Camino Portugues - Who is in charge now (path maintenance, organization)?

[phagocyte]

Dear Camino friends,

you might know that unfortunately the Associação de Amigos dos Caminhos de Fátima, who were taking care of the Caminho Portuguese for over 13 years, stopped their work due to official "tourism projects" who kept changing the path.

My question now: Does anybody has a contact/ knows who or which official organization/ office will be in charge for the Camino Portuguese (Central)?

Any kind of contact/hints etc would be very helpful and much appreciated!
Thanks a lot in advance! Obrigada!

Bom Caminho
äly

 

[Former member 22438]

Ask Aurélio Simoēs from Lisbon, forum member here.
if you do not succeed, send me a PM
I am in regular contact with him via Whatsapp

 

[phagocyte]

Ask Aurélio Simoēs from Lisbon, forum member here.
if you do not succeed, send me a PM
I am in regular contact with him via Whatsapp

Dear Albertinho,
thanks a lot! Very much appreciated.
Best,
äly

 

[peregrina2000]

Dear Camino friends,

you might know that unfortunately the Associação de Amigos dos Caminhos de Fátima, who were taking care of the Caminho Portuguese for over 13 years, stopped their work due to official "tourism projects" who kept changing the path.

My question now: Does anybody has a contact/ knows who or which official organization/ office will be in charge for the Camino Portuguese (Central)?

Any kind of contact/hints etc would be very helpful and much appreciated!
Thanks a lot in advance! Obrigada!

Bom Caminho
äly

These are my impressions, but I’m an outsider, so who knows what the ”real story” is.

The Fátima friends did a lot of work on the Camino, but they were never “in charge” of things, nor did they purport to be. And their focus, obviously, was not primarily the Caminho to Santiago, but the Caminho to Fátima. The Via Lusitana,which is the Lisbon friends association of the Caminho to Santiago, is the group that took on the task of marking up to Porto, working with the towns along the way, and running the albergue in Alpriate. They are a volunteer association. They also have no real “power” to be “in charge”, but they have been extremely important in fomenting interest and getting things going. They are the ones who got the beautiful credentials approved, produced and distributed.

For years, the Spanish Galician amigos association took care of things north of Porto, but I don’t know if they are still doing that with the increase in local organizations and interest.

The central government and regional tourism offices have also taken on an interest in marking caminos all throughout Portugal, and from what I read, they are part of the impetus behind the routes from Tavira and Faro that @jungleboy has written about and walked.

I would say that, south of Porto at least, the Fátima group, the Via Lusitana, and the official government offices (both regional tourism offices and local municipal governments) lurched along until a defining moment in which the conflicts could not be smoothed out, and the Fátima group disbanded.

So I guess this is like most caminos — some volunteer organizations, some official government offices work together (or not) to mark the route (with occasional disagreements about where the routes should go, at which point local economic interests kick in).

 

[camino.ninja]

Dear Camino friends,

you might know that unfortunately the Associação de Amigos dos Caminhos de Fátima, who were taking care of the Caminho Portuguese for over 13 years, stopped their work due to official "tourism projects" who kept changing the path.

My question now: Does anybody has a contact/ knows who or which official organization/ office will be in charge for the Camino Portuguese (Central)?

Any kind of contact/hints etc would be very helpful and much appreciated!
Thanks a lot in advance! Obrigada!

Bom Caminho
äly

In addition to what @peregrina2000 said, there is a federation (https://fpcsantiago.pt/) in Portugal being responsible for making the routes official / UNESCO heritage.

And then you have Jose Luis from Via Lusitana (https://www.vialusitana.org/) being the president of the association of associations (https://rapp.pt/) in Portugal. It is true they do not have any formal power and also only representing the associations. But they are organising and making common guidelines for their work.

So, it depends a little bit what your official business is about.

And also, the routes from Porto and on is maintained by the Municipal and Tourism Office in Porto with fundings from the EU. And Viana do Castelo, Barcelos etc. is responsible for their areas. They do not have regions as legal entities in Portugal as they do in Spain. So there is nothing like Xunta de Galicia taking care of the camino based on the region like in Spain.

Best
Andy

 

[dougfitz]

In addition to what @peregrina2000 said, there is a federation (https://fpcsantiago.pt/) in Portugal being responsible for making the routes official / UNESCO heritage.

And then you have Jose Luis from Via Lusitana (https://www.vialusitana.org/) being the president of the association of associations (https://rapp.pt/) in Portugal. It is true they do not have any formal power and also only representing the associations. But they are organising and making common guidelines for their work.

So, it depends a little bit what your official business is about.

And also, the routes from Porto and on is maintained by the Municipal and Tourism Office in Porto with fundings from the EU. And Viana do Castelo, Barcelos etc. is responsible for their areas. They do not have regions as legal entities in Portugal as they do in Spain. So there is nothing like Xunta de Galicia taking care of the camino based on the region like in Spain.

Best
Andy

Thanks for that explanation. I don't know that I completely understand this, but this does reduce some of my confusion.

 

[camino.ninja]

Thanks for that explanation. I don't know that I completely understand this, but this does reduce some of my confusion.

It is confusing. But means the tourist office in Porto is mainly defining the paths and they are not asking anyone if what they do is right or wrong.

That’s probably why the association the OP mentioned decided to close themselves.

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

I know in our concelho (equivalent of municipality), there has been public money spent on marking the "official" path from Golega (the next municipality south), north to the woods south of Tomar (the next municipality north).

Funds have gone to the new concrete/tile standard waymarker signage, and to some large informational signs--the content of which is up for debate--they highlight the usual tourist/cultural/historical features in the municipality, most of which are off the caminho trail and of dubious value to the average peregrino. The signs also don't include information like cafés and shops along the way, which I would think would be useful. But they're a start, I guess.

They also have rehabilitated the bench/water fountain at our roundabout, which is definitely useful to the peregrinos! And one up at Atalaia, as well, I think. All the water is potable in this area.

I think the funding for this is split between the regional tourist office, which has decided that caminho tourism is a "thing," and our local government.

But no-one is "in charge," as far as I can tell. They can signpost where they want, but the peregrinos create the caminho.

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

In addition to what @peregrina2000 said, there is a federation (https://fpcsantiago.pt/) in Portugal being responsible for making the routes official / UNESCO heritage.

Tomar seems to be the only municipality in the Ribatejo district (south-central) that is part of this federation.

Their link page, though in Portuguese, is useful because it has a nice local map and lists various accommodation including two low-costs albergues, one of which, Albergue de Calvinos in Calvinos (Casais e Alviobeira) north of Tomar, I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere on the forum, I don't think.

Their information says the new one in Assiceira is closed for the moment, which is a pity!

Caminho de Santiago

O Caminho de Santiago, ao longo da Idade Média foi percorrido por povos oriundos de toda a Cristandade, o que permitiu a circulação e difusão de ideias, usos e costumes. O seu papel na construção de uma cultura europeia é inquestionável. De todos os caminhos de Santiago, o Caminho Fra

www.cm-tomar.pt

 

[camino.ninja]

Tomar seems to be the only municipality in the Ribatejo district (south-central) that is part of this federation.

Their link page, though in Portuguese, is useful because it has a nice local map and lists various accommodation including two low-costs albergues, one of which, Albergue de Calvinos in Calvinos (Casais e Alviobeira) north of Tomar, I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere on the forum, I don't think.

Their information says the new one in Assiceira is closed for the moment, which is a pity!

Caminho de Santiago

O Caminho de Santiago, ao longo da Idade Média foi percorrido por povos oriundos de toda a Cristandade, o que permitiu a circulação e difusão de ideias, usos e costumes. O seu papel na construção de uma cultura europeia é inquestionável. De todos os caminhos de Santiago, o Caminho Fra

www.cm-tomar.pt

Do you know if the Albergue de Calvinos is open?

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

Do you know if the Albergue de Calvinos is open?

No idea! It looks like a fairly small town, with just a private person's phone number to call, for space. And I would guess that person doesn't speak English, based on my experience in small-town Portugal. It says "Gerido pela Associação Recreativa e Cultural de Calvinos," which means "managed by the Recreation and Cultural Asssociation of Calvinos," so likely it's some beds in their quite small recreation centre.

Note that it also says "6€/noite e por pax com banho e não inclui lençóis, toalhas e nem pequeno almoço," which I take to mean "6 euros a night with a bathroom but not including sheets, towels or breakfast," so it's similar to staying with the volunteer firemen, pretty bare-bones.

My suggestion would be to contact the Tomar tourist office and have them call. They're likely to have someone on-hand who DOES speak good English, and they're responsible for the information on their website and would likely be helpful.

Posto de Turismo de Tomar: (351) 249-329-823 (local phone number; if you're in the area, the 351 is not necessary); turismo@cm-tomar.pt

(from their page within that federation website: https://fpcsantiago.pt/municipio-de-tomar/)

 

[phagocyte]

These are my impressions, but I’m an outsider, so who knows what the ”real story” is.

The Fátima friends did a lot of work on the Camino, but they were never “in charge” of things, nor did they purport to be. And their focus, obviously, was not primarily the Caminho to Santiago, but the Caminho to Fátima. The Via Lusitana,which is the Lisbon friends association of the Caminho to Santiago, is the group that took on the task of marking up to Porto, working with the towns along the way, and running the albergue in Alpriate. They are a volunteer association. They also have no real “power” to be “in charge”, but they have been extremely important in fomenting interest and getting things going. They are the ones who got the beautiful credentials approved, produced and distributed.

For years, the Spanish Galician amigos association took care of things north of Porto, but I don’t know if they are still doing that with the increase in local organizations and interest.

The central government and regional tourism offices have also taken on an interest in marking caminos all throughout Portugal, and from what I read, they are part of the impetus behind the routes from Tavira and Faro that @jungleboy has written about and walked.

I would say that, south of Porto at least, the Fátima group, the Via Lusitana, and the official government offices (both regional tourism offices and local municipal governments) lurched along until a defining moment in which the conflicts could not be smoothed out, and the Fátima group disbanded.

So I guess this is like most caminos — some volunteer organizations, some official government offices work together (or not) to mark the route (with occasional disagreements about where the routes should go, at which point local economic interests kick in).

Dear peregrina2000,

thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! That is really great and helpful!
Very much appreciate the time and effort you made to reply!

From there on I can totally ask further!

Best,
äly

 

[phagocyte]

In addition to what @peregrina2000 said, there is a federation (https://fpcsantiago.pt/) in Portugal being responsible for making the routes official / UNESCO heritage.

And then you have Jose Luis from Via Lusitana (https://www.vialusitana.org/) being the president of the association of associations (https://rapp.pt/) in Portugal. It is true they do not have any formal power and also only representing the associations. But they are organising and making common guidelines for their work.

So, it depends a little bit what your official business is about.

And also, the routes from Porto and on is maintained by the Municipal and Tourism Office in Porto with fundings from the EU. And Viana do Castelo, Barcelos etc. is responsible for their areas. They do not have regions as legal entities in Portugal as they do in Spain. So there is nothing like Xunta de Galicia taking care of the camino based on the region like in Spain.

Best
Andy

Hi Andy,

thanks a lot for your important add ons!
Great to have contacts and the links, thanks a lot!

Best,
äly

 

[phagocyte]

I know in our concelho (equivalent of municipality), there has been public money spent on marking the "official" path from Golega (the next municipality south), north to the woods south of Tomar (the next municipality north).

Funds have gone to the new concrete/tile standard waymarker signage, and to some large informational signs--the content of which is up for debate--they highlight the usual tourist/cultural/historical features in the municipality, most of which are off the caminho trail and of dubious value to the average peregrino. The signs also don't include information like cafés and shops along the way, which I would think would be useful. But they're a start, I guess.

They also have rehabilitated the bench/water fountain at our roundabout, which is definitely useful to the peregrinos! And one up at Atalaia, as well, I think. All the water is potable in this area.

I think the funding for this is split between the regional tourist office, which has decided that caminho tourism is a "thing," and our local government.

But no-one is "in charge," as far as I can tell. They can signpost where they want, but the peregrinos create the caminho.

Dear Friend of Barquinha,

thanks a lot for the "inside infos".
I unfortunately heard that some parts got confusing due to different routes.
I guess that is what happens when many cooks trying to cook a soup (if you know the saying ).

Best,
äly

 

[phagocyte]

Thanks a lot for the infos, that is really helpful!

Maybe one more question: If I am interested in the part of the Caminho around Vila Nova da Rainha and Sao Joao da Madeira, which tourism office would you contact? Assuming not all of that goes to Porto?

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/lisboa-porto-where-are-albergues-missing-which-part-has-too-little-frequency-or-closed-albergues.73618/

Best,
äly

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

Dear Friend of Barquinha,

thanks a lot for the "inside infos".
I unfortunately heard that some parts got confusing due to different routes.
I guess that is what happens when many cooks trying to cook a soup (if you know the saying ).

Best,
äly

You're welcome, Aly. I think our area is quite straightforward. The irony is, from everything I've read, and a bit I've observed with local walks, the route peregrinos use now is not the traditional route.

(Detour in thread for historical info)

I suspect that pilgrims from Lisbon, before the 20th century, took the now-abandoned main drive heading northeast, lined with huge trees, from the Quinta da Cardiga north of Golega, onto a road that now is a scarey and unwalkable highway, the IC3, which runs between Entroncamento and the western outskirts of Barquinha and then past Atalaia on the west, heading north. (There actually is a tiny bit of Atalaia, just a few houses, that is west of the IC3 because the division between towns happened before the highway was completed.)

In earlier days, before the IC3 obliterated an old road underneath, the caminho followed this earlier road straight north to Atalaia, bypassing Barquinha entirely. Indeed, Atalaia, with its "mother church," is a much older town than Barquinha, as is the Quinta da Cardiga. The stone tower embedded in the QdC dates back to the 1200s/1300s, and is one of the Templar towers that protected the north side of the Tejo as the edge of the Christian northern half of Iberia, up to the Reconquista at the end of the 1400s. The Quinta was built around the tower much later--in the 17th century or so.

The Quinta da Cardiga is one of the favourite spots for Portuguese techies to fly drones and take video: here's one of them: