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33 Reasons Portugal Is The Absolute Worst

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Wonderful! Beautiful pictures.
I enjoyed my Camino Portugese out of Lisbon to SdC so much and I can't wait to go back next year for the Coastal walk.
I agree, Portugal is wonderful.
 
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What a wonderful posting the day before I arrive in Portugal!! Thanks for posting this!
Terry
 
Aurelio thanks for posting that - so precious. Many wonderful memories for me. I can’t wait to get back (And those pasteis de nata!!!)
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
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We are on our way ! Now in Burgos stay here tomorrow too. Then to Salamanca so monday or tuesday we will be somewhere in the Serra Estrella. Later next week we will follow the smell to the pasteís de nata in Lisboa. We call you Aurélio
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
[Quote = "peregrina2000, POS: 404,712, Membro: 537"]! Tão feliz Eu estou aqui ágora [/ QUOTE]
[QUOTE = "Albertinho, post: 405092, membro: 22438"] Estamos no nosso caminho! Agora em Burgos ficar aqui amanhã também. Então, para Salamanca tão segunda ou terça vamos estar em algum lugar na Serra Estrella. Mais tarde, na próxima semana vamos acompanhar o cheiro ao pastéis de nata em Lisboa. Chamamos-lhe Aurélio [/ QUOTE]



Albertinho
You will enter Portugal the border of Vilar Formoso, I recommend that you should visit Almeida, Castelo Mendo, Trancoso, Belmonte, Sortelha and Piódão.
You should also visit a village of Monsanto (the village most Portuguese of Portugal), which is northeast of Castelo Branco in the direction of Spain.


Monsanto: https://www.noticiasaominuto.com/lifestyle/578066/monsanto-entre-as-aldeias-mais-bonitas-da-europa
http://juliedawnfox.com/2013/07/31/monsanto-portugal/


AMSimoes
 
Last edited:

Aurelio, you forgot Linhares! And let me just say Piodao is wonderful -- a schist town that is really in a beautiful setting. Some of the schist towns around Lousa are also stunning, if you can make it over there. Too many places to visit, Albertinho. So sorry we didn't coincide, but Aurelio and Rita will take good care of you.
 

Yes Laurie.
There are more: Marialva, Castelo Rodrigo, Castelo Novo and in Alentejo, Marvão, Monsaraz...
 
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Obrigado Aurélio. Where should we find a camping. In Guarda?or At the N17 at the other side of the Serra Estrela in Seia or Oliveiro do Hospital ?
 
Oh, WOW!
So many happy memories brought back .... I loved the Castle of St. George in Lisbon, and the Belem tower, and the Portugese people, and..... everything! Plan to return in 2018-9
 
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Looks terrible! And to think we arrive in Porto on Monday to start our Camino. Seriously, we were there last year and couldn't wait to return. Adored Porto and very excited about what lies ahead this coming week. Thanks for sharing. So timely.
 
amsimoes said:
Yes Laurie.
There are more: Marialva, Castelo Rodrigo, Castelo Novo and in Alentejo, Marvão, Monsaraz...
Click to expand...
Montsaraz at the beautiful lake district at the Spanish border we went to years ago. Fantastic.

By the way. Two days ago we were in Pamplona and today in Burgos saw the pilgrims on the Francès queing up . Many many are on the camino now.
 
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gracethepilgrim said:
Aurelio thanks for posting that - so precious. Many wonderful memories for me. I can’t wait to get back (And those pasteis de nata!!!)
Click to expand...


OK.
A pastel de nata and a Port Wine (particular collection).
Bjs.
 
Albertinho said:
Obrigado Aurélio. Where should we find a camping. In Guarda?or At the N17 at the other side of the Serra Estrela in Seia or Oliveiro do Hospital ?
Click to expand...


Albertinho
To visit Piodão uses the camping "Três Entradas" (Oliveira do Hospital), a very beautiful area. See http://www.serradaestrela.biz/parques-de-campismo/ponte-das-3-entradas#.VyW6IPkrIdU

To visit Almeida, Castelo Mendo, Trancoso, Belmonte, Sortelha, uses the camping Guarda and/or Valhelhas and/or Covilhã (Pião).
http://www.serradaestrela.biz/parques-de-campismo/parque-campismo-municipal-da-guarda#.VyW8XPkrIdU
http://www.serradaestrela.biz/parques-de-campismo/parque-campismo-de-valhelhas#.VyW8PvkrIdU
http://www.serradaestrela.biz/parques-de-campismo/parque-campismo-do-piao-covilha#.VyW7-fkrIdU

To visit Monsanto, Idanha a Velha, Castelo Novo uses the camping of Castelo Branco or Fundão.
Aurélio
 
There are in fact two reasons where Portugal scores 0.
The first one is pilgrim related.
1) Restaurants have the bad habitude to put undemanded items on the table and charge them.
2) The highway toll system is the worst of Europe. Just for your info: some of the highways are private, some of them are from the state. On the last one, you need an electronic box installed.....
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.

Hi, Gunnar, Such a long time since you have been here! Know that you have many Radio Buen Camino fans still waiting for more!

Far be it from me to tell you you are wrong, but let me add a bit of context to these observations. First, almost every Portuguese restaurant in almost every town in Portugal has this tradition, it is not directed at pilgrims. The problem is that pilgrims don't know the tradition, and they assume that anything put on the table is put there with no charge. But that is not the case. We travel a lot in Portugal and there is absolutely no problem with waving away the dishes when they are brought to the table or simply letting them sit there till they bring your main course. If they are untouched, they will be removed and there will be no charge. It is not a problem, no one is insulted. But sometimes the little plates are worth a second look and can be quite yummy, so long as you know you will pay for them!

And the tolls, fortunately there are still no tolls for pilgrims walking, but I agree with you it is a complicated system. For years now, we have done it the "hard way." There are a few highways in Portugal that have no toll machines for paying as you travel through, though the main highways do have payment booths at the exit so you can pay those tolls. But for the ones that are "electronic only", so long as you take your license plate number to a post office or to any little shop in Portugal that has a red sign in the window that says "pay shop", you will get the total and can pay it there. You have to wait three days for the tolls to be in the system, and you have weeks (maybe even months) of a grace period to pay the bill, but it does require a separate trip. This year, we decided to add a transponder to our car rental fee. The company charges two euros a day for the privilege of using the transponder, and the tolls go directly to your credit card, so that was as little splurge, I guess. But for people driving in in their own cars from Europe, that is not an option. So, yes, I will agree that it is a bit of a hassle, but it isn't that big of a problem, especially if you are driving into little towns where there post office has no lines, and the pay shops are in lots of little cafes and stores.

Buen camino, Laurie
 


Grandiose is the country and its people that with 900 years of history (with the oldest borders of Europe), only has two defects.
I count at least fifty.
AMSimões
 
We made it as far as Oliveira do Hospital (camping in Meruge) so we are going to explore your suggestions Aurélio .The camping is called Toca da Raposa and is about 8 kms from Oliveira do Hospital. It was in our Dutch campingguide. Very nice place.

I will give you a call when we are in Vila Franca de Xira. Before that we like to visit Mario in Santarèm and Diogo in Castanheiro do Ribatejo.
So somewhere next week we will be around !

Abraço desta lado da Serra da Estrella
Albertinho
 
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If you enter by car at one of the borders between Spain and Portugal at the big motorways like we did yesterday at the A25 near Vilar Formosa there is a stop for foreigners where you can put your creditcard in a machine, your licenceplate will be photographed and you get a receipt. That is all. Now you can pass all the electronic tollports and they charge your creditcard. The receipt you can use during 30 days. Because we stay untill the end of june on the first of june I will have to go to a postoffice or a GALP petrolstation and buy a prepaid card for the second month.
I can put on the card an amount of 10€, 20 € and so on and they give me a sms message when there is not enough money on the card.
Very coveniant after all.

Bom caminho
 

That's great, I didn't know this. That is a huge improvement.

My only comment is that if you are going to be driving around on highways in Portugal for a month, you might as well mortgage your house and put the proceeds on the prepaid card because the tolls are very high.
 
We know that but not only in Portugal. We paid from the north of France to the Spanish border at Hendaye Irun 100€ toll ! One way ! We can take national roads but the toll roads are more relaxed for driving with a car and camping trailer
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Hello,
Thank you for this update.
I had the idea to be more specific on the toll system but I didn't because it was not pilgrim-related.
But as there are some reactions, I will be more specific.
At the north side of Porto, there is a small stretch of highway where there is only the electronic system. I think it's called SKUT or something like that. I knew about going to the CTT and pay the amount afterwards, but pff, what a misery for +/- 70ct extra fee included.
Buying a credit in advance is also not the right system. Why paying 10€ in advance? I prefer France and Spain where you pay immediately the right amount.

About the restaurant extras. It is certainly a part of our culture that what is the price mentioned at the door or in the menu is the price you pay at the end. I can understand that this is lesser sensible in the USA where the VAT is not included and you need even to calculate the tip. But understand me, this is not a big concern. I was happy to mention 2 other reasons not to visit Portugal

Laurie, in France between Poitiers and Bordeaux, there is the parallel free 110km/h allowed national N10 road passing Angoulême. Saves you something like 25€. In France there are many "national roads" which are are giving good alternatives on some péage-stretches.
Till soon,
 
amsimoes said:
Grandiose is the country and its people that with 900 years of history (with the oldest borders of Europe), only has two defects.
I count at least fifty.
AMSimões
Click to expand...

Haxo que as fronteiras de Andorra e Sao Marinho sao mais velhas
I think that the Andorra and San Marino borders are older.
 
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Pelegrin said:
Haxo que as fronteiras de Andorra e Sao Marinho sao mais velhas
I think that the Andorra and San Marino borders are older.
Click to expand...


Treaty of Alcañices (1297)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Treaty of Alcañices (1297), currently kept in the Torre do Tombo National Archive.
The Treaty of Alcañices (1297) (Tratado de Alcanizes in Portuguese) was made in Alcañices between King Dinis of Portugal and King Fernando IV of Castile.

Denis was the grandson of king Alfonso X of Castile and essentially an administrator and not a warrior king. He went to war with the kingdom of Castile in 1295, relinquishing the villages of Serpa and Moura, but gained Olivença and reaffirmed Portugal’s possession of the Algarve and defined the modern borders between the two Iberian countries.[1] The treaty also established an alliance of friendship and mutual defense, leading to a peace of 40 years between the two nations.
King Fernando IV of Castile then married King Dinis of Portugal's daughter, Infanta Constance of Portugal, making her Queen of Spain.

ANDORRA HISTORY.
Early history[edit]
In the 11th century, fearing military action by neighboring lords, the bishop placed himself under the protection of the Lord of Caboet, a Catalan nobleman. Later, theCount of Foix became heir to the Lord of Caboet through marriage, and a dispute arose between the French Count and the Catalan bishop over Andorra.

In 1278, the conflict was resolved by the signing of a pareage (pariatges), which provided that Andorra's sovereignty be shared between the Count of Foix and the Bishopof La Seu d'Urgell (Catalonia, Spain). The pareage, a feudal institution recognizing the principle of equality of rights shared by two rulers, gave the small state its territory and political form. In return, Andorra pays an annual tribute or questia to the co-rulers consisting of four hams, forty loaves of bread, and some wine. As of the year 2012, Andorra's borders have remained unchanged since 1278.[1]

Andorra was briefly annexed to the Crown of Aragon twice, in 1396 and 1512.

In 1505, Germaine of Foix married Ferdinand V of Castile, thereby bringing the lordship of Andorra under Spanish rule. On taking over the kingdom in 1519, Emperor Charles V granted the lordship of Les Valls, as it was then known, to Germaine of Foix’s line in perpetuity. Henry III of Navarre, who was also count of Foix, in 1589 ascended the French throne as Henry IV, and by an edict of 1607 established the head of the French state, along with the bishop of Urgel, as co-princes of Andorra.

In 1793, the French revolutionary government refused the traditional Andorran tribute as smacking of feudalism and renounced its suzerainty, despite the wish of the Andorrans to enjoy French protection and avoid being under exclusively Spanish influence.

Andorra remained neutral during the Napoleonic Wars. Napoleon restored the co-principality in 1806 after the Andorrans petitioned him to do so. French title to the principality subsequently passed from the kings to the president of France. In the period 1812–13, the French Empire annexed Catalonia and divided it in four departments. Andorra was also annexed and made part of the district of Puigcerdà (département of Sègre).
 
Beautiful photos. I almost miss them because I saw the word worst in the thread and I thought it wasn't a thread for me...

amsimoes said:
Grandiose is the country and its people that with 900 years of history (with the oldest borders of Europe), only has two defects.
Click to expand...

I don't know what's the country with the oldest border(s) of Europe. In fact, I think that's a difficult question to answer because we should specify what's a country, what sort of borders are we talking about, what do we mean by oldest, what do we mean by Europe... Anyway, I doubt the oldest land border within Europe is the border of Portugal with nowadays Spain (see below).

amsimoes said:
Treaty of Alcañices (1297)
Click to expand...

Portugal doesn't have the same border(s) since the treaty of Alcañices.

Nowadays land border between Portugal and Spain is the one agreed on the treaty of Lisbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon_(1864)) plus the one agreed on the convention of limits of 1926 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Limits_(1926)) plus an area with a disputed border because was ceded to Spain on the treaty of Badajoz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Badajoz_(1801))
but John VI of Portugal declared void the treaty of Badajoz in 1808 what could be considered the start point of what it's known in Spain as the Cuestión de Olivenza and in Portugal as the Questão de Olivença (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivenza#Claims_of_sovereignty) that remains unresolved nowadays.
 
Yes the Spanish/Portuguese border has not been clearly defined in certain points especially in the "raia seca" (dry line)
between Galicia and Portugal. When I visited P.N. Peneda Geres in 2010 in Castro Laboreiro they complaint that Spain had moved the marks a few metres and as a consequence a dolmen had been stolen
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
We had a good time with Aurêlio and Rita yesterday. They showed us around in Lisbon. Very nice. We saw your favorite restaurant Had a good time
Met Diogo too and last sunday Mario and his wife in Santarèm. We have a great time here

Tomorrow we will go to the coast nearby Nazaré Hoping the weather is improving.

Best regards from Vila Franca de Xira.
Albertinho and Nel
 
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