Bag Transport -- Correos vs. the Little Guy

[peregrina2000]

I saw on the Camino Primitivo this year that Correos (the Spanish mail service) offers great prices and great service. Some of the people I was walking with used Correos from Oviedo to Santiago. Not one problem, easy to contact, prices were very low, I think 4 euros per stage per bag. And you could sign up for a long segment with guaranteed transport no matter how many kms you walked a day.

So what's not to like? Well, as a hospitalero on the Primitivo pointed out to me, Correos is killing the competition. Since they have a massive existing transportation system, their marginal cost for doing this is low. The local taxi guy who is struggling to make ends meet can't make much of a living on 4 euros a bag for a 28 km stage.

Some (perhaps cynical) Spaniards told me that they thought that Correos was actually losing money on this venture, but that the Spanish taxpayer just provides the difference to keep them operating.

Whatever the reality of the economics of this, if I were using transport, I might ask my host whether there was a local option, though I can see how tempting it is to sign up for Correos' cheap plan. I recognize that Correos is providing employment as well, but there's just something a bit more appealing (to me anyway) about sending money directly from my wallet to a local small business. Kind of the Walmart vs. mom and pop store dilemma.

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[JohnnieWalker]

An uncharacteristically political post if I may say so! The market decides does it not? All pilgrims want is a reliable and well priced service. Correos does indeed provide employment and the company and their employees pay taxes to support the Spanish economy including the health service. Locals who often operate in the informal cash economy make no such contribution.

It will be interesting to see this debate develop!

 

[Tincatinker]

Kind of the Walmart vs. mom and pop store dilemma.

I'd like to be in total sympathy with this Laurie but I find I'm not - I'll hand in my black star next time the anarchists have a meeting. As JW says Correos employs local people who pay their taxes and generally make their contribution to their local communities. E.mail & SMS has damn near killed the letter & postcard trade so if shipping back-packs keeps the Correos service alive whats not to like. I'll always seek to shop my needs at my home-town farmers' market or local sole-traders rather than (inset your demon supermarket company here) but I'll also use the globals for the things that they can provide that others cannot at a price that I can afford.

Never tried it but If I need shipping I'll use a local taxi, if I'm shipping my pack I would, probably, use Correos.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

I think I sounded a bit sanctimonious in my reply to Laurie - she raises a good point for us to think about. And to confess all I had to bung the driver when we recently moved the Irish boat the pilgrims sailed from Ireland in. The correos would never have coped!

 

[dougfitz]

So what's not to like? Well, as a hospitalero on the Primitivo pointed out to me, Correos is killing the competition. Since they have a massive existing transportation system, their marginal cost for doing this is low. The local taxi guy who is struggling to make ends meet can't make much of a living on 4 euros a bag for a 28 km stage.

Big companies creating a loss leader is a pretty standard whinge from those disadvantaged by any new entry into a market place. The truth of such accusations is often difficult, if not impossible, to determine, and in any case, few companies can afford to operate for long at just the marginal cost of the service. They have to provide a return to their investors sooner or later, even if that investor is the government.

Further, I would not discount the economies of scale available where pack transport companies and the Correos choose to operate.

I would be more inclined to applaud the initiative of the Correos management in seeking out new opportunities to improve the utilization of their existing assets by providing this type of service.

 

[Tincatinker]

I can easily imagine the scene in my local Post Office if I brought that boat in wrapped up in brown paper & tied up with string (there is a song about that isn't there?)

 

[peregrina2000]

I hope I didn't come across as being political or holier than thou. But I do think it's an interesting question (which I am totally ill equipped to analyze from an economic perspective). In a lot of ways, it's the same question as whether to shop at the little hole in the wall or at the supermarket chain on the camino. And as Tinca and John noted, it reminded me of the debate between using credit cards on the camino when possible (and thus insuring that the transaction is recorded, on the books, and subject to taxes) or using cash, in which case there are a lot of transactions that are totally under the table. A lot of these "little guy" taxi transports are probably never declared or taxed.

Correos has a great system already in place on which to build this transport web, so it does seem to make sense. But at the same time, I get the "little guy" perspective as well. And if Correos puts all these guys out of business and is a monopoly, we'll just have to see whether it starts to act like a monopolist and raises its prices. Right now at 4 euros or less a bag, it is hard for others to compete.

 

[jsalt]

Hi, sadly this is like the accommodation providers. In 2012, on the Camino Portugues, we walked past the new modern hotel on the edge of Azambuja. We tried about four places in town that were listed in our guidebooks for somewhere to stay, but all had closed down. The hotel had undercut them all with discounted rates. When the little guys had all closed down they then put their prices up. We had to walk back to the hotel as there was nowhere else to stay at the time. Jill

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I can easily imagine the scene in my local Post Office if I brought that boat in wrapped up in brown paper & tied up with string (there is a song about that isn't there?)

6 Bizarre Items Mailed Through the U.S. Postal System
1. People
2. Diseases
3. Buildings
4. Pets
5. Diamonds
6. Skis, deer tibias, and dead fish
Story at: http://mentalfloss.com/article/53334/6-bizarre-items-mailed-through-us-postal-system

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Not so sure there is such a thing as the "local small guy". I remember Acacio telling me that one of the"little guys" was blackmailing albergues, telling them that if they kept offering their competitors services they would stop delivering mochilas to them!

I also hitched a ride in May with the mochilero on my way from Santiago to Fisterra for an etapa. He actually does all the work for all the different companies except for Correos. Also takes his "own clients". He can carry upwards of 1oo bags a day in high season. 100 x 6€, even if he sends back a portion of that to the companies who outsource to him is not a small business. And how much of that cash business is declared and are taxes being payed on? Not shedding a tear here!

On the political side of things, I rely on my postal services and do not like the idea of services to me being cut down if Post Canada cannot make ends meet. So my preference would be to support the national postal company rather than what may be a shaddy and non tax paying mom and pop shop. And I am not saying all of the mochileros are shady, but according to Acacio, a Camino reference, one important player is, and one has to admit this is a great cash business.

Was hearing a quote from Post Canada's CEO yesterday. He was saying something along the lines of he head heard from the elderly Canadians who told him they needed excercise and fresh air, therefor were welcoming the idea of no longer receiving mail at home but having to walk to some location to pick up their mail. In a country where it snows, rains, freezes over, and sidewalks are not always (and I'm being kind regarding thrcity I live in!) cleaned and salted enough to be safe. Nah, I would not have wanted my 80+ mother having to walk to the drugstore 700m away to pick up her mail in the middle of winter.

So yes, ask questions, but ask them all to get a full story ;0)

 

[Felipe]

You can apply the same reasoning to municipal/parochial albergues vs the private ones. The public ones benefit sometimes from subsidies, or some kind of ecclesiastical funds supporting them, and they have also volunteer unpaid hospitaleros. Competitive advantages, evidently.
I am partial to public albergues (and by extension, to Correos) for reasons that I will not elaborate here (it would surely fall into the "political" area), but I can see the other side, too. Anyway, the "mochilero" business seems to be flourishing, especially after Sarriá, notwithstanding the "official" competition. And I noticed that private albergue owners sometimes are quite eager about organizing the reception and delivery of backpacks, even if it implies some work and responsibility. Maybe I have a suspicious mind, but I wonder if there is some kind of "commission" on the issue. It would make perfect sense, from an economic point of view.

 

[peregrina2000]

Thanks for these comments, they have helped me think this through. I agree that it's probably as inaccurate to characterize all the "little guys" as sympathetic victims as it is to characterize them as tax evaders and extortionists. There's likely to be a lot of both in any enterprise where small producers are being pushed out by bigger fish. In the end, I find the "support the dying post office" rationale more persuasive, at least that's how I'm thinking now. We've already invested a huge amount of public money in an enterprise that provides a service that fewer and fewer people use for its original purpose, but on which many small towns and people without wifi rely. So propping it up with a new re-purposing seems to help extend the public benefit.

 

[marbuck]

While walking the Le Puy route in 2015 we found it very difficult to find anybody who would accept a credit card. This included accommodation, restaurants, shops and bag carriers. Cash was king. I don't know if the reason was ease of transaction or tax evasion.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

While walking the Le Puy route in 2015 we found it very difficult to find anybody who would accept a credit card. This included accommodation, restaurants, shops and bag carriers. Cash was king. I don't know if the reason was ease of transaction or tax evasion.

Not saying that tne reason cash is king is to avoid the tax man, just that kt makes it very easy. Here at home it has been made mandatory for restaurants to give receipts, bar coded receipts, to patrons. The industry panicked, and many restaurants went bankrupt after that. The profit they were making were not enough to also pay the tax man.

 

[grayland]

On the other hand....I miss the day when pilgrims simply carried their own packs except when unable due to physical problems.

It seems we have reached a point where transport is encouraged and promoted as the "normal" way.
It is very telling that many people refer to their pack as "luggage".....some of the pack transporters also use that term. I can't help but to visualize large suitcases.

I like Anemone's term "mochilero".....

 

[cosan]

I don't know how flexible Correos is. I booked Nunca Caminareis Solos to transport my backpack to Los Arcos. On the day (feeling fresh when we arrived in Los Arcos and it being overcast) we decided to walk on to Torres del Rio. I phoned NCS and there was no problem about them delivering my bag to Torres. They texted me to tell me what albergue they had left it in as I hadn't booked in anywhere. Great service for e5!

 

[lbpierce]

After using Jacotrans for three straight years at 7 euros a stage (maybe I missed the 6 euro rate?), this year I used Correos at 2.88 euros a stage (because I book ahead for my entire Camino and paid Correos one fee). I paid them in cash in their envelope the day of the first pickup. We did change our itinerary one day and I was able to make the change with Correos on 8:30 am on the morning of the pickup, even though I think their rules say you need to notify them by 9 pm the night before. The delivery time ranged from 10 am to 2 pm, though once they were two hours late and delivered at 4 pm, but were in frequent email communication with me, so I was not worried.

The service by Correos was outstanding; I communicated with them by email and always got a response within 30 minutes, in contrast to some of the Jacotrans managers who were poor on communication. Referring to one comment above, the most used private services do not typically transport one bag 28 km for 4 euros -- they pick up and deliver many bags in a given day.

I was disturbed by the hospitaleros at Albergue Boente on the CF. They were quite upset that our bag was delivered by Correos and said we should use "their" service instead. I don't know what service they are affiliated with, but I did not appreciate their heavy handed style. They said that at 3 euros their service was cheaper (not true in my case) and that Correos always delivered very late (with one exception, not true in my case).

Does anyone know which service Albergue Boente is affiliated with?

 

[Kanga]

Anything that keeps it viable for those little yellow vans visiting the tiniest of hamlets gets my vote.

 

[pilgr]

I saw on the Camino Primitivo this year that Correos (the Spanish mail service) offers great prices and great service. Some of the people I was walking with used Correos from Oviedo to Santiago. Not one problem, easy to contact, prices were very low, I think 4 euros per stage per bag. And you could sign up for a long segment with guaranteed transport no matter how many kms you walked a day.

So what's not to like? Well, as a hospitalero on the Primitivo pointed out to me, Correos is killing the competition. Since they have a massive existing transportation system, their marginal cost for doing this is low. The local taxi guy who is struggling to make ends meet can't make much of a living on 4 euros a bag for a 28 km stage.

Some (perhaps cynical) Spaniards told me that they thought that Correos was actually losing money on this venture, but that the Spanish taxpayer just provides the difference to keep them operating.

Whatever the reality of the economics of this, if I were using transport, I might ask my host whether there was a local option, though I can see how tempting it is to sign up for Correos' cheap plan. I recognize that Correos is providing employment as well, but there's just something a bit more appealing (to me anyway) about sending money directly from my wallet to a local small business. Kind of the Walmart vs. mom and pop store dilemma.

Buen camino, Laurie

Can you imagine asking the USPS to transfer your bags for you daily to the town down the road?