Branching out from the Brierley guidebook

[Steve Hackman]

I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.

Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak

 

[david townsend]

Bravo Steve Hackman! Great question. I just ordered that book too! It will arrive tomorrow. I'm anxious to hear the responses you will get and especially interested in great restaurant and church experiences. Anybody go to mass and then continue to walk on down the road within the same day? That sounds like it would be amazing.

 

[Brendaparrish]

I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.

Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak

Steve ,
I relied on brierley the first few days for comfort( stranger in a foreign country, alone) but quickly found my own pace, which did not coincide.....let the camino lead you...oh how it will...

 

[Siom]

I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.

Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak

Hi Steve, can i ask which edition did you get? 2014 or 2015? Thanks.

 

[Steve Hackman]

Hi Steve, can i ask which edition did you get? 2014 or 2015? Thanks.

1oth edition 2014

 

[Siom]

1oth edition 2014

Thanks, Steve.

 

[DurhamParish]

On my first camino, I kept my nose firmly in the Brierley Book. On my second camino, I began to stray from the Brierley "stages" and did just fine. I didn't intend to stray, but I found some days that I arrived at the recommended stage end, but it was too early in the day for me to stop, so I continued on. It all worked out okay.

Brierley is a wonderful resource, and for a first camino it may not be completely necessary, but it sure is a comfort to have all of that great information easily at hand. I highly recommend having one for your first camino. After that, you can decide for yourself if you need one for subsequent caminos. I know I will have one for my third and fourth caminos this year. They are a comfort to know you have them if you need them. My 2015 edition is pre-ordered from Amazon.

And for your planning, they are invaluable.

 

[jeffnd]

I never followed the stages, just use the guide to see what was coming up.

That wasn't really intentional, I just found the stages too long at the beginning and too short at the end!

 

[allykat]

I recommend straying from the J.B. at the point of Sarria and on. If you love Portamarin, feel free to stay there... but oh the treasures you find if you walk just a bit further that day!

What I did: Stayed with my friends in Portamarin until 9pm, and left to continue walking in the night, broke bread as it got dark with some camping pilgrims, and then continued on to a large and beautiful forest area along a main road (cars don't bother me) and pulled out my sleeping bag, brushed out a clear area for my pack and me and got some shut eye. (Side note: My guide said this forest used to be an open air brothel! Wowzers!) From then on I was about 3-5k off the J.B. for the remained until I got to Monte de Gozo. I didn't deal with the mad rush for beds that most of my friends dealt with, I met amazing small town Hospitalera/os and made some sweet friends all by myself. My nice little spot gave me EXCELLENT sleep for about 5-6 hours (slept from 11pm-5am) and I was up and walking by 6am feeling far more refreshed than I had any business being sleeping outside. I walked early in the morning in the dark to the very small Lestedo and from there on out enjoyed some quality time with fellow pilgrims doing their final preparations for Santiago.


What you could do: Walk from Sarria to Portamarin as quick as you can and make it there for a early lunch (swim in the river if you like that kind of thing!) attach your wet skivvies to your pack after your dip and trek off to Gonzar to the Xunta by the road.

Why at Sarria and not before? Because you'll make amazing connections with fellow pilgrims, and while the roads are full, even on a walk scheduled to arrive in Santiago for July 24th, we didn't feel like we were scrambling for beds, and keep in mind I walked SLOW. As in, I would get into town at 3-4pm each day after starting at 7-8am! Doing the J.B. walks! I still was able to get a bed in the same albergue as friends, and eat happily and take a shower. But, once we hit Sarria, I knew things would dive (my compatriots stayed the J.B. course and HATED the last 100km). I contend that it was my favorite part of the Camino. So, my recommendation is to walk with others first, make friends, build relationships, create a familia if you want to and then either convince them to take the path less traveled with you, or say "I'll meet you in Santiago!" and take that quieter path. The towns with the least in the last 100km were the towns that had the most to offer me.

 

[allykat]

Also, as a completely different thing, my German friends had this guide, if you speak German, or meet a German Pilgrim and they have this German guide, USE IT, we all agreed it was MUCH better than J.B. and was much more honest about what you can find... it also seemed to have a more quirky tone, and updated information that was more useful (the food in this town is more expensive than 3km up, so walk for dinner, this albergue just had a new hotwater heater installed etc...)

 

[clearskiescamino]

I've been back and forth to Spain for the last few years as you can see and I avoid Brierley's guide.
However, it was a good guide on my first 2 outings. As you become more comfortable and confident, try to skip the end stages laid out in the guide.

 

[SYates]

There are a lot of advantages NOT to follow the ¨Brierley Stages¨

The majority of pilgrims that has this guide, and others that have the same stages, follow them, leading to overcrowding in same places/albergues.
Loss of spontaneity, you let the guide make the decision where to stay, you don't follow your own way.
Little flexibility when health issues arise. I have met pilgrims that, despite having enough time, took a taxi for the last kilometres because they were so fixated on the prescribed stage / end point.

As you can see, I see any guide book as a guideline, but not as something I have to follow literally. My suggestion (and what I do): Try to stay away from the 'classical' stopping points. Walk every day as far as you feel comfortable with. When having done most of your days walk, have a look how far it is to the next albergue and ask your feet 'shall we go on or stay here?'

Buen Camino! SY

 

[Robo]

Also, as a completely different thing, my German friends had this guide, if you speak German, or meet a German Pilgrim and they have this German guide, USE IT, we all agreed it was MUCH better than J.B. and was much more honest about what you can find... it also seemed to have a more quirky tone, and updated information that was more useful (the food in this town is more expensive than 3km up, so walk for dinner, this albergue just had a new hotwater heater installed etc...)

What is the name of the German Guide Allykat? I can manage a bit of German. Would be interesting to get one.

 

[SYates]

I think the one Allykat means is that one: https://www.conrad-stein-verlag.de/...=978-3-86686-424-5&edition=17&t=1420619870991 The other German guide (Rother) also has prescribed stages, SY

 

[allykat]

I think the one Allykat means is that one: https://www.conrad-stein-verlag.de/...=978-3-86686-424-5&edition=17&t=1420619870991 The other German guide (Rother) also has prescribed stages, SY

Yep! That's the one!

 

[Mark Lee]

The Brierley guidebook does its job well and is a good choice. Can't say I paid much attention to the mystical, philosophical ramblings in it, but the maps were good as were the short descriptions of the towns. I didn't follow the stages exactly in either of my Caminos. I would stop where I felt like each day and the book did help me in knowing what was ahead, and really that's all any guidebook is good for. If I got somewhere and it had a good vibe to it (or I just didn't feel like walking anymore ), I would stay there. Hard to recommend any one place specifically as we all have our own likes and dislikes. You will see once you start walking the Camino. You'll know exactly what you like in each town.
My first Camino I arrived in St. Jean with no guidebook or any idea what the popular stages were. Couldn't find one in English in any of the bookstores there, but as the Camino provides I found one on the "donation table" in the albergue. It wasn't the Brierley guidebook, but had decent maps and worked just fine. My second Camino I brought a Brierley guidebook.

 

[KinkyOne]

Also, as a completely different thing, my German friends had this guide, if you speak German, or meet a German Pilgrim and they have this German guide, USE IT, we all agreed it was MUCH better than J.B. and was much more honest about what you can find... it also seemed to have a more quirky tone, and updated information that was more useful (the food in this town is more expensive than 3km up, so walk for dinner, this albergue just had a new hotwater heater installed etc...)

I might agree with that, regarding food. I walked CF with 6th edition in 2011 and found almost no relevant info on food options in JB. Otherwise it was great guide-book but I also did not follow his stages.

 

[waveprof]

Also, as a completely different thing, my German friends had this guide, if you speak German, or meet a German Pilgrim and they have this German guide, USE IT, we all agreed it was MUCH better than J.B. and was much more honest about what you can find... it also seemed to have a more quirky tone, and updated information that was more useful (the food in this town is more expensive than 3km up, so walk for dinner, this albergue just had a new hotwater heater installed etc...)

The Spanish guide is the same way. We used that primarily (we had a Brierly but stopped looking at it for anything very often very quickly)


BTW we had particularly bad experiences with inaccuracies in the Brierly maps. Others claim different and it might depend on the edition. But beware.

 

[KinkyOne]

As for the markings I'm sure you don't need any guide book on Frances

 

[mspath]

Everyone's Camino is, of course, different. Personally during 10 CF's since 2004 I have only used three sources; the current CSJ guide, the current paper sheet distributed at the municipal albergue in SJPdP and 50 years old notes from graduate courses in art history/architecture. In more than 450 cumulative days walking I have always found a bunk for the night and never gone to sleep hungry even in winter as well as seeing remarkable sights and sites during each day. All that is needed is curiosity and tenacity.

 

[waveprof]

Everyone's Camino is, of course, different. Personally during 10 CF's since 2004 I have only used three sources; the current CSJ guide, the current paper sheet distributed at the municipal albergue in SJPdP and 50 year old notes from graduate courses in art history/architecture. In more than 450 cummulative days walking I have always found a bunk for the night and never gone to sleep hungry even in winter as well as seeing remarkable sights and sites during each day. All that is needed is curiosity and tenacity.

Not only is this a beautiful response, but I love that it brings (back) up the CSJ guide. A remarkable source that too often is left out of these discussions. You remain my ultimate example of a peregrino.

 

[david townsend]

where do I acquire the current CSJ guide?

 

[SYates]

where do I acquire the current CSJ guide?

Here http://www.csj.org.uk/product/camino-frances/
Buen Camino! SY

 

[david townsend]

Here http://www.csj.org.uk/product/camino-frances/
Buen Camino! SY

Ms. Yates, you are extraordinary! I've jumped on and ordered it already. I will use this book and the Brierly
as wonderful references and then promptly discard them so I can feel free to get lost occasionally and wander aimlessly.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

50 years old notes from graduate courses in art history/architecture. .

Mspath, these notes sound quite interesting. First because history and explanations of the art and architecture we are discovering when on the Camino is what I find lacks most from the current guides. Then also because with all that there is around, and the fact that you chose not to carry all that stuff, you do bring those notes with you. If you were willing to share them, I would certainly be grateful and I'm convinced others would be as well.

 

[code_monkey_001]

The Brierley guidebook does its job well and is a good choice. Can't say I paid much attention to the mystical, philosophical ramblings in it, but the maps were good as were the short descriptions of the towns.

If the basic maps and descriptions of towns is all you think you'll need, there's a stripped-down version of the Brierly guidebook that is just the maps - 112 pages versus 288 for the full version. Less to carry with you.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Everyone's Camino is, of course, different. Personally during 10 CF's since 2004 I have only used three sources; the current CSJ guide, the current paper sheet distributed at the municipal albergue in SJPdP and 50 years old notes from graduate courses in art history/architecture. In more than 450 cumulative days walking I have always found a bunk for the night and never gone to sleep hungry even in winter as well as seeing remarkable sights and sites during each day. All that is needed is curiosity and tenacity.

Could not agree more with the basic tools needed, 2 sheets of paper, both available at the Pilgrim Help Desk in St-Jean: one with elevations and distances of suggested etapas and then their list of albergues. Pick up your credencial at the same time, and then stray from those etapas ;0)

 

[mspath]

I am afraid that those notes from wonderful courses by the great Meyer Schapiro and Erwin Panofsky are very fragmented and written in my own shorthand code. However I suggest you scan the ebook version available on Amazon of The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook by David M. Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson. It is most useful scholarly work.
MM

 

[nidarosa]

I have an Anaya Touring Cuaderno Peregrino guide book - those small Moleskine notebook looking ones you see in some shops along the way - with two pages of simple maps followed by four pages of ruled notepaper. Brilliant idea, but still have never taken it with me, always opting for the bigger, heavier, thicker ones because I thought I needed the info. I didn't in most cases. This time I am walking from Astorga with my brand new husband and am thinking it's time to take the little Anaya, and write any necessary additional info into it before I go, such as accommodation addresses from my CSJ guide, good restaurants I want to remember to stop at again etc, and of course adding info as I go. A bit of a DIY small and compact guide! (They have guides for the Norte and Portugues too, if not up-to-date versions.) If anyone else has any experiences with this guide I'd be interested to hear them.

 

[DurhamParish]

Thanks Ms. Yates, I just ordered the CSJ guide. Suggest you contact CSJ and request a promotion fee.

 

[Steve Hackman]

Thanks for all the great input and recommendations everyone! I leave for my first camino in 82 days...but whose counting?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I am afraid that those notes from wonderful courses by the great Meyer Schapiro and Erwin Panofsky are very fragmented and written in my own shorthand code. However I suggest you scan the ebook version available on Amazon of The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook by David M. Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson. It is most useful scholarly work.
MM

Thank you for the reference. I will look into it tonight.

 

[MichaelC]

I've been amusing myself by comparing the different stages you find in different country's guidebooks. They are all similar in Navarra and La Rioja, but vary a lot in Galicia. Here are the recommended stages for approximately the last 200 k:

English (Brierely, Lonely Planet, Camino Ways- all the English guides I look at seem to offer similar stages)
Villafranca Del Bierzo
O Cebreiro
Triacastela
Sarria
Portomarín
Palas De Rei
Ribadiso or Arzúa
Pedrouzo or Rúa
Santiago

French (Les amis du chemin)
Cacabelos
Vega de Valcarce
Alto de Poyo
Calbor
Portomarín
Ponte Campama
Ribadiso
Pedrouzo
Santiago

Spanish (Guía del Camino Francés)
Cacabelos
Vega de Valcarce
Triacastela
Sarria
Portomarín
Palas De Rei
Arzúa
Pedrouzo
Santiago

German (Rother)
Villafranca Del Bierzo
La Faba
Triacastela
Barbeladelo
Hospital da Cruz
Mélide
Pedrouza
Santiago

If anyone has links to the Italian or Korean (in translation) guides it would be fun to compare them too!

 

[Bernard duffy]

Man i just walked and let the arrows guide me,no rushing,no guide book,just walked and loved it,back again in July

 

[s. brown]

I am afraid that those notes from wonderful courses by the great Meyer Schapiro and Erwin Panofsky are very fragmented and written in my own shorthand code. However I suggest you scan the ebook version available on Amazon of The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook by David M. Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson. It is most useful scholarly work.
MM

Where did you attend school to hear Meyer Schapiro and Panofsky?

 

[Saint Mike II]

There are a lot of advantages NOT to follow the ¨Brierley Stages¨

The majority of pilgrims that has this guide, and others that have the same stages, follow them, leading to overcrowding in same places/albergues.
As you can see, I see any guide book as a guideline, but not as something I have to follow literally. My suggestion (and what I do): Try to stay away from the 'classical' stopping points. Walk every day as far as you feel comfortable with. When having done most of your days walk, have a look how far it is to the next albergue and ask your feet 'shall we go on or stay here?'

Buen Camino! SY

My sentiments exactly "its a guide" - take the information and apply it to your needs. In fact if you want to "go off camino" and see all the little "extras" then I doubt you can follow Brierley's Stages. Maybe the real philosophy of the camino should be "I departed SJPP _ or wherever - and start walking, eventually I will arrive at SDC the days it takes do not matter". Buen Camino!!

 

[mspath]

Where did you attend school to hear Meyer Schapiro and Panofsky?

My graduate degrees in art history and architecture are from Columbia University. However much of the NYC art world also attended their lectures. Actuaĺly it was in Schapiro's course on medieval manuscripts that I learned of the camino; within the hour I was smitten! Forty years later I was finally able to first walk the route and now fifty years later I still am.
MM

 

[november_moon]

We definitely used Bierley is a guide, not a recipe. We started in Leon and walked "on stage" the first day. The second day, the stage went all the way to Astorga, which we thought was too far for us anyway, so we stopped in Hospital Orbigo, which made for a very short walking day BUT there was a big festival in town, which was fabulous - great way to spend the afternoon and evening. Then we just walked distances each day that made sense to us. Sometimes we stayed at the end of a Bierley stage, sometimes not, just depended on how things worked out. We liked the guide for the maps and elevation changes - nice to know sort of what's coming, where the towns are, about how many beds we can expect to find in various towns that we might want to stay in, will today's walk be hilly or not, etc. Any guide or map that had that info in it would have been great for us. I did also like some of the historical context and other info provided.

 

[s. brown]

My graduate degrees in art history and architecture are from Columbia University. However much of the NYC art world also attended their lectures. Actuaĺly it was in Schapiro's course on medieval manuscripts that I learned of the camino; within the hour I was smitten! Forty years later I was finally able to first walk the route and now fifty years later I still am.
MM

Thanks so much for your reply!! I have an undergraduate degree in art history from the University of Michigan. I would have loved hearing Schapiro lecture. I learned about the camino from a series of truly delightful articles written for Gourmet magazine by an American psychiatrist, Herb McGrew, in the early 1990s. It looks like my 2015 Le Puy camino is cancelled, and I am heartbroken. Alas....back to the drawing board.

 

[mspath]

Sorry to learn that your camino has been postponed. Let us hope that these amazing routes will always exist and that in some future time you will be able to walk.
Buen Camino,
MM

 

[madame_shepard]

I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.

Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak

Although we had the Brierley guide, we didn't follow his stages. However, it was nice to know in advance how long it would be until the next chance to get a coffee or a sandwich, so that we could plan ahead. We also had the Miam Miam Dodo (French guide), which occasionally listed a stop that was not listed in the Brierley guide. (El Horno, in Irotz, comes to mind). It also had more information about non-albergue lodging.

 

[DurhamParish]

I just ordered the CSJ guide.

Just received my CSJ guide. It is nice, but one thing is missing, no maps. I'm a very geographic visual person and need (at least psychologically) a map to give me a sense of where I've been and where I'm going. But I will look more and more at the CSJ guide and see how I respond to it.

Maybe it would be good for me to just "let go" and trust the arrows and not worry about where I am on the map.

 

[Lyndale]

I borrowed the Brierly book from the library about ten times before our Camino. Just before leaving home I bought "Hiking the Camino De Santiago by Anna Dintamin and David Landis. It does weigh a little more than Brierly but very useful info. Didn't do their stages as I walk too slow but rather used it as a guide as to what is coming up and to make sure there was some type of accommodation in the next few kilometers should we tire. A few times we did end up in the same town as a stage end of either Brierly or this guide but usually just stopped when tired or found an interesting place. I would highly recommend the Dintamin/Landis guide. It gave the right amount of town history, accommodations and food info. The maps were excellent. Also gave info on which towns have ATM's. We ran out of money once and from then on referred to the guide to "stock up" on cash. Not all villages have ATM's and sometimes you can walk a whole day without coming across one. Great Guide!!

 

[naplesdon]

Very good thread. Depending on the weather, if you are starting from SJPDP, walk the first day to Orisson or take the alternative route thru the Val Carlos; bottom line take your time for the first 3 days including the nasty downhill into Zubriri. After that it is a piece of cake for the next 700km. (Unless you happen to run out of Euros.)

 

[SYates]

... After that it is a piece of cake for the next 700km. (Unless you happen to run out of Euros.)

Cough ... Cough ... Cough

Crossing the Meseta?
Down from the Cruz the Ferro?
Down (and up to) O Cebreiro?

Piece of cake? You must be stronger than I was ...

Buen Camino, SY

 

[Chris White]

I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.

Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak

I also just bought the book Steve, for my upcoming Camino in April/May. But I think I will just use it to guide me to each town so I don't get lost - and experience the cafes and restaurants myself. That way my walk won't be 'staged' as I'd be going the right way, but I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation and eating side of things. Good luck.

 

[clearskiescamino]

I bring it along so I know what towns to avoid

 

[Steve Hackman]

I also just bought the book Steve, for my upcoming Camino in April/May. But I think I will just use it to guide me to each town so I don't get lost - and experience the cafes and restaurants myself. That way my walk won't be 'staged' as I'd be going the right way, but I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation and eating side of things. Good luck.

Hi Chris, my son and I will also be doing April / May. We will set out from SJPdP on April 3.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

experience the cafes and restaurants myself

You will discover that in the small places, you may have a choice of only one or two dining places.

I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation

The same for beds. The really small place have a choice of "one".

If you really stop when you are tired of walking, the best use of the guide is knowing how much further the next place is. Countless times, I have started my day by noting at the next stop, "Boy, am I glad I stopped. At the end of the day, THAT would have been too much." Brierley information on distances, terrain, and options has always given me the serenity to make good choices. However, it won't help with recommendations, or even whether to anticipate a washer and dryer. Miam Miam Dodo does, but a guidebook in French for a route in Spain for an American incompetent in both languages makes me uneasy!

Buen camino.

 

[Thornley]

I also just bought the book Steve, for my upcoming Camino in April/May. But I think I will just use it to guide me to each town so I don't get lost - and experience the cafes and restaurants myself. That way my walk won't be 'staged' as I'd be going the right way, but I still have my own choices when it comes to the accommodation and eating side of things. Good luck.

The Miam Miam Do Do leaves all others for dead in relation to eating out and associated costs.
We found out the hard way in 2008 when using Brierley.
Since then only MMDD and the local tourist offices.
** The Camino Frances has between 200,000 to 250,000 walking people each year.......You can't possibly get lost.

 

[KentuckyJay]

I just got my John Brierley guidebook which seems to be what many pilgrims recommend. I can already see it will be of great value on my upcoming first camino. However I don't want my pilgrimage to be a preset "staged" walk. I was curious what others may suggest / recommend from their walks where they either disregarded the guidebook or experienced a cafe, albergue, church, or other place of interest not mentioned.

Or just an experience where you went "off the guidebook" so to speak

I carried both the Brierly Guide and the Michelin Guide and referred to both. What was interesting to me is that sometimes the Michelin Guide follows one of the alternate routes provided by Brierly. I used both as references but did not follow either specifically. One favorite route took me by a artist who had sculptures galore and another to the Samos Monastery. Whatever you do, don't feel that you have to cover the stages suggested in Brierly. As we say on the Appalachian Trail, "hike your own hike."

 

[Chris White]

Hi Chris, my son and I will also be doing April / May. We will set out from SJPdP on April 3.

Hey Steve,
We have decided to start around May 10, in order to give us a better chance at doing the Napoleon way. May see you if you are walking slowly

 

[Kathy F.]

I would have found it difficult to stick with the Brierly stages even if I had wanted to. Weather, terrain, companionship, fitness/fatigue, all contribute to keeping all the albergues along the CF busy. That being said, I took the Brierly and found it invaluable.
Happy planning!!

 

[Kathy F.]

Hey Steve,
We have decided to start around May 10, in order to give us a better chance at doing the Napoleon way. May see you if you are walking slowly

I started around May 22 and was strongly advised by the SJPdP pilgrim office to not go on the Nap because the weather had made it extremely treacherous. Great advice, since some who ignored that advice paid a very steep price. If you go on the ValCarlos, don't be disappointed - it has some magnificent views and challenges also.

 

[Chris White]

Thanks FooteK. Good to know that it really is up to the weather on that particular day, and the importance of guides advice. Cheers

 

[Donna W]

I borrowed the Brierly book from the library about ten times before our Camino. Just before leaving home I bought "Hiking the Camino De Santiago by Anna Dintamin and David Landis. It does weigh a little more than Brierly but very useful info. Didn't do their stages as I walk too slow but rather used it as a guide as to what is coming up and to make sure there was some type of accommodation in the next few kilometers should we tire. A few times we did end up in the same town as a stage end of either Brierly or this guide but usually just stopped when tired or found an interesting place. I would highly recommend the Dintamin/Landis guide. It gave the right amount of town history, accommodations and food info. The maps were excellent. Also gave info on which towns have ATM's. We ran out of money once and from then on referred to the guide to "stock up" on cash. Not all villages have ATM's and sometimes you can walk a whole day without coming across one. Great Guide!!

I also bought this guide and am glad to see you found it helpful. My husband and I will be taking it with us on our Camino in August-October this year. I also bought S. Yates' book "Pilgrim Tips & Packing List" and it has some terrific pointers to help the new pilgrims (like my husband and me!) know what to take and what to leave behind.

 

[Charles Hansen]

. . . Brierley . . . but the maps were good . . .

I would say they're drawings and not maps. I understand his reasoning, but the varying compass orientation bothers me, as well as the varying scale (even within each page ;-) to meet his needs. I wish he would identify the roads that cross the Camino vs. all those anonymous grey lines. I'm sure that I would get used to it if walking from it for several days, but my initial reaction is one of visual confusion and overload - some stages being worse than others. Vs. say a Michelin map, which I feel provides an excellent graphical hierarchy of importance, I have a very hard time making visual sense of what is presented to me by Brierley. It may be a left brain vs. right brain kind of thing.

Here is a page from the Jakobs-Radweg German cycling guide. While I won't pretend that it provides all of the varying info that Brierley does, for my tastes the information is much more clearly presented, so I can take it all in with a very quick glance - perhaps explained by the difference of cycling vs. walking pace. Best of all - it is in fact a real map, and to 1:75,000 scale at that. I also find the maps in the Dintaman-Landis guide unsatisfactory - but then I'm fussy about my maps ;-)

 

[Charles Hansen]

As for the markings I'm sure you don't need any guide book on Frances

I'm not a walker, but have to disagree with that on the basis of quite recent investigation of the river route into Burgos. A few folks on this forum are quite fond of saying "just follow the arrows", but some of us like to research the various options in advance so we know what they are, and can take advantage of them. I'm sure that one can have a fine Camino by just following the arrows, but I should think that if you're really interested in the history, the culture, and the architecture, then you need to make some effort before you go to learn just what is out there, and decide where you want to go and what you want to see. Cycling certainly makes it much easier to take side trips, such as to San Millan de la Cogolla. However, if I was walking I would still want to know what the alternate routes were, so I could make a conscious decision instead of just following the crowd. Back to Burgos, it turns out that a fair number of people knew about the more pleasant river entry, but couldn't find it due to lack of arrows, and a guide book - particularly Hiking The Camino De Santiago would have greatly helped.

 

[Mark Lee]

I would say they're drawings and not maps. I understand his reasoning, but the varying compass orientation bothers me, as well as the varying scale (even within each page ;-) to meet his needs. I wish he would identify the roads that cross the Camino vs. all those anonymous grey lines. I'm sure that I would get used to it if walking from it for several days, but my initial reaction is one of visual confusion and overload - some stages being worse than others. Vs. say a Michelin map, which I feel provides an excellent graphical hierarchy of importance, I have a very hard time making visual sense of what is presented to me by Brierley. It may be a left brain vs. right brain kind of thing.

Here is a page from the Jakobs-Radweg German cycling guide. While I won't pretend that it provides all of the varying info that Brierley does, for my tastes the information is much more clearly presented, so I can take it all in with a very quick glance - perhaps explained by the difference of cycling vs. walking pace. Best of all - it is in fact a real map, and to 1:75,000 scale at that. I also find the maps in the Dintaman-Landis guide unsatisfactory - but then I'm fussy about my maps ;-)

View attachment 16451

Well, for the average pilgrim walking the CF who is not well versed or trained in orienteering, cartography or have had land navigation training (or even carry a compass with them on the CF) I would say drawings, rather than maps suffice. You can actually walk it without maps of any kind, and just follow the arrows. A lot of people do that, but it's nice to have a small book that gives a general overview.
I've had land navigation training, but I paid little attention to the detail of the maps/drawings in the Brierley guidebook. I'd basically take a gander at the map in the morning, get an idea where I was heading and how far, and got my peregrino butt to steppin....

 

[Charles Hansen]

Thank you for the reference. I will look into it tonight.

The size and weight of this will provide the explanation for this:

. . . history and explanations of the art and architecture we are discovering when on the Camino is what I find lacks most from the current guides.

;-)

 

[Charles Hansen]

. . . who is not well versed or trained in orienteering, cartography or have had land navigation training (or even carry a compass with them on the CF)

That describes me, but I do have a preference for real maps. However, I will confess that sometimes there is a cheap compass on the top of my bike bell.

A major reason is this - if I get off the proscribed route for any reason, the Jakobs-Radweg maps will allow me to get back to it, likely on my own - so long as I don't stray too far. If you get off the Camino and only have JB, you will have to hope that a local resident will be willing and able to help you, because outside of the city maps he does a poor job of connecting to the reality on the ground. I think his guide is very good for its intended purpose, but I find his focus too "narrow" for my interests. ;-)

 

[Charles Hansen]

I am afraid that those notes from wonderful courses by the great Meyer Schapiro and Erwin Panofsky . . .

Panofsky - a true icon in art history . . .

 

[KinkyOne]

I'm not a walker, but have to disagree with that on the basis of quite recent investigation of the river route into Burgos. A few folks on this forum are quite fond of saying "just follow the arrows", but some of us like to research the various options in advance so we know what they are, and can take advantage of them. I'm sure that one can have a fine Camino by just following the arrows, but I should think that if you're really interested in the history, the culture, and the architecture, then you need to make some effort before you go to learn just what is out there, and decide where you want to go and what you want to see. Cycling certainly makes it much easier to take side trips, such as to San Millan de la Cogolla. However, if I was walking I would still want to know what the alternate routes were, so I could make a conscious decision instead of just following the crowd. Back to Burgos, it turns out that a fair number of people knew about the more pleasant river entry, but couldn't find it due to lack of arrows, and a guide book - particularly Hiking The Camino De Santiago would have greatly helped.

Couldn't agree more, Charles! But would like to add that my comment was purely about finding (orientating) and walking the route. If someone wants to research the route (as I did last year for Madrid & Invierno, and this year for Levante & Sanabres, where there is much less info) in advance and also take some kind of guide that is another topic.

Regarding entry into Burgos I found it - but through Villafria instead of Castanares I was using Brierley and missed the left turn before airport. I have very good sense of orientation and I'm also very good at noticing different signs, details etc. (professional deformation) but with massive hangover obviously I wasn't able to perform as usually In the end it came out as a right choice to find shelter during the worst half an hour storm I've encountered in years. I came to Burgos center tired but dry. Next time I'll surely look out for the leftleft option by the river

Ultreia!

 

[Charles Hansen]

Regarding entry into Burgos I found it - but through Villafria instead of Castanares I was using Brierley and missed the left turn before airport. I have very good sense of orientation and I'm also very good at noticing different signs, details etc. (professional deformation) but with massive hangover obviously I wasn't able to perform as usually In the end it came out as a right choice to find shelter during the worst half an hour storm I've encountered in years. I came to Burgos center tired but dry. Next time I'll surely look out for the leftleft option by the river

KinkyOne - to paraphrase Socrates, "The unexamined Camino is not worth walking".

I don't have JB handy, but Dintaman-Landis provide an excellent detailed paragraph on the river route. That left by the airport is just the first of two critical junctions, and there is a sign there arrowed for Castanares, but the big yellow arrow points to Villafria - which is undoubtedly why most people go that way. The more tricky location is at N-120 in Castanares, as apparently there are arrows turning right with it, but you need to cross over and go straight (initially) for the river route. If you're planning a big date with vino tinto, you might make some notes for yourself on the next day's route. ;-)

 

[KinkyOne]

KinkyOne - to paraphrase Socrates, "The unexamined Camino is not worth walking".

I don't have JB handy, but Dintaman-Landis provide an excellent detailed paragraph on the river route. That left by the airport is just the first of two critical junctions, and there is a sign there arrowed for Castanares, but the big yellow arrow points to Villafria - which is undoubtedly why most people go that way. The more tricky location is at N-120 in Castanares, as apparently there are arrows turning right with it, but you need to cross over and go straight (initially) for the river route. If you're planning a big date with vino tinto, you might make some notes for yourself on the next day's route. ;-)

Thanks CH, I've already seen all about it in Entry to Burgos thread. Nice maps you're doing (have also seen the one detouring Villamayor).

Well, ... Socrates.... ahm, won't get into that though...
And you don't have to tell me or anyone else how to do it, because I'll make my Camino the way I like it to be, examined (as I wrote I did!!!) or unexamined. Thank you...

Ultreia!

 

[Charles Hansen]

Nice maps you're doing (have also seen the one detouring Villamayor).

Thanks

And you don't have to tell me or anyone else how to do it

How so? I wasn't aware that I was.

 

[KinkyOne]

How so? I wasn't aware that I was.

Socrates was (via you)

 

[Charles Hansen]

Socrates was (via you)

I thought it was clear that was meant to be taken lightly - I must have forgotten to add a smiley face to make it obvious. (I can't hope to match you there ;-)

 

[DurhamParish]

Received my new 2015 Brierley CF book. It seems to be a bit smaller than previous editions, about 2 centimeters shorter from top to bottom. Also, it appears that some of his stages have changed. Not sure since I lost my previous edition.

 

[Andrea Mayfield]

I received the 2015 12th edition Brierley yesterday. The new version includes the river route into Burgos
Don't know how older books were organized but the new one shows 3 routes:
green for "...pilgrims seeking more solitude..."
purple for "...for experienced walkers seeking the silence of nature and a more solitary and challenging experience."
yellow for: "...The main camino..."

 

[jsalt]

I received the 2015 12th edition Brierley yesterday. The new version includes the river route into Burgos

Hi, my 2012 8th edition of Brierley had the river route into Burgos. I didn't understand why nobody else I met later also took it! Jill

 

[Andrea Mayfield]

Really good point!!! I just assumed it was an "unpublished route" known by only a few -- hence all the confusion about it. Well, you learn something new every day

 

[GettingThere]

Received my new 2015 Brierley CF book. It seems to be a bit smaller than previous editions, about 2 centimeters shorter from top to bottom. Also, it appears that some of his stages have changed. Not sure since I lost my previous edition.

Yes, I noticed that too. Some changes include the stage from Roncesvalles now ending at Zubiri (and a much less effusive description of the delights of Larrasoaña!) , and the following stage ending at Pamplona instead of Cizur Menor. There are others too - I think one ends in Bercianos instead of El Burgo Ranero. I have also noticed more town plans for smaller places, more marking of pharmacies and supermarkets on the town plans, and a few corrections to roads weirdly misaligned in earlier editions. Also the road alternatives in several places are now marked with the yellow "main route" dots, rather than the discouraging grey which as has been discussed elsewhere on the forum, can do a disservice to towns on those routes. There's also more info on some of the possible detours, including a full two pages on the route to the monasteries at San Millán. I like the smaller format of the new edition - it's very slightly lighter too.

 

[DurhamParish]

Found my old Brierley CF book. It was mixed in with some maps. Anyway, the new 2015 Brierley book is 2 cm. shorter and 20 grams lighter.