Pilgrims Behaving Badly - Is the Camino Frances full?

[peterhore]

How very, very saddening - from today's (21 Aug) The Times of London:​

Pilgrims behaving badly set Spanish hillside ablaze and steal lettuce​

The Camino de Santiago holy route to Compostela has been desecrated by mass tourism, say locals, with one traveller arrested for starting a wildfire

new
David Sharrock
, Madrid
Wednesday August 21 2024, 1.00pm, The Times
Religion
Spain
Crime

Visitors treat the pilgrimage like “Ibiza or Marbella”, say residents of villages along the route
ALAMY


Pope Benedict XVI once described the ancient pilgrimage route of the Camino de Santiago as a spiritual embodiment of the old continent’s rich culture, art and hospitality.
In recent years, however, residents living along the path have bemoaned its descent into a playground for unholy tourists — culminating this week in one hapless visitor being arrested for setting the hillside ablaze.
“For a few years now there has been an increasingly massive pilgrimage arriving, who believe that this is Ibiza or Marbella,” said Arantxa Madrazo, who lives in Vilaboa, a town on the Camino.

The network of pilgrimages attracted more than 440,000 walkers in 2023, up from an estimated 54,000 in 2020
ALAMY
Her complaints come as one Camino de Santiago pilgrim was taken into police custody on Tuesday for starting one of the summer’s largest wildfires in northern Spain.
It is not known which country the 33-year-old suspect comes from but it has been confirmed he is not Spanish. He was arrested in Foncebadon, in the province of Leon, about 12 miles from the seat of the blaze, after it reduced 800 hectares of forest and grass to ashes and confined dozens of residents to their homes.

“Once the fire started, he continued his walk,” according to the Civil Guard, which was able to catch up with the alleged perpetrator “thanks to citizen collaboration”.​

The fire is the latest example of pilgrims behaving badly on their journey towards Santiago de Compostela, a phenomenon that is on the rise. One resident said: “They consider themselves the masters of everything they see. Here in Bertola we all cultivate [crops], and it is common to go to bed with lettuce ready to pick and not find it the next day.”

The Camino leads to a shrine of the apostle James in the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Galicia
ALAMY
Locals complain that pilgrims use their gardens as toilets. “When we ask them to find another place, they get in our faces. They always tell us the same thing, ‘I am a pilgrim and I can do it,’” she told the Diario de Pontevedra newspaper.
The network of pilgrimages leading to a shrine of the apostle James in the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Galicia attracted more than 440,000 people in 2023, up from an estimated 54,000 in 2020.
“Since the Covid lockdown this has become massive. They gave it too much hype and at all times from Easter onwards it’s crazy,” said Víctor Barral, a resident of Ponte Sampaio.

​

Madrazo said she has modified her behaviour from “opening the door and leaving bottles of water for people to cool off as they pass by the house” to investing thousands of euros in fencing off her property. She said “for years we have been bunkering down to avoid all contact” with many of the large groups that pass by.

Visitors treat the Camino as a holiday rather than a pilgrimage, locals say
ALAMY
Earlier this month she filed a complaint to police after a family barbecue was interrupted by a group she estimated to be in their thirties. “One dared to enter the estate and jump naked into the swimming pool while being filmed,” she said.
A common observation is the changing profile of pilgrims, from those driven by spiritual motives to those simply treating the Camino as a holiday.
Overtourism has led to a “change of meaning” for the Camino that attracts new profiles of pilgrims, according to José de la Riera, of the International Fraternity of the Camino de Santiago.
“What used to be an intimate thing has been transformed,” he said. “The arrival of leisure culture has burst the Camino.”

 

[henrythedog]

There’s no denying that there is a general trend towards tourism - that was catagorically my motivation when I set off on my first Camino, although in ways I cannot easily define it’s not how I ended it.

The examples cited are utterly deplorable but do - I believe - represent a tiny minority who would probably exhibit similar behaviour in any other context.

 

[Anhalter]

Interestingly those reports of misbehaving pilgrims almost always come from places less than 100km away from Santiago. I wonder if there is a causality to this correlation.

(and i am aware that the fire started by a pilgrim is the exception to this rule...)

 

[antepacem]

Nerd Alert: Lots of early church fathers (Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianus, Basil of Caesarea, John Chrysostom, etc.) criticized early Christian pilgrims for wanton behaviour, gluttony, drunkenness, and failure to appreciate the true purpose of their journey. In the 4th century, when Christianity caught the pilgrim bug from their ancient Mediterranean compatriots, the hordes of pilgrims exploding on to the sacred sites of Jerusalem in particular made the more pious, church-bound leaders nervous - nervous enough to write long letters and treatises against pilgrimage full stop. Their critiques sound a lot like ours.

This is all to say - the uptick and downturn connected with pilgrimage always brings this sort of thing with it, and likely always will. We seem to be living in a pilgrim age - which is both glorious and problematic, for all the reasons you list here. But I don't think despair is in order. It's all part of the package. Hell is other people, after all, especially in groups.

 

[Jagdev D.]

There’s no denying that there is a general trend towards tourism - that was catagorically my motivation when I set off on my first Camino, although in ways I cannot easily define it’s not how I ended it.

The examples cited are utterly deplorable but do - I believe - represent a tiny minority who would probably exhibit similar behaviour in any other context.

Every crowd have its jack asses,
Out of about half a million pilgrims now ,what % of them behave idiotic.
1/10 of one %, maybe,..
but they make the head lines for bad publicity.
All those locals who whine about all pilgrims, should also be grateful vast majority are just that Pilgrims, who spend enormous amount to keep that part of economy going.
It cut both ways.
There is no garden of Eden anywhere , we don’t live in a perfect world.

Walking the camino in 2022 was my one of the most cherish memory.
Wish I could change the behaviour of those jerks on the camino.
I can only play my part.
Try to control things that I have control over.

Wishing all the `Pilgrims` Buen Camino.
Cheers to all !

 

[JustOneGuy]

Frankly, this is not for me. I'm sorry, but I don't think I will do it in the future. At least not the popular ones and/or not in the middle of summer. I am not a believer but I do not like this kind of mass behavior.

 

[Tincatinker]

@Jagdev D. I agree with much of your post but this:
“All those locals who whine about all pilgrims, should also be grateful vast majority are just that Pilgrims, who spend enormous amount to keep that part of economy going.”

This may be one of the all-time great myths of Camino. It’s true that some family run and owned businesses along the Camino Frances benefit from the pilgrim traffic - at least in the busy seasons. The rest of the concurrent population see little benefit, sometimes aggravations and in particular see their taxes spent on promoting the Camino and expanding “pilgrim” infrastructure when they would rather they were spent on fripperies like schools and hospitals.

On the “quieter” Camino pilgrims may still be seen as a little bit of a bonus to the local economy just like any other passer by with some €’s in their pockets and a willingness to part with them. Elsewhere I suspect that to anyone not directly employed in the pilgrim industry we are just a pain in the proverbial

 

[Bradypus]

All those locals who whine about all pilgrims, should also be grateful vast majority are just that Pilgrims, who spend enormous amount to keep that part of economy going.

I think that we often overestimate the value of pilgrims to the local economy. Certainly the villages and towns directly on the main routes have seen benefits and places like Foncebadon or O Cebreiro have been completely transformed. But those benefits have mostly gone to those who provide services such as luggage transport, food and accommodation. I'm not convinced that any prosperity has spread far from the routes themselves. Why should someone who has not directly benefitted from the growth in numbers welcome a procession of 1,000 or more through their village every day in peak seasons?

 

[jonesy75]

My husband and I arrived in Santiago de Compostela yesterday after walking from SJPP. From Sarria on, the numbers definitely exploded. Despite that big increase, we saw absolutely no bad behaviour. The mood was calm and kind and though we didn’t enjoy the sudden numbers after a pretty peaceful walk up to Sarria, I was pleasantly surprised by how well people behaved. There was very little trash along the trail which was also a pleasant surprise

Just our experience!

 

[JustOneGuy]

I think that we often overestimate the value of pilgrims to the local economy. Certainly the villages and towns directly on the main routes have seen benefits and places like Foncebadon or O Cebreiro have been completely transformed. But those benefits have mostly gone to those who provide services such as luggage transport, food and accommodation. I'm not convinced that any prosperity has spread far from the routes themselves. Why should someone who has not directly benefitted from the growth in numbers welcome a procession of 1,000 or more through their village every day in peak seasons?

The problem with tourism - call it Camino or just Holiday - is always the same: it usually offers low-skilled jobs. This does not have a direct effect on those who are qualified, but it often leads the government to rely on this kind of revenue rather than in investments in technological and productive sectors.

I have seen this happening in Italy, and even more so here in the Canary Islands.

What's more, tourism leads to an exponential increase in the cost of buying and renting houses, as much of the offer is directed toward B&Bs and AirB&Bs.

I cannot say this has happened in Galicia, Asturias and Cantabria. Correlation does not imply causation, I know, but certainly the cost of houses in that area is very high compared to average wages.

 

[MTtoCamino]

This is such a sad message. I can only pray that the no respect visitors will become bored with walking, or find the error of their ways. Living in a fire prone place the effect of having to stay indoors to avoid the smoke is not fun. Not to mention the fear of losing a home.

 

[Jagdev D.]

@Jagdev D. I agree with much of your post but this:
“All those locals who whine about all pilgrims, should also be grateful vast majority are just that Pilgrims, who spend enormous amount to keep that part of economy going.”

This may be one of the all-time great myths of Camino. It’s true that some family run and owned businesses along the Camino Frances benefit from the pilgrim traffic - at least in the busy seasons. The rest of the concurrent population see little benefit, sometimes aggravations and in particular see their taxes spent on promoting the Camino and expanding “pilgrim” infrastructure when they would rather they were spent on fripperies like schools and hospitals.

On the “quieter” Camino pilgrims may still be seen as a little bit of a bonus to the local economy just like any other passer by with some €’s in their pockets and a willingness to part with them. Elsewhere I suspect that to anyone not directly employed in the pilgrim industry we are just a pain in the proverbial

Ok,
I was referring to only the business close/near the camino walk ( CF) where I did my walk.
Did not meet anybody local who was not happy for me being there,
yes,
Some were overwhelmed by the large crowds.
I had no problems spending and those proprietors had no problems receiving it.

Every one is entitled to their opinion, as long as they don`t force you to see every thing their ways.

I heard more Spaniards complaining around Torremolinos , Malaga
( Costa del Sol) where I go in winters about ` too many tourists` !!
Causing Water shortage etc.. !!!!
Oh well !

My two cents!

 

[Antonius Vaessen]

I agree with Bradypus. I too think that the positive economic effect of thousands of pilgrims is overestimated. The passing of hundreds of persons everyday through your village, or in front of your house surely can be a nuisance, even if the vast majority of the passersby are wellbehaving

 

[Harland2019]

In the UK you would probably get the same response from the local communities or perhaps even worse apart from stealing lettuce! We also have people using disposal barbeques that they leave behind that set our peatlands alight. Our seaside towns and those in scenic areas e.g. the Lake District are inundated, especially in the summer months, with holidaymakers not partaking in a religious experience unless you class drinking alcohol as a religion - although some do! It is part of having a relatively free society. My experience of walking the Frances is that in the large towns/cities, it probably makes no difference and for the smaller villages the income and the jobs must make a significant (positive?) difference. In these areas, there seems to be a shortage of jobs for the younger generation who, having chatted with some locals, disappear to the coast to service the tourists there. Farming, which used to employ many local workers, no longer requires many staff following mechanisation and when required they employ cheap labour from elsewhere.

 

[Kathor1]

The Times article is a write-up in English of recent reports in the Spanish news media about the fire near Astorga and a flurry of articles in the Diario de Pontevedra about complaints from inhabitants in Vilaboa in particular. The Times article refers to abysmal Camino pilgrim behaviour in Vilaboa, Ponte Sambaio, and Bertola. None of these towns are on the Camino Francés. I therefore don't quite understand why the thread title asks whether the Camino Francés is full.

Also, I see no parallels between now and the Middle Ages. The inhabitants in these towns quoted in the news article do not complain about gluttony, drunkenness, and failure to appreciate the true purpose of a pilgrimage journey, as the early Church Fathers did, they complain about stealing of their property, invasion of their property and of their private space, using their gardens as toilets and, in one case, gate-crashing a private barbecue party and jumping naked into the owner's swimming pool. They criticise in particular an attitude that shows that Camino pilgrims feel entitled to such behaviour. That's a far cry from medieval piety.

Search www.diariodepontevedra.es for the word peregrinos to see the original news articles. You will also find an article about 20 Camino pilgrims visiting an old people's home in Pontevedra, about the best backpack to do the Camino de Santiago from Pontevedra, and similar articles that promote Camino walking and put it in a positive light.

 

[Dani7]

There are bad actors in all forms of travel. It makes me sad when I see people disrespect the outdoors and people’s properties. Here in this forum we get it. All we can do when we are on the path and visitors in other countries is to set an example of kindness and respect. I hope this person who set the fire pays a heavy price for his actions and that this is reported heavily in hopes of discouraging this kind of behavior.

 

[ShoshTrvls]

Frankly, this is not for me. I'm sorry, but I don't think I will do it in the future. At least not the popular ones and/or not in the middle of summer. I am not a believer but I do not like this kind of mass behavior.

I doubt anyone on the forum does but I have yet to see anything like that being described in the articles during the two 100KM walks I've done in August. I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure that it doesn't happen very often.

 

[Kathor1]

a flurry of articles in the Diario de Pontevedra about complaints from inhabitants in Vilaboa in particular

Here are links to two of the articles from which the Times correspondent quotes. These articles in the regional Galician press let you better understand where the issue lies: often with groups, and in particular with groups of a certain age group. The ones who can climb a wall that is 1.5 metre high and then jump from it into your property. More interesting, the inhabitant has not only filed a complaint with the police and written to the Xacobeo agency and to the Tourism agency, she has also made suggestions about how to improve the situation.

La vecina que quiere atajar el peregrinaje incívico en Vilaboa pide carteles y más voluntarios

La mujer, que tuvo que denunciar a un peregrino por bañarse desnudo en su piscina, se dirigió a la Oficina de Xestión del Xacobeo para alertar del comportamiento que muestran algunos grupos de caminantes. Aporta vídeos en los que se cuentan por decenas los envoltorios y restos que dejan los...

www.diariodepontevedra.es

Harta de los peregrinos incívicos en Vilaboa: "Uno se bañó desnudo en mi piscina"

Una familia acumula denuncias por conflictos con los caminantes xacobeos. "Hace años que nos estamos bunkerizando para evitarles". Denuncian ruido, que hacen sus necesidades en las fincas y cultivos y que sustraen verduras de las huertas, a las que entran sin permiso

www.diariodepontevedra.es

 

[JustOneGuy]

I doubt anyone on the forum does but I have yet to see anything like that being described in the articles during the two 100KM walks I've done in August. I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure that it doesn't happen very often.

Just to clarify:

Certainly, it is a small minority. Here one thing that I find frankly unacceptable for example is people doing their own needs and leaving dirty paper towels, very visible because white (at the origin... actually), at the edge of the trails, in the middle of nature...

But what I was mainly referring to is the numbers of people who walk certain trails. For my personal way of seeing things I avoid crowded places. 440,000 people is way too much for such narrow paths.

As a kid I used to vacation with my parents at a nice "Rifugio" in the Dolomites. Now I wouldn't set foot there.

 

[debra]

I think that we often overestimate the value of pilgrims to the local economy. Certainly the villages and towns directly on the main routes have seen benefits and places like Foncebadon or O Cebreiro have been completely transformed. But those benefits have mostly gone to those who provide services such as luggage transport, food and accommodation. I'm not convinced that any prosperity has spread far from the routes themselves. Why should someone who has not directly benefitted from the growth in numbers welcome a procession of 1,000 or more through their village every day in peak seasons?

I have a large problem believing that gains are well shared or all that large to begin with.

As we walk such a narrow path, I doubt that businesses as few as two blocks from the route see any uptick in business. Also the guides point to official stop point giving more places the problems with low benefits.

I remember walking off route to a Templar church that had signs posted on the main route and that I was person two of the day even though over a 100 pilgrims had walked past the turn off that morning all ready. Bus tours were what keep open that church as it has a small charge.

Also as someone else stated most of the jobs from the pilgrims are very low wage so those people are then unable to invest in there communities.

 

[bullingtonce]

How very, very saddening - from today's (21 Aug) The Times of London:​

Pilgrims behaving badly set Spanish hillside ablaze and steal lettuce​

The Camino de Santiago holy route to Compostela has been desecrated by mass tourism, say locals, with one traveller arrested for starting a wildfire

new
David Sharrock
, Madrid
Wednesday August 21 2024, 1.00pm, The Times
Religion
Spain
Crime

Visitors treat the pilgrimage like “Ibiza or Marbella”, say residents of villages along the route
ALAMY


Pope Benedict XVI once described the ancient pilgrimage route of the Camino de Santiago as a spiritual embodiment of the old continent’s rich culture, art and hospitality.
In recent years, however, residents living along the path have bemoaned its descent into a playground for unholy tourists — culminating this week in one hapless visitor being arrested for setting the hillside ablaze.
“For a few years now there has been an increasingly massive pilgrimage arriving, who believe that this is Ibiza or Marbella,” said Arantxa Madrazo, who lives in Vilaboa, a town on the Camino.

The network of pilgrimages attracted more than 440,000 walkers in 2023, up from an estimated 54,000 in 2020
ALAMY
Her complaints come as one Camino de Santiago pilgrim was taken into police custody on Tuesday for starting one of the summer’s largest wildfires in northern Spain.
It is not known which country the 33-year-old suspect comes from but it has been confirmed he is not Spanish. He was arrested in Foncebadon, in the province of Leon, about 12 miles from the seat of the blaze, after it reduced 800 hectares of forest and grass to ashes and confined dozens of residents to their homes.

“Once the fire started, he continued his walk,” according to the Civil Guard, which was able to catch up with the alleged perpetrator “thanks to citizen collaboration”.​

The fire is the latest example of pilgrims behaving badly on their journey towards Santiago de Compostela, a phenomenon that is on the rise. One resident said: “They consider themselves the masters of everything they see. Here in Bertola we all cultivate [crops], and it is common to go to bed with lettuce ready to pick and not find it the next day.”

The Camino leads to a shrine of the apostle James in the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Galicia
ALAMY
Locals complain that pilgrims use their gardens as toilets. “When we ask them to find another place, they get in our faces. They always tell us the same thing, ‘I am a pilgrim and I can do it,’” she told the Diario de Pontevedra newspaper.
The network of pilgrimages leading to a shrine of the apostle James in the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Galicia attracted more than 440,000 people in 2023, up from an estimated 54,000 in 2020.
“Since the Covid lockdown this has become massive. They gave it too much hype and at all times from Easter onwards it’s crazy,” said Víctor Barral, a resident of Ponte Sampaio.

​

Madrazo said she has modified her behaviour from “opening the door and leaving bottles of water for people to cool off as they pass by the house” to investing thousands of euros in fencing off her property. She said “for years we have been bunkering down to avoid all contact” with many of the large groups that pass by.

Visitors treat the Camino as a holiday rather than a pilgrimage, locals say
ALAMY
Earlier this month she filed a complaint to police after a family barbecue was interrupted by a group she estimated to be in their thirties. “One dared to enter the estate and jump naked into the swimming pool while being filmed,” she said.
A common observation is the changing profile of pilgrims, from those driven by spiritual motives to those simply treating the Camino as a holiday.
Overtourism has led to a “change of meaning” for the Camino that attracts new profiles of pilgrims, according to José de la Riera, of the International Fraternity of the Camino de Santiago.
“What used to be an intimate thing has been transformed,” he said. “The arrival of leisure culture has burst the Camino.”

No news here. Pilgrims are humans; this says everything. Camino's spiritual nature does not override human nature--never has, never will. And we have people here in California who intentionally set fires, even with its inherent dangers. A surprise this is not. If it were otherwise, then I would be shocked and surprised. Chuck

 

[davejsy]

Unfortunately, the Camino is experiencing the same problems as the wider world. It is very much the minority who benefit from mass tourism whilst the rest are often much worse off than before. It's not sustainable, but I'm not sure what the solution is (apart from a drastic world population decrease which of course is very unpopular).

 

[falcon269]

Unfortunately, the Camino is experiencing the same problems as the wider world. It is very much the minority who benefit from mass tourism whilst the rest are often much worse off than before. It's not sustainable, but I'm not sure what the solution is (apart from a drastic world population decrease which of course is very unpopular).

Any data to support that opinion? I have always found the camino far different from the wider world.

 

[davejsy]

Any data to support that opinion? I have always found the camino far different from the wider world.

Only data from other reports highlighting the impact mass tourism is having on local communities - perhaps someone has done an official study but I have no idea. I would think it difficult to argue that the increase in numbers has not correlated with the increase in anti-social behavior that is well documented.

 

[David Tallan]

@Jagdev D. I agree with much of your post but this:
“All those locals who whine about all pilgrims, should also be grateful vast majority are just that Pilgrims, who spend enormous amount to keep that part of economy going.”

This may be one of the all-time great myths of Camino. It’s true that some family run and owned businesses along the Camino Frances benefit from the pilgrim traffic - at least in the busy seasons. The rest of the concurrent population see little benefit, sometimes aggravations and in particular see their taxes spent on promoting the Camino and expanding “pilgrim” infrastructure when they would rather they were spent on fripperies like schools and hospitals.

On the “quieter” Camino pilgrims may still be seen as a little bit of a bonus to the local economy just like any other passer by with some €’s in their pockets and a willingness to part with them. Elsewhere I suspect that to anyone not directly employed in the pilgrim industry we are just a pain in the proverbial

What you say makes complete sense. But I also remember a conversation in a small bar in Madrid after our 2016 Camino with a fellow at another table who grew up in a small village on the Frances. When he grew up there, there were just houses in the village. They had to drive elsewhere if they wanted to buy anything (or wait for the vans to come by). In 2016, there were two albergues, two bar/restaurants, and a tienda. The albergues may be of no use to anyone in the village but the albergue owners. But he seemed to think there was some local value in the bars and tienda.

 

[Tincatinker]

The Crab-Shack comes to mind. Old Billy and his wife figured that their cottage, with its bit of green out front, was located just where som of the car-trade cruising the north Norfolk coast might just be tempted to stop for a bit of lunch. Instead of selling the crab Billy caught to the wholesaler they’d sell’em themselves and pocket the extra pennies. A bit of home baked bread, a lettuce and some radish out of the garden. New potatoes when there was some. A bit of pickled samphire. The old net drying shed didn’t need much fussing up and a few tables and chairs and some oil-cloth got it sorted. They did crab sandwiches too, for those to delicate to take an hammer to the claws. They did ok. When Old Billy went to join The Fisherman his sons took over. One caught the crab, the other cooked them. An assortment of wives and sweethearts waited table and ran the show. They’d always offered a pot of tea but they got a “license” sometime in the ‘80’s and added a cousin’s cider to their offerings. Later still someone in the family started making scones and batch cakes and that got added in. There came times when they’d sell out of crab and even everything else some days. They weren’t that bothered. That just meant they got to close up a bit earlier. They’d put a bit of a wall up to keep the weather out of the net shed, they’d put in an ice cream counter for the “kiddies”, they’d even stretched the shed a bit to get a few more tables in.

It’s still there now, the Crab Shack. In fact there’s about a dozen of them up and down the coast. Quaint old furniture, serving girls in aprons, Crab and shrimp and smoked salmon and chicken nuggets and ham-egg-and-chips and Norfolk Pasties on the menu and a wine list and cocktails and mocktails and a website where you can book your table and on a quiet night (not many of them) sometimes, beyond the whir of the freezers and the roar of the delivery trucks from Brakes Foodservice you can hear Old Billy laughing like a train

 

[Saint Mike II]

This is not a new event. Back in 2017 I published an article and pictures of thoughtless pilgrims creating a track through a farmer wheat/rice field (on the way into Burgos near the barracks where to river turn-off is). So I am not surprised at this terrible event.
So pilgrims how about acknowledging that we are all guests in Spain and treat their country as a treasure to have and hold and pass on.

 

[Kathor1]

One grievance that is not reproduced in the Times article but can be found in the original Spanish article:

Arantxa explains that she even had to buy a new gate for her house. ‘We put in a bigger one so that they wouldn't open it. Because they would stick their hand in, open it and then appear in the kitchen, asking us for water’.​

​

This is a complaint that has also been made by the hotel owner in Akerreta: That pilgrims appear on the hotel's premises and expect to be able to buy soft drinks, fill up their water bottles and use the hotel's toilets although the hotel is only open for guests and serves only guests.

This is not bad tourist behaviour; this is bad Camino pilgrim behaviour because those pilgrims expect that every local person is at their beck and call and not only those in the Camino pilgrim hospitality sector (whether commercial or volunteer based). As one of the people in the Pontevedra area puts it: "They always tell us the same thing: I am a pilgrim and I can do this."

 

[oursonpolaire]

There are studies of the impact of the Camino on local economies-- before the pandemic, I recall being part of a discussion on an article in a Leon newspaper discussing one of them. The Galician Xunta and that of Castile & Leon have commissioned studies, and we have a whole batch of theses and academic articles.

My own anecdotal study was in Burgo Raneros where, between when I first walked the Camino 20 years ago and when I walked through before the pandemic-- one albergue had been joined by another one, and one hostal by a second and a bar by another restaurant. In a pueblo of 800 inhabitants, this likely created a minimum of a dozen jobs directly and a few others in support. The tienda had been replaced by a supermercado. On my most recent visit, the innkeeper told me that with the new jobs, younger people were able to stay in the village rather than move. In larger villages the number of children had increased and schools remained open. Observant pilgrims will likely note that in many places, Latin American and Romanian immigrants had arrived to staff facilities, and had established themselves there.

For those of us who know the off-piste caminos through barren villages in Aragon, Catalonia, and Old Castile, the comparison is remarkable. The Francese now has vigorous villages, while those of the Moncayo etc remain dusty and depopulated. Rural Spain, the demographers tell us, is in crisis.

In my dozen caminos over the past quarter century, I've noticed the increased numbers along the last 100km-- I was likely lucky on my days-- toilet facilities continue to be the same source of abominable behaviour as they've always been; barkeepers seemed overwhelmed by the numbers calling for cafe con leche, but our Spanish hosts seem somehow to continue being good-humoured by it all. Talking with foreign pilgrims, I found a distinction between members of local associations, especially those who had undergone training and Q&A sessions, and those who had not. The last 100 featured many pilgrims who looked upon it as a not-overly-strenuous bucket list tickoff (among the North Americans I number my fellow Canadians) and were often seemingly unaware that they were in another country, but among them were those who would be coming back for a more serious experience.

I wish that there was a way where expectations of behaviour could be clearer......

 

[Caomhin O Fearghaill]

Every year I hear about this kind of behaviour.
It seems that for some the Camino is no longer a respected sacred pilgrimage..... just a long walk. It is always the few that ruins things for us all.

 

[Juspassinthru]

Don’t discount the economic impact of the Camino, it’s significant. Here’s an article from 2018 https://projects2014-2020.interrege.../economic-impact-of-pilgrims-on-st-james-way/ Bloomberg did a quite good analysis in 2022 as well.

With that said, we are guests as we walk the Camino (or visit any place), being rude, insensitive or criminal (setting a fire) is unimaginable to me. Here in Texas we say, “make your mama proud “. Dated but still a worthy goal.

Tread lightly my friends.

 

[Camo]

When Old Billy went to join The Fisherman his sons took over.

Did he pay The Ferryman on his way?

 

[Camo]

"They always tell us the same thing: I am a pilgrim and I can do this."

So that leads to the question of from where they derived this "Camino provides" dogma and exactly what "entitlements" the term infers to each individual.

 

[trecile]

This is a complaint that has also been made by the hotel owner in Akerreta: That pilgrims appear on the hotel's premises and expect to be able to buy soft drinks, fill up their water bottles and use the hotel's toilets although the hotel is only open for guests and serves only guests.

And then the pilgrims had the nerve to write bad reviews for the hotel!

 

[Kathor1]

Here is another complaint that the Times article did not pick up:

[The person living on the Camino in the Pontevedra region] points out that fighting against noise from pilgrims or pilgrim groups is another lost war; these pilgrims or groups are not prevented from walking accompanied by music making or music from small loudspeakers at high volume; they are so disconnected from their environment that they don't even appear to realise that they are passing between houses [with people living in them who need their rest and their sleep] at six or seven o'clock in the morning. ​

​

The list of complaints from this local person living on the Camino even includes damage to the wall of the farm opposite: Pilgrims jump over to get oranges, lemons, to do their business, or to sit down to eat. The farm, she says, has to be cleared of plastics and debris on a daily basis.​

She puts forward possible solutions such as:

​

the presence of more informative signs, because she believes that ‘maybe they don't go into the farms to relieve themselves if they know that 500 metres away there are establishments where they can do so’, and even a sign warning that these illicit or vandalistic actions such as taking vegetables and fruits from farms, can be recorded, so that users of the path know that they can be ‘caught’.​

​

And:

Similarly, she asks that, if there are volunteers who inform users about the Camino, they should be more present in this section of Santa Marta de Bértola, given the need to eradicate the bad habits of some groups.​

​

She obviously has faith in the power of information, of education, and of the cooperation from other pilgrims and their active engagement for a better Camino environment.

​

Noise from large groups of pilgrims, often on the younger side of the Camino pilgrim age spectrum, is also a frequent complaint from those who live in the San Pedro suburb of Santiago because these groups play instruments such as guitars and drums and chant continuously and noisily when entering Santiago.

 

[Harland2019]

It seems that for some the Camino is no longer a respected sacred pilgrimage..... just a long walk. It is always the few that ruins things for us all.

Not being a believer, the Camino is a long walk for me to enjoy the countryside and the companionship of others of many nationalities and religions or none, but that doesn't stop me respecting the local population and their property. I have walked many other long-distance paths but the Camino is "special" meeting many others (rather than one or two) on a multi-day walk.

 

[Dan]

The Times article is a write-up in English of recent reports in the Spanish news media about the fire near Astorga and a flurry of articles in the Diario de Pontevedra about complaints from inhabitants in Vilaboa in particular. The Times article refers to abysmal Camino pilgrim behaviour in Vilaboa, Ponte Sambaio, and Bertola. None of these towns are on the Camino Francés. I therefore don't quite understand why the thread title asks whether the Camino Francés is full.

Also, I see no parallels between now and the Middle Ages. The inhabitants in these towns quoted in the news article do not complain about gluttony, drunkenness, and failure to appreciate the true purpose of a pilgrimage journey, as the early Church Fathers did, they complain about stealing of their property, invasion of their property and of their private space, using their gardens as toilets and, in one case, gate-crashing a private barbecue party and jumping naked into the owner's swimming pool. They criticise in particular an attitude that shows that Camino pilgrims feel entitled to such behaviour. That's a far cry from medieval piety.

Search www.diariodepontevedra.es for the word peregrinos to see the original news articles. You will also find an article about 20 Camino pilgrims visiting an old people's home in Pontevedra, about the best backpack to do the Camino de Santiago from Pontevedra, and similar articles that promote Camino walking and put it in a positive light.

Great to read some facts on the topic. Thanks for bringing them to light. Assertions are the curse of our age. They are easy to fling about. Getting at the facts requires a bit of work. Pity.

 

[Dan]

The Crab-Shack comes to mind. Old Billy and his wife figured that their cottage, with its bit of green out front, was located just where som of the car-trade cruising the north Norfolk coast might just be tempted to stop for a bit of lunch. Instead of selling the crab Billy caught to the wholesaler they’d sell’em themselves and pocket the extra pennies. A bit of home baked bread, a lettuce and some radish out of the garden. New potatoes when there was some. A bit of pickled samphire. The old net drying shed didn’t need much fussing up and a few tables and chairs and some oil-cloth got it sorted. They did crab sandwiches too, for those to delicate to take an hammer to the claws. They did ok. When Old Billy went to join The Fisherman his sons took over. One caught the crab, the other cooked them. An assortment of wives and sweethearts waited table and ran the show. They’d always offered a pot of tea but they got a “license” sometime in the ‘80’s and added a cousin’s cider to their offerings. Later still someone in the family started making scones and batch cakes and that got added in. There came times when they’d sell out of crab and even everything else some days. They weren’t that bothered. That just meant they got to close up a bit earlier. They’d put a bit of a wall up to keep the weather out of the net shed, they’d put in an ice cream counter for the “kiddies”, they’d even stretched the shed a bit to get a few more tables in.

It’s still there now, the Crab Shack. In fact there’s about a dozen of them up and down the coast. Quaint old furniture, serving girls in aprons, Crab and shrimp and smoked salmon and chicken nuggets and ham-egg-and-chips and Norfolk Pasties on the menu and a wine list and cocktails and mocktails and a website where you can book your table and on a quiet night (not many of them) sometimes, beyond the whir of the freezers and the roar of the delivery trucks from Brakes Foodservice you can hear Old Billy laughing like a train

That story says it all. Your reference to Panganus led me to the play. look forward to meeting on the track one day.

 

[MarianneF]

How very, very saddening - from today's (21 Aug) The Times of London:​

Pilgrims behaving badly set Spanish hillside ablaze and steal lettuce​

The Camino de Santiago holy route to Compostela has been desecrated by mass tourism, say locals, with one traveller arrested for starting a wildfire

new
David Sharrock
, Madrid
Wednesday August 21 2024, 1.00pm, The Times
Religion
Spain
Crime

Visitors treat the pilgrimage like “Ibiza or Marbella”, say residents of villages along the route
ALAMY


Pope Benedict XVI once described the ancient pilgrimage route of the Camino de Santiago as a spiritual embodiment of the old continent’s rich culture, art and hospitality.
In recent years, however, residents living along the path have bemoaned its descent into a playground for unholy tourists — culminating this week in one hapless visitor being arrested for setting the hillside ablaze.
“For a few years now there has been an increasingly massive pilgrimage arriving, who believe that this is Ibiza or Marbella,” said Arantxa Madrazo, who lives in Vilaboa, a town on the Camino.

The network of pilgrimages attracted more than 440,000 walkers in 2023, up from an estimated 54,000 in 2020
ALAMY
Her complaints come as one Camino de Santiago pilgrim was taken into police custody on Tuesday for starting one of the summer’s largest wildfires in northern Spain.
It is not known which country the 33-year-old suspect comes from but it has been confirmed he is not Spanish. He was arrested in Foncebadon, in the province of Leon, about 12 miles from the seat of the blaze, after it reduced 800 hectares of forest and grass to ashes and confined dozens of residents to their homes.

“Once the fire started, he continued his walk,” according to the Civil Guard, which was able to catch up with the alleged perpetrator “thanks to citizen collaboration”.​

The fire is the latest example of pilgrims behaving badly on their journey towards Santiago de Compostela, a phenomenon that is on the rise. One resident said: “They consider themselves the masters of everything they see. Here in Bertola we all cultivate [crops], and it is common to go to bed with lettuce ready to pick and not find it the next day.”

The Camino leads to a shrine of the apostle James in the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Galicia
ALAMY
Locals complain that pilgrims use their gardens as toilets. “When we ask them to find another place, they get in our faces. They always tell us the same thing, ‘I am a pilgrim and I can do it,’” she told the Diario de Pontevedra newspaper.
The network of pilgrimages leading to a shrine of the apostle James in the cathedral of Santiago de Compostela in Galicia attracted more than 440,000 people in 2023, up from an estimated 54,000 in 2020.
“Since the Covid lockdown this has become massive. They gave it too much hype and at all times from Easter onwards it’s crazy,” said Víctor Barral, a resident of Ponte Sampaio.

​

Madrazo said she has modified her behaviour from “opening the door and leaving bottles of water for people to cool off as they pass by the house” to investing thousands of euros in fencing off her property. She said “for years we have been bunkering down to avoid all contact” with many of the large groups that pass by.

Visitors treat the Camino as a holiday rather than a pilgrimage, locals say
ALAMY
Earlier this month she filed a complaint to police after a family barbecue was interrupted by a group she estimated to be in their thirties. “One dared to enter the estate and jump naked into the swimming pool while being filmed,” she said.
A common observation is the changing profile of pilgrims, from those driven by spiritual motives to those simply treating the Camino as a holiday.
Overtourism has led to a “change of meaning” for the Camino that attracts new profiles of pilgrims, according to José de la Riera, of the International Fraternity of the Camino de Santiago.
“What used to be an intimate thing has been transformed,” he said. “The arrival of leisure culture has burst the Camino.”

More restrictive rules should be enforced on Pilgrims. For instance no more than 2 people in a group unless a family. Better control in Albergues with regard to people misbehaving. Large groups tend to be noisy and often 1 or 2 in a group being messy, loud and obnoxious. Control should already be enforced by the Confraternity of St James in each country. Just my thoughts. Don't crucify me.

 

[Robo]

Where there is cheap accommodation, food and alcohol, it will attract a certain crowd out for a good time.
Like the Spanish 'Costas' in the 80s.

Perhaps the Camino is becoming a victim of it's own success?
The word is out.

I do feel sorry for those living along the busy stages.

Hopefully the more remote routes will stay 'remote' and 'harder' to walk for a few more years to come.

 

[Bradypus]

Control should already be enforced by the Confraternity of St James in each country.

That's an interesting point of view. I'm struggling to see how it might work though. What authority and means do you think the various national Camino associations have to impose any form of control on pilgrims?

 

[Roland49]

How very, very saddening - from today's (21 Aug) The Times of London:​

Pilgrims behaving badly set Spanish hillside ablaze and steal lettuce​

The Caminos are a picture of society.

The lamenting about the misbehaviour of pilgrims is as old as the pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela is.
Nothing new about it. It's on us, the frequent or single event pilgrims, to make a good impression, try to change the people around us to be a better being by trying to set a good example.

 

[Kathor1]

That story says it all. Your reference to Panganus led me to the play. look forward to meeting on the track one day.

I guess that it is a typo and that I should not even mention it. But it made me smile and now I have this undeletable image in my mind of @Tincatinker being a fish and swimming around in the depth of the ocean near Santiago.

I guess that you meant paganus, a word mentioned in a different thread (or threads).

 

[Bradypus]

But it made me smile and now I have this undeletable image in my mind of @Tincatinker being a fish and swimming around in the depth of the ocean near Santiago.

I think @Tincatinker has already named himself after a fish - a greenish freshwater carp-like creature that prefers deep ponds and dark turbid waters. And if the waters are not murky enough they are very good at stirring them up and making things even less clear than they were before....

 

[GaTeach]

My husband and I arrived in Santiago de Compostela yesterday after walking from SJPP. From Sarria on, the numbers definitely exploded. Despite that big increase, we saw absolutely no bad behaviour. The mood was calm and kind and though we didn’t enjoy the sudden numbers after a pretty peaceful walk up to Sarria, I was pleasantly surprised by how well people behaved. There was very little trash along the trail which was also a pleasant surprise

Just our experience!

Isn't it wonderful how different the Camino is than what you would expect from reading the posts here and the fb groups?

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I am so pleased when people bring up these tired criticisms of the various Caminos. I am also overjoyed when yet another person says that they won't be doing a Camino because of overcrowding (or any reason, actually).

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

....

Written from a Camino nearby.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

My husband and I arrived in Santiago de Compostela yesterday after walking from SJPP. From Sarria on, the numbers definitely exploded. Despite that big increase, we saw absolutely no bad behaviour. The mood was calm and kind and though we didn’t enjoy the sudden numbers after a pretty peaceful walk up to Sarria, I was pleasantly surprised by how well people behaved. There was very little trash along the trail which was also a pleasant surprise

Just our experience!

That was my experience as well. Walking from SJPP this Spring. I didn’t see much spirituality, but I also didn’t see any bad behavior that I can recall.

Sometimes it was crowded before Sarria, though. And sometimes the camino workers seemed overwhelmed.

That said I probably wouldn’t be thrilled living right on the Camino….

 

[Camo]

they are very good at stirring them up and making things even less clear than they were

A satirical fish

 

[Dan]

I guess that it is a typo and that I should not even mention it. But it made me smile and now I have this undeletable image in my mind of @Tincatinker being a fish and swimming around in the depth of the ocean near Santiago.

I guess that you meant paganus, a word mentioned in a different thread (or threads).

View attachment 176742

What a hoot! you are spot on about the typo.

 

[Camo]

I probably wouldn’t be thrilled living right on the Camino

Unless I was operating a coffee stop

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Unless I was operating a coffee stop

I'm sure you're right, Captain obvious.

But I suspect most people who live on the along the Camino, have nothing to do with camino related businesses, and just like people that live in any kind of tourist area, kind of get sick of the crowding and busy-ness. I live in a very highly touristy town, and while I certainly have nothing against the tourists and welcome the money that comes into my community, I don't enjoy the crowding and extra noise.

Anyway, like I said, I didn't particularly notice any pilgrims being excessively obnoxious. A few noisy Spanish kids, blasting music, and aggressive Spanish-looking bicycle riders. But the foreign pilgrims, they were all just fine.

 

[Camo]

I live in a very highly touristy town, and while I certainly have nothing against the tourists and welcome the money that comes into my community, I don't enjoy the crowding and extra noise.

Yes likewise for me living in Cairns FNQ Australia (Great Barrier Reef) which is a lot quieter than back in the 80s when it was flavour of the month for American tourists based on Crocodile Dundee movie, but is still a tourist hub.

 

[David Tallan]

Every year I hear about this kind of behaviour.
It seems that for some the Camino is no longer a respected sacred pilgrimage..... just a long walk. It is always the few that ruins things for us all.

I think that whenever there have been more than a handful, it has been both. Certainly medieval accounts would lead us to believe so.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Every year I hear about this kind of behaviour.
It seems that for some the Camino is no longer a respected sacred pilgrimage..... just a long walk. It is always the few that ruins things for us all

I think for most people it is not a religious pilgrimage anymore. But I don't think they or I am ruining anyones pilgrimage.
I don’t believe the bad behavior is connected to being non-religious.

 

[Lynn R Kelly]

Ok,
I was referring to only the business close/near the camino walk ( CF) where I did my walk.
Did not meet anybody local who was not happy for me being there,
yes,
Some were overwhelmed by the large crowds.
I had no problems spending and those proprietors had no problems receiving it.

Every one is entitled to their opinion, as long as they don`t force you to see every thing their ways.

I heard more Spaniards complaining around Torremolinos , Malaga
( Costa del Sol) where I go in winters about ` too many tourists` !!
Causing Water shortage etc.. !!!!
Oh well !

My two cents!

It's not just the Camino that has been overwhelmed and over-loved. People in Barcelona/Lisbon and other major destination cities are complaining about the "overwhelming tourists". Since folks have been freed to travel after COVID, everybody wants to get away from where they were stuck for so long and cross things off their bucket list.

There are assholes everywhere and people behaving badly, but I believe it is nurture, not nature. The Portuguese have a saying for those who behave e badly "Mal educado" (badly educated). Those of us who love the spiritual practice of walking any camino, need to lead by example and discourage bad behavior--gently but firmly.