Cobblestones on the Portugues

Canche · Jul 1, 2023

I live in a town of nothing but cobblestones and have fallen 3 times: broken ribs and split head open twice. I don't even walk in town which is very sad as it is a beautiful UNESCO World Heritage Site. How bad are the cobblestones on the Portugues? Are they on both routes? There are cobblestones that are filled into between the stones so one doesn't trip. I'd really like to do the Portugues but not if there are unmageanble.

dougfitz · Jul 1, 2023

I have walked the Central route from Lisbon to Santarem, and then Tomar to Santiago, and there are cobblestones in most towns and on many rural roads. It's not continuous, but I don't recall any place where there weren't cobblestones. Both the size of the stones used and the evenness of the surfaces varied widely. There are asphalt stretches in some places, and natural paths as well, but you can expect to see cobblestones most days. I cannot speak for the other routes north of Porto.

Canche · Jul 1, 2023

Thank you very much. That helps. I think I'll skip it.

Anniesantiago · Jul 2, 2023

dougfitz said:
I have walked the Central route from Lisbon to Santarem, and then Tomar to Santiago, and there are cobblestones in most towns and on many rural roads. It's not continuous, but I don't recall any place where there weren't cobblestones. Both the size of the stones used and the evenness of the surfaces varied widely. There are asphalt stretches in some places, and natural paths as well, but you can expect to see cobblestones most days. I cannot speak for the other routes north of Porto.

Yup. What Dougfitz said.
I see local women walking in 3" high heels and wonder how in the heck they do it!

Canche · Jul 2, 2023

Yeah they do that here too on the cobblestones.

lovelyshell · Jul 2, 2023

There are definitely cobblestones but it’s not the round ones so much as the square ones that do have filling around them but not always to the top so my poles would get stuck before I bought tips. I wouldn’t say they are so uneven that you would fall but my feet were definitely sore each day. This was on the central. I head the coast is all sand or boardwalk.

shefollowsshells · Jul 2, 2023

The only camino where I had an injury, the Portuguese… I had plantar fasciitis so badly I could barely walk, and cried.
Not certain what it was, I’m in the medical field and drs at home swore it was my shoes… I think the cobblestones!

Canche · Jul 2, 2023

lovelyshell said:
There are definitely cobblestones but it’s not the round ones so much as the square ones that do have filling around them but not always to the top so my poles would get stuck before I bought tips. I wouldn’t say they are so uneven that you would fall but my feet were definitely sore each day. This was on the central. I head the coast is all sand or boardwalk.

Thank you. Is it the whole distance?

Skinnybiker · Jul 2, 2023

Generally not cobble stones but setts, used a lot in Portugal, less often in Spain, presume they make for a hard wearing road surface. Messes up your arms and shoulders on a bike not your ankles.

JabbaPapa · Jul 2, 2023

The quality of the cobblestones is variable. When they've been set down within the past few months, they can be a fantastic walking surface ; but when they've become older, and the dirt, dust, and cement between the stones has gone, a fairly awful one.

Some cobblestone stretches on some portions of the Portuguese routes do have a pathway by the side of the road, whether deliberate or simply created by the passage of pilgrims -- whereas other stretches do not.

And on the Coastal north of Porto, there's a lot of boardwalk instead.

trecile · Jul 2, 2023

Canche said:
Thank you. Is it the whole distance?

Not the entire route in Portugal and virtually none after you cross over into Spain.

jungleboy · Jul 2, 2023

Cobblestones on Madeira, where I’m about to start walking tomorrow.

trecile · Jul 2, 2023

jungleboy said:
Cobblestones on Madeira, where I’m about to start walking tomorrow.

View attachment 151099

That looks horrendous!

Rickcrna · Jul 2, 2023

Hard to imagine ANY of the Camino routes being without some stretches of cobblestone surfaces especially in the towns and country roads as that is the way roads and paths were constructed in days past. If your ability to navigate your way on cobblestones is compromised enough to raise your initial concerns, you might consider forest trail hiking more suitable.

lovelyshell · Jul 2, 2023

Canche said:
Thank you. Is it the whole distance?

I only did Porto to Santiago. It was a lot of cobblestones from Porto to Tui I think. Then from there there was mostly path and a little road.

lt56ny · Jul 2, 2023

dougfitz said:
I have walked the Central route from Lisbon to Santarem, and then Tomar to Santiago, and there are cobblestones in most towns and on many rural roads. It's not continuous, but I don't recall any place where there weren't cobblestones. Both the size of the stones used and the evenness of the surfaces varied widely. There are asphalt stretches in some places, and natural paths as well, but you can expect to see cobblestones most days. I cannot speak for the other routes north of Porto.

I think this is a pretty accurate description of the amount of cobblestones. There are some areas that if you look you can walk along the path on the grass or dirt and bypass some of them but you will never escape them. Sometimes you just have to look down alot. I used my poles quite a bit on the cobblestones just as a steadying and safety precaution. Also I walked from Lisbon on the Central route all the way but it was 2017 so my memories of where and for how long the dreaded cobblestones were has faded into the sunset.

lt56ny · Jul 2, 2023

Canche said:
Thank you. Is it the whole distance?

I have lived in Mexico for over a decade and the two places I have lived are chock full of cobblestones everywhere. I would guess that the state of these roads in Mexico are about the same as Guatemala. Which means they are astoundingly horrendous, but of course you get used to it. I would say that based on my own personal experience the cobblestones paths on the Portugues make the cobblestones paths in Mexico look like you are walking almost on air. But they can still be tough and caution is definately necessary.

Friend from Barquinha · Jul 2, 2023

jungleboy said:
Cobblestones on Madeira, where I’m about to start walking tomorrow.

View attachment 151099

This is not very typical of the Portuguese pavements, overall...

Usually, they are squarish, flat stone blocks. Extremely tiring on the feet, day by day! Hard to escape. The sidewalks/pavements in most towns will be made this way.

Almost every city and town will have some ceremonial area--often the town square--where the town's symbol is reproduced in patterns of the stones. You can see from the following that many are very decorative. I recently noticed, in our town, Vila Nova da Barquinha, that the two new municipal parking spaces with chargers for electric vehicles have the "electric vehicle motif" executed in calçadas, so, contrary to the artlcle below, there still are craftspeople creating these designs.

I could do with a little less artistry and a few softer paths, myself!

Portuguese pavement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't envy you the ones in Madeira, @jungleboy! We have a few small stretches of those very old-fashioned round ones hereabouts, and they're even more problematic than the flat ones.

JabbaPapa · Jul 2, 2023

Friend from Barquinha said:
I don't envy you the ones in Madeira, @jungleboy! We have a few small stretches of those very old-fashioned round ones hereabouts, and they're even more problematic than the flat ones.

Worst I've ever come across have been in France, where they can combine those spaced cobbles with very rounded road construction.

Stuff like this is very unpleasant to walk on.

Canche · Jul 2, 2023

JabbaPapa said:
The quality of the cobblestones is variable. When they've been set down within the past few months, they can be a fantastic walking surface ; but when they've become older, and the dirt, dust, and cement between the stones has gone, a fairly awful one.

Some cobblestone stretches on some portions of the Portuguese routes do have a pathway by the side of the road, whether deliberate or simply created by the passage of pilgrims -- whereas other stretches do not.

And on the Coastal north of Porto, there's a lot of boardwalk instead.

Thank you so much.

jungleboy · Jul 2, 2023

Friend from Barquinha said:
Almost every city and town will have some ceremonial area--often the town square--where the town's symbol is reproduced in patterns of the stones.

Here in Madeira there are some lovely calçada portuguesa patterns, often featuring navigational motifs or local flora. I took this photo in Funchal today and added a fallen African tulip in the middle of the Order of Christ cross for a splash of colour:

alexwalker · Jul 2, 2023

Too much cobblestones from Porto to the Spanish border. It was very hard on my feet. Will not repeat.

The Yukon · Jul 3, 2023

When the ankles feel cobblestone, they start to stretch their horizons, and the feet, well they’re on an adventure – something between dancing and reflexology, and of course the eyes, they’re smitten by the art, a myriad of patterns and so many colours. It’s no wonder that this pilgrim has walked several Portuguese, with a smile, in both directions. A walk with texture!

habanerocat · Jul 3, 2023

These are the ones used in Portugal a lot.
They can be slippy, uneven and generally uncomfortable and dangerous.

habanerocat · Jul 3, 2023

Canche · Jul 3, 2023

habanerocat said:
These are the ones used in Portugal a lot.
They can be slippy, uneven and generally uncomfortable and dangerous.

View attachment 151220

Awful

dugavski · Jul 4, 2023

I am used to cobblestones so I didn't have problems... good shoes helped a lot.
Here are some examples of walking surface in Portugal.

Canche · Jul 4, 2023

dugavski said:
I am used to cobblestones so I didn't have problems... good shoes helped a lot.
Here are some examples of walking surface in Portugal.

Thank you so much. That really helps confirm that I probably can’t do the Portugues. i have fallen 3 times on cobblestones breaking my ribs and splitting open my head requiring stitches

JabbaPapa · Jul 4, 2023

Canche said:
Thank you so much. That really helps confirm that I probably can’t do the Portugues. i have fallen 3 times on cobblestones breaking my ribs and splitting open my head requiring stitches

Careful -- if you ask for cobblestone stories, then that is what will be given you.

There's tarmac, trail, boardwalk, cobblestone, and pavement/sidewalk.

But if cobblestones really are that bad of an issue for you -- then walk the Coastal. If tarmac is acceptable ...

Else, stick to the Francès.

Canche · Jul 4, 2023

Thank you but I hate the Frances. Tarmac is acceptable. I'll think about it. There arre 38 Caminos so I am sure I can find something for my 5th Camino. I just really want to do the Portugues. Thanks again.

JabbaPapa · Jul 4, 2023

Canche said:
Thank you but I hate the Frances. Tarmac is acceptable. I'll think about it. There arre 38 Caminos so I am sure I can find something for my 5th Camino. I just really want to do the Portugues. Thanks again.

Then do the Coastal from Porto. It's a lot more expensive day-to-day than other Caminos, but it is very beautiful.

Some cobblestones, but really quite significantly fewer compared to elsewhere in Portugal.

Canche · Jul 4, 2023

JabbaPapa said:
Then do the Coastal from Porto. It's a lot more expensive day-to-day than other Caminos, but it is very beautiful.

Some cobblestones, but really quite significantly fewer compared to elsewhere in Portugal.

Thank you.

Rickcrna · Jul 5, 2023

Just finished the Camino Portuguese via Senda Litoral/Coastal route from Porto to Santiago on May 17th and I can tell you unequivocally, that there is more than plenty of cobblestone surfaces along the way. Especially in the more urban areas and some country roads and sidewalks. My ankles and feet will back this up. For anyone phobic about cobblestone surfaces, I could not in good conscience, recommend they walk the CP.

Canche · Jul 6, 2023

Thank you so much. I have had several confirmations and I will not do it.

JabbaPapa · Jul 6, 2023

Rickcrna said:
Just finished the Camino Portuguese via Senda Litoral/Coastal route from Porto to Santiago on May 17th and I can tell you unequivocally, that there is more than plenty of cobblestone surfaces along the way. Especially in the more urban areas and some country roads and sidewalks.

Sure, but that's still significantly less than elsewhere in Portugal.

Less does not mean "none".

Canche · Jul 6, 2023

Canche said:
Thank you so much. I have had several confirmations and I will not do it.

JabbaPapa said:
Sure, but that's still significantly less than elsewhere in Portugal.

Less does not mean "none".

I understand. However, i have fallen on cobblestones too many times and hate walking on them for any length. The Pirtugues is not for me. There are 36 other Caminos. I’ll go visit Portugal though

Marcus-UK · Jul 6, 2023

Canche said:
I live in a town of nothing but cobblestones and have fallen 3 times: broken ribs and split head open twice. I don't even walk in town which is very sad as it is a beautiful UNESCO World Heritage Site. How bad are the cobblestones on the Portugues? Are they on both routes? There are cobblestones that are filled into between the stones so one doesn't trip. I'd really like to do the Portugues but not if there are unmageanble.

Most of the "cobblestones" seen in Portugal are actually flat topped granite sets infilled with course sand similar to the Pave roads seen in Belgium. They can be lethal when wet but in the dry are a good walking surface.

In parts of Spain and Portugal, natural cobblestones set in lime cement were used for paths and roads inside of towns. These can be uneven and are probably what you are thinking about. However the cobblestones on the roads had to be replaced when cars and trucks became common since the torque on the drive wheels tended to dislodge the cobbles causing damage to vehicles, property and people.

A tourist guide in Ronda once told me that the lime mortared cobblestone roads and paths were laid during the middle ages by prisoners of war, while waiting to be exchanged for ransom payments. He also said that both a high and low born prisoners had to do this and it ensured ransoms were paid promptly.

trecile · Jul 6, 2023

While I wasn't crazy about the "cobblestones" in Portugal they were easier to walk on than the extremely rocky parts of the Francés, Norte, Primitivo, or Salvador routes!

JabbaPapa · Jul 6, 2023

Canche said:
I understand. However, i have fallen on cobblestones too many times and hate walking on them for any length. The Pirtugues is not for me. There are 36 other Caminos. I’ll go visit Portugal though

OK -- gotcha, and I am very pleased to see that you are really listening and paying focused practical attention to your brethren and sistren pilgrims.

I am not a cobblestones enthusiast either.

You probably could manage a more relaxed and less "purist" Português Coastal at some point in the future, and there are usually tarmac variants at least, but clearly that's the opposite of your current wishes.

Buen Camino !!

JabbaPapa · Jul 6, 2023

trecile said:
While I wasn't crazy about the "cobblestones" in Portugal they were easier to walk on than the extremely rocky parts of the Francés, Norte, Primitivo, or Salvador routes!

Try "walking" on a sheer cliff-like hillside devastated by fire, slippery dust rather than earth, and every rock to set your foot upon liable to just jump out beneath you, every tree branch to hold onto liable to just crumble in your hands, and be reduced to crawling sideways like a crab. Oh, and I forgot the thorn bushes, each vine thicker than a knife handle to catch you during any slip into the ravine.

60 minutes to "walk" 150 metres ...

That was a part of my Português last summer ...

Cobblestones ? Solidity and flatness are wonderful !!

Canche · Jul 6, 2023

Marcus-UK said:
Most of the "cobblestones" seen in Portugal are actually flat topped granite sets infilled with course sand similar to the Pave roads seen in Belgium. They can be lethal when wet but in the dry are a good walking surface.

In parts of Spain and Portugal, natural cobblestones set in lime cement were used for paths and roads inside of towns. These can be uneven and are probably what you are thinking about. However the cobblestones on the roads had to be replaced when cars and trucks became common since the torque on the drive wheels tended to dislodge the cobbles causing damage to vehicles, property and people.

A tourist guide in Ronda once told me that the lime mortared cobblestone roads and paths were laid during the middle ages by prisoners of war, while waiting to be exchanged for ransom payments. He also said that both a high and low born prisoners had to do this and it ensured ransoms were paid promptly.

Interesting. Thank you.

beraic · Jul 9, 2023

Canche said:
I live in a town of nothing but cobblestones and have fallen 3 times: broken ribs and split head open twice. I don't even walk in town which is very sad as it is a beautiful UNESCO World Heritage Site. How bad are the cobblestones on the Portugues? Are they on both routes? There are cobblestones that are filled into between the stones so one doesn't trip. I'd really like to do the Portugues but not if there are unmageanble.

Looks like the Portuguese people love their cobblestone ways a lot.

Canche · Jul 10, 2023

beraic said:
Looks like the Portuguese people love their cobblestone ways a lot.

Here in Antigua, Guatemala as well.

alhartman · Jul 10, 2023

I walked Lisbon towards Santiago in September 2017as a 75th birthday present to myself. It was my final camino and the only one that I had to quit--because both my Achilles were 'torn'. I am sure it is my individual body structure, but I could not find a way to protect against the cobbles. Changes in insoles, ankle taping, KT taping, poles, ice etc. Nothing worked for me so I only got as far as Barcelos before I used better sense and stopped. I was a tourigrino in Santarem, Tomar, Coimbra, and Fatima. The food was great, the locals were friendly, I had just enough companions for dinner, the elevation changes manageable and I had a wonderful stay at Casa Fernanda, but I never could solve the intense pain that developed in both ankles. It took nearly 6 months after my return before I was able to walk normal distances here in the Pacific NW. My ankles have always been 'weak', I have had to tape occasionally on other caminos, and my BMI at high side 28. YMMV but it is a wonderful route. I even liked the more industrial sections leaving Lisbon.

Cobblestones on the Portugues

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