Clarification on Compostela for mixed and non-standard routes

stewinyvr · Saturday at 7:58 PM

I have a couple of questions for those of you that have changed routes after starting the Camino, and requested a Compostela. As background for my next Camino I am anticipating doing a combination of Frances and Invierno.

Per the Pilgrim Office website

“The goal of the Camino is the Tomb of the Apostle in the city of Santiago de Compostela, so the pilgrimage is made in this sense. When you set out on the pilgrimage, you choose an official route and you follow the same chosen route, without alternating or mixing pilgrimage routes.

On the Spanish language version of the website the official routes are listed as follows ( I could not find this list on the English language site).

French Way
Northern Way
Primitive Way
English Way
Fisterra – Muxia Road
Portuguese Interior
Portuguese Coastal
Via de la plata/Mozarabic
Invierno

Would I be correct in thinking that the office is not strictly adhering to these rules?

In other words, are you able to get a Compostela in the following circumstances?

When mixing routes, e.g. Frances and Invierno?
When doing another route that is not listed? e.g. Camino Sanabres

Thanks

Tincatinker · Saturday at 8:16 PM

The Invierno is on the list. Where is the problem? It would seem that all the PO is interested in is that you get there during opening hours. They won’t give a flying fig whether you started in Ultima Thule or even Uganda. The answer to their question is “Invierno”.

My 2017 Camino was a bit of a melange, see my signature, and I was told that I was supposed to make pilgrimage to Santiago and not just wander about northern Spain. We agreed, with smiles, that I had started my pilgrimage in Lugo. The meander along the Verde was disregarded.

There was a bit of a huff when I said I only required a closing sello but I got one.

I’ve not bothered the good brethren since; until this year when again my request for the closing sello caused confusion.

SYates · Saturday at 8:21 PM

Frances plus Invierno ending in Santiago will be absolutely fine. Just make sure you get two stamps per day on the last 100km ;-)
BC SY

andycohn · Saturday at 10:15 PM

As @Tincatinker and @SYates have said, it doesn't really matter where you start, or what combination of routes you walk, so long as you do the final 100k along a recognized route. (And the recognized routes include a lot more than you've listed above. When you scan the QR code on your pilgrim's passport, you'll see the others).

Where it might be confusing, however, is that in registering for the Compostela, whether through the QR code on your passport or in person at the pilgrim's office, you have to list one camino or the other as the camino you followed. You can't list both, but it doesn't really matter, since the compostela itself does not reflect the route you walked, and all they care about is that you walked the last 100k along a recognized route.

This fall, for example, my wife and I followed the Camino Baztan from Bayonne, France, to Pamplona, then walked the Frances from Pamplona to Sarria. From there, we bussed down to Monforte de Lemos and walked the last 100k on the Invierno. In the pilgrim's office -- to the extent they looked at our passports at all -- they were apparently satisfied that we had walked (somewhere) for the requisite 100k and handed over our compostelas.

However, if, after having walked a combo camino, you also want the separate distance certificate, it gets a little funky (that is, if you want the distance certificate to reflect what you actually walked). That's because, if you fill in Invierno as the camino you walked, you're then asked for the place you started, which is limited to places along the Invierno. There's no option to then enter a place along the Frances, so your distance certificate will reflect only what you walked on the Invierno. If, by contrast, you enter Frances, you can only enter starting places along the Frances, and your distance certificate will then reflect the distance along the Frances between your Frances starting point and SDC, which will be somewhat shorter than what you actually walked on the Frances and Invierno together.

We ourselves were dazed and confused by the process when we tried to register for the compostela through the QR code, since there was no option for multiple caminos or for the Camino Baztan at all. When we presented this conundrum to the powers-that-be in the pilgrim's office, explaining where we had started and where we had been, they were unfazed. Since our starting point, Bayonne, was a recognized starting place for the Norte, they simply entered Norte as the camino we had walked, even though we hadn't spent an inch on it!

None of this mattered for getting our compostela, but it did get nutty thereafter. The woman who actually gave us our compostelas, apparently impressed by our two passports full of stamps, then urged the distance certificate on us. We were happy to make the requisite 3 euro donation, but when we left the office we found ourselves to be the proud possessors of distance certificates attesting to our 874 kilometer walk on the Camino del Norte!

Maybe -- if you want the distance certificate -- you'll have better luck in explaining what you did. But if you don't care, just pick either the Frances or the Invierno as your camino, and don't get too hung up on the details.

Tincatinker · Saturday at 10:36 PM

@andycohn I your post but the tale you tell makes me

I did negotiate a Distance Certificate for the Beloved in 2017 reflecting her walk from Irun and our “wanderings”. I’m just glad it wasn’t a busy day in the PO because it was a lengthy negotiation.

andycohn · Saturday at 10:54 PM

Tincatinker said:
@andycohn I your post but the tale you tell makes me

I did negotiate a Distance Certificate for the Beloved in 2017 reflecting her walk from Irun and our “wanderings”. I’m just glad it wasn’t a busy day in the PO because it was a lengthy negotiation.

I can imagine! But the new, computerized system doesn't seem to allow for any complications. And the 2024 statistics will reflect one "extra" pilgrim on the Norte, and one less on the Frances or Invierno or Baztan (take your pick).

trecile · Sunday at 2:33 AM

andycohn said:
However, if, after having walked a combo camino, you also want the separate distance certificate, it gets a little funky (that is, if you want the distance certificate to reflect what you actually walked). That's because, if you fill in Invierno as the camino you walked, you're then asked for the place you started, which is limited to places along the Invierno. There's no option to then enter a place along the Frances, so your distance certificate will reflect only what you walked on the Invierno. If, by contrast, you enter Frances, you can only enter starting places along the Frances, and your distance certificate will then reflect the distance along the Frances between your Frances starting point and SDC, which will be somewhat shorter than what you actually walked on the Frances and Invierno together.

We ourselves were dazed and confused by the process when we tried to register for the compostela through the QR code, since there was no option for multiple caminos or for the Camino Baztan at all. When we presented this conundrum to the powers-that-be in the pilgrim's office, explaining where we had started and where we had been, they were unfazed. Since our starting point, Bayonne, was a recognized starting place for the Norte, they simply entered Norte as the camino we had walked, even though we hadn't spent an inch on it!

None of this mattered for getting our compostela, but it did get nutty thereafter. The woman who actually gave us our compostelas, apparently impressed by our two passports full of stamps, then urged the distance certificate on us. We were happy to make the requisite 3 euro donation, but when we left the office we found ourselves to be the proud possessors of distance certificates attesting to our 874 kilometer walk on the Camino del Norte!

Tincatinker said:
did negotiate a Distance Certificate for the Beloved in 2017 reflecting her walk from Irun and our “wanderings”. I’m just glad it wasn’t a busy day in the PO because it was a lengthy negotiation.

andycohn said:
I can imagine! But the new, computerized system doesn't seem to allow for any complications. And the 2024 statistics will reflect one "extra" pilgrim on the Norte, and one less on the Frances or Invierno or Baztan (take your pick).

In 2019 I asked for Distance Certificate for my continuous "combo" Camino that started at SJPdP on the Francés, then the Camino del Salvador to Oviedo, from there I walked to the Norte and finished in Santiago from the Norte. I kept track of my distance, and the volunteer in the Pilgrim Office was quite happy to record my 923 km.

However, this year after walking 943 km on the Aragonés, Francés and Invierno they worker at the PO said that he could only record one route.

David Tallan · Sunday at 2:48 AM

stewinyvr said:
I have a couple of questions for those of you that have changed routes after starting the Camino, and requested a Compostela. As background for my next Camino I am anticipating doing a combination of Frances and Invierno.

Per the Pilgrim Office website

“The goal of the Camino is the Tomb of the Apostle in the city of Santiago de Compostela, so the pilgrimage is made in this sense. When you set out on the pilgrimage, you choose an official route and you follow the same chosen route, without alternating or mixing pilgrimage routes.

On the Spanish language version of the website the official routes are listed as follows ( I could not find this list on the English language site).

French Way

Northern Way

Primitive Way

English Way

Fisterra – Muxia Road

Portuguese Interior

Portuguese Coastal

Via de la plata/Mozarabic

Invierno

Would I be correct in thinking that the office is not strictly adhering to these rules?

In other words, are you able to get a Compostela in the following circumstances?

When mixing routes, e.g. Frances and Invierno?

When doing another route that is not listed? e.g. Camino Sanabres

Thanks

I had no problem getting a Compostela last month starting on the Camino Torres (not on the list above, not available as an option on their computer system for pre-registering for your Compostela, even under Otras rutas- other routes) and then switching to the Caminho da Geira e dos Arrieiros (not on the list above but on the online system to pre-register for your Compostela). I had no problem last year getting a Compostela starting on the Camino de Madrid (not on the list above), joining the Frances but then switching to the San Salvador and then the Primitivo.

I think you should have no issues in either scenario above.

If you are really concerned, make sure your last 100 km is continuous on one of the listed routes. What you do before that doesn't really count for the Compostela, just for the Distance Certificate, if you choose to purchase one.

David Tallan · Sunday at 2:52 AM

trecile said:
In 2019 I asked for Distance Certificate for my continuous "combo" Camino that started at SJPdP on the Francés, then the Camino del Salvador to Oviedo, from there I walked to the Norte and finished in Santiago from the Norte. I kept track of my distance, and the volunteer in the Pilgrim Office was quite happy to record my 923 km.

However, this year after walking 943 km on the Aragonés, Francés and Invierno they worker at the PO said that he could only record one route.

It may depend on whom you get. When I walked the Torres and CGA last month, the volunteer was happy to take the 630 km distance I gave him and record both Otro Camino and the CGA on the Distance Certificate (Otro Camino for the Torres which wasn't in the system). So the software allows for two.

trecile · Sunday at 3:20 AM

David Tallan said:
It may depend on whom you get. When I walked the Torres and CGA last month, the volunteer was happy to take the 630 km distance I gave him and record both Otro Camino and the CGA on the Distance Certificate (Otro Camino for the Torres which wasn't in the system). So the software allows for two.

Yes, I probably could have asked for a supervisor, but it wasn't really worth it for me. In 2019 the volunteer looked confused when I asked for my Francés-Salvador-Norte Distance Certificate, and relieved when I told him that I had tracked the distance myself.

Camino Chrissy · Sunday at 3:45 AM

andycohn said:
The woman who actually gave us our compostelas, apparently impressed by our two passports full of stamps, then urged the distance certificate on us. We were happy to make the requisite 3 euro donation, but when we left the office we found ourselves to be the proud possessors of distance certificates attesting to our 874 kilometer walk on the Camino del Norte!

This is similar to what I wrote on a different thread earlier today. I was also "urged" to get a distance certificate for a mere €3 donation last spring. The computer printout showed I walked the Sanabres from Ourense, the 100 km minimum requirement, not from Rionegro del Puente where I actually had walked from; an additional 160 km. It shouldn't have been a problem calculating distance as I wasn't doing a combo Camino. I didn't really care about the inaccuracy, but I did mention it and was given a shoulder shrug so I accepted it and left. I think their computer system probably only has pre-set distances for many of the routes, so it seems it will be a bigger task to check the sellos according to the new rule. Many credentials may now possibly need to be scrutinized closer and entered manually for both the Compostela and distance certificate.

trecile · Sunday at 3:57 AM

Camino Chrissy said:
This is similar to what I wrote on a different thread earlier today. I was also "urged" to get a distance certificate for a mere €3 donation last spring. The computer printout showed I walked the Sanabres from Ourense, the 100 km minimum requirement, not from Rionegro del Puente where I actually had walked from; an additional 160 km

It's certainly annoying to pay for a distance certificate that doesn't accurately reflect the distance that you actually walked!

Camino Chrissy · Sunday at 4:12 AM

trecile said:
It's certainly annoying to pay for a distance certificate that doesn't accurately reflect the distance that you actually walked!

I didn't mind paying the small donation for the Distance Certificate at all. I was just surprised it didn't reflect the true kilometers, even though it was not a long camino.
My Distance Certificate for walking every step from SJPdP showed it as 799 km. I found that humorous because it is always stated as being an "800 km walk".

JabbaPapa · Sunday at 4:37 AM

andycohn said:
As @Tincatinker and @SYates have said, it doesn't really matter where you start, or what combination of routes you walk, so long as you do the final 100k along a recognized route. (And the recognized routes include a lot more than you've listed above. When you scan the QR code on your pilgrim's passport, you'll see the others).

Well actually this is somewhat up in the air at the moment -- as the Canon of the Cathedral has stated in an interview with the American Pilgrims Association that the 100K requirement has been changed to at least 100K on any Camino Way with at least one final stage ending in Santiago.

There has been no official communication concerning this ; however the Canon has the ... er ... Canon Law Authority to make such a change in the recognition conditions in the Pilgrim Office that is under his day-to-day Authority.

But anyway, if someone is planning to walk at least 100K continuously into Santiago as according to the previous rules, then whichever hodge-podge of routes have been walked previously will be irrelevant as always.

-------

Otherwise it seems that the long-rumoured change to a 2 stamps/day rule along the whole of one's Camino (unless impossible), and not just a final 100K/200K, is now in the process of being implemented.

t2andreo · Sunday at 6:37 PM

SYates said:
Frances plus Invierno ending in Santiago will be absolutely fine. Just make sure you get two stamps per day on the last 100km ;-)
BC SY

In this case, the last segment on the Invierno is from Monforte de Lemos, or so. This is about 130 km out from Santiago, but I started two stamps per day there, to be on the safe side.

bullingtonce · Sunday at 6:44 PM

stewinyvr said:
I have a couple of questions for those of you that have changed routes after starting the Camino, and requested a Compostela. As background for my next Camino I am anticipating doing a combination of Frances and Invierno.

Per the Pilgrim Office website

“The goal of the Camino is the Tomb of the Apostle in the city of Santiago de Compostela, so the pilgrimage is made in this sense. When you set out on the pilgrimage, you choose an official route and you follow the same chosen route, without alternating or mixing pilgrimage routes.

On the Spanish language version of the website the official routes are listed as follows ( I could not find this list on the English language site).

French Way

Northern Way

Primitive Way

English Way

Fisterra – Muxia Road

Portuguese Interior

Portuguese Coastal

Via de la plata/Mozarabic

Invierno

Would I be correct in thinking that the office is not strictly adhering to these rules?

In other words, are you able to get a Compostela in the following circumstances?

When mixing routes, e.g. Frances and Invierno?

When doing another route that is not listed? e.g. Camino Sanabres

Thanks

Well, I would urge caution as there is a rumor, not confirmed, that God, at times, is OCD. He may be OCD in this matter so . . .
Chuck

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Clarification on Compostela for mixed and non-standard routes

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