Active thief on the Camino Frances, July 2021

[gmag]

There is a new active thief on the Camino Frances. He is very easy to recognize, because he is a young black man who has been cycling for a few days. It may be that he leaves the bike. He is 30 years old, tall, he has robbed in Rioja -among others- four pilgrims who yesterday were in our albergue Luz de Frómista, and they gave me his name and photos of his identity card. Two days ago he was in Frómista, in front of our albergue, he did not enter. In the afternoon and evening the Civil Guard was looking for him throughout the area, including the albergues. He can be between Carrion de los Condes and Leon, anywhere. The problem is that the police always catch thieves, they have a lot of interest in avoiding crimes on the Camino de Santiago, but foreign pilgrims never report, they prefer to follow their path, only some Spaniards do. And thieves know this and generally steal from non-Spaniards.
Without complaints, the police cannot catch them, they can only do so if the thieves are caught by the pilgrims at the time they are stealing.

 

[annangulo]

Today, a bunkmate of mine told me she and her friend were approached by two young teenagers outside if Estella, brandishing knives, trying to steal their money. They reported it to the police (it did take three hours if their time to report) and they've already caught and arrested the guys. The guardian civil were here at our albergue in Los Arcos informing her. I'm so impressed. Would not have had that same response from law enforcement in my home town of Las Vegas.

 

[t2andreo]

If you see something, call 112 on your mobile phone and say something. The police can provide help in English.

Simply ask: "Puede ayudar en ingles, por favor?" (I think I got that right).

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[henrythedog]

If you see something, call 112 on your mobile phone and say something. The police can provide help in English.

Simply ask: "Puede ayudar en ingles, por favor?" (I think I got that right).

Hope this helps.

Tom

Close enough.

?Puede ayudarme en ingles?

 

[RJM]

What type of thefts are occurring? Stealing property out of backpacks left outside, in albergues etc?
or is he using violence/force/threats to take money/property from his victims?

 

[trecile]

If you see something, call 112 on your mobile phone and say something.

Or download the Alert Cops app on your phone.

.: Error 403 :.

 

[Former member 97775]

There is a new active thief on the Camino Frances. He is very easy to recognize, because he is a young black man who has been cycling for a few days. It may be that he leaves the bike. He is 30 years old, tall, he has robbed in Rioja -among others- four pilgrims who yesterday were in our albergue Luz de Frómista, and they gave me his name and photos of his identity card. Two days ago he was in Frómista, in front of our albergue, he did not enter. In the afternoon and evening the Civil Guard was looking for him throughout the area, including the albergues. He can be between Carrion de los Condes and Leon, anywhere. The problem is that the police always catch thieves, they have a lot of interest in avoiding crimes on the Camino de Santiago, but foreign pilgrims never report, they prefer to follow their path, only some Spaniards do. And thieves know this and generally steal from non-Spaniards.
Without complaints, the police cannot catch them, they can only do so if the thieves are caught by the pilgrims at the time they are stealing.

Why didn't you post his name and photo as well, if you got them from your friend?

 

[jsalt]

but foreign pilgrims never report, they prefer to follow their path

Yes, if you are robbed, please take the time to report it to the police.

The thieves will usually take only cash, not passports or credit cards.

If you are on a schedule – next place booked – it is inconvenient to spend several hours reporting something that may well be a waste of time.

HOWEVER, often the police are aware of the thieves, and if you can give them an EXACT location, they will know where the next robbery may occur.

This happened to my group a few years ago. The thieves took cash AND all our food from the kitchen. We later heard that they were finally caught. They were impersonating as pilgrims, staying in the albergues, and disappearing (in a vehicle) in the early hours of the morning.

 

[JeffParks]

Why didn't you post his name and photo as well, if you got them from your friend?

Be wary of libel laws if you do this.

 

[wayfarer]

Why didn't you post his name and photo as well, if you got them from your friend?

This will not be allowed on this forum.

 

[gmag]

Why didn't you post his name and photo as well, if you got them from your friend?

In the forum it is not allowed to put the photo or other personal information. He is not a condemned person. The thief, or rather the still alleged thief, can report the forum and whoever posts the post. As simple as that.
Another different thing is that among hospitaleros we pass names and photos and that we show them to pilgrims when there is a thief in the vicinity or when they tell me that they have been robbed even as far away as in Navarra, the victim recognized the photo that I showed him.
Many of us are more vigilant than you might think.

 

[gmag]

What type of thefts are occurring? Stealing property out of backpacks left outside, in albergues etc?
or is he using violence/force/threats to take money/property from his victims?

In this case, he steals when no one is in the rooms, or when they are asleep. Opening backpacks, easy and fast.
It is the common method on the Camino.

 

[Tincatinker]

Why didn't you post his name and photo as well?

Here is a photo of a thief [me] and a liar [me]. You'll find that photo on many a website; I stole my avatar from a fishing magazine. None of this is true.

I could post a whole bunch of photos on here of thieves I've known and loved; liars I've wrestled and even genuine criminals. Would any of that help you take appropriate and sensible precaution with your valued property? Or would you be so busy comparing images and faces that you would be to busy to notice the shark in the tank?

 

[gmag]

Today, a bunkmate of mine told me she and her friend were approached by two young teenagers outside if Estella, brandishing knives, trying to steal their money. They reported it to the police (it did take three hours if their time to report) and they've already caught and arrested the guys. The guardian civil were here at our albergue in Los Arcos informing her. I'm so impressed. Would not have had that same response from law enforcement in my home town of Las Vegas.

This is terrible, easily traumatic and far exceeds what can happen on the Camino.

 

[dick bird]

Close enough.

?Puede ayudarme en ingles?

Or just 'Inglés'.

 

[Lirsy]

There are almost no robberies on the Camino. The fact that a robbery, without violence, becomes news, proves it. But for things to continue like this, it is necessary that when you know of some type of criminal act you report it to the police as soon as possible.

 

[RJM]

There are almost no robberies on the Camino. The fact that a robbery, without violence, becomes news, proves it. But for things to continue like this, it is necessary that when you know of some type of criminal act you report it to the police as soon as possible.

Define "almost no"? Not sure what that means?
It would be impossible to come up with statistics as most of the criminal acts, whether thefts, robbery, assaults etc, go unreported, not to mention different jurisdictions etc. Unreported because the victims are foreigners and they count their losses and want to move on. Let's face it, the odds that their money or property is recovered and returned is remote and who is going to hang around somewhere an extra 2-3 days in hopes they get back 50-100 euros? The cost of accommodations and meals spent while waiting in hopes for that amount of money would not be logical. The criminals know that. They know the system works in their favor. Getting caught occasionally simply a risk of the profession. Like a carpenter occasionally hitting his finger with a hammer. Shrug it off and continue. Also they would not be doing it if it was not profitable. That tells me it happens more than we will ever know.
If your money or iPhone is stolen on the Camino it is gone. Either spent or sold within hours after the crime. No way to get it back. The criminals know that to hold on to it risks it being confiscated if they are caught.

 

[Brooklynpoet]

There is a new active thief on the Camino Frances. He is very easy to recognize, because he is a young black man who has been cycling for a few days. It may be that he leaves the bike. He is 30 years old, tall, he has robbed in Rioja -among others- four pilgrims who yesterday were in our albergue Luz de Frómista, and they gave me his name and photos of his identity card. Two days ago he was in Frómista, in front of our albergue, he did not enter. In the afternoon and evening the Civil Guard was looking for him throughout the area, including the albergues. He can be between Carrion de los Condes and Leon, anywhere. The problem is that the police always catch thieves, they have a lot of interest in avoiding crimes on the Camino de Santiago, but foreign pilgrims never report, they prefer to follow their path, only some Spaniards do. And thieves know this and generally steal from non-Spaniards.
Without complaints, the police cannot catch them, they can only do so if the thieves are caught by the pilgrims at the time they are stealing.

It seems to me you are convicting a "young black man" who is "very easy to recognize" (based on his blackness and youth alone, I gather?) of thievery, without benefit of trial, based only on his appearance. Do you have confirmed evidence of his guilt? As you give no identifying information beyond his color and youth, this comment puts all young black men at risk of being assumed to be thieves on the camino. It is problematic, to say the least.

 

[Lexicos]

The Camino is not exempt from all the things that happen in other parts of life; theft, assault and deceit included. We need to take the same care for our safety on the Camino as we would anywhere else. Bad and desperate people do not confine themselves to big cities, or particular towns or particular undertakings. You can be at the opera, or the football, or in your own street and suddenly find yourself in a dangerous or compromising situation. So, the moral of this story is, in my view; be vigilant, don’t take unnecessary risks, play safe, report crimes ( so that others may be spared, possibly) take your precautions and don’t assume anything. You can do all these things and still enjoy the Camino.
Take it on board: not everyone is good and well meaning, like us in this forum. No matter where you are, no matter what you are doing, take care for your safety and guard your property. Camino included.

 

[RemysMimi]

In this case, he steals when no one is in the rooms, or when they are asleep. Opening backpacks, easy and fast.
It is the common method on the Camino.

Unfortunately, this is not the first time something like this has happened. Over the years I have heard this story often. This is why we are often told to never leave your valuables unattended and to be sure to report these types of incidences. "Let's be careful out there."

 

[henrythedog]

It seems to me you are convicting a "young black man" who is "very easy to recognize" (based on his blackness and youth alone, I gather?) of thievery, without benefit of trial, based only on his appearance. Do you have confirmed evidence of his guilt? As you give no identifying information beyond his color and youth, this comment puts all young black men at risk of being assumed to be thieves on the camino. It is problematic, to say the least.

In post #11 the OP is clear that the person described is an ‘alleged’ thief and is sharing a basic description which is roughly what the Guarda Civil are looking for. They will have the further benefit of ID details.

Is it the ‘black’, ‘male’, ‘young’ or ‘cyclist’ you have an issue with? What if the description is factually correct? What if it were a sexual assault?

It’s problematic describing people these days isn’t it?

HtD: self-professed fat, old, male, pink with white and pale blue parts, non-cyclist.

 

[gmag]

It seems to me you are convicting a "young black man" who is "very easy to recognize" (based on his blackness and youth alone, I gather?) of thievery, without benefit of trial, based only on his appearance. Do you have confirmed evidence of his guilt? As you give no identifying information beyond his color and youth, this comment puts all young black men at risk of being assumed to be thieves on the camino. It is problematic, to say the least.

Let us try to be intellectually free, which is increasingly difficult in a politically correct world, to call it in some conventional way.

My post aims to warn those who are doing the French Way, as everyone who is doing it understands.
If he is a blond, chubby and short Spaniard, and I say so, you can be completely sure that no one in Spain would tell me that I am putting Spaniards at risk, or the short or the chubby. Nobody!!!!! OR THAT I AM RACIST.

I cannot give the name, it is not necessary, I have it, I have the photo that they sent me of your French identity card (Sorry! I have put all French pilgrims at risk of being accused !!!!!), the photo It was given to me by one of the victims, who could not get his money back because the money does not have a signature and it is not possible to prove who the owner is, the photo was taken because he was taken, and the police were there, AND HAD TO LEAVE HIM GO FREE OF CHARGE.

The reason for my post is to help pilgrims, assuming that everyone who reads me is smart enough to know what I mean.

It is not much use to say that he measures 1.82m, how he measures, that he is thin, many are thin, that he has black hair, many have black hair ...

Let's be serious, and above all, BE INTELLECTUALLY FREE. NOTHING MAKES IT SUPPOSED THAT SOMEONE WILL THINK THAT ALL THE BLACKS ARE THIEVES OF THE CAMINO DE SANTIAGO.

The only reference that I can AND SHOULD give, that can prevent a robbery, is that he is black, tall and that he rides a bicycle and that he was in the Carrión area that day.

Like many other members of this forum, I have been a lawyer in my young years. I know what freedom is and respect for the rights of others, and I am not intimidated in any way by any kind of intellectual repression.

 

[CalgaryLynn]

What type of thefts are occurring? Stealing property out of backpacks left outside, in albergues etc?
or is he using violence/force/threats to take money/property from his victims?

It seems to me you are convicting a "young black man" who is "very easy to recognize" (based on his blackness and youth alone, I gather?) of thievery, without benefit of trial, based only on his appearance. Do you have confirmed evidence of his guilt? As you give no identifying information beyond his color and youth, this comment puts all young black men at risk of being assumed to be thieves on the camino. It is problematic, to say the least.

Why bring up the "race" card? If it was a caucasian old man, this is what the description would be. Facts are facts, let's leave the "political" angle out of it.

 

[CalgaryLynn]

Let us try to be intellectually free, which is increasingly difficult in a politically correct world, to call it in some conventional way.

My post aims to warn those who are doing the French Way, as everyone who is doing it understands.
If he is a blond, chubby and short Spaniard, and I say so, you can be completely sure that no one in Spain would tell me that I am putting Spaniards at risk, or the short or the chubby. Nobody!!!!! OR THAT I AM RACIST.

I cannot give the name, it is not necessary, I have it, I have the photo that they sent me of your French identity card (Sorry! I have put all French pilgrims at risk of being accused !!!!!), the photo It was given to me by one of the victims, who could not get his money back because the money does not have a signature and it is not possible to prove who the owner is, the photo was taken because he was taken, and the police were there, AND HAD TO LEAVE HIM GO FREE OF CHARGE.

The reason for my post is to help pilgrims, assuming that everyone who reads me is smart enough to know what I mean.

It is not much use to say that he measures 1.82m, how he measures, that he is thin, many are thin, that he has black hair, many have black hair ...

Let's be serious, and above all, BE INTELLECTUALLY FREE. NOTHING MAKES IT SUPPOSED THAT SOMEONE WILL THINK THAT ALL THE BLACKS ARE THIEVES OF THE CAMINO DE SANTIAGO.

The only reference that I can AND SHOULD give, that can prevent a robbery, is that he is black, tall and that he rides a bicycle and that he was in the Carrión area that day.

Like many other members of this forum, I have been a lawyer in my young years. I know what freedom is and respect for the rights of others, and I am not intimidated in any way by any kind of intellectual repression.

Excellent response!

 

[RJM]

It seems to me you are convicting a "young black man" who is "very easy to recognize" (based on his blackness and youth alone, I gather?) of thievery, without benefit of trial, based only on his appearance. Do you have confirmed evidence of his guilt? As you give no identifying information beyond his color and youth, this comment puts all young black men at risk of being assumed to be thieves on the camino. It is problematic, to say the least.

Easy there. Nobody is convicting anybody. Just giving a description of somebody. If you have not noticed this is an internet forum with what amounts to a very small, tiny percentage of Camino walkers overall as members. No need for melodrama.

 

[RemysMimi]

Why bring up the "race" card? If it was a caucasian old man, this is what the description would be. Facts are facts, let's leave the "political" angle out of it.

The point is it probably would not have been "a caucasian old man", it would probably have just been "an old man" and we would be left to assume he was caucasian. Unfortunately, this is how the world works.

 

[CalgaryLynn]

The point is it probably would not have been "a caucasian old man", it would probably have just been "an old man" and we would be left to assume he was caucasian. Unfortunately, this is how the world works.

No, I disagree completely. It always include any defining features including race, age and gender when giving descriptions of criminals.

 

[henrythedog]

No, I disagree completely. It always include any defining features including race, age and gender when giving descriptions of criminals.

That does vary considerably by country. In the UK one is hard-pressed to deduce the species of an alleged transgressor from the police description.

 

[CalgaryLynn]

That does vary considerably by country. In the UK one is hard-pressed to deduce the species of an alleged transgressor from the police description.

I can only speak for Canada but usually the description is not given if a picture is shown (in the media) but my brother is a cop and any descriptions they get will be down to minutia and if they are asking the public for help, the information is very exacting. Lots of times, mug shots are shown in the media. Very common.

 

[Kathor1]

Two things are getting mixed up here: the physical description of someone who the police is looking for or of whom you want to warn others or tell them to be careful of the person where any information to help identify the person is useful versus the description of a person in the media who has already been apprehended by the police because of a suspected crime and where there is usually no longer a need to describe appearance, ethnic background, etc etc. but is often still done.

 

[Tincatinker]

Gently Pilgrims, gently. A report from an Hospitalero/a, live from the Camino, has advised of an active thief in their locale. The description provided has given no more information than that that has been provided to the appropriate authorities. If we really want to play PC Ping-pong instead of taking note and being grateful for the warning. Well, we can probably get a better game on a different forum.

I'm not locking this thread because that would cause valuable and current information to fall from the "Front Page". Moderators will take action against members who fail to follow this forums reasonable rules.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Let us try to be intellectually free, which is increasingly difficult in a politically correct world, to call it in some conventional way.

My post aims to warn those who are doing the French Way, .....

....... the police were there, AND HAD TO LEAVE HIM GO FREE OF CHARGE.

It would seem, from your description of events, that there is no reasonable evidence against the individual that you are identifying and so it is entirely unreasonable to publicly identify that person.

Doing so would leave you open to the charges that you seem to be so keen to avoid.

 

[henrythedog]

It would seem, from your description of events, that there is no reasonable evidence against the individual that you are identifying and so it is entirely unreasonable to publicly identify that person.

Doing so would leave you open to the charges that you seem to be so keen to avoid.

We usually see the world from a metaphorically similar point of view, even if literally geographically opposed for the time being.

I disagree.

The OP is doing what he sees (and I agree is) as a public service. The thief (for there appears no doubt that there was one) has passed on for the time being and the rather anonymised warning being offered here will be nothing compared to the detailed and politically unconstrained communication between hospitalleros.

The person described is acknowledged as ‘alleged’ - although it’s set out as certain that there is a thief about even if not conforming to the rather vague description.

What would you rather he do? He is certain in his belief that there is a thief in the area, specific accusations have been made, the cops are looking for an identified individual and all concerned acknowledge of rule of law, habeas corpus and so on. The OP has a photo, name, nationality, ID number, gender, race and cycling proficiency badge of an individual currently being sought by the authorities in Spain. Is it not legitimate to share elements of that in fairly loose terms?

On the other hand, would I want to know, with the scant details provided, quite frankly: no. I’m no innocent abroad and accept that s..t happens. I expect casual thievery pretty much everywhere.

But is it legitimate to share the details as set out, I think yes. If the description is just a sub-set of that conforming to the Guarda Civil ‘person of interest’ then that’s fair enough in my view.

 

[gmag]

It would seem, from your description of events, that there is no reasonable evidence against the individual that you are identifying and so it is entirely unreasonable to publicly identify that person.

Doing so would leave you open to the charges that you seem to be so keen to avoid.

This is starting to get crazy.
I have innocently tried to give a warning about a clear risk, very clear, on the Camino de Santiago.

Now it seems that a couple of people are trying to defend in virtual court session, a man of nationality that I should not say, of physical appearance that is not allowed to be mentioned, of secret age ..., and with an allegedly criminal action, caught while stealing backpacks, but with an exact number of bills in his pocket that correspond to those that a Spanish citizen has "lost does not know in what way", and of which he could not give the numbering of the bills, and how they were equal to other banknotes of the same value ... had to be released, after taking the data that appeared on his nationality card.

For unknown reasons, the Civil Guard was looking for him at night in the Fromista area. Possibly to ask for forgiveness on behalf of all Spanish citizens, as is logical.
It is evident that the repression against logic and good sense is dominating our lives.

Let's forget the whole post. If he had been a man from Madrid with little hair, like me, he could have given an exact description.
But as it is as it is, I can only say that on the Camino de Santiago there is possibly a possible pilgrim who perhaps tries to borrow money from sleeping pilgrims.

OF COURSE, IN CASE OF THEFT, THE BLAME IS NOT OF THE THIEF, BUT OF THE PILGRIMS FOR BEING ASLEEP.

I sincerely thank those who have understood that my intention was to warn of a near risk, and not to publicly accuse a cyclist with the sole purpose of insulting his entire family, his entire country and his entire continent.

And now I'm going to sleep, before they put me in jail and the boy on the bike dies laughing when he sees me locked up ...

 

[DoughnutANZ]

Like you, I generally avoid reading threads like this, I am not sure why, this morning, I changed my mind. But, having (only) read the latest posts I was struck by the seeming absurdity that seemed to be playing out. Perhaps if I read the whole thread this might become less absurd but I won't do that because it pointless. I should have moved on without comment.

Anyway, thank you for your patience and polite reply.

The absurdity that I was so unclear about is that many posters, including yourself are saying "the cops are looking for an identified individual" while the post that I quoted clearly states that the police were present with the individual, questioned that person and then let them go about their business (presumably) because there was no reasonable evidence against them.

Perhaps I can say that again.

While it may be reasonable (or civic) to publicly identify a person where there is reasonable evidence that person is guilty of some crime AND they are likely to repeat that crime. To me, it is totally unreasonable to publicly identify someone who has been questioned and released by the police.

 

[gmag]

Like you, I generally avoid reading threads like this, I am not sure why, this morning, I changed my mind. But, having (only) read the latest posts I was struck by the seeming absurdity that seemed to be playing out. Perhaps if I read the whole thread this might become less absurd but I won't do that because it pointless. I should have moved on without comment.

Anyway, thank you for your patience and polite reply.

The absurdity that I was so unclear about is that many posters, including yourself are saying "the cops are looking for an identified individual" while the post that I quoted clearly states that the police were present with the individual, questioned that person and then let them go about their business (presumably) because there was no reasonable evidence against them.

Perhaps I can say that again.

While it may be reasonable (or civic) to publicly identify a person where there is reasonable evidence that person is guilty of some crime AND they are likely to repeat that crime. To me, it is totally unreasonable to publicly identify someone who has been questioned and released by the police.

Doughnut NZ, Possibly the post is interpretable in different ways, nuanced, I am sure that in your intention there is nothing personal against me. As it is interpretable I leave it as it is, and I hope that if you pass by here, as you have said that you may possibly do, you will accept a few beers from me and let's talk about what we want, I am sure it will be very pleasant, I am sure.

 

[FourSeasons]

I’ve read this entire threat and I’m so confused a rose is a rose is a rose Are we not all pilgrims past and present? Attacking one another on a thread that once had good intentions. Lord have Mercy.