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Camino Frances and its 3 Phases: Are there any other routes that match the same physical/mental/spiritual journey?

JustJack

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Time of past OR future Camino
CF: May/June 2023
VDLP: April/May 2024
My first introduction to the Camino (Francis) was a youtube video shot a number of years ago by a relatively young guy. In it he and others he meets talk a lot about the three phases or stages or challenges many people go through while walking a camino, especially their first: Physical followed by Mental, followed by Spiritual.

What I love about the Camino Francis, and why I've chosen that as my first camino, is how its physical geography seems to facilitate and enhance the passage of these stages.
  • I love how when starting from SJPdP the first day is a long uphill slog. I think this is the perfect way to commence, for a number of reasons.
  • I love how the first week or so is spent adjusting to the daily routine and getting your body accustomed to walking every day.
  • I love how the physical difficulties of walking every day start to dissipate right around the time you reach the Meseta, leaving your mind free to focus on things other than the physical pain or jaw-dropping views.
  • I love how the Meseta stretches on for so many kilometers, giving you ample time alone with your thoughts (for better or worse!), and not distracting you with difficult climbs or spectacular views. I know the reviews of this section are mixed, but it's the part I'm most looking forward to.
  • I'm not yet sure what I love about the third stage, as I'm not a spiritual person. But I'm confident I will find a reason to love that third stage when the time comes.
It feels like the Camino Francis was specifically designed to match the geography/topography with the pilgrim's own physical/mental/spiritual journey. How cool is that?

Just curious if any of the other camino routes accomplish this in the same way?
 
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The 1,500 kms from Le Puy provide an enhanced version of what you are thinking.

Then if you subsequently do other Caminos through varied routes, the "mind" process continues until you finish in a rocking chair reminiscing about the good times you had whilst you were able to walk.
 
Usually such ideal situations are cognitive impositions that shoehorn an experience to fit a narrative. One can accomplish it almost anywhere, technically speaking. Some of us cannot accomplish it just anywhere. Much as I like to do day-hikes in North America, I do not find them edifying, and can find them stultifying in a way. But that's just me. I read a fantastic log/memoir by a Canadian geographer, Eric Shoalts, who canoed "backward" (i.e., against eh current) for 5000 km from Yellowknife to the top of Hudson Bay. I found his story compelling, but I know I could neither have accomplished the feat, nor related it in an interesting and edifying manner.
I have found each of 3 camino, on different paths, very satisfying, and I have every expectation that the Norte in April with be just as satisfying. 3 stages? That's just a narrative convention, appealing, but not required for a very deep experience.
Separating the "spiritual" from the "mental" seems to be a game of semantics on many days... and whether the Galician mountains are less physically challenging than Saint-Jean to... where?... Pamplona? Estella? Burgos? is certainly up for question in my books. Many a pilgrim hobbles from Leon to Santiago.
 
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The third stage (spiritual) may occur as you get nearer to Santiago.

I experienced it on my first camino, the Portuguese.

After 3 weeks of walking from Lisbon, and about one week short of Santiago, I suddenly stopped in my tracks.

I guess I must have been through the first physical phase; got into a rhythm with the mental phase; and had now suddenly realised that, hang on! there must be something more to this.

It hit me, head on, that I wasn’t on a “long hike”, I was on a pilgrimage.

This was before I’d heard of the three stages.
 


Exactly!
A story I already told on this forum :
I sincerely believe that my grandmother who went by bus ( pensioned group of senior ladies ) to a local pilgrimage place and merely walked 200 meters from the parkinglot to the church was a truer pilgrim ( deeper experience ) than I will ever be.
 
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JustJack said:
What I love about the Camino Francis, and why I've chosen that as my first camino
Click to expand...
Hi @JustJack, let me just double check: You are talking about what you love about the Camino Frances but you have not yet walked? Then I would like to give you a piece of advice, and it is well meant, believe me: Stop watching videos about the Camino Frances. Stop reading blogs and narratives about the Camino Frances. Go and experience it without knowing how others saw it and experienced it. Focus your preparation on your gear and on your level of fitness. Buen Camino!
 
I think the perspectives on the terrain are interesting.

And certainly many people seem to find the Meseta a very rewarding and contemplative section.

Though for me at least it's really about 'time on the trail' and to a lesser extent, the distance walked.
Though of course the two are somewhat linked.
(depending how fast you walk and how many hours a day)

On my first Camino in particular, I found the 3 phases roughly fell into:

1. Physical. 4-6 days
2. Emotional. 4-6 days
3. Spiritual. From day 10-12 ....

When my wife joined me for her first, quite short Camino, (10 days), she hit phase 3 the day before Santiago

I've found on subsequent Caminos, the phases pass a lot faster.
Probably getting through 1 and 2 in maybe 5-6 days.
Obviously this is not 'precise'
Just a 'rough' estimate of how I have experienced it.

This is why when friends ask about the Camino, I tend to suggest walking for a minimum of 2 weeks.
That gives them more chance for 'things to happen'.

Afternote. As others have pointed out the 3 phases, like changes in the weather, can all happen on the same day!

So maybe my key point, is merely that I need at least 10 days walking for 'something' to happen.
 
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This is actually a really key point @Kathar1na !

There is a danger for a new Pilgrim that all kinds of expectations can build up, leading to disappointment if they don't occur.

So lots of research might be OK.
I certainly did quite a bit.

As long as you appreciate you are reading / watching the experience of others.
Your own Camino experience may be totally different!

The Camino comes without a script

Just be open and accepting of whatever happens.........


..
 
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Hi @JustJack While I don't think it's anyone's place to tell you what you should or shouldn't be doing ... as you are clearly getting a great deal of enjoyment out of your research ... I would gently say that there is great anticipation in venturing in to the 'relatively' unknown and great joy in discovery.
 
Faye Walker said:
Usually such ideal situations are cognitive impositions that shoehorn an experience to fit a narrative.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
Faye Walker said:
Separating the "spiritual" from the "mental" seems to be a game of semantics on many days..
Click to expand...
I agree. I could analyze and assess my 4 km to and from the grocery story in a similar way if I wanted. Maybe even a stroll around the garden.
 
Yeah if only life were so simple... Unfortunately things like the current pandemic, work, and many other challenges make simply going and experiencing the camino a wee bit difficult at the moment.

I expressed in a different thread my concern that watching too many youtube videos of others walking the camino could have detrimental effects, so I'm well aware of the potential downside. That said, those videos, blogs, narratives, and discussions on sites like this have helped me get through the past two years of the pandemic, when I would normally be traveling somewhere.

Focusing on my level of fitness is something that is always ongoing, and gear preparation will occupy some of my time closer to departure. In the meantime I have the option of living vicariously through others via videos and blogs, or not. I choose to live vicariously
 
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Robo said:
This is actually a really key point @Kathar1na !

There is a danger for a new Pilgrim that all kinds of expectations can build up, leading to disappointment if they don't occur.
Click to expand...
I feel the need to point out that your videos are included in the many videos I've been watching! And many of your videos are aimed at those that haven't yet walked, so be careful what you suggest or you won't have as many subscribers

As I said previously, I'm operating with my eyes wide open. I fully understand the risks of consuming too much content created by others, and have that warning on loop in the back of my mind as I watch. Your advice is well taken.

But oh the countless hours of pleasure over the past two years all those videos have brought... And without those videos and blogs and web forums I wouldn't have the level of excitement or commitment I currently have for this next adventure.
 

LOL. Hopefully I'm not building up too many false expectations.
Though it's hard not to get excited and enthusiastic when talking about the Camino

Sounds like you are keeping your feet firmly on the ground.


...
 
Hola @JustJack It is an often quoted comment "that is your camino". In other words you experience the Camino in a different manner to any other pilgrim. Regardless of spiritual beliefs you will (I believe) experience a change in your being as you see the Cruz de Fero; pass through O'Cebreiro (pay your respects to Don Elias) and finally when you summit the Monte Gozo and sight the Cathedral de Santiago.
Whatever you experience I know of few people who have not been changed by any of the Caminos.
 
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Robo said:
LOL. Hopefully I'm not building up too many false expectations
Click to expand...
I'll report back after I've walked my camino and let you know

In many of your videos you talk about the excitement and anticipation of preparing for the first camino, and many of your comments tend to resonate with me. That's what keeps me watching despite the complete lack of camino imagery!
 
I think it is fine for people to follow as much (or as little) of the videos, blogs, etc., as they want. Enjoy them. But be careful with over-interpretation, analysis, and generalizations!
 
It's perfectly fine if you don't experience phase 1, 2 or 3 during the Camino! Or maybe you will have 4, 5 or 6 phases. Don't put any pressure on yourself or the Camino to have an idealized experience.

I agree with @Faye Walker
Faye Walker said:
Usually such ideal situations are cognitive impositions that shoehorn an experience to fit a narrative.
Click to expand...
 
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I'm with Faye Walker in that I think we can impose meaning on any Camino and its terrain. A few examples:
  • You talk about the long uphill slog as the perfect way to commence. It sounds a lot better than the reportedly boring and industrial walk out of Porto on the Central or Coastal route (I say "reportedly because I took the more scenic Senda Litoral route). But I can easily imagine someone saying that the walk from the city through the suburbs to the countryside is the perfect way to start a Camino, with the physical geography matching the transition from our everyday lives to the Camino life.
  • Your second point about the first week or so being adjusting to the new routine would seem to be true for any Camino on any route, (although it can happen more quickly for repeat offenders).
  • If, instead of the flat Meseta in the middle, you have the difficult climbs after your body has accustomed to walking (for example, doing the San Salvador after starting with the Camino Madrid), you would be saying that it is just perfect that the Camino presents you with the challenges just when you are ready to tackle them, and how the views are the reward for the extra effort.
I could go on but you see the principle.

Other Camino routes accomplish the same thing, but in different ways. Because it is inside us and we just project our internal growth through pilgrimage onto our environment.
 
It's also worth noting that it doesn't always go as it seems to on the videos. When we walked the Frances, the "physically difficult" part wasn't so much the first week (where he regularly outpaced me but in the latter part of the Meseta up to Astorga. It was only after Astorga that he was really able to move on from a focus on the physical pain. That doesn't fit with your narrative so well.
 
This whole story of 'the three phases of the camino' is just someone's tidy idea. It's not reality. It gets repeated over and over, so people think it must have validity. But it's not universally true. You can experience all of those phases in a moment. Or none at all - maybe it's just an easy walk. You can experience the entirety of your camino that way, or very differently.

Enjoy the videos, @JustJack , but beware of some of the useless concepts that get propagated through them. Your direct experience will be different than all of that.
 
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I heard a lot about these three stages, but they didn't match my experience. Personally I went through at least four distinct mental phases on the Frances alone. I was already in shape, so I skipped the "physical" and jumped right into the mental.

3 days : Magic. I'm captivated by the energy of everyone on the trail and the beauty of the Pyrenees. Saint Jean to Larrasoaña

7 days: Disillusionment. Everyone seems to be clumping into large groups, which all seemed isolated from the other large groups. The talks about 'spirituality' sound forced, as if folks are just repeating what they read in books. There's too many roads. The camino-party scene in Pamplona and Logroño turned me off. The albergues felt too commercial. It all felt commodified. Maybe I should have chosen another route. Larrasoaña to Nájera.

10 days: Renewal. The big "families" broke up. The vibe at the albergues became more mellow and communal. I decide I like people after all. Mornings on the meseta are gorgeous. Burgos and León were special. Now I'm glad I chose this route. Nájera to León.

15 days: The magic returns. Galicia is stunning. There's a strong sense of community among everyone now. And everyone is so relaxed and in the moment. This must be that 'camino spirit' I heard about. León to Santiago.

--- and your stages and experiences are bound to be different again!
 
Some great perspectives on the phases or lack of them

Maybe it's just simpler? Such as.

You may go through some struggles, physically, emotionally, spiritually or otherwise.

And at some stage (for me it's about 10 days), it all starts to make more sense and ......
starts to become easier....


..
 
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Robo said:
Maybe it's just simpler? Such as.

You may go through some struggles, physically, emotionally, spiritually or otherwise.
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly. That's much more accurate than a simplistic camino meme that gets passed around without question as if it's real.

And hopefully this happens, but it's not guaranteed:
Robo said:
And at some stage (for me it's about 10 days), it all starts to make more sense and ......
starts to become easier....
Click to expand...
 
As you see from the varied answers, there's no official three part camino. It's different for everyone.

Personally, the three stages fit well for me, and I need at least a month to go through them all. Shorter walks are still enjoyable but not the same. For others, a week or three days might be enough, or they won't experience any stages at all. It's a bit like the stages of grief: they might appear in different order, you might skip certain ones. It is also possible that you think you're past one and then it suddenly comes back to haunt you.

You'll know after your walk what is true for you.
 
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IMO SJPdP is not a great spot to begin a camino for many pilgrims. A number of pilgrims after the first two stages are injured or have severe blistering. Some pilgrims are unfit and/or have not tested their gear prior to starting, or have not recovered from their long flights and exhausting journeys to get there.

Pilgrims who don’t put in some time walking every day, prior to starting a camino, are much more likely to get blisters and injuries. So prepare before you arrive.

There is no magical time when physical pain ceases or starts.
 

Indeed!!! When I most miss being on a Camino, I approximate the walk into Burgos by doing a 27 k route that starts and ends at my door and includes a minor highway lined with appliance stores, drive-throughs, furniture warehouses and car lots, then passes several km later past the small international airport. The last third of the day includes some nice ascents at a ski hill and some green-way trails.

I call it my “ugly walk” and it is a gift from all those entries into medium-sized towns and small cities on the CF… a tribute to the daisy-chain of suburbs that link Sao Joao do Madeira to Porto….

Camino stretches that many might avoid and that I did not (only because I missed the river turn for Burgos and didn’t see any other way to arrive in Porto… understood that Sahagún and Leon were going to repeat the Burgos entry and exit routine) are the stretches that help me to appreciate the ugly effort that goes into providing my comfortable, urban life.
 
Having walked many stages not on the Camino Frances, I can offer these observations:
1. Starting cities tend to be in valleys. The hill climbing comes next.
2. First 3 days, the body is adjusting to the new routine of daylong walking
3. Next 3 days, the mind is adjusting to being mostly unplugged from the constant stream of news and advertising, and it has noticed hours of solitude and quiet
4. Beginning of the second week, aches and pains start to accumulate. The daily grind starts to mentally grind as well.
5. And so on, until the end is in sight. The last day before arrival is very precious, trying to hang on to "pilgrim mind" and a simpler life.
6. Arrival day. Where did all these people come from? All the crowds, the traffic, the advertising, the shop windows. It's all overwhelming.
 
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So true!
On my first camino I walked from Roncesvalles to Puenta La Reina with a group that included 2 people who had little prepared for the journey, and another group of 4 that made up the bulk of our provisional “pack”.
The 2 (who were a couple) had to leave the trail entirely at Estella (one of them having taken taxis at least half of each day since Zubiri because the pain, the effort, etc were too much). The others left at Santo Domingo because bursitis had bested 3 of them and the 4th had infected blisters.
When they say that “your camino starts at home” I do think that has to mean: prepare as much as you can before you go.
On my first I took 6 weeks prior to get used to walking 22K 3 times a week, and 10 K on 2 other days (to include a big hill). Still, nothing could prepare me for the specific hill challenges that go on and on and on… and yet I was so grateful I had taken that time.
I full know that not everyone has time luxury… but do what you can. It will prevent injury later.
@Robo has talked about changing his mind regarding “getting fit while on the trail” as a recipe for unnecessary difficulty.
 
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Walking my first overseas major walk in 1997 in Nepal, the upper regions of the Annapurna walk i stopped and looked at the amazing nature of the mountains, valleys, blue sky and beautiful flowers and trees and thought, wow! At 46 i had abandoned all thoughts of my catholic upbringing, but here i thought, god, God did an amazing job creating this beautiful planet. I often think these thoughts when walking or cycling wether on a Camino in Spain or elsewhere in the world. I am hoping that this year i can continue my amblings worldwide and Spain after a 2 year hibernation in NZ. Happy new year everyone.
 
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Hola @Marbe2 I understand your comments on physical issues that many pilgrims encounter. In my opinion this comes from either not allowing enough time to train or not allowing enough time to actually complete their camino. In 2017 I took four days from St Jean to Pamplona; followed by a rest day. From there i had another short day, to get away from the Brierley stages. If asked I would recommend first time pilgrims to add at least 3 days to their schedule and if possible add another 5 days to allow time to reach the Atlantic at Muxia. Thanks for a well reasoned post.
 

I allow 5 days to Pamplona.
I like an easy start as a warm up

St Jean to Orrison
to Roncesvalles
to Viskaretta
to Zubiri or Akerreta
to Pamplona

No way I would want to do it in 3 days like many do.
 
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Marbe2 said:
IMO SJPdP is not a great spot to begin a camino for many pilgrims.
Click to expand...
That is no doubt true for some. For others it’s a wonderful way to begin

I’ve walked three times from SJPP to Roncesvalles - twice on the Napoleon route (once directly and once stopping in Orisson) and once on the Valcaros route. I’ve loved all those crossings and expect I’ll do it again by one way or another.

These days there is so much written about that stage in this forum and elsewhere that I imagine (though I could be wrong) that most pilgrims are well aware of the physical challenges and the options including to skip the stage altogether.

The point .. we are all different (thankfully) and there are plenty of options.
 
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That uphill slog was a corker for me in my late 70’s!! Then we had to go all the way back down again as there were no beds available for us 3. We had a picnic lunch at the top the next dayfantastic views and well worth the double effort. The rest was easy peasy all the way to Santiago. I usually started as day was breaking and my fitter & younger Ozzie mates caught up with me around midday when we stopped for lunch, then I usually rejoined them an hour or so after they arrived in the evening. Introspection is the name of the game in the 2nd phase and as for the third - euphoric but absolutely personal. Different strokes for different folks
 

No. That is specific to Camino Francés. Not that you can not experience the same elsewhere. But it is quite unique how the route enhances exactly that. I would say it has an emotional phase as well though.
 
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camino.ninja said:
No. That is specific to Camino Francés. Not that you can not experience the same elsewhere. But it is quite unique how the route enhances exactly that. I would say it has an emotional phase as well though.
Click to expand...
I would agree if what you say referred to the Camino de Santiago which is what the " route" was referred to long before it became the Camino Frances.

Samarkand.
 
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