go on towards cruce the ferro. She, together with others, had to walk back to Rabanal.
Yes there is a snowy cold wave in Spain.

 

[Al the optimist]

Well if you choose to walk in winter I suppose you have to accept the probability of not everything being rosy in the garden.

 

[Felipe]

O Cebreiro, apparently not walkable, except by the road.
http://www.crtvg.es/crtvg/camaras-web/o-cebreiro
Cold and getting worse in Burgos
http://www.catedraldeburgos.com/
Same cold in León, but a bit of sun
http://www.aytoleon.es/es/general/Paginas/webcam.aspx
Use F5 to refresh webcams.

Anyway, I'd rather be there instead...

 

[Al the optimist]

BBC News today showing atrocious snow near Santander and Brits needing recovery from snowy roads.
Edit:Oops I used the word atrocious. Ahhh! I will no doubt no be assailed by those who experience worse as an everyday part of life. To all such I humbly apologise in advance.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Hi all.
In Pamplona it's snowing now. A strong snowstorm.
Take care.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Aemet gives the snow line as down to zero mts above sea level in some places - rising to 100mts later but still with very low temperatures. I guess that parts of the Primitivo will be impassable too with the need for the snowline to be above 1500mts for the high passes to be clear.
Tineo to Grandas - the road is only passable to vehicles with chains (on wheels) so maybe no bus. Similar at Alto de Acebo so maybe no taxis.
Is anyone on the Primitivo at the moment? Take care and hope the weather soon improves.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Surely the Camino in Ibañeta may not open.
Maybe for the road in Valcarlos could be open.
Buen Camino, take care.

 

[naplesdon]

Northern Spain is on the same latitude as the northern states in the US and there are several mountain ranges which remain snow capped even in the summer. The February weather reports don't surprise me at all.

 

[naplesdon]

I recently saw a photo at the top of the forum page of a cat sitting on a windowsill. That big yellow tabby lives in O'Cebreiro. Here is another twist on that same cat from inside my bedroom where he was begging to share my bed on a very chilly and wet night last year.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Foncebadon yesterday.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

La Vecilla de Curueño, León, Spain

 

[Felipe]

Spain's Tele5 webpage presents a video report on the conditions of Camino. It is dated yesterday; I suppose the actual images could be from previous days. It shows Alto do Poio, Liñares, Alto de San Roque, Acebo. Sorry, it is in Spanish, but the images are worthwhile to see. The path is completely buried by snow, and even the paved road is sometimes not walkable. Pilgrims report that visibility is limited, and signposts difficult to see. Guarda Civil has stopped them in Acebo. Interviewed walkers seem, anyway, quite motivated and cheerful.
See http://www.telecinco.es/informativo...go-frio-temporal-peregrinos_2_1937280090.html

 

[Al the optimist]

Thanks Felipe. We stayed in Alto do Poio last September. A sunny day changed to a cold low vis misty one very quickly.

 

[angulero]

A cold wave arrived in Spain, the first in the latest three years, and will remain up to Sunday, or even Tuesday. The note (sorry, in Spanish) and a video here .

Todos los años hay alguna ola de frío en España. Con más o menos fuerza y afectando a más o menos territorio, pero es raro el año que no llegue frío a la península. Esta vez dejó algo más de nieve de lo habitual, pero nada extraordinario, al menos en esta zona. Los medios de comunicación tienden a exagerar las noticias. Eso sí, no me gustaría que me pillara una así en el camino.

Every year there is a cold wave in Spain. With more or less force and affecting more or less territory, but rare is the year that will not be cold to the mainland. This time he left more snow than usual, but nothing extraordinary, at least in this area. The media tend to exaggerate the news. Of course, I would not want one so caught me on the road.

Somiedo (Asturias)

 

[Pelegrin]

Spain's Tele5 webpage presents a video report on the conditions of Camino. It is dated yesterday; I suppose the actual images could be from previous days. It shows Alto do Poio, Liñares, Alto de San Roque, Acebo. Sorry, it is in Spanish, but the images are worthwhile to see. The path is completely buried by snow, and even the paved road is sometimes not walkable. Pilgrims report that visibility is limited, and signposts difficult to see. Guarda Civil has stopped them in Acebo. Interviewed walkers seem, anyway, quite motivated and cheerful.
See http://www.telecinco.es/informativo...go-frio-temporal-peregrinos_2_1937280090.html

From the video and their accent, I 'd say that 2 pilgrims are from Andalucia and three of them are from Brazil.
I'm specially thinking in those pilgrims from Brazil facing such severe conditions It reveals the importance of the Camino in this country.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Hi all.
Yesterday the Guardia Civil and firefighters from Valcarlos with the help of a helicopter rescue two pilgrims lost in snow, when they climb to Ibañeta.
Take care.

 

[Al the optimist]

I guess that they had not seen the weather forecast, had not asked for local advice, and not noticed the snow. Oh, and had left their brains on the plane! Every year it's the same old story, unfortunately not always with good outcomes. I admire public servants and what they do for us and I do wish stupid people would not put them at risk as well. Still, I suppose the charges will help the economy.

 

[SYates]

@Al the optimist I wish I could give you 100 likes for your post! SY

 

[Thomas1962]

I have never been rescued, but it might happen once. I hope there will be anyone rescueing me without me getting automaticaly called stupid, no brainer etc. Why these strong words? Whenever rescue is a topic, it's like there is a howling of wolves coming up again.
We all don't know what happened and why rescue was needed. Hundreds or thousends of people are on the camino these days. in general they are all fine. 2 being rescued out of 200.000 isn't bad.
We all take risks. In the meantime, approx 5 people were killed today in car accidents in Spain, about 80 a day(!) in the us. Tomorrow the same will happen, and the day after again. 1000nds will be rescued these days.
Careless?

 

[peregrina2000]

When I saw this article, http://www.diariodenavarra.es/notic..._aleman_otra_coreana_ibaneta_197033_2061.html

I thought it was the same rescue described in Mikel's post. But it's another one. It describes two pilgrims rescued near Ibaneta, luckily one had a cell phone. They are fine.

Thomas, I understand what you're saying, but what's going on is that people are heading up into the pass against the advice of everyone down below. Or maybe they're just starting out without getting anyone's advice, but in either case, I that shows some serious misjudgment. There was 60 cm of snow up there. I don't think anyone is saying that all people who need to be rescued are stupid.

The Navarra government has imposed a pretty hefty rescue fee, so at least the people who choose to ignore the advice and then live to regret it will have to reimburse the government that keeps sending rescue teams up to bring them down. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Hi peregrina 2000.
Pilgrims who I mean were two young from Barcelona.
They were badly equipped to cross the Pyrenees.
The Government of Navarra, collects if the rescue is caused by a negligence, not for an accident.
Take Care and Buen Camino.

 

[Sakami]

"The Navarra government has imposed a pretty hefty rescue fee"

New Hampshire is a popular destination for hikers and people in distress who need to be rescued is a common occurrence. Mobilizing search and rescue teams is expensive and, though I haven't rented one lately, helicopters probably cost a bundle too. The New Hampshire authorities have taken the position that rescues occasioned by negligence or egregiously poor planning will be billed to the victim. People who encounter bad luck, fall and break a limb or suffer a heart attack say, won't be pursued for payment. A new law went into effect here last month under which hikers can pay a $25 fee ($35 for a family) for a card that indemnifies them in case they have to be rescued due to negligence. People who deliberately behave recklessly or negligently will still be pursued for payment. This new law basically formalizes what has been common practice over recent years. As you can imagine, the newspapers are full of stories of people behaving in a boneheaded fashion out in the woods. The law also applies to boaters, canoeists, kayakers, snowmobiles, etc.

Interesting aspect is that people with a current hunting or fishing license, registered boat or snowmobile, etc. won't need to pay the separate $25 to Fish & Game.

So if I get into trouble on the Camino and need to be rescued, I'll just show the Navarra authorities my current New Hampshire fishing license.

Dave

 

[Mikel Olivares]

In Spain usually the people that practicing mountain sports have a mountain licence covering all contingencies. the problem is of pilgrims who don't know the mountain, and ignore the instructions of the authorities on the weather forecast. It isn't the same as having an accident in Palencia (20 € taxi) to have it in the Pyrenees, here a helicopter is needed, several vehicles rescue, dogs trained in search, many people, health, Police, Firefighters etc.
The best is to have a good travel insurance.
Luck y Buen Camino.

 

[Arn]

In Spain usually the people that practicing mountain sports have a mountain licence covering all contingencies. the problem is of pilgrims who don't know the mountain, and ignore the instructions of the authorities on the weather forecast. It isn't the same as having an accident in Palencia (20 € taxi) to have it in the Pyrenees, here a helicopter is needed, several vehicles rescue, dogs trained in search, many people, health, Police, Firefighters etc.
The best is to have a good travel insurance.
Luck y Buen Camino.

Mikel, I wholeheartedly agree with your reply, with one exception.
While I agree that travel insurance is good to have, it's best not to get into the situation in the first place.
Old Army adage: Piss poor planning prevents proper performance.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Hi Arn.
We say: "Más vale prevenir que curar"

 

[Al the optimist]

We say the same "Better safe than sorry" or "Better to prevent than cure", though the former is more used Mikel.

 

[Pelegrin]

Around 40 people die per year trying to climb the Mont Blanc.
The amount of mountaineers is 30.000 in 3 months (summer).
Mountains have always some risk and therefore the more people involved the more accidents will happen.

 

[rometimed]

Around 40 people die per year trying to climb the Mont Blanc.
The amount of mountaineers is 30.000 in 3 months (summer).
Mountains have always some risk and therefore the more people involved the more accidents will happen.

We've had at least 3 people go missing/die in the mountains just behind my house in the last 3 months here on the West Coast and they are very well marked trails. I'm always surprised at how easily people can vanish in the mountains.

 

[naplesdon]

Around 40 people die per year trying to climb the Mont Blanc.
The amount of mountaineers is 30.000 in 3 months (summer).
Mountains have always some risk and therefore the more people involved the more accidents will happen.

And your point is? My son's best friend and the world's best extreme skiers (Doug Coombs) died in an "accident" in La Grave several years ago, they were not taking chances in bad weather. It just happened these two expert skiers chose a couloir that turned out to be a 200 meter cliff.

 

[Arn]

And your point is? My son's best friend and the world's best extreme skiers (Doug Coombs) died in an "accident" in La Grave several years ago, they were not taking chances in bad weather. It just happened these two expert skiers chose a couloir that turned out to be a 200 meter cliff.

Every accident has, in the final analysis, a reason it happened.
Emperor Napoleon is by any measure a brilliant tactician, although he lost the Battle of Waterloo. Looking at the sand tables at the Invalides that Napoleon and his marshals planned many a victory, you can see a critical error in the depiction. Sadly, for Napoleon the error was transcribed onto his battle maps. What was that error, you might ask?
Wellington was positioned along a ridge line and French Marshal Ney sought to take Wellington's flank with a heavy cavalry charge. Here is the problem: at the foot of the hill was a road the French would have to cross before their formation could attack...both the sand tables and the battle maps failed to depict the road as "sunken" a ten foot drop. Thus, the overall effectiveness of the French Heavy Cavalry was blunted, in part, by poor recon of the lay of the land before the operation.
I am deeply sorry for the loss of these young men in the prime of their lives and at the top of their game.
But you said it best, thus supporting my premise:
"It just happened these two expert skiers chose a couloir that turned out to be a 200 meter cliff." Prior and complete planning can, and has, reduced the possibility of a tragic accident.

 

[Susan hopes]

Here in Chicago, the high temperature is 14F (-10C) and a low of -2F (-19C). Given my preferences, I think I'd like to stay home and hole up until the weather gets better, as opposed to traipsing up mountain passes in another country.

In weather like this, it's better to be smart than brave. I hope all our fellow pilgrims are safe and well. Stay warm everyone - no matter where you are.

 

[Thomas1962]

When I saw this article, http://www.diariodenavarra.es/notic..._aleman_otra_coreana_ibaneta_197033_2061.html

I thought it was the same rescue described in Mikel's post. But it's another one. It describes two pilgrims rescued near Ibaneta, luckily one had a cell phone. They are fine.

Thomas, I understand what you're saying, but what's going on is that people are heading up into the pass against the advice of everyone down below. Or maybe they're just starting out without getting anyone's advice, but in either case, I that shows some serious misjudgment. There was 60 cm of snow up there. I don't think anyone is saying that all people who need to be rescued are stupid.

The Navarra government has imposed a pretty hefty rescue fee, so at least the people who choose to ignore the advice and then live to regret it will have to reimburse the government that keeps sending rescue teams up to bring them down. Buen camino, Laurie

Thanks for your reply Laurie.
To who pilgrims need to go for a good advice? My experience is that there is not such a thing as 'the advice'. As far as I know there is no authority anywhere who officialy decides if it is save or not on the camino. While any mountainpass for cars wille be blocked when there is too much snow, there is no such a thing on the camino, nor barriers which will be closed down.

Two years ago I asked advice in the pilgrims office in SJPdP after I walked there from le Puy, it was in july. I was there together with my wife who walked to Roncevalles already 3 times. The advice in the office was that you HAD to leave before 8 in the morning. To leave later was absolutely irresponsible. I feel gratefull for the system of pilgrims offices and the people who work there, but I was in shock because of this absolute advice. It was a standard advice which I had to interprete what it meant for me.
I followed the advice of my experienced wife...the next morning we left at 12, had all the road for ourselves, met bored people in Orisson waiting already for hours for the next day, and arrived in Roncevalles around 19.00 after a wonderful walk. Who was where irresponsible?

Different locals will also give different advice. Although by now I did quit some camino's, I still don't know who is where 'the authority'. I also wouldn't trust on the judgment of any random policeman I meet in the street. To some people, everything is very dangerous, even starting any camino.

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, Thomas,
I agree with a lot of what you say. In fact, on another thread, I have expressed the same opinion -- that very often the locals don't know what they are talking about.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/listening-to-the-locals.19163/

But IMO there is a big difference between listening to a local when the issue is whether to cross on a mountain path that is covered in 60 cm of snow. There are no towns between Orisson and Roncesvalles, Fasgar and Colinas, Poladura and Puerto Pajares, Velilla and Cistierna, Fuente De and Portilla de la Reina, or Borres and Puerto del Palo -- you get the point. In those cases when the weather report shows the kinds of conditions that we've seen here on the forum for Ibaneta in recent weeks, I don't understand what would motivate people to start walking. The passes are closed to cars, and you think you can walk?!

I am not an experienced mountain hiker, but I know that conditions can change in a split second, you can go from sunny to black sky and inhospitable conditions in a nano-second. There's no way to avoid that kind of risk, but that is not the kind of risk that these two recent news stories describe -- they were just wilful recklessness, I think.

For the experienced mountaineer who knows his/her skill level, a different risk calculation might be reasonable, but for your average pilgrim, there is no way leaving St. Jean in those conditions was based on realistic risk assessment that took the individual's mountaineering skills into account.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Al the optimist]

Poladura and Puerto Pajares,

No way would I attempt that in snow! Tough enough anyway.

 

[naplesdon]

Thanks for your reply Laurie.
To who pilgrims need to go for a good advice? My experience is that there is not such a thing as 'the advice'. As far as I know there is no authority anywhere who officialy decides if it is save or not on the camino. While any mountainpass for cars wille be blocked when there is too much snow, there is no such a thing on the camino, nor barriers which will be closed down.

Two years ago I asked advice in the pilgrims office in SJPdP after I walked there from le Puy, it was in july. I was there together with my wife who walked to Roncevalles already 3 times. The advice in the office was that you HAD to leave before 8 in the morning. To leave later was absolutely irresponsible. I feel gratefull for the system of pilgrims offices and the people who work there, but I was in shock because of this absolute advice. It was a standard advice which I had to interprete what it meant for me.
I followed the advice of my experienced wife...the next morning we left at 12, had all the road for ourselves, met bored people in Orisson waiting already for hours for the next day, and arrived in Roncevalles around 19.00 after a wonderful walk. Who was where irresponsible?

Different locals will also give different advice. Although by now I did quit some camino's, I still don't know who is where 'the authority'. I also wouldn't trust on the judgment of any random policeman I meet in the street. To some people, everything is very dangerous, even starting any camino.

Weather forecasts are just that previsional views of what the day might have in store. High winds are a serious problem when crossing the Pyrenees and they should be heeded just like a snow warning. I walked from Orisson to Roncevalles last year in early June on a very warm, sunny day and by noon the wind created by the mountains thermals was enough to leave many people flat on their a$$es.

 

[Thomas1962]

Thanks for your reply Laurie.
To who pilgrims need to go for a good advice? My experience is that there is not such a thing as 'the advice'. As far as I know there is no authority anywhere who officialy decides if it is save or not on the camino. While any mountainpass for cars wille be blocked when there is too much snow, there is no such a thing on the camino, nor barriers which will be closed down.

Two years ago I asked advice in the pilgrims office in SJPdP after I walked there from le Puy, it was in july. I was there together with my wife who walked to Roncevalles already 3 times. The advice in the office was that you HAD to leave before 8 in the morning. To leave later was absolutely irresponsible. I feel gratefull for the system of pilgrims offices and the people who work there, but I was in shock because of this absolute advice. It was a standard advice which I had to interprete what it meant for me.
I followed the advice of my experienced wife...the next morning we left at 12, had all the road for ourselves, met bored people in Orisson waiting already for hours for the next day, and arrived in Roncevalles around 19.00 after a wonderful walk. Who was where irresponsible?

Different locals will also give different advice. Although by now I did quit some camino's, I still don't know who is where 'the authority'. I also wouldn't trust on the judgment of any random policeman I meet in the street. To some people, everything is very dangerous, even starting any camino.

I can just agree with you Laurie. I fully agree with the other tread which you started.
It is the responsability of everyone te prepare and ask around. Sometimes people (including me) do stupid things....

After this thread I think my main point probably is that I would like French and Spanish authorities to take responsability too. (with 'too' emphasized) While there are more at some days hundreds of people leaving SJPdP of going up to Fonsegrada, from which we all know that many people don't speak any word of spanish or are hardly prepared. Do we really expect just everyone to be able to judge?
It just sounds too easy for me too to let all responsability to pilgrims and let them pay the rescue. It isn't fair. It's not that difficult too make clear barriers and clear signs just outside SJPdP or any other place where needed when the risks are too high.
Probably now we both agree...

 

[SYates]

... After this thread I think my main point probably is that I would like French and Spanish authorities to take responsability too. (with 'too' emphasized) While there are more at some days hundreds of people leaving SJPdP of going up to Fonsegrada, from which we all know that many people don't speak any word of spanish or are hardly prepared. Do we really expect just everyone to be able to judge?
It just sounds too easy for me too to let all responsability to pilgrims and let them pay the rescue. It isn't fair. It's not that difficult too make clear barriers and clear signs just outside SJPdP or any other place where needed when the risks are too high....

Fonsegrada???

"It just sounds too easy for me too to let all responsibility to pilgrims ..." To whom else? It is their life at stage, so they should take responsibility for it. And yes, there are clear signs and warnings posted on the way when the Route Napoleon is closed! Buen, seguro, Camino! SY

 

[angulero]

El rescate sólo se paga en casos muy extremos , de mucha irresponsabilidad por parte del rescatado. No creo que haya muchos casos de gente que haya tenido que pagar el rescate. Si estás haciendo el camino y te pierdes no te van a cobrar el rescate. Pero si te pones a caminar, por ejemplo por el Camino Salvador, con una gran nevada como hace unos días, cuando prensa, radio y televisión, o equipos de Protección Civil y autoridades recomiendan no salir a la montaña, entonces tienes que asumir tu responsabilidad.
No sólo te pones en peligro tú, sino también a tus rescatadores.

The ransom is paid only in very extreme cases, very irresponsible of the rescued. Do not think there are many cases of people who had to pay the ransom. If you're doing and you miss the way you are not going to collect the ransom. But if you get to walk, for example by Camino Salvador, with a heavy snowfall and a few days ago, when press, radio and television, or teams of Civil Protection and authorities recommend not go to the mountain, then you have to assume your responsibility.
Not only put you in danger you but your rescuers.

http://www.eldiario.es/campobase/no...icos_Europa-Leon-helicoptero_0_296070459.html

En mi región, Asturias, sólo se ha cobrado por un rescate.

In my region, Asturias, has only been charged for a rescue.

http://www.elcomercio.es/asturias/201408/29/principado-cobra-primera-rescate-20140829005441-v.html

 

[alexwalker]

We have a few sayings at sea:

"When in doubt, act as if there is no doubt"
Meaning to not take risks at any time, but always go safe.

"When it's time to take a reef in the sails, it's too late to take a reef in the sails"
Meaning it's too late to prepare for a catastrophy when it's happening.

These rules have saved many lives at sea.

Also, it is good to have an experienced leader/person aboard. My 2 rules as a skipper/captain at sea:

Rule 1: The captain is always right.
Rule 2: If the captain isn't right after all, then Rule 1 automatically applies.

It has to do with authority, leadership, control and education.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Donde hay capitán, no manda marinero.
Where there is captain, sailor doesn't order.