Backpack: UL vs. Structured vs. In-between

[Osterman]

Hi.
I'm planning my CF next May/June from SJPDP.
My base weight varies from 4,4 kg. (light version) to 4,7 kg. (medium-rare) to 5,1 (full Monty).
I am very undecided as far as the backpack is concerned.
The options (regardless of the exact model) are:
1. UL (e.g. Kumo 36) - 580 gr.
2. Medium (e.g. Gregory Focal 38) - 1130 gr.
3. Comfort (e.g. Gregory Paragon 38) - 1360 gr.
4. Comfort plus (e.g. Deuter Futura Pro 36) - 1580 gr.
Of course, UL is lighter, but Comfort is more comfortable.
I am 63 y.o., 175 cm. and a little overweight (85 kg.).
Another important point is ventilation: I don't want to have my back wet from sweating, even if I understand that no sweating is impossible.
What is your experience and your opinion?
Thanks a lot.

 

[Pafayac]

I am walking from albergue to albergue, therefore I can carry very few things, and I do not need a structured backpack.
Mine is a Wilsa 38L.
Consider that if you are in light version (4.4kg), choosing the Deuter Futura Pro 36 means that you increase the carried weight by a third...

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

To me comfort is King. You are going to be carrying this pack for many days.

After my first few long distance walks I stopped worrying so much about weight and started worrying more about long-term comfort.

Your base weight looks great, regardless of which pack option you choose.

For the Camino I use a Dueter Futura 32, it's very comfortable and I specifically chose it because of the excellent ventilation. Something that most ultralight packs do not offer.

I could go for a lighter 25l pack in the summer months but I don't because the small amount of additional weight saved isn't worth trading for the comfort that my Dueter gives me.

Purely for comparison purposes I'm 173 cm, 60 years old and 70 kgs.
If you're seriously worried about weight remember that it doesn't matter if it's on your waistline or on your back: your feet/legs still need to carry it. You say you're overweight, you've got plenty of time to lose a kilo or two if you wanted.

 

[MikeJS]

I guess it is whatever you feel comfortable with. I use an old unstructured ex UK Army rucksack. I have used the same one on all my caminos and never felt the need to change it. I typically carry around 10kg (ex wine and water!) and walk around 30 to 40 kms a day. Now I weigh around 70kgs, 177 cms and 70 years old……..

 

[Anhalter]

While i did not own a Kumo personally (i had the lighter Murmur and now the Bonfus Iterus) i like to recommend it very much for people that can their weight decently low. It is not a huge pack, and if you get your things inside it you will not have a problem with the weight.
I like the features, it is quite water resistant and has a bit of a hip belt (more for storage reasons). I think it a good beginner pack in the ultralight world.

edit: I personally do not like the design of Gregory and Deuter (also Osprey). If i was looking for something with a frame, theres better options at Gossamergear or Zpacks.

 

[PiesIrlandeses]

It is total weight when laden that really matters.

Only consider a UL bag if you will otherwise have difficulty getting your total laden weight down to 10% of your bodyweight.

 

[Martin Cole]

I use an Osprey 45, I don't fill it, always room for an extra packet of biscutis cheese, breadstick, membrillo, orange, apple, food to cook at the hostel in the evening etc. A kilo or 2 is neither here or there at the end of the day.
Don't over think it.

 

[Purple Backpack]

I made the switch to GG Kumo for my last Camino and use their daypack, the Loris, at home all the time. I was a hard core Osprey fan for years and still use those in cold weather when I need more gear. But for a warmer weather Camino, I’m a huge fan of the Kumo. To offset the pack being right against the back on a hot day, I switched the back pad to an aerated one offered by GG. It worked okay and I don’t like trampoline backpacks anyway. Fair warning, you have to pack really light for the ultralights to work well but I usually carry about 12 pounds in the summer, including a couple of liters of water and food.

 

[t2andreo]

A relatively heavier rucksack - when empty - might be superior to an empty ultralight rucksack. The key, I think, is which loaded setup is more COMFORTABLE.

I use an older Osprey Kestrel 38 liter rucksack - have done for some years now. It is among the heavier rucksacks when empty. But, even when filled, it fits like a glove, carries well, and I do not notice that I am wearing it after the first couple of days. In fact, when I am without it, beyond that point, I feel "naked."

I suppose my point is that the rucksack is an important piece of the overall kit configuration. Just because it is very light when empty, does not necessarily mean that it carries well, when loaded.

It depends - like most variable things in life.

In my experience, the two most most important items of gear are your walking footwear, and your rucksack. IMHO, all else flows from there and is of secondary importance.

If the footwear and rucksack are ill-fitted or not comfortable, it does not matter what the cost, quality, construction, cost, or weight of the rest of your gear is. You are starting at a performance disadvantage.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[peregrina2000]

What is your experience and your opinion?

I am in my mid-70s and have had several bouts with lower back pain over the years. If you choose an UL pack, and if you have ever had any hint of lower back problems, make sure to do a lot of training walks. I carry about 9 kilos in a pack with an internal frame, and it has never given me any problems with back stress. But I can tell you from experience that if I just put an unstructured day pack on my back, with a couple of guide books and a water bottle inside, my lower back will be hurting within a few hours.

And an aside — A lot of people say they will use pack transfer because of lower back pain, but I think that many have made incorrect assumptions about what carrying weight will do to their backs. If you wear an internal frame pack properly, the weight is transferred to the hips, and the back will not be affected at all. And the advantages of having your stuff with you, which have been described in so many threads, are all yours without back pain!

 

[Purple Backpack]

How to pack makes a huge difference with ultralights. With the Kumo, if the packing is off, it’s not as comfortable. So my 14 ounce sleeping back in the bottom, clothing in a light packing cube against my back and higher up. Small bags with first aid/electronics tucked in empty spaces, heavy toiletries up top and against my back. Jacket/fleece on very top or mesh outside. Important stuff in top pocket. Phone/etc in hip pockets. I use a rain cover to avoid trying to get pack itself dried out and as a bright cover when road walking.

 

[Walkerooni]

If you're seriously worried about weight remember that it doesn't matter if it's on your waistline or on your back: your feet/legs still need to carry it. You say you're overweight, you've got plenty of time to lose a kilo or two if you wanwanted.

Such a key point. I recall being puzzled a few times when asked by people 25+ kg overweight if I cut tags out of my t-shirts, cut handle off my toothbrush, etc to cut the weight in my pack.

 

[Osterman]

If you're seriously worried about weight remember that it doesn't matter if it's on your waistline or on your back: your feet/legs still need to carry it.

I'm not sure if I fully agree. It's true that feet/legs have to carry the weight, but the backpack represents only 10% (max) of that total weight.
So, to me, the point is that that 10% is on your shoulders and hips. As you said before, if it does not fit well, probably it hurts, regardless of how much that weight is, when you carry it for 30+ days and 5+ hours a day.

 

[DeaconJohnny]

Hi.
I'm planning my CF next May/June from SJPDP.
My base weight varies from 4,4 kg. (light version) to 4,7 kg. (medium-rare) to 5,1 (full Monty).
I am very undecided as far as the backpack is concerned.
The options (regardless of the exact model) are:
1. UL (e.g. Kumo 36) - 580 gr.
2. Medium (e.g. Gregory Focal 38) - 1130 gr.
3. Comfort (e.g. Gregory Paragon 38) - 1360 gr.
4. Comfort plus (e.g. Deuter Futura Pro 36) - 1580 gr.
Of course, UL is lighter, but Comfort is more comfortable.
I am 63 y.o., 175 cm. and a little overweight (85 kg.).
Another important point is ventilation: I don't want to have my back wet from sweating, even if I understand that no sweating is impossible.
What is your experience and your opinion?
Thanks a lot.

Have you considered Osprey? They have a mesh back that helps airflow.

 

[Robo]

I'm not sure if I fully agree. It's true that feet/legs have to carry the weight, but the backpack represents only 10% (max) of that total weight.
So, to me, the point is that that 10% is on your shoulders and hips. As you said before, if it does not fit well, probably it hurts, regardless of how much that weight is, when you carry it for 30+ days and 5+ hours a day.

With a well fitted pack, why would there be any weight at all on the shoulders? It’s all on the hips. Or maybe that is only the case with a well structured pack?

I go for comfort with a well structured pack.

Also being a bit overweight…..I lose body weight pre Camino!!!

edited: maybe it is the internal frame of the more 'structured' pack that helps transfer all the weight to the hip belt? It would be hard to see how that would be the case with a UL pack. Hence more weight on the shoulders.

 

[alwalker]

To me comfort is King. You are going to be carrying this pack for many days.

After my first few long distance walks I stopped worrying so much about weight and started worrying more about long-term comfort.

Your base weight looks great, regardless of which pack option you choose.

For the Camino I use a Dueter Futura 32, it's very comfortable and I specifically chose it because of the excellent ventilation. Something that most ultralight packs do not offer.

I could go for a lighter 25l pack in the summer months but I don't because the small amount of additional weight saved isn't worth trading for the comfort that my Dueter gives me.

Purely for comparison purposes I'm 173 cm, 60 years old and 70 kgs.
If you're seriously worried about weight remember that it doesn't matter if it's on your waistline or on your back: your feet/legs still need to carry it. You say you're overweight, you've got plenty of time to lose a kilo or two if you wanted.

I went through the same process and I went away from my much liked Dueter 32 to an Osprey Levity 45. It comes in 3 lengths that allowed me to adjust the shoulder straps off my shoulders. Approx 960gms and has the back air space.

 

[alwalker]

I am in my mid-70s and have had several bouts with lower back pain over the years. If you choose an UL pack, and if you have ever had any hint of lower back problems, make sure to do a lot of training walks. I carry about 9 kilos in a pack with an internal frame, and it has never given me any problems with back stress. But I can tell you from experience that if I just put an unstructured day pack on my back, with a couple of guide books and a water bottle inside, my lower back will be hurting within a few hours.

And an aside — A lot of people say they will use pack transfer because of lower back pain, but I think that many have made incorrect assumptions about what carrying weight will do to their backs. If you wear an internal frame pack properly, the weight is transferred to the hips, and the back will not be affected at all. And the advantages of having your stuff with you, which have been described in so many threads, are all yours without back pain!

I cant carry a heavy pack anymore without it effecting my my leg. I now use a trailer (for the last 7caminos - love it)

 

[Purple Backpack]

With a well fitted pack, why would there be any weight at all on the shoulders? It’s all on the hips. Or maybe that is only the case with a well structured pack?

I go for comfort with a well structured pack.

Also being a bit overweight…..I lose body weight pre Camino!!!

edited: maybe it is the internal frame of the more 'structured' pack that helps transfer all the weight to the hip belt? It would be hard to see how that would be the case with a UL pack. Hence more weight on the shoulders.

I wear all my packs low, settled over hip bones. When walking steep uphills, I loosen the hips and let more ride on shoulders, on downhills, tighten up the hips and let the weight off the shoulders.

 

[Purple Backpack]

True confession time. I switched to ultralight gear for one reason. Getting a couple of pounds of weight off the actual pack weight means I can take more fun stuff and still stay within limits.

 

[trecile]

It is total weight when laden that really matters.

I disagree. How comfortable the pack is with the items that you need to bring is what really matters.

 

[peregrina2000]

I disagree. How comfortable the pack is with the items that you need to bring is what really matters.

I agree with @trecile. Total weight is of course relevant, but the real question is whether your body can handle whatever weight is thrown against it. With an internal frame, the weight goes off your shoulders and back, and is transferred onto your hips. @Purple Backpack has suggested a way to pack a UL so that your back won’t feel it as badly, but I think that the way in which your pack distributes the weight (to back, hips or shoulders) is the crucial thing that will determine whether you can walk for a month with it.

 

[KDub]

I own and have used the GG Kumo 36 on Camino. I did not have my gear dialed in as well back then and found that UL pack to not be very comfortable.

I have since gotten things down to the bare minimum and now use 19-20 liter ultralight packs/fast packs. It takes some discipline for sure!

 

[dick bird]

If 5.1 kgs is the full monty, weight isn´t an issue. There are posts here from people weighing weigh under 75kgs, older than you and carrying 8kgs+. Here is another one, I am over 70, weigh 72 kgs and routinely carry 9-10kgs on camino, more bushwalking. Not boasting, trying to make a point: although it is silly to carry stuff you don´t really need, you can also go too far trying to reduce weight. Go to a good outdoor goods store, even better go to more than one. Talk to the staff, tell them what you want to do, try on a few packs, and then choose. All I can add here is that design is a compromise. If kit is lightweight, there will probably be a sacrifice somewhere else.

 

[dick bird]

Incidentally, I have searched for reliable, research-based, peer-reviewed evidence to support the 10% of your bodyweight rule. I have so far failed. Forum members may feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[Joynz]

It is total weight when laden that really matters.

Only consider a UL bag if you will otherwise have difficulty getting your total laden weight down to 10% of your bodyweight.

The 10% of body weight’ thing is based on a study of kids carrying school books. It is not a ‘rule’ as such!

Of course, lighter is easier - and with no need for a tent, mat, stove etc, most people should easily be able to keep their pack at 10% or much less…

 

[Pafayac]

The only rule about backpack weight is that it should be as light as possible.
I can’t see any reason why a man weighing 150kgs could carry a 15kgs pack as easily as I do with a 8kgs pack.

 

[Gobsmacked by the World]

I'm in the 'comfort' club. UL is expensive and not known for comfort. It also presumes that all your other gear is dialed in as UL (my base 7 or 8 Kg). I once bought a UL pack and realized I couldn't use it, some of the straps seemed to be just hair bands.

I did find though, and ordered out of curiousity, an inexpensive UL frame backpack off Aliexpress, Naturehike 40l, 1060 grams, only $100.Cdn (maybe 60 USD) that actually has good reviews!
TBH... I laugh at myself when I catch myself agonizing for an item that is 20 grams heavier than the other when I could stand to lose a few Kg myself.
I love my trusty Gregory Zulu 30l (see profile pic). Heavy, but comfy. It has the same harness as much larger volume packs and it rides well (for me).

BTW, if the pack you want doesn't have a mesh back to prevent sweating, consider the frame below. I bought it for my around town daypack and like it. It is sold on UL gear sites.

 

[Robo]

Whilst I really do focus on reducing my pack weight as much as I can (about 6.5-7kg), that also includes a comfortable pack that is 1.4 kg! It just fits really well.

I see no point in being 'uncomfortable' to save 500-700 gms........the weight of a small bottle of water.

But what had a significant impact on overall comfort and led to an injury free Camino last year, was............

Losing 10 kg+ in body Weight!!

Huge difference.................
Much more effective than drilling holes in toothbrush handles.

I'll aim to be even lighter on my next Camino.
And I might even get into the 'normal' BMI range (<25)

I reckon there should be two "rules of thumb"

1. A pack no more than 10% of your bodyweight. (it's not a bad 'max' target.
2. A BMI of 25 or less!

I'm sure number 2 leads to many more blisters than number 1.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I'm not sure if I fully agree. It's true that feet/legs have to carry the weight, but the backpack represents only 10% (max) of that total weight.
So, to me, the point is that that 10% is on your shoulders and hips. As you said before, if it does not fit well, probably it hurts, regardless of how much that weight is, when you carry it for 30+ days and 5+ hours a day.

Yes but I'm not talking about the backpack, I'm talking about bodyweight i.e specifically the OP talks about being overweight so I'm advising that rather than getting hung up about half a kilo on his back that he considers losing a kilo or two of body weight - which I have alluded to as 'waistline'. As anyone who is overweight knows, when you're overweight it is not just carried on your waistline.

I agree, your hips and shoulders could well hurt if your backpack doesn't fit properly. So I'm suggesting that the OP considers getting a slightly heavier, more comfortable backpack and losing bodyweight to compensate.

Remember the majority of health issues that pilgrim's face - that can become absolute camino stoppers - are feet and leg related, so if the OP successfully loses additional kilos then that will be beneficial.

edited: maybe it is the internal frame of the more 'structured' pack that helps transfer all the weight to the hip belt? It would be hard to see how that would be the case with a UL pack. Hence more weight on the shoulders.

Correct. That said, some ultralight packs do actually have a frame, often removable so that you can adjust your pack to suit the load you're carrying for each trip.

Ultralight is a much misused term. There are no rules or real guidelines as to what is ultralight and what is not. Manufacturers seem to feel that if they've made something that is lighter than anything else in their product line then they can call that item ultralight, even though it's twice as heavy as anything else by a true ultra light manufacturer.

Go to a good outdoor goods store, even better go to more than one. Talk to the staff, tell them what you want to do, try on a few packs, and then choose.

I agree 100% for a normal backpack. The problem is is that none of the best ultra light producers (Granite Gear, Hyperlite, Mountain Laurel, Gossmar Gear, Atom Packs etc ) products are available in stores. Or at least that is my experience here in Europe. I am currently struggling with this situation myself (I need a new non Camino pack)

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

It is total weight when laden that really matters.

Only consider a UL bag if you will otherwise have difficulty getting your total laden weight down to 10% of your bodyweight.

No, it's comfort that really matters. Several others have pointed out above that they carry significantly more than the so-called 10% guidelines: they also point out that they are comfortable doing so. I am another such.

Ul bags typically sacrifice padding and support in order to reduce weight. Which can lead to a less comfortable experience.

UL bags definitely have their place, for those that already have dialed in the rest of their gear they are very much worthwhile. But not in the situation you have described.

As @dick bird and @Joynz point out above, this 10% guideline that is constantly thrown about is overused.

For people that fall within the so-called normal range, yes it is definitely useful as a guideline to help discourage you from packing the kitchen sink. But if you're 155cm and weighing just 45 kilos it's ridiculous, ditto if you're 180cm and 150 kg.

 

[PiesIrlandeses]

No amount of comfort features - which are for the upper body only - on a pack will reduce the force of the pack's weight on the lower body.

 

[DanielleC]

I am in my mid-70s and have had several bouts with lower back pain over the years. If you choose an UL pack, and if you have ever had any hint of lower back problems, make sure to do a lot of training walks. I carry about 9 kilos in a pack with an internal frame, and it has never given me any problems with back stress. But I can tell you from experience that if I just put an unstructured day pack on my back, with a couple of guide books and a water bottle inside, my lower back will be hurting within a few hours.

And an aside — A lot of people say they will use pack transfer because of lower back pain, but I think that many have made incorrect assumptions about what carrying weight will do to their backs. If you wear an internal frame pack properly, the weight is transferred to the hips, and the back will not be affected at all. And the advantages of having your stuff with you, which have been described in so many threads, are all yours without back pain!

Which pack do you use? I also have lower back issues, so definitely keen to hear any advise and/or recommendations for framed backpacks as I would like to carry my things the whole way.

 

[JoroAtanasof]

Hi.
I'm planning my CF next May/June from SJPDP.
My base weight varies from 4,4 kg. (light version) to 4,7 kg. (medium-rare) to 5,1 (full Monty).
I am very undecided as far as the backpack is concerned.
The options (regardless of the exact model) are:
1. UL (e.g. Kumo 36) - 580 gr.
2. Medium (e.g. Gregory Focal 38) - 1130 gr.
3. Comfort (e.g. Gregory Paragon 38) - 1360 gr.
4. Comfort plus (e.g. Deuter Futura Pro 36) - 1580 gr.
Of course, UL is lighter, but Comfort is more comfortable.
I am 63 y.o., 175 cm. and a little overweight (85 kg.).
Another important point is ventilation: I don't want to have my back wet from sweating, even if I understand that no sweating is impossible.
What is your experience and your opinion?
Thanks a lot.

I completed Camino del Norte and Fisherman’s trail with Gregory Focal 38 , for me it is one of the best backpacks for Camino . It just has everything I need . To name a few - suspension system is great , all pockets are spacious, it is one of the lightest for it class .

 

[Roland49]

Hi.
I'm planning my CF next May/June from SJPDP.
What is your experience and your opinion?
Thanks a lot.

On my first Camino (CF) I used a b/p from Meteor (the OEM of Decathlon b/ps), weighing just over 900gr. Standard padded ventilation for the back. Comfortable, lightweight, suprisingly durable and well made.

On my second (CP) I used a LoweAlpine Trail Camino with Airzone ventilation. 500gr. more weight and you will feel it! The AirZone ventilation was not better than the standard padded ventilation!

For me, every gram less on my back will make me more happy. So I would tend to the Gregory Focal, the UL option is in most ways to overpriced!

The only advantage of the AirZone ventilation was that I didn't have to wash the b/p!
The paddding on your back of the first model will suck sweat from your back and later stains of salt will appear if the b/p is dry. The AirZone ventilation was just sponge cleaned and ready for the next adventure.

HTH
Roland

 

[David Tallan]

I reckon there should be two "rules of thumb"

1. A pack no more than 10% of your bodyweight. (it's not a bad 'max' target.
2. A BMI of 25 or less!

Frankly, I'm not too sure about either of those rules.

Rule 1 has always struck me as suspect. The idea that carrying that extra pound on your back is okay if only you gain ten pounds just seems a little absurd. And while larger clothes may weigh a little more than smaller ones, I'm not sure the weight of what you need to carry varies so much by the size of the person.

Rule 2 relies in the BMI, which all recent reports is telling me is a discredited measure that is being abandoned by a number of medical associations. After all, according to the BMI, many elite athletes are terribly obese (muscle weighing more than fat).

I would replace these by rules of thumb that are a bit less measurable and more commonsensical.

Carry as little as you possibly can and still have your daily needs met (reconsidering what is a "need"). Looking at what is common (as opposed to unique) in other people's posted packing lists can help.

Be as fit as possible with the tine available to train. Practice walking with a loaded backpack over distances, if possible on subsequent days.

You don't absolutely need to do either of these to have a successful Camino but they can significantly reduce the risk of issues and the pain experienced.

 

[trecile]

My rule is "carry what makes you comfortable so long as you can comfortably carry it"

 

[Robo]

Frankly, I'm not too sure about either of those rules.

Rule 1 has always struck me as suspect. The idea that carrying that extra pound on your back is okay if only you gain ten pounds just seems a little absurd. And while larger clothes may weigh a little more than smaller ones, I'm not sure the weight of what you need to carry varies so much by the size of the person.

Rule 2 relies in the BMI, which all recent reports is telling me is a discredited measure that is being abandoned by a number of medical associations. After all, according to the BMI, many elite athletes are terribly obese (muscle weighing more than fat).

I would replace these by rules of thumb that are a bit less measurable and more commonsensical.

Carry as little as you possibly can and still have your daily needs met (reconsidering what is a "need"). Looking at what is common (as opposed to unique) in other people's posted packing lists can help.

Be as fit as possible with the tine available to train. Practice walking with a loaded backpack over distances, if possible on subsequent days.

You don't absolutely need to do either of these to have a successful Camino but they can significantly reduce the risk of issues and the pain experienced.

I agree @David Tallan . It was a bit 'tongue in cheek'

But the point being, trying to save 500 gms on pack weight, for a person who is 15 kgs overweight, might be the wrong focus. As was my case..........

 

[Pafayac]

But the point being, trying to save 500 gms on pack weight, for a person who is 15 kgs overweight, might be the wrong focus. As was my case.

I do not agree: saving 500gr is always a good thing, especially if you are not fit.
Our backpack weighs the weight of our fears: often we bring too many things "in case of...".

 

[Robo]

I do not agree: saving 500gr is always a good thing, especially if you are not fit.
Our backpack weighs the weight of our fears: often we bring too many things "in case of...".

So you’re suggesting I would have been better off saving 500gms off my pack, than 15 kgs off my body. Well, after walking 1200 kms, being 15 kgs lighter I can assure you which of the two had the greatest impact.

I am merely suggesting, that if someone is very overweight, losing significant body weight has a big impact! Don’t just focus on pack weight.

We can agree to disagree

 

[Osterman]

Well, while saving 500 gr. on your pack is quite easy (just do not bring a couple shirts), losing 15 kg. of your weight is certainly more difficult and takes quite a lot of time.

 

[Robo]

Well, while saving 500 gr. on your pack is quite easy (just do not bring a couple shirts), losing 15 kg. of your weight is certainly more difficult and takes quite a lot of time.

Tell me about it. But it was worth it!

 

[Jarrad]

Oh, I love this thread! I agree with @Peterexpatkiwi that UL is not a great term. Maybe frameless? Unstructured?

I used a Montbell 40L ultralight pack on the CdF in 2014. The model I used (a Versalite) saved weight with the lack of hard back panel or any frame in the hip belt. Overall, I really did like it and used it again for a local trip recently. I found it comfortable IF I took the time to pack it correctly. After a week on the Camino, that came pretty easily. A downside is that the materials were thin and a rub up against a stucco wall required a duct tape repair.

And then I tried out an Osprey pack. The ventilated back and the nicely structured hip belt on the Osprey: for me it was a total game changer. I've used their larger packs for wilderness backpacking and the Talon 33 on several hut-to-hut treks in Europe. Yes, the idea of a little extra weight niggled at me at first, but the comfort and easy fit outweighs that concern for me. I will be using an Osprey on the CdF this coming spring.