Compostela

[nycwalking]

This question has before been posted but I never cemented information into my memory bank.

How do I request a Compostela in another’s name?

Also, is it possible to receive two, one in my name and the other one?

 

[Lindsay53]

I don't know about receiving two compostelas, but you can have someone else's name added if you request 'vicare pro' when you arrive at the desk. The compostela will already have your name on it and the other name is added by hand at the bottom.

 

[Kathor1]

vicare pro

A frequent spelling mistake, unfortunately also sometimes found in the handwritten addition on a Compostela.

It is vicarie pro - note the letter “i” following “r”.

vicarie - Latin is Simple Online Dictionary

Find vicarie (Adverb) in the Latin Online Dictionary with English meanings, all fabulous forms & inflections and a conjugation table: vicarie, vicariius, vicariissime

www.latin-is-simple.com

 

[Kathor1]

How do I request a Compostela in another’s name? Also, is it possible to receive two, one in my name and the other one?

@nycwalking, although I know the correct answer I will leave the reply to a knowledgeable and competent volunteer of the Pilgrim Office in Santiago. Perhaps @Flog or another volunteer with actual knowledge sees this thread?

Apologies for pointing out the correct grammatical form of the Latin phrase. If it is misspelled on a Compostela it is no big deal. It is the thought that matters and the recipient (if there is one) will probably not know or remember enough Latin vocabulary and grammar to notice.

However, I feel that we should strive to avoid repeating the wrong form, especially since people have now started to add this phrase themselves. I've explained the correct form several times but there is one forum member in particular who repeats the incorrect phrase over and over again without paying any attention to posts with the correct form, including in the same thread.

 

[natefaith]

Also, is it possible to receive two, one in my name and the other one?

Just met another pilgrim recently who had this wish, but it ended up that the Pilgrim's Office issued one Compostela with both his name and his friend's name on it, in Vicarie Pro. Receiving two different Compostelas wasn't possible. This pilgrim was going to give the Compostela to the other person's family (in memory of the other person) once he got home, and before he left Santiago he wanted to return to the Pilgrim's Office and get a Distance Certificate for himself.

 

[Kathor1]

The text of the Compostela, in Latin, announces and confirms that the person whose name is written on it, has visited the tomb of the apostle James in Santiago de Compostela.

Replacing this name with the name of a deceased person or a person who is too ill to travel on foot (bike, horse, sailing boat, wheelchair) to SdC would make a mockery of this text.

The handwritten addition vicarie pro (no "in", nothing else, just these two words) followed by a name - that they do not Latinise by the way - is a nod to earlier times when people went on pilgrimage on behalf of another person and reaped the spiritual benefits on behalf of this other person who did not go, could not go or did not want to go.

This handwritten addition is a modern invention. I've never seen it on a copy of a Compostela that predates the current revival (since the 1980s/1990s).

 

[Kathor1]

Below are two examples published on Twitter. This is what it ought to look like - obviously without the red frame that the poster added digitally to emphasise it.

Make sure that you use the correct Latin phrase when you present it, at the desk in the Pilgrim Office, written on a piece of paper together with the name of your chosen person. More often than not the volunteer will simply copy word for word what you had written on your paper.

 

[Blister Bill]

Kind of looks like the sort of thing (spelt correctly) one could do one's self Given the spelling mistake on the second example me thinks someone may have had the same impulse.

 

[Kathor1]

Given the spelling mistake on the second example me thinks someone may have had the same impulse.

Stop, stop, stop !!! I don't see a spelling mistake in the second example. If so I would not have posted it! I have embarked on a mini-mission to erase this mistake once and for all in our collective and visual memories.

It is VICARIE PRO in the second example. Capital letters, and the A looks perhaps similar to the R but they are written as two different letters.

 

[Blister Bill]

Kind of looks like the sort of thing (spelt correctly) one could do one's self

Stop, stop, stop ! I don't see a spelling mistake in the second example. I would not have posted it!

It is VICARIE PRO in the second example. Capital letters and the A looks perhaps similar to the R but they are printed as two different letters.

I didn't like to mention that you were now responsible for continuing the erratum! Have you become the second forum member ignoring your advice?

 

[Flog]

@nycwalking, as others have said, the compostela can only be written out to the pilgrim who has actually walked and presented their credencial, but it can be dedicated by Vicarie Pro to another who is either deceased or unable to undertake a pilgrimage. You cannot claim two compostelas.

The spelling mistake on the second example isn't with the Vicarie Pro.

 

[lt56ny]

The text of the Compostela, in Latin, announces and confirms that the person whose name is written on it, has visited the tomb of the apostle James in Santiago de Compostela.

Replacing this name with the name of a deceased person or a person who is too ill to travel on foot (bike, horse, sailing boat, wheelchair) to SdC would make a mockery of this text.

The handwritten addition vicarie pro (no "in", nothing else, just these two words) followed by a name - that they do not Latinise by the way - is a nod to earlier times when people went on pilgrimage on behalf of another person and reaped the spiritual benefits on behalf of this other person who did not go, could not go or did not want to go.

This handwritten addition is a modern invention. I've never seen it on a copy of a Compostela that predates the current revival (since the 1980s/1990s).

I see you know MUCH more than I do about this. I just finished my camino and had a very dear friend of mine's name added on the bottom. The person who issued my compostela told me that my friend's first name was in Latin. I prefer not to post the compostela here but if you are interested I could send you a photo of the compostela

 

[Flog]

I see you know MUCH more than I do about this. I just finished my camino and had a very dear friend of mine's name added on the bottom. The person who issued my compostela told me that my friend's first name was in Latin. I prefer not to post the compostela here but if you are interested I could send you a photo of the compostela

I dont think this is helpful, Kathor1 is correct..

With the Vicarie Pro, the name is normally written in it's original language but is at the discretion of the staff/volunteer and it can be added in latin if the pilgrim asks. Usually the pilgrim is asked to write the name clearly on a piece of paper and we go from there. Most pilgrims want the everyday name of the person anyway.

 

[t2andreo]

This question has before been posted but I never cemented information into my memory bank.

How do I request a Compostela in another’s name?

Also, is it possible to receive two, one in my name and the other one?

You cannot request or obtain a Compostela in someone else's name. Every pilgrim must appear in person to request a Compostela in their own name. We have seen many cases of one pilgrim presenting two stamped credencials and seeking a Compostela for themself and - say - a deceased spouse, family member or friend.

The sole exception to this rule is what we call Vicarie Pro - Latin for "in place of." A pilgrim, obtaining a Compostela, can request that their Compostela be dedicated to another person who is either deceased, or whose medical or other circumstances mean that they could never complete their own Camino.

You can even request a second Compostela issued solely in your name. So, you would have one to present to the person named "Vicarie Pro" and the other for yourself, if this consideration is important to you.

I have done this on several occasions for deceased family members. But, you need not be related to the person named "Vicarie Pro" at the bottom of your Compostela.

This is a free service, but must be requested when you are at the counter receiving YOUR Compostela.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[trecile]

The sole exception to this rule is what we call Vicare Pro - Latin for "in place of."

Please note that it is not vicare pro. The correct spelling is vicarie pro as in the examples above.

A frequent spelling mistake, unfortunately also sometimes found in the handwritten addition on a Compostela.

It is vicarie pro - note the letter “i” following “r”.

vicarie - Latin is Simple Online Dictionary

Find vicarie (Adverb) in the Latin Online Dictionary with English meanings, all fabulous forms & inflections and a conjugation table: vicarie, vicariius, vicariissime

www.latin-is-simple.com

 

[Flog]

You can even request a second Compostela issued solely in your name. So, you would have one to present to the person named "Vicare Pro" and the other for yourself, if this consideration is important to you.

No you can't. You can request
a replacement if you lose it, thats all. You can't be given two.

I have done this on several occasions for deceased family members.

Really? With respect Tom, when have you actually ever issued a compostela to anyone, ever?

 

[Kathor1]

The sole exception to this rule is what we call Vicare Pro - Latin for "in place of."

@t2andreo: No, "we" don't call it so. It is you who, for years, has misspelled this Latin phrase on this forum in numerous posts of yours. You appear to be resistant to learning. Do you ever read replies about this topic in threads where you participate yourself?

 

[David]

The text of the Compostela, in Latin, announces and confirms that the person whose name is written on it, has visited the tomb of the apostle James in Santiago de Compostela.

Replacing this name with the name of a deceased person or a person who is too ill to travel on foot (bike, horse, sailing boat, wheelchair) to SdC would make a mockery of this text.

Well don't most pilgrims get their compostela without visiting the tomb first?

Now ... the Roman Church believes in spirits, ghosts, demons, saints, etc - all 'living' in some way
so in theory one could carry a credential for the body-missing person and get it stamped along the way and present it for Compostela?
.. compostela is an anagram of ectoplasm ... so .....

 

[Kathor1]

so in theory one could

The majority of pilgrims are not interested in an individual poster's theory, whether it is meant to be esoteric or humorous or both.

They are interested in practice. Accurate information is in particular valuable for new pilgrims. And that means that you cannot carry a credencial for another person and have it stamped and present it to get a Compostela for another person. Only for yourself.

 

[Blister Bill]

And here was me confused by the word forum: "a public place for open discussion" Be a bit dull if it was all technical and no banter don't you think ?

 

[Kathor1]

Be a bit dull if it was all technical and no banter don't you think ?

I could now quote that there is "a time for everything" and try to make it sound funny. But I found something else: an Anagram Solver.

Compostela is a 10 letter word. So ectoplasm is not an anagram of the name but merely an anagram of 9 letters of the name.

An 8 letter anagram of the name is comatose. That's what I am going to feel like soon.

 

[David]

The majority of pilgrims are not interested in an individual poster's theory, whether it is meant to be esoteric or humorous or both.

They are interested in practice. Accurate information is in particular valuable for new pilgrims. And that means that you cannot carry a credencial for another person and have it stamped and present it to get a Compostela for another person. Only for yourself.

A strange point of view ... though I think you may actually find that you are in a tiny tiny minority as the overwhelming majority of humans enjoy humour (and banter) .. and would point out that everything we have and use and talk of was once a 'theory' ...

as for the number of letters in compostela and in ectoplasm ... no, you don't get the basis of humour at all ..

The rules are clear, as we all know, one has to be physically present (not a ghost) with one's credential to receive the compostela .. that question has already been clearly answered as also has how to have a compostela in another name..

 

[Camino Chrissy]

If I want to keep reading this thread, it looks like I will need to join in with @truenorthpilgrm's post on another thread and "get the popcorn out".

 

[Flog]

Be a bit dull if it was all technical and no banter don't you think ?

Wouldn't it..

..but the OP had specific questions that needed answering. The many lurkers who could also benefit from those same answers, have to wade through all this nonsense, propagated by the same few to find them, which no doubt is off putting for many, particularly for those above the mental age of twelve.

 

[nycwalking]

You cannot request or obtain a Compostela in someone else's name. Every pilgrim must appear in person to request a Compostela in their own name. We have seen many cases of one pilgrim presenting two stamped credencials and seeking a Compostela for themself and - say - a deceased spouse, family member or friend.

The sole exception to this rule is what we call Vicare Pro - Latin for "in place of." A pilgrim, obtaining a Compostela, can request that their Compostela be dedicated to another person who is either deceased, or whose medical or other circumstances mean that they could never complete their own Camino.

You can even request a second Compostela issued solely in your name. So, you would have one to present to the person named "Vicare Pro" and the other for yourself, if this consideration is important to you.

I have done this on several occasions for deceased family members. But, you need not be related to the person named "Vicare Pro" at the bottom of your Compostela.

This is a free service, but must be requested when you are at the counter receiving YOUR Compostela.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Tom,

Thank you.

My mom was with me on my first camino in 2001.

I was 39 to her 70 so our fitness levels were very different.

She had a wonderful time taking: buses, taxis, and trains meeting me along the route, while I walked.

She passed this September at 93.

On my next camino I will get a Compostela for we two.

 

[nycwalking]

If I want to keep reading this thread, it looks like I will need to join in with @truenorthpilgrm's post on another thread and "get the popcorn out".

Will you be having that with salt and butter?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Will you be having that with salt and butter?

Absolutely! Is there any other way?

 

[David Tallan]

This question has before been posted but I never cemented information into my memory bank.

How do I request a Compostela in another’s name?

Also, is it possible to receive two, one in my name and the other one?

The short answer is you can't. The Compostela will always be issued in your name.

What you can do is ask that it be noted on the Compostela that you walked on someone else's behalf ("Vicarie Pro" the other person). If you do that, your name will still be included, in its Latin version, in the main body of the Compostela. At the bottom, they will hand wrote "Vicarie Pro" and then name that you give them (as you give it to them, not Latinized).

 

[t2andreo]

No you can't. You can request
a replacement if you lose it, thats all. You can't be given two.



Really? With respect Tom, when have you actually ever issued a compostela to anyone, ever?

Oh dear! Have I poked the velutina nest? I really do not like to 'argue,' but:

• I have personally seen the "two-fer" requests honored. I also have Camino friends who have done this, not a lot, but it has occurred.
• Whether and how many Compostelas I have personally issued, or have issued with the Vicarie Pro annotation is irrelevant.
• I maintain this optional 'benefit' may be available if one asks. If you remember or believe otherwise, can we just agree to disagree on this point?

 

[t2andreo]

Please note that it is not vicare pro. The correct spelling is vicarie pro as in the examples above.

Thank you for the charitable correction. This is one of those words that I habitually misspell. My spell check does not catch it. It's sort of like the receive / recieve paradox.

I have corrected the spelling, as you pointed out. I shall endeavor to 'get it right' in future.

Boy, some other folks in this thread are rather spelling-sensitive today.

Oh, and by the way. I did an AI enabled internet search for the meaning of Vicare and Vicarie. Here are the results:

• The Latin word "vicarie" means "the office or position of a substitute" or "deputieship," derived from "vicarius" which translates to "substitute" or "deputy" in English; essentially referring to someone acting in place of another person.
• The Latin word "vicare" means "to substitute" or "to act as a deputy," essentially signifying someone acting in place of another; the English word "vicar" directly derives from this Latin root "vicarius" which carries the same meaning.

Absent a Latin scholar to weigh in on this, I conclude there may be two ways to spell the one Latin word. I am unable to determine which is which in our shared Camino context.

I further suggest this is a "tempest in a teapot."

Best regards to all,

Tom

Hope this makes everyone 'happy.'

 

[t2andreo]

I do not need to establish my bonafides to anyone on this Forum, but, as you have challenged me, I shall elucidate.

I have worked as a volunteer at the Pilgrim Office every year since 2014, absent the COVID-lost year of 2020. For 2023 and 2024, care-giving responsibilities for my critically ill spouse have prevented me from participating in this activity. It is my fervent hope to return once again to volunteer duties sometime in 2025.

As a point of fact, I have - to date - requested to NOT issue Compostelas when I volunteer. This was done for the simple reason that I consider my handwriting to not be up to generating a document / certificate so highly prized by many pilgrims. My personal Compostelas, issued by staff and other volunteers, range from beautiful examples of calligraphy to 'chicken scratching.'

So, to recap, as of 2022, the automated production of certificates had not yet started. When I next return, I consider it safe to request Compostela duty, as I will not have to handwrite much - except for the Vicarie Pro / Vicare Pro annotations.

Please do not be churlish. We are not required to agree with each other. We are bidden to try to get along. I have always tried to do this.

Let us all try to be civil to one another.

Best regards,

Tom

 

[lt56ny]

I dont think this is helpful, Kathor1 is correct..

With the Vicarie Pro, the name is normally written in it's original language but is at the discretion of the staff/volunteer and it can be added in latin if the pilgrim asks. Usually the pilgrim is asked to write the name clearly on a piece of paper and we go from there. Most pilgrims want the everyday name of the person anyway.

I was just relaying my experience. If it didn't help like I always say ignore me. The volunteer in the office asked me to write my friend's name on a piece of paper and then after he handed me back my compostela he told me it was all written in Latin including my dear friend's first name. Regardless if it helped or not it was a very moving moment for me that I will always remember. I am not being defensive and really do not care what you think of my contribution, but it seems to be a little harsh. But no worries most criticism I receive in life is is accepted when it is valid whether I like it or not. I was not trying to be helpful or add to any wisdom here, I was just retelling my experience in a moment that was very emotionally powerful to me. I am not sure why you are attacking people here who are also just trying to relay their own experience.
The bottom line is that when any pilgrim wants to memorialize a dear friend or loved one the volunteer/staff person will explain to them the correct procedure and I am sure answer any question a person may have regarding this.

 

[Flog]

The bottom line is that when any pilgrim wants to memorialize a dear friend or loved one the volunteer/staff person will explain to them the correct procedure and I am sure answer any question a person may have regarding this.

Thank you, and I explained exactly that in post 13 of this thread, the one you've just quoted. This thread started out as a simple request for information. I get exasperated at times because I'm trying to relay not anecdotes, but reliable and accurate information, based on my experience, not as a pilgrim receiving a compostela, but as someone who has actually written (and printed) many thousands of them, and as someone who takes advice from senior staff when in doubt. Yes, I accept there will always be the odd outlier and exception, as in your case, just as there are with everything in life,

My sole intention is to be helpful and I choose not to ignore your posts, nor anyone else's posts, thank you for understanding.

 

[Kathor1]

I conclude there may be two ways to spell the one Latin word

I should not reply. But really, such nonsense, "doing an AI enabled internet research and then coming to a conclusion". The only conclusion to draw from this is that you don't know Latin grammar. That is nothing to be ashamed off. Vicare = to act as a deputy is a verb. Vicarie = on behalf of is an adverb; it is the adverbial form of vicarius which is an adjective. There are no two ways of spelling. Just accept that you misspelled the phrase numerous times and now you know the correct form and that's it. I hope.

Pilgrims should receive accurate information and not shoddy information and wrong information. That's what is important.

 

[t2andreo]

I should not reply. But really, such nonsense, "doing an AI enabled internet research and then coming to a conclusion". The only conclusion to draw from this is that you don't know Latin grammar. That is nothing to be ashamed off. Vicare = to act as a deputy is a verb. Vicarie = on behalf of is an adverb; it is the adverbial form of vicarius which is an adjective. There are no two ways of spelling. Just accept that you misspelled the phrase numerous times and now you know the correct form and that's it. I hope.

Pilgrims should receive accurate information and not shoddy information and wrong information. That's what is important.

I defer to your, clearly superior knowledge of Latin grammar.

Thank you for explaining this.