- Time of past OR future Camino
- Many, various, and continuing.
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Well, the route is named after Ignacio Taverneiro, a pilgrim who died on this route in 1784. An image of the document attesting to his death can be seen in the guidebook, along with other historical evidence that the route was known and used by pilgrims. You are free to draw your own conclusions about how "vague" or "sketchy" that evidence may be. That's not an argument I'm interested in having.Just a historical nitpick: this is not a "rediscovered camino." It was confected, like a good number of other local "caminos," within the last few years by local interests...the same people often appear as 'founders' of more than one. Historical references and relation to the Santiago Way is vague, sketchy, or based on "local lore." That does not make it any less beautiful, fun, or challenging -- and no doubt somebody walked that way at some point to get to Santigo. Still, calling it a 'rediscovered camino" is a big stretch.
All roads lead to Santiago, @Rebekah Scott !!!Just a historical nitpick: this is not a "rediscovered camino." It was confected, like a good number of other local "caminos," within the last few years by local interests...the same people often appear as 'founders' of more than one. Historical references and relation to the Santiago Way is vague, sketchy, or based on "local lore." That does not make it any less beautiful, fun, or challenging -- and no doubt somebody walked that way at some point to get to Santigo. Still, calling it a 'rediscovered camino" is a big stretch.
If that were true, there would be no Camino de Santiago... but in Galicia, it looks like every driveway and back road is now becoming a "Camino" of some kind. Pilgrims have been walking to Santiago from their homes for centuries, and lots of them died on the way. Does that mean every road they walked is now a "camino de santiago?" No.All roads lead to Santiago, @Rebekah Scott !!!
I’ll reply later, Rebekah. Get ready for what I will say.If that were true, there would be no Camino de Santiago... but in Galicia, it looks like every driveway and back road is now becoming a "Camino" of some kind. Pilgrims have been walking to Santiago from their homes for centuries, and lots of them died on the way. Does that mean every road they walked is now a "camino de santiago?" No.
Creating new "caminos" cheapens the historic ones. It also shows a bland disregard for history in general, and religious culture in specific. Time will tell which caminos survive the initial enthusiasm and the lives of the creators.
That said, what's wrong with walking a beautiful old pathway between lovely towns and friendly hosts? Not a thing. Why insist on pasting a "camino" label on it?
I don't understand what you are trying to say here, Rebekah. Many of us have had more than enough of overcrowded caminos like the Francés or Portugués, and love 'discovering' lesser-known routes.If that were true, there would be no Camino de Santiago... but in Galicia, it looks like every driveway and back road is now becoming a "Camino" of some kind. Pilgrims have been walking to Santiago from their homes for centuries, and lots of them died on the way. Does that mean every road they walked is now a "camino de santiago?" No.
Creating new "caminos" cheapens the historic ones. It also shows a bland disregard for history in general, and religious culture in specific. Time will tell which caminos survive the initial enthusiasm and the lives of the creators.
That said, what's wrong with walking a beautiful old pathway between lovely towns and friendly hosts? Not a thing. Why insist on pasting a "camino" label on it?
I cannot match Shirley MacLaines' book route in 1994, so I would be hopeless with the ninth century version. When you are on an actual section of a Roman road, at least you can be certain someone was there before, whether pilgrim or conqueror.we have no assurances that they walked on the precise path that these routes currently take.
There were credencials and sellos along the way in 1990 but there was no official minimum distance to receive a Compostela then and no fixed number of sellos required. Theoretically anyone who visited the cathedral and the tomb of the Apostle could ask for a Compostela but in practice only walking pilgrims did. The minimum distance was first set for the 1993 Holy Year. The demands for using only an official credencial and finding two sellos per day both came later. The rule requiring pilgrims to walk on recognised Camino routes for the final 100km to receive a Compostela only goes back to 2018.But how old is that phenomenon? When did the idea of walking certain routes where you would collect these stamps become the only way to get a certificate of completion?
Much more recently than I thought. So pretty much no one has been keeping track of how pilgrims got to Santiago until quite recently? What do the Pilgrim office records say?There were credencials and sellos along the way in 1990 but there was no official minimum distance to receive a Compostela then and no fixed number of sellos required. Theoretically anyone who visited the cathedral and the tomb of the Apostle could ask for a Compostela but in practice only walking pilgrims did. The minimum distance was first set for the 1993 Holy Year. The demands for using only an official credencial and finding two sellos per day both came later. The rule requiring pilgrims to walk on recognised Camino routes for the final 100km to receive a Compostela only goes back to 2018.
The pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostella has a long history. The distances traveled were tracked - the penitent needed to walk from a given point all the way to Santiago to gain forgiveness. The idea of gaining sellos along the way is a modern concept in an attempt to ensure that pilgrims were walking rather than other forms of travel. I will have to go back to some of books to see when sellos may have first appeared.Much more recently than I thought. So pretty much no one has been keeping track of how pilgrims got to Santiago until quite recently? What do the Pilgrim office records say?
It would seem kind of hard to make an argument about which routes are authentic and which are not If it didn't matter until quite recently.
But I still wonder when sellos made their first appearance?
Sellos in credentials made their first appearance in 1965 or in 1986, depending on what you wish to regard as authentic.But I still wonder when sellos made their first appearance?
According to the chronology linked in this post the first modern credencial dates from 1958 - made by the French Camino association. Though I would imagine that any sellos collected at the time would not be Camino-specific.I will have to go back to some of books to see when sellos may have first appeared.
Thanks, That's right, 1000 years give or take. So how were they tracking pre Sello?The pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostella has a long history. The distances traveled were tracked - the penitent needed to walk from a given point all the way to Santiago to gain forgiveness
Thanks.In 1965 or in 1985, depending on what you wish to regard as authentic.
I would have to look it up to be sure but I don't think that their 1958 version had spaces for collecting stamps.According to the chronology linked in this post the first modern credencial dates from 1958 - made by the French Camino association. Though I would imagine that any sellos collected at the time would not be Camino-specific.
I think there is a misunderstanding behind the question. For the medieval pilgrims the spiritual benefits of pilgrimage lay in visiting the relics of the saints and receiving the sacraments in the destination church. The actual travelling was incidental - a means to an end. The route followed and the means of travel used were not particularly relevant in themselves. So no church authority would need to keep track of how and where pilgrims were travelling except perhaps to provide infrastructure and protection along the most travelled routes.Thanks, That's right, 1000 years give or take. So how were they tracking pre Sello?
I only asked this because @MichaelB10398 said they were tracking somehow pre-sello....?I think there is a misunderstanding behind the question. For the medieval pilgrims the spiritual benefits of pilgrimage lay in visiting the relics of the saints and receiving the sacraments in the destination church. The actual travelling was incidental - a means to an end. The route followed and the means of travel used were not particularly relevant in themselves. So no church authority would need to keep track of how and where pilgrims were travelling except perhaps to provide infrastructure and protection along the most travelled routes.
I checked. It didn't. The 1958 version of the pilgrim passport or credential was a simple letter in French and in Spanish. It was still in use in 1982.I would have to look it up to be sure but I don't think that their 1958 version had spaces for collecting stamps.
The French route has existed and been promoted as a pilgrim route since the middle ages. There were plenty of geo-political, economic, and safety reasons for herding pilgrims back then along a particular path, and that path (for europeans traveling from homes in places not south of SDC) was the Camino Francis. Many of the towns, villages and cities along that route were developed for or as a result of the Camino Francis and the pilgrims that walked it.What is a "Camino"? What makes one "authentic"? All of today's routes are modern creations. There was only one named and recognised route when I walked my first Camino and even that had only existed in physical form as a specific signposted route for about five years at that point. The pilgrim office Compostela pre-registration page now lists 19 named routes plus "otros Caminos". All of them - the Frances included - are to some extent "confected" though of course there is far more evidence of pilgrim traffic in volume in previous centuries for some routes in particular. But I think that pilgrims would have made their way to Santiago by a far more complicated network of roads and paths than even today's sprawling spider web of officially designated "Caminos". The pilgrim office's decision to restrict the Compostela only to those who walk one of a limited number of designated routes seems to me to be a grave mistake which shifts the central focus of pilgrimage from the destination to the journey. Attempting to rank routes in terms of "authenticity" feels like another unnecessary and unproductive exercise. Does a route lead a pilgrim to Santiago? If so that makes it enough of a camino for me.
Greetings, the pilgrims of those days did not have many alternatives for transportation - over time it grew from walking, horse, or wagons. The expense of using a horse or wagon were only available to those capable of the care - thus, the wealthy. The common pilgrim walked. When they showed up at the Cathedrale they earned their Compostela. Many pilgrims of those early days were often criminals or those deemed having committed a deadly or capital sins. They could use their Compostela to gain release from prison or other forms of "penance" or sentence.Thanks, That's right, 1000 years give or take. So how were they tracking pre Sello?
Thanks.
Great topic to bring up and something I mull over when looking at the plethora of routes. No stamps needed if there is no alternative transport. No taxis and Correos...and then they walked back! That is often in my mind when arriving at SdC - to have to turn around and retrace my steps. I often think of two things if a medieval pilgrim. One is when walking out my door to get on to a main route asap for navigation, safety in numbers, hospitals etc. contrasted with 2. To get there by the most direct (shortest/easiest) route possible. Getting a boat to the nearest port affordable and walking the safest most direct route to SDC. That would have driven my route decision. I think Chaucer reveals a lot - pilgrims gathering and setting off as a group. So of course pilgrims went by a myriad of routes but ultimately a lot were feeders presumably for the main highways of the day. The more popular the route the more evidence remains in name, source and structure. Like today, if there's money to be made (demand) the infrastructure follows and is maintained. One dead pilgrim does not a camino make but what is a Camino and therefore deserves the honorific?Greetings, the pilgrims of those days did not have many alternatives for transportation - over time it grew from walking, horse, or wagons. The expense of using a horse or wagon were only available to those capable of the care - thus, the wealthy. The common pilgrim walked.
I find great joy in Chaucer’s works, and I believe you are correct in noting that pilgrims often gathered together. There was safety in numbers, as well as other advantages. Chaucer’s portrayal of pilgrims highlights the folly and crassness inherent in humanity. The penitent pilgrim, far from being a paragon of holiness, represents a human soul in search of forgiveness. Much like today, some sought forgiveness with minimal effort, while others gave their all..... I think Chaucer reveals a lot - pilgrims gathering and setting off as a group.
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