Camino Portuguese - the feminine way?

[Zarine Roodt (SA)]

I read this in an old post:
While the French way is a masculine way the sun's path, the Portuguese way is a feminine way, path of the moon. More spiritual. (Vitor Adrião)
Can anyone shed more light on this statement and its source?

 

[SabsP]

I do not believe in these kind of theories really.Spirituality can be found everywhere even on an industrial estate walking into Burgos.
The beauty of a pilgrimage is that it overcomes gender, class and background, professional and financial status.
Whatever Camino one chooses : to me it is about kindness and respect.

 

[Zarine Roodt (SA)]

I agree wholeheartedly with your views. My reason for raising the question is an academic one: I am doing informal research on "the feminine way" and that is why I would like some more information ...

 

[SabsP]

I agree wholeheartedly with your views. My reason for raising the question is an academic one: I am doing informal research on "the feminine way" and that is why I would like some more information ...

Please would you read then this very good recent post.
I believe many posters prefer some transparency when we are asked to participate in surveys and academic research.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/surveys-security-and-wanting-to-help.56538/

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is like the theory that the Camino Frances is under the Milky Way. The Camino runs west pretty exactly (that is why you can leave your compass at home). The Milky Way is in the southern atmosphere, and is diagonal to the E-W line as it moves across the sky. Every celestial body rises in the east and sets in the west, so perhaps in that sense the Camino is under the Milky Way as it rises in the east and sets in the west (sort of)!

Pilgrims are now evenly divided between men and women. Perhaps that is the celestial mandate...

 

[MinaKamina]

I read this in an old post:
While the French way is a masculine way the sun's path, the Portuguese way is a feminine way, path of the moon. More spiritual. (Vitor Adrião)
Can anyone shed more light on this statement and its source?

The source is what it says between brackets: Vitor Adrião

BTW he is male.

 

[Zarine Roodt (SA)]

Please would you read then this very good recent post.
I believe many posters prefer some transparency when we are asked to participate in surveys and academic research.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/surveys-security-and-wanting-to-help.56538/

I think there is a misunderstanding, or even some confusion, here. I am not asking anyone to participate in a survey or academic research. I merely asked members of this forum if they are aware of this view and where it might have originated.

 

[Zarine Roodt (SA)]

The source is what it says between brackets: Vitor Adrião

BTW he is male.

Thank you. I have picked up on him on Facebook and will message him there.

 

[SabsP]

I think there is a misunderstanding, or even some confusion, here. I am not asking anyone to participate in a survey or academic research. I merely asked members of this forum if they are aware of this view and where it might have originated.

Might be because I did a google search for your name and found you are active in an academic environment.

 

[Scott...O]

I read this in an old post:
While the French way is a masculine way the sun's path, the Portuguese way is a feminine way, path of the moon. More spiritual. (Vitor Adrião)
Can anyone shed more light on this statement and its source?

I can’t help explain the statement, but it does cause me a little confusion...
If you could describe the French Way as generally East to West, you might also describe the Portuguese Way as generally South to North.
I don’t know if its the same in all parts of the world, or (more importantly) in Spain & Portugal, but where I live the (very unscientific) perceived arcs of the Sun & the Moon, when viewed from Earth, are both roughly the same: i.e. they both rise (more or less) in the East, and set (more or less) in the West.
Which is all a long-winded way of asking: ‘aren’t the paths of the Sun and the Moon roughly the same’?
So how is the Portuguese Way (running South to North) meant to follow the path of the moon (regardless of any artificially ascribed concept of gender)?
Or am I misinterpreting the statement?

 

[hecate105]

There is some info about this in a book called 'Rosslyn' - i forget the author's name. But there are hints to a pre-christian 'pilgrimage' or 'route of initiation' sometimes known as 'Camino de las Estrellas' .... all very intriguing...
A great subject to research - if you do a paper or anything be sure to post about it on here - there are a few closet/or not pagans who would be interested....

 

[Pink Girl]

I also don’t have information on this, but would be very interested in knowing more

 

[chinacat]

There is some info about this in a book called 'Rosslyn' - i forget the author's name. But there are hints to a pre-christian 'pilgrimage' or 'route of initiation' sometimes known as 'Camino de las Estrellas' .... all very intriguing...
A great subject to research - if you do a paper or anything be sure to post about it on here - there are a few closet/or not pagans who would be interested....

Is this the book?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1862047421/?tag=casaivar-21

Rosslyn is a facinating place ... and the history of the Knights Templar has many links with the Camino.

 

[Tincatinker]

Given that Rosslyn was founded in 1446 and the suppression of the Templars occurred in 1307 it seems to me unlikely that they had much to do with the place. Dan Brown writes a good story but shite history. Tim Wallace-Murphy and Marilyn Hopkins seem to have relied on Brown and some enthusiastic interpretations of iconography for much of their research.
The scant archeological evidence available suggest that the 'Beaker Folk' who emerged to dominate much of Europe in the cusp of the Bronze / Iron age transported the cremated remains of their dead to Galicia, Western Ireland, Western Britain and the western outer Scottish islands. Only they and the gods know why. But there appears to be some association between the passing of life and the passing of the sun.

The passing of the Templars had little to do with the gods and much to do with Mammon. The French King and the Pope of the time were both short of cash and yet ambitious. I think that if either had any real belief that the Templars held the Grail they would have found another way to those fortunes than hanging, drawing, quartering and burning. Most rational, God-fearing, monarchs or Pontifs would be unlikely to take on the Blessed.

As to the OP - there are many romantic interpretations of Camino, but there is only one Way IMO

 

[chinacat]

@Tincatinker

I’ve never read anything by Dan Brown and I haven’t read “Rosslyn” .... I simply looked on Amazon

But there are said to be Templar connections to Rosslyn Chapel ... long after the events of 1307.

Philip IV of France seems to have stolen the march on Clement V ... but it was indeed his and the Pope’s greed that caused the Templars’ downfall.

 

[Tincatinker]

Hence my perhaps flippant remarks on iconography. I am not aware of any links between Rosslyn and the Templars other than the use of Templar iconography in the decoration of the Rosslyn chapel. By 1446 all that was left of the Templar structures was the memory, the growing legends and the symbolic stonework.

I've never seen a citable Templar reference to Rosslyn but I'd be chuffed as nuts if you could point me to one.

 

[chinacat]

Hence my perhaps flippant remarks on iconography. I am not aware of any links between Rosslyn and the Templars other than the use of Templar iconography in the decoration of the Rosslyn chapel. By 1446 all that was left of the Templar structures was the memory, the growing legends and the symbolic stonework.

I've never seen a citable Templar reference to Rosslyn but I'd be chuffed as nuts if you could point me to one.

You seem to know something about the authors .... have you read them?

It will take me a while to find my references .... I will look, and send you a PM with it/them. This thread might be in the vaults by the time I find them!
They are ‘hard copy’ ... books, articles ... not digital.

What you say about the ‘structures’ is interesting. There are people who research the Templars today .... genuine researchers, who have no connection to/respect for the likes of Dan Brown .... who seek evidence of their continuing existence, without their structures. They were founded on spiritual grounds .... many such ‘groups’ have continued to exist, despite persecution and the annihilation of their structures.

 

[hecate105]

Hear hear Chinacat, and yes - that is the book... I read it as i was visiting Scotland - but found it contained lots of interesting info on other places throughout Europe - including many places that can be visited whilst following a later 'religeous' pilgrimage route... There seem to be many places important to ancient folk which still attract attention today.... How many of us believe the actual bones of St James are in the crypt at Santiago i wonder...and that is within written historical times.... Belief is a subjective personal thing... imho!!

 

[Rex]

Don't know about the Rosslyn connection, but when in Tomar, a Templar city on the CP (and a World Heritage Site), I read several accounts of how Dinis I, King of Portugal in 1317, created the Order of Christ for all the surviving Templars (of which there were many who had fled to various places, including Portugal), and the Templars continued to be warrior merchants, building churches and benefitting from much of the trading that arose from the exploits of Portuguese naval explorers. The OC was eventually led by Henry the Navigator and other Portuguese royal family members. Portugal fully embraced the Templars and got around Clement V's persecution, and decree to dissolve the order, by simply renaming them and taking them under the protective wing of the Portuguese monarchy. Lots of Templar/OC history on the CP, particularly from Lisboa to Coimbra.