Pavement!!!

[RickGordon12]

As much as I value how positive everyone is on the Camino forum, I’m surprised there isn’t more emphasis on how much pavement there is on the Norte.
Walking from Bilbao to San Vincente has been almost 100% pavement or sidewalk. As much as I appreciate the coastal views, it feels to me that so much of what I most enjoyed about the Frances, primitivo, and le puy is hard to access on the Norte.
It’s difficult to feel a historical connection when one knows no monk was walking this asphalt 100s of years ago. It’s also hard to meet other pilgrims walking as there is often no shoulder so safety is an issue. And being almost all on a road, you don’t feel that walking is necessary to get from one place to another and in fact, it is maybe more efficient to drive or bike.
I guess the Norte may be something for those who don’t want to repeat other routes, but for those wanting an experience with a little more nature and walking with others, this may not be the ideal choice

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Appreciate you posting your perspective. I seriously dislike lots of Road walking, cleary I need to do more research before walking the Norte.

 

[trecile]

There's actually quite a bit of discussion about the pavement on the Norte including this very long thread with alternatives to the asphalt:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/coastal-alternatives-to-the-nortes-asphalt.49578/

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I might have known!.

 

[grayland]

Not everyone is as adverse and hostile to pavement.
I tend to just take the way as it comes to me.

Of course. much of my available training walks at home are on pavement.

 

[Robo]

Interesting.
Pavement really destroys my feet. Achilles and Tendon issues ongoing.
So the Norte is probably not on my bucket list.
Hearing so much about the cobblestones on the Portuguese puts me off that too.
The VdlP this year was heaven with regard to walking surfaces.......

 

[trecile]

Not everyone is as adverse and hostile to pavement.

I don't mind pavement at all, and sometimes will take the road rather than a steep rocky trail.

The VdlP this year was heaven with regard to walking surfaces.......

Although I don't mind pavement, I love nice non-rocky dirt paths.

 

[JabbaPapa]

For comparison, nearly all of the first ~150K from here at the French-Italian border to Genova, towards Rome, is either tarmac, or lengthy detours up into mountains which nowadays I avoid for my knees and ankles -- though I can see that a few more coastal walking paths (promenades rather than hiking paths !!) and cycling paths have been set down than existed in 2000. Not many -- but every little bit helps.

Hearing so much about the cobblestones on the Portuguese puts me off that too.

It's not so bad on the Coastal -- the boardwalk is fantastic for your knees and ankles !! There are cobblestone patches, but more or less in similar proportions to "bad patches" on other Caminos ; whereas elsewhere in Portugal, they form a significant proportion of the hiking surfaces.

It's South of Porto and on the Central route where it's worse, but worst of all if you're on a DIY route off the main trails. Even so, when you're lucky enough to find cobblestones that are brand spanking new, it's actually a not unpleasant walking surface, especially when they're still overlaid by a fine layer of stone dust, before it's had a chance to seep down into the gaps between the stones.

Also, north of Porto, it becomes a LOT more frequent for there to be a pilgrim-made dirt trail in the grass verges beside a tarmac or cobblestone road.

It's also generally easier to find somewhere for a bit of a sit-down on the Portuguese Ways than most of the Spanish ones.

 

[woody66]

Hearing so much about the cobblestones on the Portuguese puts me off that too.

It's not so bad on the Coastal -- the boardwalk is fantastic for your knees and ankles !! There are cobblestone patches, but more or less in similar proportions to "bad patches" on other Caminos ; whereas elsewhere in Portugal, they form a significant proportion of the hiking surfaces.

Hi Robo!
The Coastal from Porto was easy on my feet and legs (i have posterior tibula and Achilles tendonitis ) and wear Stinsons like you;! they were great!
I cant remember any significant amount of cobbles except in the side streets of Porto old town!
It's a great walk you get a mix of the sea and when the walk takes you inland to Vigo you get the central; but again i walked this through to Pontevedra from there i took the Espiritual Variant no cobbles spring to mind.
The Variant is beautiful!!!!
I just finished the Frances from Leon last week!
I found more sections of the Frances significantly (an understatement) more challenging for me underfoot than anything on the Coastal!!! (i defo can't post some of my vids on the forum; due to my constant use of expletives)
The icing on the cake.
Arrived home on the 4th Oct; woke up with COVID on the 5th!
Buen Camino
Woody
PS Robo what make is the short version of your umbrella?

 

[Madis]

I would say that the best part of the Norte is still ahead of you. The Asturias region was amazing! Especially once you start going past Aviles.

Here is my Norte experience from 2023:
http://caminopilgrim.travel.blog/camino-de-santiago/camino-norte-2023/

 

[HARMINIA]

I agree, I just did Avilés - Ribadeo and the coastal route, it is amazing so beautiful! Do not throw it totally away, the Norte.

 

[StephenChad]

I only walked as far as Santander but really disliked the amount of tarmac and the frequent proximity to the highway. The best bits were away from the coast where all towns are now so built up. Mind you CF has plenty of tarmac too, including the first 18k from St Jean Pied de Port to Roncesvalles. Probably the best camino footpaths I have down have been on the Podiensis.

 

[barryfr]

Check mapping apps for alternative routes. On our Camino last spring, my wife and I took several coastal alternatives past Aviles. We met a young man who frequently used the Mapy.cz app to find coastal alternatives. (We actually first met him when we took an alternative route through Salinas, which apparently is no longer the official Camino route.) My least favorite pavement was the busy highway between Hazas and Laredo. I discovered later that Buen Camino shows a coastal route for that segment that people have described as quite beautiful.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

As much as I value how positive everyone is on the Camino forum, I’m surprised there isn’t more emphasis on how much pavement there is on the Norte.
Walking from Bilbao to San Vincente has been almost 100% pavement or sidewalk. As much as I appreciate the coastal views, it feels to me that so much of what I most enjoyed about the Frances, primitivo, and le puy is hard to access on the Norte.
It’s difficult to feel a historical connection when one knows no monk was walking this asphalt 100s of years ago. It’s also hard to meet other pilgrims walking as there is often no shoulder so safety is an issue. And being almost all on a road, you don’t feel that walking is necessary to get from one place to another and in fact, it is maybe more efficient to drive or bike.
I guess the Norte may be something for those who don’t want to repeat other routes, but for those wanting an experience with a little more nature and walking with others, this may not be the ideal choice

None of the camino routes is intended to be a nature hike. People seeking such may find that caminos are not ideal choices. Some certainly traverse very remote areas, but they still use roads (for the most part), and those routes require more facility with CastillIan than many walkers have.
It is worth knowing that many camino routes attempt to follow as closely along the paved routes of the Roman Empire as possible… so harder surfaces than one is perhaps imagining (some notable exceptions apply: the Salvador for example, but that is not, per se, a camino route). The Iberian peninsula was covered with *roads* from the Roman Empire forward (to the remnants, efforts to maintain what was possible, and then to rebuild, etc).
Also worth noting… camino routes have always had to change — there is no “true, original path” from start to finish. Conflicts, weather, disease all cause the paths to be re-routed across the centuries. The paths also get re-routed now for economic reasons, construction reasons, etc. Plus ca change…
Moreover, *walking* to Santiago was rarely, if ever, the norm. Horse… donkey… an entourage if one was wealthy.
Approaching the cathedral as a pilgrim does is really for a fairly immediate proximity (from Monte de Gozo) for the penitent in the medieval period.
I wish you well on your journey, and perhaps arriving at peace with what the camino routes *are* rather than bemoaning what they are not.
For those interested in matters historical about these routes as modes of conveyance:

https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/religions/religions-14-01157/article_deploy/religions-14-01157.pdf?version=1694423298

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I haven't read all of these posts yet, but my standout memories are of the beauty of the views in both directions on the first half; mountains, coast, and beautiful big cities, and special smaller ones. Since asphalt does not bother my feet, I have almost no memories of walking on it.

 

[jabrown]

As much as I value how positive everyone is on the Camino forum, I’m surprised there isn’t more emphasis on how much pavement there is on the Norte.
Walking from Bilbao to San Vincente has been almost 100% pavement or sidewalk. As much as I appreciate the coastal views, it feels to me that so much of what I most enjoyed about the Frances, primitivo, and le puy is hard to access on the Norte.
It’s difficult to feel a historical connection when one knows no monk was walking this asphalt 100s of years ago. It’s also hard to meet other pilgrims walking as there is often no shoulder so safety is an issue. And being almost all on a road, you don’t feel that walking is necessary to get from one place to another and in fact, it is maybe more efficient to drive or bike.
I guess the Norte may be something for those who don’t want to repeat other routes, but for those wanting an experience with a little more nature and walking with others, this may not be the ideal choice

It is a completely different experience than the Francais. I met few Americans, or pilgrims. It’s wonderful that onto itself.

 

[Dennis Pack]

I don't remember that much sealed surface ... but that could be because there was too many other wonderful things to focus on. Also, I often used Google maps to find other "ways" to get to my accommodation ... and, surprisingly, ran into many other pilgrims doing the same (and often had locals describing and pointing out paths I should take).

 

[ProGearKJ5]

As much as I value how positive everyone is on the Camino forum, I’m surprised there isn’t more emphasis on how much pavement there is on the Norte.
Walking from Bilbao to San Vincente has been almost 100% pavement or sidewalk. As much as I appreciate the coastal views, it feels to me that so much of what I most enjoyed about the Frances, primitivo, and le puy is hard to access on the Norte.
It’s difficult to feel a historical connection when one knows no monk was walking this asphalt 100s of years ago. It’s also hard to meet other pilgrims walking as there is often no shoulder so safety is an issue. And being almost all on a road, you don’t feel that walking is necessary to get from one place to another and in fact, it is maybe more efficient to drive or bike.
I guess the Norte may be something for those who don’t want to repeat other routes, but for those wanting an experience with a little more nature and walking with others, this may not be the ideal choice

I just got back from walking the Norte then cutting over to the Primitivo into Santiago and I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the amount of pavement on the Norte. While I thoroughly enjoyed the Norte, it did not feel like a Pilgrimage as much as the Primitivo and (last year) the Frances.

 

[Former member 21738]

I would say that the best part of the Norte is still ahead of you. The Asturias region was amazing! Especially once you start going past Aviles.

Here is my Norte experience from 2023:
http://caminopilgrim.travel.blog/camino-de-santiago/camino-norte-2023/

Thanks for sharing your Norte experience. Nice pics! Looking forward to doing my first Camino (del Norte) in 6 months. I don’t mind walking on pavement as long as it’s safe from motorized vehicles. Can’t wait to see the beautiful views, good food, better accommodations and fewer pilgrims.

 

[Thornley]

The largest Cities on the Frances over **** 900 km
Burgos 170 k , Leon 120 k and Santiago De C 190 k [ 500,000 people ]

This selected *** 150 km includes Bilbao 360,000 & Santander 170,000 [ 510.000 people ]
Two of the most important cities in Northern Spain for tourism and economy.
Had to be plenty of pavement around both but it is compensated if
** You turn left @ Oviedo and get on The Primitivo which funny enough also has a bit of the same.

 

[wabana]

I cycled Irun to Gihon, it was hard biking but awesome! Made the pavement fly by….. SpainisMore Agency was fabulous

 

[Caminogoat]

I

As much as I value how positive everyone is on the Camino forum, I’m surprised there isn’t more emphasis on how much pavement there is on the Norte.
Walking from Bilbao to San Vincente has been almost 100% pavement or sidewalk. As much as I appreciate the coastal views, it feels to me that so much of what I most enjoyed about the Frances, primitivo, and le puy is hard to access on the Norte.
It’s difficult to feel a historical connection when one knows no monk was walking this asphalt 100s of years ago. It’s also hard to meet other pilgrims walking as there is often no shoulder so safety is an issue. And being almost all on a road, you don’t feel that walking is necessary to get from one place to another and in fact, it is maybe more efficient to drive or bike.
I guess the Norte may be something for those who don’t want to repeat other routes, but for those wanting an experience with a little more nature and walking with others, this may not be the ideal choice

agree with you. I was on Norte until yesterday but now on the Camino do Mar. Those were the exact segments I skipped. I skipped Gijón and Aviles also. It’s my first time on do Mar so it’s too early to say but it’s been so very enjoyable. It reminds me of the Camino Portuguese Coastal without all that resort-like towns.

 

[Henriettagal]

As much as I value how positive everyone is on the Camino forum, I’m surprised there isn’t more emphasis on how much pavement there is on the Norte.
Walking from Bilbao to San Vincente has been almost 100% pavement or sidewalk. As much as I appreciate the coastal views, it feels to me that so much of what I most enjoyed about the Frances, primitivo, and le puy is hard to access on the Norte.
It’s difficult to feel a historical connection when one knows no monk was walking this asphalt 100s of years ago. It’s also hard to meet other pilgrims walking as there is often no shoulder so safety is an issue. And being almost all on a road, you don’t feel that walking is necessary to get from one place to another and in fact, it is maybe more efficient to drive or bike.
I guess the Norte may be something for those who don’t want to repeat other routes, but for those wanting an experience with a little more nature and walking with others, this may not be the ideal choice

I am currently on Del Norte w my husband. We have completed several long distance hikes before and this one does have a bit more tarmac than others but the scenery is amazing and we’ve had several dips in the ocean along our way. Great since it has been hotter than expected. We are in Santillana right now a 12th century village (think Romeo and Juliet.) We have had wonderful experiences in the larger cities as well. Each Camino is different. Having walked El Camino Frances… If I were to choose… I’d say El Camino Frances is more intimate having many peregrines. Del Norte is physically more difficult but we are enjoying fewer peregrines.

 

[David]

Confused by terminology ... in English English pavement means the seperate walking space for pedestrians alongside a road ... the road being named road.
Are you using pavement in the American English sense of the road? Our pavement being your sidewalk?

 

[Caminogoat]

I am currently on Del Norte w my husband. We have completed several long distance hikes before and this one does have a bit more tarmac than others but the scenery is amazing and we’ve had several dips in the ocean along our way. Great since it has been hotter than expected. We are in Santillana right now a 12th century village (think Romeo and Juliet.) We have had wonderful experiences in the larger cities as well. Each Camino is different. Having walked El Camino Frances… If I were to choose… I’d say El Camino Frances is more intimate having many peregrines. Del Norte is physically more difficult but we are enjoying fewer peregrines.

I am glad to hear you are enjoying the Norte. It is my favorite. If you are interested in cave paintings, you are very close to Altamira. You will encounter Tito Bustillo in Ribadesella. They close at the end of this month. Tickets are still available online.

 

[trecile]

Confused by terminology ... in English English pavement means the seperate walking space for pedestrians alongside a road ... the road being named road.
Are you using pavement in the American English sense of the road? Our pavement being your sidewalk?

In the US we often use "pavement" for any surface covered with cement or asphalt.

 

[David]

In the US we often use "pavement" for any surface covered with cement or asphalt.

View attachment 158511

In the English sense of a road (that vehicles drive along)?

 

[JabbaPapa]

Confused by terminology ... in English English pavement means the seperate walking space for pedestrians alongside a road ... the road being named road.
Are you using pavement in the American English sense of the road? Our pavement being your sidewalk?

It's why I personally always use the word tarmac.

 

[Tincatinker]

I’m always impressed by the ways in which the members of this forum can wander around a topic. That much of the Camino Norte involves walking on manufactured surfaces rather than the mud and cowshit of Galicia is a given. That anyone with the nowse to read a map can make their own way to Santiago is also a given. It doesn’t move and is fairly easy to find. The whole of the north coast of Spain is webbed with footpaths, tracks and by-ways. I guess it’s down to whether the pilgrim is trying to get to Santiago in a rush, aiming to take it slow or hasn’t made that decision yet

 

[David]

It's why I personally always use the word tarmac.

But in Britain we have pavements (where people walk) that are sometimes also layed with tarmac, asphalt, so to us the surface has nothing whatsoever to do with the function.
So nothing to do with surface we say pavements for where people walk and road for where vehicles go.

Hmmm, I think this is another one of the areas where English English is superior, clearer, than to foreign corrupted English, don't you think?

 

[C clearly]

so to us the surface has nothing whatsoever to do with the function.

Same for us. But...

So nothing to do with surface we say pavements for where people walk and road for where vehicles go.

Au contraire. Pavement is the kind of surface, whether it is a sidewalk (for walking) or a road (for vehicles).

Pavement can be asphalt, tarmac, concrete, or stones (as in "paving stones).

Sidewalk can be paved (any of the above materials) or even wood.

 

[David]

Same for us. But...


Au contraire. Pavement is the kind of surface, whether it is a sidewalk (for walking) or a road (for vehicles).

Pavement can be asphalt, tarmac, concrete, or stones (as in "paving stones).

Sidewalk can be paved (any of the above materials) or even wood.

C.C. - error .. yes, we all know the origin of the words - but what I am saying is nothing to do with the surface but which words we commonly use in the UK .. we say 'road' for where vehicles go and 'pavement' for where pedestrians go. Is really simple

 

[JabbaPapa]

Au contraire. Pavement is the kind of surface, whether it is a sidewalk (for walking) or a road (for vehicles).

Not in English English.

What we call road, way, path, and so on is not defined by material composition.

 

[C clearly]

I think we have exhausted the semantic aspect of the thread title.

Confused by terminology ...
Are you using pavement in the American English sense of the road? Our pavement being your sidewalk?

Yes, since the OP is from the US, my wild guess is that the American definition was being used. So, "pavement" is the type of surface that is made of asphalt, tarmac or concrete, whether it is on the road or on the pedestrian strip beside the road. In the context of this forum, we are discussed the effect and comfort of that type of walking surface

 

[Henriettagal]

In the US we often use "pavement" for any surface covered with cement or asphalt.

View attachment 158511

Few sidewalks. Road walking. It seems the further into Asturia the more they have sidewalks by highways.

 

[505badgolfer]

As much as I value how positive everyone is on the Camino forum, I’m surprised there isn’t more emphasis on how much pavement there is on the Norte.
Walking from Bilbao to San Vincente has been almost 100% pavement or sidewalk. As much as I appreciate the coastal views, it feels to me that so much of what I most enjoyed about the Frances, primitivo, and le puy is hard to access on the Norte.
It’s difficult to feel a historical connection when one knows no monk was walking this asphalt 100s of years ago. It’s also hard to meet other pilgrims walking as there is often no shoulder so safety is an issue. And being almost all on a road, you don’t feel that walking is necessary to get from one place to another and in fact, it is maybe more efficient to drive or bike.
I guess the Norte may be something for those who don’t want to repeat other routes, but for those wanting an experience with a little more nature and walking with others, this may not be the ideal choice

I finished walking the camino del norte on October 4. A very different experience from the camino frances. Quite a bit harder than the frances and only about 5% as many walkers.

 

[victor hooftman]

It depends also on which book you use. I walked with Rother. It was a nice route. Maybe pavement but then small roads! And on the book are alternative roads with less pavements.

 

[Wheelchairpilgrim]

That is good information. For me pavement is perfect because I am a wheelchair pilgrim. I hope 2025 I will roll there (I do every year a stage from the Netherlands, 2024 I hope to roll from Rocamadour to somewhere close to the Spanish border).
I will rethink my route and maybe take this one.

www.rolstoelpelgrim.nl

 

[TMinAlaska]

Interesting.
Pavement really destroys my feet. Achilles and Tendon issues ongoing.
So the Norte is probably not on my bucket list.
Hearing so much about the cobblestones on the Portuguese puts me off that too.
The VdlP this year was heaven with regard to walking surfaces.......

Hi! I am just researching the forum to get an idea of what to expect for surfaces on the VDLP and noticed your comment above. So, are you saying the walking surfaces are wonderful with lots of dirt/earth surfaces on the VDLP? We've done Norte and the tarmac was tough on my husband's shins, hoping for gentler surfaces when we walk VDLP.

 

[Madis]

Hi! I am just researching the forum to get an idea of what to expect for surfaces on the VDLP and noticed your comment above. So, are you saying the walking surfaces are wonderful with lots of dirt/earth surfaces on the VDLP? We've done Norte and the tarmac was tough on my husband's shins, hoping for gentler surfaces when we walk VDLP.

You will walk farm roads for about 90% of the time. Not that much tarmac (mostly in habitats). I did VdlP into Astorga this year and the whole way was pure enjoyment to walk.

Rain did cause some crazy water obstacles, but you can always take shoes and socks off before crossing and dry feet before continuing.

 

[Robo]

Hi Robo!
The Coastal from Porto was easy on my feet and legs (i have posterior tibula and Achilles tendonitis ) and wear Stinsons like you;! they were great!
I cant remember any significant amount of cobbles except in the side streets of Porto old town!
It's a great walk you get a mix of the sea and when the walk takes you inland to Vigo you get the central; but again i walked this through to Pontevedra from there i took the Espiritual Variant no cobbles spring to mind.
The Variant is beautiful!!!!
I just finished the Frances from Leon last week!
I found more sections of the Frances significantly (an understatement) more challenging for me underfoot than anything on the Coastal!!! (i defo can't post some of my vids on the forum; due to my constant use of expletives)
The icing on the cake.
Arrived home on the 4th Oct; woke up with COVID on the 5th!
Buen Camino
Woody
PS Robo what make is the short version of your umbrella?

Sorry, I missed your PS till I was rereading this thread..
I use the short Euroschirm.