Botafumeiro: holy fire or cheap tourist thrill?

[Rebekah Scott]

The botafumeiro is the symbol of the pilgrim Mass in the Santiago cathedral.
When pilgrims are disappointed by their cathedral experience, it is often not due to the Mass or music, seating or incomprehensible language. It's because the botafumeiro, the giant incense burner, is not scheduled to "fly" the day they arrive.
The incense is supposed to be a part of the worship service, but nobody has any illusions about why hundreds of camera-toting visitors pack into every Mass where it appears. Tour groups pay hundreds of Euros to make sure the flames are lit when they are there.
Cathedral canons frown when crowds stand up to get a better view of the spectacle. They glare when the audience cheers or applauds the uniformed handlers and their careful choreography. But they make no effort to explain why the performance is something serious.

Not every Santiago pilgrim comes to the cathedral to make his confession and worship at the Mass. I daresay most sit through the service so they can see the big flaming finale.

What is your take on the botafumeiro? Is it an important part of worship, of winding up your pilgrimage? Is it a cynical way for the canons to attract more tourist donations? Why is it so beloved? Would your pilgrimage be any poorer without it?

 

[billmclaughlin]

We were traveling through Spain by car and visited the tomb of Saint James to mark my friend Jim's 50th birthday. So I was not viewing it as a pilgrim nor even as a hiker.

I found the swinging of the mammoth thurible a kind of anti-liturgy worthy of a theme park: Roman Catholic Land. The baroque exhibit.

I'd better stop there.

 

[Apple1954]

There was a thread on this recently and i was so disappointed to read that the Botafumeiro doesn't "fly" except for special occasions i.e. groups paying in advance and holy days. I saw the movie "The Way" and was so inspired by it and drawn to the whole experience of the pilgrims mass and the Botafumeiro at the end of the journey. While I'm not Catholic, but I am a Christian and very open to all type of liturgy it will be very sad not to have the chance to experience this beautiful part of THIS Catholic service. … Maybe not viewing as a pilgrim was why it didn't have the same effect...to each his own.

 

[Anne100]

The use of incense has long since been a part of Jewish and Christian traditions. It is mentioned in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. The smoke purifies, sanctifies and symbolically carries prayers to God. The sight of smoke and aroma of incense are part of the mystery of the Mass, of the transcendent link between heaven with earth which allows us to enter into the presence of God. Pretty important stuff.

The botafumeiro is part of a religious service, whether or not everyone in attendance is religious, and therefore deserves the same somber, quiet respect from those in attendance as the rest of the service. Cheering and applauding are not appropriate.

Psalm 141: "...let my prayer rise up to you like incense..."

You can read more about the use and significance of incense here:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/INCENSE.htm

 

[jirit]

Based on our more recent experience from our last walk this last spring, I would almost suggest the swinging of the botafumeiro has become an almost daily ritual. At least it was during our stay in Santiago this past May and June. It was done almost each day and on a few days, a number of times each day.

I am not sure if there are more and more groups willing to pay the money or there is some other factor for this daily event.

In my opinion by making it a daily event, it has lost some of its mystic and spiritual relevance. It is also troubling especially since almost half of the audience these days, seems determined to capture the moment on what ever digital photographic device possible.

 

[Kiwi-family]

I'm not Catholic (despite having eight kids <wink>), my husband didn't even want to go to the mass, but I convinced him to accompany the rest of us.
We LOVED it. We didn't care what people say about Disneyland or shows or or or......there was just *something* about that swing. Maybe something about taking part in a long tradition. Maybe something about roots (coz even us protestants were catholic once!) Maybe something that can't be articulated.
I'm just grateful that it was so special for us.

 

[julie]

On my previous visits to Santiago, I was disappointed to see the botafumeiro applauded. It seemed to me that the Mass was diminished because of it.

This year was different. The botafumeiro was not swung the first day I went to Mass but it was on the second and there was no applause afterwards. The entire Mass seemed to have more gravitas than in previous years. I put this down to the work of the security people who quietly tapped people on the shoulder and asked them to put away cameras and video cameras during the Mass. Though the use of cameras was condoned during the swinging of the botafumeiro, the reminders before and during the Mass has the effect of the congregation showing a respectful appreciation. For the first time I had the privilege of seeing it as a religious rather than as a theatrical event.

 

[vicrev]

I can't believe what I am reading here !! This is bordering on sacrilege!! You are all excommunicated!! (especially you Rebekah Scott for asking the Question ) Disneyland mentioned as well !!!........................Vicrev.....Don't forget, "Don't shoot the messenger " sometimes does not apply on this forum!!

 

[Tonyahobbs]

As an American Catholic, I have only seen incense used during Mass on very special occasions, and have certainly never seen anything like the botafumeiro in any of our churches. Therefore, that is just not something I'm expecting to see when I finish my pilgrimage. I want a true communion experience and to receive the blessing of a priest in the burial place of St. James. This will be a deeply and profoundly religious experience for me. The fact that others may view it as a bit of a tourist attraction is a little unsettling. I just hope that non-Catholics are mindful that the cathedral is a place of worship, and a very sacred one for religious pilgrims. For me, at least, what I'll be seeking on that glorious place has nothing whatsoever to do with a swinging ball of incense.

 

[Apple1954]

Um..that was quit a comment....you hope that non-Catholics are mindful that the cathedral is place of worship... I am absolutely mindful that the cathedral is a place of worship and for me it will indead be a very profoundly religious experience. Thank-you Anne100 for your post and the link

 

[Susannafromsweden]

As an American Catholic, I have only seen incense used during Mass on very special occasions, and have certainly never seen anything like the botafumeiro in any of our churches. Therefore, that is just not something I'm expecting to see when I finish my pilgrimage. I want a true communion experience and to receive the blessing of a priest in the burial place of St. James. This will be a deeply and profoundly religious experience for me. The fact that others may view it as a bit of a tourist attraction is a little unsettling. I just hope that non-Catholics are mindful that the cathedral is a place of worship, and a very sacred one for religious pilgrims. For me, at least, what I'll be seeking on that glorious place has nothing whatsoever to do with a swinging ball of incense.

Agree with Apple1954. This was quite a comment.
We all hope for different things, I suppose.
Myself, I hope I won't bump in to people who look down on Christians who aren't catholic.

 

[jennyb]

Agree with Apple1954. This was quite a comment.
We all hope for different things, I suppose.
Myself, I hope I won't bump in to people who look down on Christians who aren't catholic.

Well said Susannafromsweden! I am not Catholic, but religious in a spiritual sense. I absolutely loved the swinging of the botafumeiro purely as a traditional perspective. Silence reigned in the cathedral when it swung for the masses on 2 June 2012, the day after I arrived in Santiago and I went to mass especially to see this. LOL...I actually thought it was there to clear the air in the old days when people tended not to bath too often...I am humbly educated every day!

 

[BrianForbesColgate]

Rebekah wrote, “The botafumeiro is the symbol of the pilgrim Mass in the Santiago cathedral.”If that were the case, then the botafumeiro would be present at every pilgrim Mass, which it is not. Nonetheless, when it is, perhaps it can be both. For those who are walking the Camino as a Christian pilgrimage - whether Catholic or other variant - it can be a spiritual part of their experience of the Mass in that place, and for those who are there for other reasons it can be the ultimate Disney sideshow of the Camino. Perhaps it should be moved out of the pilgrim Mass completely and only displayed as a sideshow? Like everything in life, it is all in the eye ... and heart ... of the beholder. For my part, I will be quite happy if the Mass I attend does not include this “spectacle.” BTW, it is not the only censer of its ilk, nor is it the largest. I believe that title is held by one in Germany.

 

[niagarapilgrim]

The botafumeiro is the symbol of the pilgrim Mass in the Santiago cathedral.
When pilgrims are disappointed by their cathedral experience, it is often not due to the Mass or music, seating or incomprehensible language. It's because the botafumeiro, the giant incense burner, is not scheduled to "fly" the day they arrive.
The incense is supposed to be a part of the worship service, but nobody has any illusions about why hundreds of camera-toting visitors pack into every Mass where it appears. Tour groups pay hundreds of Euros to make sure the flames are lit when they are there.
Cathedral canons frown when crowds stand up to get a better view of the spectacle. They glare when the audience cheers or applauds the uniformed handlers and their careful choreography. But they make no effort to explain why the performance is something serious.

Not every Santiago pilgrim comes to the cathedral to make his confession and worship at the Mass. I daresay most sit through the service so they can see the big flaming finale.

What is your take on the botafumeiro? Is it an important part of worship, of winding up your pilgrimage? Is it a cynical way for the canons to attract more tourist donations? Why is it so beloved? Would your pilgrimage be any poorer without it?

I think this is about respect, personally. As Anglican, I am used to incense on feast days, etc., and I love it as a tradition and as a contributor to the solemn quality of the mass. I expect that visitors to my usual place of worship, a cathedral, will respect the tradition, even if they are not used to it. When I reached Santiago, the botafumeiro was not swung. A bit disappointing at the time, but for me, the highlight of the mass there was the cantor - her voice and her welcoming, inclusive manner of leading the music. I am put off by the treatment by tourists and some pilgrims of the Cathedral as a tourist site. If you aren't part of the tradition, that's fine, but it wouldn't kill you to treat it with respect. It isn't a stage performance, and you aren't a customer; applause is both inappropriate and disturbing to those who are participants in the mass. That said, I think that the canons could do a better job of informing people of the nature and purpose of the service, and "renting" the botafumeiro for a price contributes to the view that it's a tourist spectacle.

 

[SYates]

... I just hope that non-Catholics are mindful that the cathedral is a place of worship, and a very sacred one for religious pilgrims...

Please remember that Santiago wasn't Roman-Catholic, Protestant or of any other denomination, he was simply a Christian. More than being concerned about the behavior of non-Roman-Catholic pilgrims you should prepare yourself mentally for the behavior of the, often Roman-Catholic, tourists that outnumber them. And with tourists I mean those, without any judgement, that travel to Santiago by bus, train, plane to see the city and visit the cathedral during their vacations / long weekends.

As for the botafumeiro, yes, it is moving, for many reasons (history, sheer dedication, praying that it doesn't break loose and kills somebody ...) but my real spiritual experience was as I entered the cathedral for the first time and just as I stood in the main aisle, between the two organs, both organs started to play and the sacred music washed over me. Still getting goosebumps when I remember it, SY

 

[PadreQ]

As an Anglican priest, quite used to the weekly use of incense in the Mass. I found myself profoundly moved at the flight of the botafumeiro. It is part of the legitimate ceremonial of that cathedral. It would be a violence to take it out of its liturgical context. It is a fine way to finish one's pilgrimage. If it is just a stop before you get to the end of the world, it might be misunderstood. I love it!

 

[kitfox]

I just hope that non-Catholics are mindful that the cathedral is a place of worship, and a very sacred one for religious pilgrims.

I'm a former Catholic and current athiest with no particular love for the Catholic Church, but I don't see the problem with this comment. I know it wasn't aimed at me because I am always respectful in places of worship, no matter the denomination. It probably wasn't aimed at you folks, either.

I've visited many religious sites during my travels and while I can no longer be offended by misbehavior on religious grounds, I certainly do find flash photography, loud talking, blocking others' view of the artwork, etc. annoying in the extreme. I agree with anyone who comes down on the side of decorum.

That said, I also agree that charging for the opportunity to view a rite contributes to its devaluation. "Roman Catholic Land" indeed.

 

[Anne100]

This will be a deeply and profoundly religious experience for me. The fact that others may view it as a bit of a tourist attraction is a little unsettling. I just hope that non-Catholics are mindful that the cathedral is a place of worship, and a very sacred one for religious pilgrims.

Exactly. It's not looking down on anyone to expect others to be respectful of a place of worship. Any good traveler is respectful of holy places and any worshipers who might be there when they visit.

 

[jstorybook]

The church has always been historically practical as well as spiritual in practice--the practical purpose of the botafumeiro, the giant incense burner, was to help cover the smell of the pilgrims during the mass (back in Medieval times a pilgrim did not have the opportunity for a daily shower)--the spiritual purpose of an incense burner is to represent the prayers of the people symbolically rising to God. Worship--and whether anyone "gets" anything out of it--is largely the responsibility of the worshiper--not the one who leads worship. it would nice to be there when they used the incense burner--perhaps if we pilgrims smell bad enough they will use it more often lol.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

From Cathedral sources:

Ofrenda del Peregrino: Funcionamiento del Botafumeiro.

Todos los viernes en la misa de las 19:30 horas funcionará el Botafumeiro, como parte de la Ofrenda del Peregrino, gracias a la colaboración establecida entre la Catedral de Santiago, el Concello de Santiago, el Consorcio de Santiago, la Cámara de Comercio de Santiago y la Asociación Hostelería Compostela.

The Botafumeiro (literally ‘smoke spreader’ in Galician) is one of the most famous and popular symbols of the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela. This is a huge censer that swings up the aisles of the Cathedral through a pulley system pulled by eight men named tiraboleiros. It weighs 53kg and measures five feet. It is suspended from a height of 20 metres and can reach a speed of 70 miles per hour.

The Botafumeiro is used for liturgical purposes (in the same way as a priest would normally incense the altar) on the following Feast Days:

• The Epiphany of the Lord – 6 January
• Easter Sunday
• The Ascension of the Lord
• The Apparition of the Apostle – 23 May
• Pentecost Sunday
• The Martyrdom of Saint James – 25 July
• Assumption of the Blessed Virgin – 15 August
• All Saints – 1 November
• Christ the King
• Immaculate Conception – 8 December
• Birth of Jesus – 25 December
• Transfer of the body of the Apostle – 30 December

The Botafaumeiro may be used on other occasions when groups arrange this.

El Botafumeiro

El término en gallego “Botafumeiro” significa “el que echa humo” y se refiere al gran incensario existente en la Catedral compostelana. La primera referencia documental que se tiene del Botafumeiro es una anotación en una hoja del Códice Calixtino, en el que se le llama “Turibulum Magnum”. A lo largo de la historia hubo varios botafumeiros; actualmente hay dos ejemplares, uno en latón que data de 1851 y es obra de José Losada, sustituyó al robado durante la ocupación francesa y es el que se utiliza habitualmente. El segundo Botafumeiro es una réplica en plata del anterior y fue regalado al Apóstol por los Alféreces Provisionales en 1971. Únicamente se coloca en el crucero de la Catedral cuando funciona, guardándose habitualmente en la Biblioteca Capitular. El Botafumeiro se utiliza, o bien en las solemnidades litúrgicas de la Catedral, durante la procesión de entrada, o al finalizar la Eucaristía. Este gran incensario quiere simbolizar la verdadera actitud del creyente. Así como el humo del incienso sube hacia lo más alto de las naves del templo, así también las oraciones de los peregrinos deben alzarse hacia el corazón de Dios. Y así como el aroma del incienso perfuma toda la basílica compostelana, de igual modo el cristiano, con sus virtudes y el testimonio de su vida, debe impregnar del buen olor de Cristo, la sociedad en la que vive.

The Botafumeiro

The term in Galician "Botafumeiro" means "who smokes" and refers to the existing large incense burner in the Cathedral of Santiago. The first documented reference we have of Botafumeiro is a notation on a sheet of Calixtine Code, which is called "Turibulum Magnum". Throughout history there have been several Botafumeiros, now there are two copies, one in brass dating from 1851 and is the work of José Losada, replaced the stolen during the French occupation and is commonly used. The second Botafumeiro is a silver replica of the previous one and was given to the Apostle to the Provisional Second Lieutenants in 1971. Only be placed at the intersection of the Cathedral when it works, keeping regularly in the Chapter Library. The Botafumeiro is used, or in the liturgical solemnities of the Cathedral, during the entrance procession, or at the end of the Eucharist. This large censer meant to symbolize the true attitude of the believer. Just as the incense smoke rises to the top of the vessels of the temple, and also the prayers of the pilgrims must rise to the heart of God. And as the scent of incense perfumes the entire basilica Compostela, just as the Christian, their strengths and the testimony of his life, must permeate the aroma of Christ, the society in which he lives.

 

[Leingang27]

I would love to see the Botafumeiro when we are at the Pilgrim Mass. Since it is for only used for special feasts and groups, I am not counting on seeing it. I certainly don't have the funds required to make it appear at an out of ordinary time. It would be a wonderful cap to the experience of the Camino, but not essential for me. I don't have any problem with people clapping in church for this or any other reason. Clapping is a human response. Clapping is in the psalms. God understands us making a joyful noise for his glory.

 

[Tincatinker]

When God made me s/he made an anarchist, a sceptic and an agnostic. Yet I arrived at the Cathedral with a heart full of joyfull elation. But, to see the Botafumeiro swing? Spectacle; bread and circuses. The solstice sunrise at Stonehenge, a profound link with our spiritual past.

 

[AnnaJancova]

I was lucky to come to the mass with botafumeiro just by chance - after the noon pilgrim mass when I was really impressed by the cathedral, I wanted to explore it better and I came just during the mass with botafumeiro. I must say it was a great experience, although I cannot explain why, usually I am not into spectacular shows. Yes, there were people taking photos, waiting just for this moment, rather irrational and useless, but so are many habits and traditions people keep, but I barely noticed other people - for a little while I felt like an astonished child who sees Christmas tree for the first time... I experienced stronger moments than this one during my camino, but I am also grateful for botafumeiro, for this childish pleasure.

 

[andy.d]

It's the feast of St Augustine today. He had to break off at least one of his sermons due to the smell of a crowd of people enclosed in a church in high summer. Incense has practical as well as ceremonial and symbolic purposes, but I guess that is true of most liturgical worship. I've a soft spot fot the Botafumeiro, but the greatest profundity has been tthe Mass itself and also time in the tomb.

Andy

 

[peregrina2000]

I'm not a practicing Catholic, and I hesitate to give my opinion about a ritual that is important to Catholicism. But having entered Santiago on foot about a dozen times now, and having always been able to see the botafumeiro "in action," I have to admit I do look forward to it and am moved by it. On my first camino, I remember learning about the historical significance of the incense, which fit right in with the historical importance of Lavacolla. And from that Camino onwards, it became a part of my ritual in Santiago. And I mean ritual in the good sense, in the sense that reaffirms my connection with humanity, to partake in something that people have been doing for millenia -- it's just one more thing that happened long before I existed and will happen long after I'm gone. And when the botafumeiro swings, I feel like my Camino is done.

So for me, the botafumeiro is just one more point in time in which I try to make my peace with my mortality by rejoicing in the fact that there will be people watching this thing swing hundreds of years from now, hopefully enjoying the same profound sense of gratitude that I enjoy every day when I walk the Camino, but especially on the day that it ends.

 

[obinjatoo]

I had heard that it's expensive to light the botefumeiro and it no longer happens at every mass. So, I waited a day in Santiago for the Pilgrim's mass because All Saint's Day was one day away. I went to that mass and it was incredible! The Bishop was in attendance and the remains of saints and possibly Santiago himself was walked around the cathedral in a gilded sedan, followed by a band and chorus of monks. The cathedral was packed and we all stood shoulder to shoulder. That smoker flew right over my head and scared the crap out of me. It takes 7 monks to lift it and get it swinging. There was a choir singing and the cathedral bells were ringing and the organ was playing. It was so moving! I'm not even Catholic. I'm not concerned with any of the divisiveness among Christians. It was a profound and emotional experience that brought me to tears after all the trials and tribulations. All you folks who want to slam the "church" for it's corruption and what have you, or simply enjoy a trek through history, art and culture that's fine but try not to hamper pilgrims seeking an experience with God.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I'm not concerned with any of the divisiveness among Christians.

Part of that can be sensed from this thread, where some are concerned about others' conduct. Is applauding the event really that distressing? Even if we grant that applause is sacrilegious, why care about someone else's sacrilege? Serenity now...

 

[vicrev]

I seem to be missing something here,which is more important,the Botafumeiro or making it to Santiago Cathedral after a damn hard slog ? I would have thought to a true pilgrim the Cathedral would be the most important,the brass artifact secondary,leave it to the tourists fresh from Disneyland & Wallyworld(whatever Wally W is ) to gawk & write it off their bucket lists !!!........I'm probably wrong, the brass artifact seems to have more importance to most people than anything else ?? If that is not the case,why all this emotional discussion ??.........Vicrev

 

[mariposa627]

For me, walking through the plaza, being overwhelmed by the immenseness of the Cathedral as well as the moment, hugging the saint, goingto Mass, having the sign of peace where people were eager to shake hands, embrace and share the greeting in so many languages were all special, moving moments for me. The swinging of the butofumeiro was just another awe inspiring moment in time with the beautiful, soul stirring music, the hard work of the rope pullers, the sensual smell of the incense... a once in a lifetime experience for many.

It is the summation of all the moments along the journey that make the camino so lovely. Why begrudge anyone's expectations. We all have an expectation, it is how we are hardwired... May all those who desire to see the butofumeiro seing do so. It is a heartwarming experience. I was blessed to see it on July 2nd of this year. And pray that I will be able to visit Santiago again someday.
Ultreya! Michele

 

[Anne100]

& Wallyworld(whatever Wally W is )

Heh heh... we use the term "Wallyworld" to refer to Walmart. I think the term originated in the Chevy Chase movie Vacation (1983). The ultimate destination of the family in the movie was a fictional amusement park called "Wallyworld," which was actually what is now Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, California.

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[newfydog]

Every time I arrive in Santiago, I walk in and they are just starting mass, with the botafumeiro included. I am just lucky or blessed.

The men who pull the ropes are very special. Back in the days of Alfonso III, three men were convicted of " nefarious vices too ugly to be announced" They were sentenced to be thrown before a wild bull. The bull, knowing they were innocent, placed his head in their hands, and the king reduced the punishment to "eternal servitude to the cathedral" for the men and all their offspring. It is their descendants who pull the ropes today.

It has crashed into the crowd twice, in 1499 and 1622, but no one was hurt.

Here is the lady who sat next to me....hardly a tourist

 

[JohnMcM]

My first post on this forum borne out of confusion.

Are we not all the same and the Botafumerio will mean different things for us all, whoever we are, whatever we are. Regardless of what causes it to be flown, who we are, what we are, who or what we believe in surely does not matter as long as it means something to us?

 

[SYates]

...
The men who pull the ropes are very special. Back in the days of Alfonso III, three men were convicted of " nefarious vices too ugly to be announced" They wetre sentenced to be thrown before a wild bull. The bull, knowing they were innocent, placed his head in their hands, and the king reduced the punishment to "eternal servitude to the cathedral" for the men and all their offspring. It is their descendants who pull the ropes today.
...

Do you have a source / proof for that story??? SY

 

[newfydog]

Do you have a source / proof for that story??? SY

James Michener "Iberia" page 910 Random House Books 1968
Lots of fascinating things not found in the Brierley guide.

 

[vicrev]

Smart bull...............Vicrev

 

[SYates]

James Michener "Iberia" page 910 Random House Books 1968
Lots of fascinating things not found in the Brierley guide.

Sure, but are they true? I can't find anything about this story here http://mas.laopinioncoruna.es/suplementos/2010/03/28/tiraboleiros/ quite the opposite actually:

... y la mayoría son veteranos en estas lides: el último se incorporó hace diez años. Cuando llega alguno nuevo, por ejemplo durante las vacaciones de los titulares,...

... Cuando llega un tiraboleiro nuevo le explica ...

 

[vicrev]

Maybe another case of Urban Myth evolving into fact ? ..............Vicrev

 

[billmclaughlin]

Michener knew a good story and was happy to repeat it. File it away with the miraculous rooster and statues that weep.

And the fact IMHO remains that the Botafumeiro bears the same relationship to the liturgical use of incense as a torchlight maradi gras parade has to the liturgical use of candles.

Some people view this circus as something spiritual. Others think Cirque du Soleil does it better. And some have been to Las Vegas and report seeing the Eiffel Tower.

On a more serious note: I saw the spectacle in Santiago during the weekend following Ascension Thursday, a traditional time for the Spanish to visit Santiago in large groups, in 1999. At some point in the liturgy announcements were read out in several languages. Gallician and Castillian. French and then Italian. And then German. And we waited. And waited. But that was all -- the announcements were over. No English.

Now that was a special sort of blessing. We'd travelled the globe and now at the age of fifty we'd come to the end of the world. Apparently here at least on this day we were beyond the reach of our own culture. What was the strange sensation that came over us? We were over the rainbow.

 

[SYates]

Attributed to Mark Twain (me thinks) "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!" Buen Camino and may he be full of interesting stories, SY

 

[Anniesantiago]

I've watched it many times, and each time it is still spectacular!
Fills my heart with joy!

 

[JabbaPapa]

The original purpose of the botafumeiro was that during the Middle Ages, the large crowds of pilgrims (having no modern easy shower facilities) were large crowds of smellegrinos.

The botafumeiro was used to replace the sweaty smells of the Camino with the delicate smell of incense during the Mass.

 

[David]

I thought that it came into being to cover the stink of thousands of unwashed medieval pilgrims ... personally I love it. When I was a child I had polio and during the high fevers I remember being able to swing my mind back and forth, further and further on each 'swing' until I released from my body (they were very hot fevers) - the swinging of the scensor and the vertigo it produces takes me back to that time.

Newfydog - you took a photograph of an old woman in the Cathedral whilst she was at worship????????????????????

 

[newfydog]

Sure, but are they true? I can't find anything about this story here http://mas.laopinioncoruna.es/suplementos/2010/03/28/tiraboleiros/ quite the opposite actually:

... y la mayoría son veteranos en estas lides: el último se incorporó hace diez años. Cuando llega alguno nuevo, por ejemplo durante las vacaciones de los titulares,...

... Cuando llega un tiraboleiro nuevo le explica ...

Michener was told the story by Father Jesus Precedo Lafuente, a priest who was serving as canon of the cathedral. He was a Galician from La Coruna, studied in Rome and Jerusalem and was "the best kind of clerical intellectual". I guess you need to read "Iberia" and decide on the credibility yourself.

 

[newfydog]

.

Newfydog - you took a photograph of an old woman in the Cathedral whilst she was at worship????????????????????

Hey, it's not like I'm selling her photo on ebay.....

That "old lady" is a local nun. She has seen hundreds of Botemeiros, and I imagine a tourist or two. I shot from my lap with no flash, and after the mass I talked to her. She was very pleased to meet a trail worn pilgrim, particularly one who had started in Le Puy.
The lady to my right was interesting as well. She dove to my lap when the Botefueiro whooshed by! Not exactly a scene of solemn worship.

 

[newfydog]

The original purpose of the botafumeiro was that during the Middle Ages, the large crowds of pilgrims (having no modern easy shower facilities) were large crowds of smellegrinos.

The botafumeiro was used to replace the sweaty smells of the Camino with the delicate smell of incense during the Mass.

Padre Precedo mentions that as a popular theory, but says the custom was created by Archbishop Gelmirez to keep the cathedral unique, special, and on par with Rome.

 

[Irène Elisabet]

Michener knew a good story and was happy to repeat it. File it away with the miraculous rooster and statues that weep.

And the fact IMHO remains that the Botafumeiro bears the same relationship to the liturgical use of incense as a torchlight maradi gras parade has to the liturgical use of candles.

Some people view this circus as something spiritual. Others think Cirque du Soleil does it better. And some have been to Las Vegas and report seeing the Eiffel Tower.

On a more serious note: I saw the spectacle in Santiago during the weekend following Ascension Thursday, a traditional time for the Spanish to visit Santiago in large groups, in 1999. At some point in the liturgy announcements were read out in several languages. Gallician and Castillian. French and then Italian. And then German. And we waited. And waited. But that was all -- the announcements were over. No English.

Now that was a special sort of blessing. We'd travelled the globe and now at the age of fifty we'd come to the end of the world. Apparently here at least on this day we were beyond the reach of our own culture. What was the strange sensation that came over us? We were over the rainbow.

Wow, just wow...I can give no words to how offensive I find your comments. In this thread there is jumping all over a devout Catholic who simply hopes for respectful attitudes during a Catholic Mass but no one responds to this outwardly mocking and offensive post?? "torchlight maradi gras" "Cirque du Soleil" ? Really? I am dismayed after having read several comments in several threads that are specifically anti- Catholic but have never responded until now as I have also never found anyone to respond in kind. Is antiCatholicism the last socially approved form of bigotry? I've heard that in the mainstream media but even in the forum named for St. James?

Now I suppose following this post there will be a litany of abuse sent my way - go right ahead tell me how close minded and anti ecumenical, judgmental I am and all that rot.

 

[David]

Well, Irene - this is the first litany, but not abuse, I support you completely. There is a difference between freedom of speech and open rudeness and the horrid comments on here about a Roman Catholic religious practice I see as quite shameful. It is true that if one stands outside an experience it has no meaning ... but to make fun of it without regard to the feelings of those to whom it is important ... hhmm ... I wonder if they would be willing to write similar things about, say, Mecca, on an Islamic forum ...

Translate the name of this forum and it becomes "the Way of St James" - The Way of St James - think about this ... a Roman Catholic pilgrimage to the remains of St James in the great cathedral in Santiago ... all non Catholics are guests and the hosts are polite and courteous and welcoming ... is this the way to thank them? Is this the way to treats one's hosts? This is an open forum but let there be a little decorum here, a little respect .. it is like having to listen to young teenagers, full of themselves and their shallow bravado but with absolutely no understanding and nothing kind to say.

For shame.

 

[Irène Elisabet]

Well, Irene - this is the first litany, but not abuse, I support you completely. There is a difference between freedom of speech and open rudeness and the horrid comments on here about a Roman Catholic religious practice I see as quite shameful. It is true that if one stands outside an experience it has no meaning ... but to make fun of it without regard to the feelings of those to whom it is important ... hhmm ... I wonder if they would be willing to write similar things about, say, Mecca, on an Islamic forum ...

Translate the name of this forum and it becomes "the Way of St James" - The Way of St James - think about this ... a Roman Catholic pilgrimage to the remains of St James in the great cathedral in Santiago ... all non Catholics are guests and the hosts are polite and courteous and welcoming ... is this the way to thank them? Is this the way to treats one's hosts? This is an open forum but let there be a little decorum here, a little respect .. it is like having to listen to young teenagers, full of themselves and their shallow bravado but with absolutely no understanding and nothing kind to say.

For shame.

David - like I said I had no words but I am so grateful that you do. You puts my thoughts into words when I couldn't and you've restored the little chink in my peace regarding the Camino. I understand all are welcome and we are to be only respectful to all we meet and see but I'd like to continue (in perhaps a false hope) hoping that a devout Catholic, like myself and my husband - can still complete the Camino without undergoing outright mocking such as this for such an ancient and holy thing as blessed incense which is an integral part of the holy Catholic Mass.

 

[vicrev]

David......I would imagine there would be the same reaction with not only an Islam Forum also a Jewish, Protestant,Mormon, whatever Forum.When that religion is the object of fun & ridicule, sometimes people do it to hide their own shortcomings ..........I sometimes wonder why people with intolerance & disrespect walk a Camino.........It is a nececity in life as far as I am concerned, tolerance & respect of other peoples beliefs & religions..........................Vicrev

 

[MichaelB10398]

This is one of the unfortunate side effects of a Camino that opens its arms to all regardless of religion, social station, or race/culture. There will be those who ridicule or, in self-righteous pique, deprecate that which they do not understand, appreciate, and/or are wholly lacking of any faith.

Regardless of Jim's callous comments, I am gladdened that many on Camino attend the Mass. Though they may not understand the importance of all that is done, there is value in being exposed to it.

In addition, I remain gladdened that the Camino is so welcoming to so many. Some few will criticize, but the undeniable truth is that each walks a path that faithful Catholics have been walking for hundreds of years. Without their early footsteps on the Way, we would never have heard the call of the Camino or responded.

It is often best to look the other way or to ignore those comments and actions than to further entertain them. We each know why we are pilgrims; the reasons of others are as personal as our own and just as valid.

 

[Sue M]

I'd watched the botamfumeiro on Youtube and was disappointed at the beginning of July that it didn't swing at any of the four Masses I went to. However, when I was there earlier this month I saw it swing three times. It was wonderful, especially the first time. I came out of the cathedral with a big smile on my face, feeling like dancing. I am involved in leading worship in my own church and in a way all services are a stage production, with costumes, lighting, music, script etc. the botafumeiro adds smells! It is all designed to heighten the sense of God being present. I'm in favour of anything that does that. I am not a Catholic because I was brought up in the Anglican Church in England, but I received communion in Santiago, which is usually accepted when you travel to Catholic countries and are a communicant member of the Anglican church. I want a botafumeiro in my church! I can see it would lose its impact if it were used at every Mass, but I do hope it will swing whenI am there with my husband on 21 October. It is possible to enjoy walking, be an Anglican, and still take a full part in a Catholic Mass, entering fully into the spirituality and worship as well as taking photos as the botafumeiro hurtles overhead billowing out smoke, and glowing with hot incense as it swings the other way! Don't glare at us, priests, rejoice that your cathedral is full of people worshipping God!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is ironic that everyone who criticizes the botafumeiro has seen it! (I don't criticize the Kardashians because I have never seen one; just their occasional headline as it leaps off the internet page.)

If you don't like something, it is better to simply ignore it.

Some who are offended by billmclaughlin may want to read his post again. I think you may be missing what he has said. Or I may be missing something...

 

[vicrev]

hasnt changed since I last read it,I can understand why people are offended......Vlcrev

 

[Icacos]

Regardless of Irene's callous comments ....

An oversight/honest mistake, maybe? I don't see anything callous about Irene's comments.

 

[Irène Elisabet]

This is one of the unfortunate side effects of a Camino that opens its arms to all regardless of religion, social station, or race/culture. There will be those who ridicule or, in self-righteous pique, deprecate that which they do not understand, appreciate, and/or are wholly lacking of any faith.

Regardless of Irene's callous comments, I am gladdened that many on Camino attend the Mass. Though they may not understand the importance of all that is done, there is value in being exposed to it.

In addition, I remain gladdened that the Camino is so welcoming to so many. Some few will criticize, but the undeniable truth is that each walks a path that faithful Catholics have been walking for hundreds of years. Without their early footsteps on the Way, we would never have heard the call of the Camino or responded.

It is often best to look the other way or to ignore those comments and actions than to further entertain them. We each know why we are pilgrims; the reasons of others are as personal as our own and just as valid.

Please help me to understand what was callous about my comments??

 

[MichaelB10398]

Hello Irene, what you said that was calloused was NOT you, it was Bill's comment when he compared the Catholic Mass to torch light mardi gras parade.

You gave wonderful comments. It was my error and I apologize for it. I edited my comment to reflect that it was Bill's comment.

 

[Irène Elisabet]

Hello Irene, what you said that was calloused was NOT you, it was Bill's comment when he compared the Catholic Mass to torch light mardi gras parade.

You gave wonderful comments. It was my error and I apologize for it. I edited my comment to reflect that it was Bill's comment.

God bless you Michael - I am being overly sensitive.

 

[Wanderer64]

To answer the OP's question, the botafumeiro is both a holy fire and a cheap tourist thrill, and anything else a person deems it. Obviously, it will mean different things to different people and I see nothing wrong with that. I see no malice or ridicule in any of the previous comments.

I do find it odd and a bit ironic that some of the devout folk expressing anger here, the ones who should be most secure in their faith, seem the most insecure when it comes to dealing with opinions that don't align with theirs.

The Camino has evolved into diverse pilgrimage/trek that attracts ALL walks of life, a bit like life itself. All the more reason to expect and tolerate opinions about it that don't mesh with your own.

 

[t2andreo]

I would like to help try to place the use of the Botafumeiro in a liturgical and practical context. Within this context, most of the comments made above can be better understood. All of the above comments have value, even if I disagree with them. Remember, in life, context is everything...

In the Catholic liturgy, the use of censers has traditionally been to bless the altar, church, congregants, and celebrants (priests, deacons) BEFORE and DURING the Holy Mass. The use of a censer AFTER the actual liturgy is usually reserved for funerals, when the coffin / casket may be incensed a final time, blessing it before it leaves the church. Being raised in the Latin church - pre-Vatican II - I seem to recall the censer also being used at the end of some high Masses and Weddings. But I could be wrong. I served at altar as a young boy and seem to recall spooning incense into the much smaller censer at the Latin-rite Masses (1960s).

So, in Santiago de Compostela, we have I suspect the contemporary use of the huge censer (the Botafumeiro) outside it's normal historical context. I would suggest that, back in the day (Middle Ages) the censer was likely used at the beginning of the Mass to bless the altar, the celebrants and the congregants, and perhaps during the Mass, such as just before the reading of the Gospel and before the Eucharistic / Communion Rite - slightly after the Our Father is recited.

As has been oft stated here and elsewhere, the historical context also suggests that the type of incense used in the Botafumeiro and the volume of incensed smoke were in part intended to mask the smells of hoards of unwashed pilgrims. Trust me, there are various types of incense that can be used at different liturgical season of the year. I believe from observation and experience that the type used in the Botafumeiro in the Santiago Cathedral is a far milder mixture than could be used. If you doubt this, just ask a practicing Eastern Rite Orthodox Christian (Greek, Russian, Armenian, etc.). In this regard, I suspect a milder scented blend is used in case someone out there is allergic to the incense. There is such an allergy. Please correct me on this if I misstated.

Thus, I suggest that the use of the Botafumeiro at the end of the Mass, after the final blessing, is a calculated move on the part of the Archbishop to do a number of things - primary of which is to maintain some semblance of order, respect, and silence. In the film "The Way," the editing makes the Botafumeiro ceremony appear to be somewhere in the middle of the Mass. This is misleading. Also, I believe the fellows pulling on the rope harness are lay persons (not Monks) and are members of a Cathedral society devoted to the care, feeding, and swinging of the Botafiumeiro.

However, given the behavior of many people, of all backgrounds, nationalities, races, religious persuasion, philosophies, etc., certainly including many Catholics, when the Botafumeiro is used, an informed decision appears to have been made to move the Botafumeiro ceremony to the recessional, after the end of the Mass. Those of you who have attended the Pilgrim Mass and other Masses at the Cathedral can confirm that the Botafumeiro does not move until AFTER the final blessing is said and the celebrant (priest) dismisses the congregation..."...Go in Peace the Mass is ended..." Thus, and albeit technically, the Botafumeiro is no longer a formal part of the Liturgy.

If I am correct then the context for the Botafumeiro ceremony is therefore changed (technically) from liturgical to historical. I saw the ceremony to be part of the recessional music played at so many religious services of various faiths.

I can certainly understand the displeasure of anyone who thinks applause is disrespectful. I share this feeling. But I offer two perspectives. First, I have been at many weddings, in the U.S. and in Europe, Christian, non-Christian and secular, where the congregation applauds the newly married couple after the ceremony or Mass, when they turn from facing the celebrant to facing the assembled persons, before they process out of the wedding place.

Secondly, and I think this is the entire point of my "homily" here, the Camino de Santiago, with the Pilgrim Mass, and the Botafumeiro has moved beyond being exclusively a Roman Catholic enterprise (if you will) to an ecumenical service. Once the United Nations (UNESCO) acknowledged and proclaimed the Camino Frances and Santiago de Compostela to be World Heritage Sites, the entire context for the Botafumeiro ceremony changed. Originally and for over one thousand years, solely a Roman Catholic pilgrimage, now the Camino, Cathedral and attendant ceremonies should be seen in their expanded cultural, historical, archaeological, and political contexts.

So, and in conclusion (whew), if you look at the Botafumeiro ceremony in the expanded context of history, archaeology, politics, and religion, one can understand why the Botofumeiro ceremony was moved outside the actual Holy Mass. This was likely done because of the wide cultural appeal and the public attention, respect, silence, or lack of same.

Simply put, I believe they moved the ceremony to after the Mass and outside the Catholic liturgy to: (1) preserve the dignity and sanctity of the Liturgy; (2) maintain control of a diverse and mostly uncontrollable group of attendees (If they did it earlier, control of the Mass would be lost for good); and (3) to maintain the Botafumeiro ceremony as a regular demonstration of a precious historical and cultural practice.

So, if you only want to see the Botafumeiro, come later. If you do attend the entire Catholic Mass and stay for he demonstration of the Botafumeiro ceremony, please remain as silent as possible and be as respectful as the situation dictates. Obviously, if 95 percent of the pope three are trying to get photos, you might as well join in. But, please know that the Mass is over... Take your photos or video QUIETLY. Never mind the others.

I hope this helps. I tried not to repeat the comments above, and to add some value to the dialog.

 

[Deleted member 22638]

The Camino has evolved into diverse pilgrimage/trek that attracts ALL walks of life, a bit like life itself. All the more reason to expect and tolerate opinions about it that don't mesh with your own.

I think you are right but I hope you would agree in return that to express differing views should not intentionally stray into giving offence

If somebody is not aware of the significance of various parts of the pilgrim Mass to others then should they not tread sensitively while still giving their view? Otherwise they would risk unintended offence .

I think I recall in your first post you thought the pilgrim Mass was a piece of absurd theatre, not unreasonable if one is a convinced secularist/ atheist but I wonder if you knew the offence it would give or indeed if you knew whether you cared ? - had you and I been on the Camino we could have talked about it - on a forum it is much more difficult.

So I genuinely agree that you should be able to express freely your experiences but lets try and keep away from the forum the growing antagonism between those of faith and those of none

 

[pudgypilgrim]

The use of a censer AFTER the actual liturgy is usually reserved for funerals

Hmm, it's been a lot of years, of course, but I seem to remember always knowing that there would be Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament or something like that if they got out the thurible at the end of Mass, pre-Vatican II.

I have to say I'm extremely puzzled by all the comments about using the incense to cover up the smell of pilgrims during the Middle Ages. Pilgrims, once they got where they were going, bathed exactly as much as they would have done at home. I doubt very much that the average pilgrim was any smellier than any other hard working peasant. Don't forget that in those days everyone went to church all the time then, not just on special occasions. Packed cathedrals were the norm. I would like very much to see even one actual original reference supporting the smell theory.

 

[Wanderer64]

Kevin,

This a pretty respectful group of people we have using this forum, I don't think anyone sets out to offend anyone else, at least not from what I've read here. And there's a big difference between intentionally trying to offend and taking offence.

Anytime there's a discussion of religion, no matter how respectful and civil, some (on both sides of issue) will take offence. This is especially the case in online forums like this. You are very right that this discussion would play out very differently if we met along the Camino. And that's why I value my real-time Camino experiences a lot more (or differently) than any online Camino discussions. It's the nature of the medium.

 

[lynnejohn]

Just a little non-scholarly item, for background (and in no way proves or disproves the use of the botafumeiro for odor control):

Why Bathing Was Uncommon in Medieval Europe
JULIA MAY 3, 2011 16
Today I found out that why bathing was uncommon in Medieval Europe.

Before the Middle Ages, public baths were very common, as was the general public regularly taking time to bathe in one way or another. Even during the 4th and 5th centuries, Christian authorities allowed people to bathe for cleanliness and health, but condemned attendance to public bath houses for pleasure and condemned women going to bath houses that had mixed facilities. However, over time, more and more restrictions appeared. Eventually, Christians were prohibited from bathing naked and, overall, the church began to not approve an “excessive” indulgence in the habit of bathing. This culminated in the Medieval church authorities proclaiming that public bathing led to immorality, promiscuous sex, and diseases.

This latter “disease” point was very common; it was believed in many parts of Europe that water could carry disease into the body through the pores in the skin. According to one medical treaty of the 16th century, “Water baths warm the body, but weaken the organism and widen pores. That’s why they can be dangerous and cause different diseases, even death.” It wasn’t just diseases from the water itself they were worried about. They also felt that with the pores widened after a bath, this resulted in infections of the air having easier access to the body. Hence, bathing became connected with spread of diseases, not just immorality.

For most lower class citizens, particularly men, this resulted in them completely forgoing bathing. During this time, people tended to restrict their hygienic arrangements to just washing hands, parts of the face, and rinsing their mouths. Washing one’s entire face was thought to be dangerous as it was believed to cause catarrh and weaken the eyesight, so even this was infrequent.

Members of the upper classes, on the other hand, rather than completely forgo bathing, tended to cut down their full body bathing habits down to around a few times per year, striking a balance between risk of acquiring a disease from the bath vs. body stench.

This wasn’t always the case though. As one Russian ambassador to France noted “His Majesty [Louis XIV] stunk like a wild animal.” Russians were not so finicky about bathing and tended to bathe fairly regularly, relatively speaking, generally at least once a month. Because of this, they were considered perverts by many Europeans. King Louis XIV stench came from the fact that his physicians advised him to bathe as infrequently as possible to maintain good health. He also stated he found the act of bathing disturbing. Because of this, he is said to have only bathed twice in his lifetime. Another in this “gruesome two-some” class among the aristocracy was Queen Isabel I of Spain who once confessed that she had taken a bath only twice in her lifetime, when she was first born and when she got married.

To get around the water/disease and sinful nature of bathing, many aristocrats during the Middle Ages replaced bathing with scented rags to rub the body and heavy use of perfumes to mask their stench. Men wore small bags with fragrant herbs between the shirt and waistcoat, while women used fragrant powders.

Amazingly, this complete lack of personal hygiene in most of Europe lingered until around the mid-19th century.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Having been at the Pilgrims' Mass several times, both with and without the botofumeiro, each time was spiritually meaningful. I can remember the botofumeiro swinging after as well as during the service. The latter was Pentecost with a full procession very early in the Mass. The last occasion was the inauguration of the Amigos in 2012 at the very end of the Mass. It is the only occasion when it finally seemed right to join others by using my (flashless) camera and I have an amazing video clip with sound. That and leaving the cathedral to 'Guide me O Thou great Redeemer' was the perfect end to a Camino. Equally, but in a different way was the Mass without botofumeiro the previous year.

I was going to comment that folks did do what they did at home, and smelled the same, as bathing was an uncommon event, but Lynnejohn has put it so much better.

 

[pudgypilgrim]

To the best of my knowledge, the Catholic Church never at any time prohibited bathing.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

A History of Private Life:

Scrupulous, highly restrictive precautions were taken in . . . monasteries. At Cluny the custom required the monks to take a full bath twice a year, at the holidays of renewal, Christmas and Easter; but they were exhorted not to uncover their pudenda." (p. 525)
While mixed bathing was discouraged by the Church, records exist that baths were used as social affairs, with banquets and wedding feasts being joined with the baths.

Shahan, Thomas J. "Baths and Bathing in the Middle Ages," The Middle Ages: Sketches and Fragments. (New York: Benzinger Brothers, 1904), pp. 286-296.

In the 4th and 5th centuries CE, 'fathers of the Christian Church' such as Clement and Jerome condemned excessive attendance at the public baths, and attendance for pleasure. Because bathhouses had mixed facilities, church authorities condemned women's attendance at mixed gender bathhouses. Jerome, more strict than most, felt that female virgins should not bathe with other women (due to his distaste for pregnancy), and that they should not bathe naked. However, Shahan argues that bathing was not forbidden: "The 'Apostolic Constitutions,' an old episcopal manual originally compiled about the beginning of the third century of our era, look upon the use of the bath as quite a manner of course, and only provide against certain abuses... The early Fathers, in general, had no objection to baths being used for cleanliness or health . . ." (p. 287,289)

 

[pudgypilgrim]

Thanks, Falcon!

 

[lynnejohn]

I did say the article I cited wasn't scholarly ...

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I did say the article I cited wasn't scholarly ...

How scholarly is two baths a year??

There are a lot of articles on why Europe avoided bathing -- lots of myths and semi-science. I was mostly interested in an official position by the Catholic church. It did generally view bathing as licentious, since it was generally communal and often co-ed. It clearly discouraged the sensual nature of bathing, but does not seem to have had a ban. Popes like the ones that vandalized the genitalia on statues might have had short-term prohibitions. When authority gets its dander up, strange things can happen!

 

[MendiWalker]

I would like to help try to place the use of the Botafumeiro in a liturgical and practical context. Within this context, most of the comments made above can be better understood. All of the above comments have value, even if I disagree with them. Remember, in life, context is everything...

In the Catholic liturgy, the use of censers has traditionally been to bless the altar, church, congregants, and celebrants (priests, deacons) BEFORE and DURING the Holy Mass. The use of a censer AFTER the actual liturgy is usually reserved for funerals, when the coffin / casket may be incensed a final time, blessing it before it leaves the church. Being raised in the Latin church - pre-Vatican II - I seem to recall the censer also being used at the end of some high Masses and Weddings. But I could be wrong. I served at altar as a young boy and seem to recall spooning incense into the much smaller censer at the Latin-rite Masses (1960s).

So, in Santiago de Compostela, we have I suspect the contemporary use of the huge censer (the Botafumeiro) outside it's normal historical context. I would suggest that, back in the day (Middle Ages) the censer was likely used at the beginning of the Mass to bless the altar, the celebrants and the congregants, and perhaps during the Mass, such as just before the reading of the Gospel and before the Eucharistic / Communion Rite - slightly after the Our Father is recited.

As has been oft stated here and elsewhere, the historical context also suggests that the type of incense used in the Botafumeiro and the volume of incensed smoke were in part intended to mask the smells of hoards of unwashed pilgrims. Trust me, there are various types of incense that can be used at different liturgical season of the year. I believe from observation and experience that the type used in the Botafumeiro in the Santiago Cathedral is a far milder mixture than could be used. If you doubt this, just ask a practicing Eastern Rite Orthodox Christian (Greek, Russian, Armenian, etc.). In this regard, I suspect a milder scented blend is used in case someone out there is allergic to the incense. There is such an allergy. Please correct me on this if I misstated.

Thus, I suggest that the use of the Botafumeiro at the end of the Mass, after the final blessing, is a calculated move on the part of the Archbishop to do a number of things - primary of which is to maintain some semblance of order, respect, and silence. In the film "The Way," the editing makes the Botafumeiro ceremony appear to be somewhere in the middle of the Mass. This is misleading. Also, I believe the fellows pulling on the rope harness are lay persons (not Monks) and are members of a Cathedral society devoted to the care, feeding, and swinging of the Botafiumeiro.

However, given the behavior of many people, of all backgrounds, nationalities, races, religious persuasion, philosophies, etc., certainly including many Catholics, when the Botafumeiro is used, an informed decision appears to have been made to move the Botafumeiro ceremony to the recessional, after the end of the Mass. Those of you who have attended the Pilgrim Mass and other Masses at the Cathedral can confirm that the Botafumeiro does not move until AFTER the final blessing is said and the celebrant (priest) dismisses the congregation..."...Go in Peace the Mass is ended..." Thus, and albeit technically, the Botafumeiro is no longer a formal part of the Liturgy.

If I am correct then the context for the Botafumeiro ceremony is therefore changed (technically) from liturgical to historical. I saw the ceremony to be part of the recessional music played at so many religious services of various faiths.

I can certainly understand the displeasure of anyone who thinks applause is disrespectful. I share this feeling. But I offer two perspectives. First, I have been at many weddings, in the U.S. and in Europe, Christian, non-Christian and secular, where the congregation applauds the newly married couple after the ceremony or Mass, when they turn from facing the celebrant to facing the assembled persons, before they process out of the wedding place.

Secondly, and I think this is the entire point of my "homily" here, the Camino de Santiago, with the Pilgrim Mass, and the Botafumeiro has moved beyond being exclusively a Roman Catholic enterprise (if you will) to an ecumenical service. Once the United Nations (UNESCO) acknowledged and proclaimed the Camino Frances and Santiago de Compostela to be World Heritage Sites, the entire context for the Botafumeiro ceremony changed. Originally and for over one thousand years, solely a Roman Catholic pilgrimage, now the Camino, Cathedral and attendant ceremonies should be seen in their expanded cultural, historical, archaeological, and political contexts.

So, and in conclusion (whew), if you look at the Botafumeiro ceremony in the expanded context of history, archaeology, politics, and religion, one can understand why the Botofumeiro ceremony was moved outside the actual Holy Mass. This was likely done because of the wide cultural appeal and the public attention, respect, silence, or lack of same.

Simply put, I believe they moved the ceremony to after the Mass and outside the Catholic liturgy to: (1) preserve the dignity and sanctity of the Liturgy; (2) maintain control of a diverse and mostly uncontrollable group of attendees (If they did it earlier, control of the Mass would be lost for good); and (3) to maintain the Botafumeiro ceremony as a regular demonstration of a precious historical and cultural practice.

So, if you only want to see the Botafumeiro, come later. If you do attend the entire Catholic Mass and stay for he demonstration of the Botafumeiro ceremony, please remain as silent as possible and be as respectful as the situation dictates. Obviously, if 95 percent of the pope three are trying to get photos, you might as well join in. But, please know that the Mass is over... Take your photos or video QUIETLY. Never mind the others.

I hope this helps. I tried not to repeat the comments above, and to add some value to the dialog.

I think you´ve nailed it.

Buen Camino!

 

[vicrev]

I hope we are not going to have an in depth discussion about peoples bathing habits.......................Vicrev

 

[MendiWalker]

To the best of my knowledge, the Catholic Church never at any time prohibited bathing.

No it hasn´t.
But the Reyes Catolicos, Fernando & Isabel used it as one of the reasons to expel the Moors from Spain among others.

Buen Camino!

 

[santi]

Every Friday in 2014 from April 1 to December 31 and after the 19:30 mass Botafumeiro works as part of the offering of the Pilgrim, thanks to the collaboration between the Cathedral, the City Council, the Consortium of Santiago, the chamber of Commerce and Hospitality Association Compostela ..

We can see the swinging of the Botafumeiro the rest of the year here: http://www.horariosbotafumeiro.com

 

[susanglori]

Once the United Nations (UNESCO) acknowledged and proclaimed the Camino Frances and Santiago de Compostela to be World Heritage Sites, the entire context for the Botafumeiro ceremony changed. Originally and for over one thousand years, solely a Roman Catholic pilgrimage, now the Camino, Cathedral and attendant ceremonies should be seen in their expanded cultural, historical, archaeological, and political contexts.

I disagree. Although it is wonderful thing that UNESCO has recognized the Camino and the pilgrimage, the Cathedral and attendant ceremonies are still Catholic. The Cathedral is still a building of the Catholic Church, the Mass is still a Catholic Mass and the incense, whether in a small thurifer or large botafumeiro, is still part of that Mass. The non-Catholics in attendance are welcome, to be sure, but they are there as guests of the Catholic Church.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The non-Catholics in attendance are welcome, to be sure, but they are there as guests of the Catholic Church.

I have never heard it described that way before.

 

[Nancita]

We were traveling through Spain by car and visited the tomb of Saint James to mark my friend Jim's 50th birthday. So I was not viewing it as a pilgrim nor even as a hiker.

I found the swinging of the mammoth thurible a kind of anti-liturgy worthy of a theme park: Roman Catholic Land. The baroque exhibit.

I'd better stop there.

(edited) I was at the Cathedral at a time when there was no "Camino" event taking place. There was, however, a special festival going on for students. I had been a student at the University of Valencia for the entire summer before I made it to Compostela, so I had a bit of familiarity with the way things are around there.
I had also heard the history (from my Spanish-native history professor) of the Botafumeiro in Compostela.
It happens to date from the middle ages, the year escapes me, and was NOT put there to impress 21st century tourists. Its origin comes from something a bit practical, as it was erected during plague times. From one version of the origin story I heard, the incense was believed to run out the germs/evil vapors that caused the plague. I'd say that is less sensational or show-offy than you were assuming.

 

[Nancita]

I think you´ve nailed it.

Buen Camino!

Thank you for sharing all this detail. My comment pointed out only one potential origin for the Botafumeiro - that of potentially killing germs in a very crowded space with poorly-bathed, and probably germ-ridden pilgrims.
Of course, the notion of raising the smoke to the heavens is a universally known gesture (Native Americans come to mind) so the detail you provided here is really nice to have. Mil gracias! Obrigada!

 

[CaminoDebrita]

The botafumeiro is the symbol of the pilgrim Mass in the Santiago cathedral.
When pilgrims are disappointed by their cathedral experience, it is often not due to the Mass or music, seating or incomprehensible language. It's because the botafumeiro, the giant incense burner, is not scheduled to "fly" the day they arrive.
The incense is supposed to be a part of the worship service, but nobody has any illusions about why hundreds of camera-toting visitors pack into every Mass where it appears. Tour groups pay hundreds of Euros to make sure the flames are lit when they are there.
Cathedral canons frown when crowds stand up to get a better view of the spectacle. They glare when the audience cheers or applauds the uniformed handlers and their careful choreography. But they make no effort to explain why the performance is something serious.

Not every Santiago pilgrim comes to the cathedral to make his confession and worship at the Mass. I daresay most sit through the service so they can see the big flaming finale.

What is your take on the botafumeiro? Is it an important part of worship, of winding up your pilgrimage? Is it a cynical way for the canons to attract more tourist donations? Why is it so beloved? Would your pilgrimage be any poorer without it?

I am eager to embark on my journey to Spain, and while I would be glad to see the Botafumeiro, I have allowed plenty of days at the end of my journey to enjoy mass. If it happens, it is meant to be. If it does not happen (the swinging of the Botafumeiro), my heart will still be glad, I will be in the presence of God, and I will enjoy my time in the glorious cathedral.

Nothing is to be taken for granted. It always surprises me when people make assumptions that events and occurrences will happen, and then they are disappointed when they don't. Everything is a blessing My health. My family. Waking up every day. To just expect the Botafumeiro is to set yourself up, and also to reveal a negative aspect of human behavior: wanting, expectation, almost an entitlement.

I'll be grateful for anything.

 

[Walid Medawar]

I'm Devoted Catholic and 2 weeks back I was in Santiago, and after the Pilgrimage mass , the botafumeiro swing. For me I was there for the Spiritual growth that a pilgrim would feel after every camino, and I entered the mass to be reconciled with My Savior, during the Mass I was fully concentrating about Liturgy but yet the Botafumeiro had something of magic. It wasn't for me neither Disney nor distraction , rather than lovely prayer performed not by words but through the hand of those who are swinging it.

I would like to add that the Camino shall always remain a Catholic Pilgrimage open to everyone. trying to making it as UNESCO Heritage ect ... can't be applied here and I'm talking not from a catholic point of view but rather from the point that "The End Point of every Camino is what define the Camino", so the Camino of St James is a catholic Pilgrimage , as the Gangas River is for Hindus or Mecca for Muslim. Regardless of your Point of view you need always to adhere to the original. And To Be Honest, I find it disrespectful to deprive the Way of St James from it's catholic Roots. If you're not believer, and you can't walk the camino as "Catholic Pilgrimage Open for all", I suggest at least to change your destination.

At the end I'm sorry for some of the comments I read in the forum, not because it was disrespectful but also because a Pilgrimage should be a journey or search of moral or spiritual significance. It seems many didn't find the purpose of it .

 

[grayland]

Gently folks.

We are moving very close to that fine line regarding Religious Discussion.
I am not sure there is much to be added here that does not offend someone.

Please think carefully before posting.

Thanks for understanding.

 

[Nancita]

My experience with the Botafumeiro was totally unexpected. The entire time I was there was a fluke - my itinerary was totally sidetracked. In that sense, I felt that my experience seeing the Botafumeiro was a gift. I hadn't even expected to see it when I went into the Cathedral. It was a totally spontaneous experience. In that sense, I felt it was a special gift. If I had planned for months specifically to see the Botafumeiro, I may have just missed it altogether. You never know.

I agree with you that your experience is what it is, and it's ALL good.

 

[Nancita]

I do understand, but please be aware that you can't talk about these ancient practices without mentioning the mystical. I don't think anyone is preaching here, either - just sharing their experience. This topic, in particular, touches on that, whether the more secular thinkers here care or not.
I happen to be taught as a practitioner in Native American traditions (My husband was full blood, I'm part). I am not Catholic, nor do I consider myself to be Christian.
I respect the origins of this practice mentioned here and don't see how we can talk about WHAT it is, without touching on its spiritual origins. As I mentioned before, the Botafumeiro has also been described as a tool to clean the air from massive amounts of infection carried by so many people traveling long distance by foot in an age when bathing was not considered important.

 

[Nancita]

One more comment about the Botafumeiro, and I think this is important for people to know.
Because its origins are in Catholic ceremony, its use was very much tied to the Church calendar. Back in 1979 when I was there, its appearance was only a handful of times a year, especially on special ceremony dates, such as the beginning of a new 5-year cycle in the Church calendar. It was NOT brought out for tourist purposes. We were even advised that it would be unusual to see it.
Maybe that has changed with the upsurge in popularity of the Camino itself.

 

[peregrina2000]

One more comment about the Botafumeiro, and I think this is important for people to know.
Because its origins are in Catholic ceremony, its use was very much tied to the Church calendar. Back in 1979 when I was there, its appearance was only a handful of times a year, especially on special ceremony dates, such as the beginning of a new 5-year cycle in the Church calendar. It was NOT brought out for tourist purposes. We were even advised that it would be unusual to see it.
Maybe that has changed with the upsurge in popularity of the Camino itself.

Yes, I think it's undeniable that the Cathedral's change in practices is in reponse to the huge increase in interest. Not sure what I think of the fact that you can buy a "swinging" for 350 (and get front row seats for the mass you've paid for), but given the expense of operating the cathedral, I certainly understand it. I don't know if this was mentioned in this thread (I confess I haven't gone back to read all the early posts), but the hotel association of Santiago has paid for the botafumeiro to swing every Friday at the 7 (?) pm mass, so that's at least one instance in which its appearance is guaranteed. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Nancita]

That's rather crass, I'd say...AND disappointing. It used to be all that more special if you could just make it on a special day.
I feel special.

 

[billmclaughlin]

I was at the Cathedral at a time when there was no "Camino" event taking place. There was, however, a special festival going on for students. I had been a student at the University of Valencia for the entire summer before I made it to Compostela, so I had a bit of familiarity with the way things are around there.
I had also heard the history (from my Spanish-native history professor) of the Botafumeiro in Compostela.
It happens to date from the middle ages, the year escapes me, and was NOT put there to impress 21st century tourists. Its origin comes from something a bit practical, as it was erected during plague times. From one version of the origin story I heard, the incense was believed to run out the germs/evil vapors that caused the plague. I'd say that is less sensational or show-offy than you were assuming.

I offered my reaction. It's what I experienced. I made no assumption about when the practice started or why.

 

[ricitosdeplata]

November 1 is on a Sunday this year. I have read that the botafumeiro is swung on this day, All Saints Day. Does anybody know what is the mass to attend to be able to see it? Are you allowed to attend mass with your backpack? I would think not, but I'm not sure I would have a room early that Sunday morning.

 

[ricitosdeplata]

When a lot of the mass changed, I missed what now is in my dna. The vestments, the Gregorian chants, the Latin and, yes, the incense were all part of the religious experience. I imagine the botafumeiro will not be a tourist experience for me.

 

[MichaelSG]

November 1 is on a Sunday this year. I have read that the botafumeiro is swung on this day, All Saints Day. Does anybody know what is the mass to attend to be able to see it? Are you allowed to attend mass with your backpack? I would think not, but I'm not sure I would have a room early that Sunday morning.

You are not supposed to take your pack into the cathedral. That said, there will be people who will say that they managed to go in with it without getting "caught" but there are many more who will tell you of bad experiences of being escorted out with their bags moments before a mass starts. There is a place nearby where you can pay a small fee to keep your bag but someone else will need to direct you there. Also, it has been my experience that the botafumeiro swings at a lot more masses than not. In about 8 midday masses I have been to in the cathedral in September / October, it only failed to appear once.

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

When a lot of the mass changed, I missed what now is in my dna. The vestments, the Gregorian chants, the Latin and, yes, the incense were all part of the religious experience. I imagine the botafumeiro will not be a tourist experience for me.

Possibly not, Ricitos, but when you are actually there, in the emotion of the Mass and possibly the culmination of your pilgrimage, and when that wonderful organ is playing ... the tradition from medieval times of the botafumeiro just seems to be a perfect climax.
It doesn't have to prove itself on religious grounds: I speak as an ex Methodist, Catholic for 25 years, and now an Anglican elder. If I had to choose between a Mass with, or without the great bota, I would opt for the Mass with it.
Whatever your feelings, I hope that you enjoy the great Mass, and that you have a wonderful experience in walking the Camino.
Blessings from Suffolk, in England.....

 

[ricitosdeplata]

Thank you @Stephen Nicholls and @MichaelSG for your help. Like others have expressed, the camino spirit on this forum has been of great help to me. I'm feeling less and less anxious as I get closer to departure with the help and support I have gotten here buoying me up.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

– La Epifanía del Señor: 6 de enero
– Domingo de Resurrección
– La Ascensión del Señor
– La Aparición del Apóstol-Clavijo: 23 de mayo
– Pentecostés
– El Martirio de Santiago: 25 de julio
– La Asunción de María: 15 de agosto
– Todos los Santos: 1 de noviembre
– Cristo Rey
– La Inmaculada Concepción: 8 de diciembre
– Navidad: 25 de Diciembre
– Traslado de los Restos del Apóstol: 30 de diciembre

 

[ricitosdeplata]

Just googled schedule of masses (horario de misas) in Santiago cathedral, duh. (Why is it that I feel there is something mysterious about finding info about Spain, when searching isn't any different from my English searches?)