Artificial Intelligence

[JIMMCC13]

I've started to experiment with route planning using an AI app. This could be a game changer. Detailed stages using bespoke criteria within seconds

 

[Telelama]

And? What are the results? How does the suggested routes compare to established routes? How is this going to change the game? What Caminos have you had AI look at?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Are you happy with the accuracy, or will you not know until you actually walk?

 

[Bradypus]

That would certainly be a "game changer" for me. But not the way I'd choose to take. I usually set off with no definite plan for where I'm going to stop that night and then see what the day brings. I very much doubt that I'd want to have some algorithm make those decisions for me.

 

[JIMMCC13]

Are you happy with the accuracy, or will you not know until you actually walk?

It seems okay Molly. I was just playing really . I asked for a route from Belfast to Dover around 25k a day and stages ending at places where accommodation is available and it came up with a route within seconds. I though it was a bit circuitous so I asked it to amend and it did

 

[Grousedoctor]

I can’t imaging needing an AI app to help me plan or walk a Camino in France or Spain. Amazing how successful I was on my first CF just walking along with my Brierley at that time. Technology doesn’t always offer improvements! With a Camino, I’m still just going to follow the yellow arrows. Pretty simple.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

It seems okay Molly. I was just playing really . I asked for a route from Belfast to Dover around 25k a day and stages ending at places where accommodation is available and it came up with a route within seconds. I though it was a bit circuitous so I asked it to amend and it did

That is quite interesting. How many days from Belfast to Dover (presumably via ferry)?

 

[JIMMCC13]

That is quite interesting. How many days from Belfast to Dover (presumably via ferry)?

Yeah Ferry from Belfast to Scotland and then 36 to 37 days Molly.

 

[trecile]

Amazing how successful I was on my first CF just walking along with my Brierley at that time

I only had the fold out paper listing the towns and albergues from the pilgrim office in SJPdP on my first Camino in 2016. I made it from SJPdP to Fisterra in 35 days.

 

[JIMMCC13]

I can’t imaging needing an AI app to help me plan or walk a Camino in France or Spain. Amazing how successful I was on my first CF just walking along with my Brierley at that time. Technology doesn’t always offer improvements! With a Camino, I’m still just going to follow the yellow arrows. Pretty simple.

I was recently asked by a local charity group to suggest a route for a group with no experience of a Camino and very definite limits to both time and how far they could walk each day . It took me quite a bit of time to come up with a suitable plan. AI did it in seconds . Not everyone can just follow the arrows

 

[JustOneGuy]

I've started to experiment with route planning using an AI app. This could be a game changer. Detailed stages using bespoke criteria within seconds

it could be very interesting while planning for not very popular routes.

Obviously the idea breeds distrust: WHAT??? using AI for something I can easily do with what I have available???

But... what we have today is already very different from what we had even just 20 years ago. Or 50. Or 100 -- back, back and back to the Tabula Peutingeriana.

Yeah, it would be interesting to try to make a trip using just that. Or maybe imitate the ancient Romans, using this though: https://orbis.stanford.edu I considered that some time ago...

And BTW, if you want to go from Roma to Bracara Agusta (Braga, North of Portugal) you will need 77.5 days by foot.

And don't forget at least 63.09 kg of wheat for your jorney! While a donkey will be much appreciated!

Et habe bonum iter!

 

[David]

Well, if AI develops the same twisted sense of humour as my satnav it won't be for me ... takes me off a main road, down through a village, along a lane, another lane, and back to the same main road 100 metres further on

 

[markie6]

While I firmly believe some questions and answers of late have been made using ChatGPT I wouldn't think it could be too hard to come up with a route given certain parameters

Not sure how enjoyable it would be but then again many follow youtube influencers, guide book writers and others , so why not ?

in true AI fashion however, any game changer should be viewed with caution... since we were told a while ago. "the only way to win is not to play " ( Wargames 1983 ? )

 

[SabsP]

I was recently asked by a local charity group to suggest a route for a group with no experience of a Camino and very definite limits to both time and how far they could walk each day . It took me quite a bit of time to come up with a suitable plan. AI did it in seconds . Not everyone can just follow the arrows

Of course everyone can follow the arrows. Especially on the Camino Frances where arrows are abundant. Now, distances that people are able to walk that is another thing. But this is nothing AI can help with.

 

[Kathor1]

It seems okay Molly. I was just playing really. I asked for a route from Belfast to Dover around 25k a day and stages ending at places where accommodation is available and it came up with a route within seconds. I though it was a bit circuitous so I asked it to amend and it did

Ah, Belfast to Dover. That makes sense. Belfast to Dover is a no-Brierley-and-no-yellow-arrows territory and I can imagine that it is a helpful tool.

I spent a lot of time figuring out and planning the first part of my walk to Santiago through France, in particular north of Paris and between Paris and Orleans. I don’t camp and there is, or was at least at the time, no Camino-specific infrastructure and certainly not where I walked for several hundreds of kilometres.

Buen Camino to Santiago!

 

[TravellingMan22]

Really keen to learn more re AI as my knowledge is woeful, so please keep the updates coming.

I've started to experiment with route planning using an AI app. This could be a game changer. Detailed stages using bespoke criteria within second

 

[Kirkie]

Of course everyone can follow the arrows. Especially on the Camino Frances where arrows are abundant. Now, distances that people are able to walk that is another thing. But this is nothing AI can help with.

I was recently asked by a local charity group to suggest a route for a group with no experience of a Camino and very definite limits to both time and how far they could walk each day . It took me quite a bit of time to come up with a suitable plan. AI did it in seconds . Not everyone can just follow the arrows

If there is no real, human group close by, you do have other human options. The St James' Society in Uk. Phone calls are more or less free nowadays, depending on your phone package. Also, a trip to Dublin, Thursday, Friday or Saturday any time between 10.30 and 15.30 - and they will not throw you out!
I see two updates, so probably my proposals are dead in the water!

 

[JIMMCC13]

Really keen to learn more re AI as my knowledge is woeful, so please keep the updates coming.

I'm no expert . Can I suggest just down load an app and play with it

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I'm no expert . Can I suggest just down load an app and play with it

Having done a bit of searching, your route seems a bi long. My guess is the AI is fixated on the 25km distance each day so is sending you round the houses.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

This spring I was visiting my sister whose house is on a corner lot and I was preparing to take a random wandering walk through her neighborhood so I went into Google Maps and plugged in her address so no matter where I went I had directions back from my current location. I hadn't left yet. Google complied and drew me a map from her basement garage on the side of the house to the street, around the corner and uphill to the main driveway to stop at the front door just meters away from my location in her living room.

 

[gordon1]

Well, if AI develops the same twisted sense of humour as my satnav it won't be for me ... takes me off a main road, down through a village, along a lane, another lane, and back to the same main road 100 metres further on

You must have the latest upgrade.

 

[JIMMCC13]

Having done a bit of searching, your route seems a bi long. My guess is the AI is fixated on the 25km distance each day so is sending you round the houses.

Your probably right Molly. I work.on basis it easier to look at something ( and amend) ... than to look for something

 

[JabbaPapa]

Sounds like a great way to enstate stark normalisation as method means and purpose.

 

[Tincatinker]

Absence of Intelligence (AI) may have its uses: for instance frustrating a caller to a customer service line. It will not substitute for the human mind’s ability to construct a journey through a landscape. At best it will provide a series of stages. The more criteria you give the more convoluted the outcome. Belfast to Dover? Walk to Cork, Ferry to Caen, walk to Dieppe, ferry to Newhaven, turn right. Same question every time different answer every time.

“I think you said “I want to go on Pilgrimage”. “You don’t have time for that Dave.” “You need to feed me Data Dave.”

 

[Kirkie]

Absence of Intelligence (AI) may have its uses: for instance frustrating a caller to a customer service line. It will not substitute for the human mind’s ability to construct a journey through a landscape. At best it will provide a series of stages. The more criteria you give the more convoluted the outcome. Belfast to Dover? Walk to Cork, Ferry to Caen, walk to Dieppe, ferry to Newhaven, turn right. Same question every time different answer every time.

“I think you said “I want to go on Pilgrimage”. “You don’t have time for that Dave.” “You need to feed me Data Dave.”

Your humour is so spot on, by the way...AI... I have a wonderful cartoon but will not waste it here. Oops! Sorry. Partly.

 

[JIMMCC13]

Absence of Intelligence (AI) may have its uses: for instance frustrating a caller to a customer service line. It will not substitute for the human mind’s ability to construct a journey through a landscape. At best it will provide a series of stages. The more criteria you give the more convoluted the outcome. Belfast to Dover? Walk to Cork, Ferry to Caen, walk to Dieppe, ferry to Newhaven, turn right. Same question every time different answer every time.

“I think you said “I want to go on Pilgrimage”. “You don’t have time for that Dave.” “You need to feed

I asked your question and ....

Embarking on a pilgrimage is a profound journey that can offer spiritual, emotional, and even physical renewal. Here are some well-known pilgrimage destinations across various religious traditions:

### 1. **Camino de Santiago (Spain)**
- **Religion:** Christianity (primarily Catholicism)
- **Description:** The Way of St. James is one of the most famous pilgrimage routes in the world. It leads to the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela, where the remains of St. James the Apostle are believed to be buried. The journey can vary in length, with popular starting points in France and Spain.

### 2. **Hajj (Mecca, Saudi Arabia)**
- **Religion:** Islam
- **Description:** Hajj is one of the Five Pillars of Islam and a mandatory pilgrimage for Muslims, to be undertaken at least once in their lifetime if they are physically and financially able. The pilgrimage takes place annually during the Islamic month of Dhu al-Hijjah.

### 3. **Kumbh Mela (India)**
- **Religion:** Hinduism
- **Description:** Kumbh Mela is a mass Hindu pilgrimage of faith, where Hindus gather to bathe in a sacred river. The pilgrimage rotates between four locations: Allahabad, Haridwar, Nashik, and Ujjain, and it is held once every 12 years in each location.

### 4. **Lourdes (France)**
- **Religion:** Christianity (Catholicism)
- **Description:** Lourdes is a major Catholic pilgrimage site where the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared to a young girl, Bernadette Soubirous, in 1858. Pilgrims visit the Sanctuary of Our Lady of Lourdes and the Grotto where the apparitions are believed to have occurred.

### 5. **Bodh Gaya (India)**
- **Religion:** Buddhism
- **Description:** Bodh Gaya is the most important pilgrimage site for Buddhists. It is where Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, attained enlightenment under the Bodhi tree. The Mahabodhi Temple complex, which includes the descendant of the original Bodhi tree, is a UNESCO World Heritage site.

### 6. **Mount Kailash (Tibet)**
- **Religion:** Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Bon
- **Description:** Mount Kailash is considered sacred in four religions. Hindus believe it is the abode of Lord Shiva, Buddhists consider it a representation of the mythical Mount Meru, Jains believe it is the site where their first leader achieved liberation, and Bon followers regard it as the seat of all spiritual power.

### 7. **Vatican City (Italy)**
- **Religion:** Christianity (Catholicism)
- **Description:** The Vatican, home to the Pope, is a central pilgrimage site for Catholics. Pilgrims visit St. Peter's Basilica, the Vatican Museums, and other holy sites within the city-state.

### 8. **Shikoku Pilgrimage (Japan)**
- **Religion:** Buddhism
- **Description:** The Shikoku Pilgrimage is a multi-site pilgrimage that covers 88 temples associated with the Buddhist monk Kukai (Kobo Daishi) on the island of Shikoku. Pilgrims often walk the entire 1,200 km route, but it can also be done by bus or car.

### 9. **Jerusalem (Israel/Palestine)**
- **Religion:** Christianity, Judaism, Islam
- **Description:** Jerusalem is a holy city for Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Key pilgrimage sites include the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Western Wall, and the Al-Aqsa Mosque/Dome of the Rock.

### 10. **Amritsar (India)**
- **Religion:** Sikhism
- **Description:** The Harmandir Sahib (Golden Temple) in Amritsar is the most important pilgrimage site for Sikhs. Pilgrims come to worship, seek spiritual solace, and partake in the community meal (langar).

### Choosing the Right Pilgrimage for You:
Consider your spiritual or religious affiliation, physical capability, and the type of experience you're seeking. Pilgrimages can vary greatly in terms of difficulty, duration, and the nature of the journey, from deeply reflective solitary walks to vibrant communal gatherings.

Let me know if you'd like more detailed information on any of these or need help planning your journey.

 

[Tincatinker]

Thank you for proving my point. That wasn’t my question

 

[trecile]

Here's a thread from a member who asked Google's AI to create an itinerary with a pretty funny and impossible result:

Google's AI created itinerary​

 

[trecile]

I just asked ChatGPT to create a walking itinerary for the Camino de Santiago with different criteria, such as a 40 day walk, a walk with stages of 22 km or less, and a walk with stages of 20 km or less, and also an itinerary of 25 days.

All of the itineraries were identical. For the 40 day itinerary it suggested rest days and more days in Santiago to fill out the 40 days.
The suggested itineraries for the shorter stage days suggested taking taxis.
The only one that wasn't identical was the 25 day itinerary, which had a whopper of a final day - Ponferrada to Santiago, which said:

Day 25: Ponferrada to Santiago de Compostela​

• Distance: 25 km (You can choose to split this into a shorter day to Santiago if needed, by stopping in a nearby town.)

Ponferrada to Santiago is in fact 205 km.

 

[trecile]

Another suggested stage was Logroño to Nájera, but it said

Distance: 30 km (Consider splitting this stage if needed, with a stop in a town like Cirueña.)

Unfortunately, Cirueña is almost 15 km after Nájera.

 

[Bradypus]

Unfortunately, Cirueña is almost 15 km after Nájera.

Couldn't help thinking of GK Chesterton's "The Rolling English Road":
'God pardon us, nor harden us; we did not see so clear
The night we went to Bannockburn by way of Brighton Pier.'

And GKC managed his geographical nonsense long before computers made it so much quicker and easier....

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Despite its name, just remember what AI really has. It's a software program that sifts huge amounts of data, mostly from the Internet, and very quickly gives you an answer to a question.

It does in a few seconds what might take you hours to do yourself. It would be incredibly useful if you could depend on the answers.

But the difference is, is that when you look at information that doesn't make any sense, you understand that you should disregard it.

The software that we call AI can not do that because it cannot actually think independently, even at the level of a young child.

Try it sometime on something that you have expertise in. You'll find that it's very unreliable because its source of information is very unreliable.

It might be fun to plan a trip with it, but in the end, you still have to go over it with a fine tooth comb and correct its mistakes.

For a while, I thought it was useful as a writing editor but it all ends up just sounding kind of bland when it gets through with it.

 

[Anamiri]

I was recently asked by a local charity group to suggest a route for a group with no experience of a Camino and very definite limits to both time and how far they could walk each day . It took me quite a bit of time to come up with a suitable plan. AI did it in seconds . Not everyone can just follow the arrows

I think pretty much anyone can follow the arrows.

 

[Anamiri]

Despite its name, just remember what AI really has. It's a software program that sifts huge amounts of data, mostly from the Internet, and very quickly gives you an answer to a question.

It does in a few seconds what might take you hours to do yourself. It would be incredibly useful if you could depend on the answers.

But the difference is, is that when you look at information that doesn't make any sense, you understand that you should disregard it.

The software that we call AI can not do that because it cannot actually think independently, even at the level of a young child.

Try it sometime on something that you have expertise in. You'll find that it's very unreliable because its source of information is very unreliable.

It might be fun to plan a trip with it, but in the end, you still have to go over it with a fine tooth comb and correct its mistakes.

For a while, I thought it was useful as a writing editor but it all ends up just sounding kind of bland when it gets through with it.

I am putting together a Camino trip for a friend. She has some physical issues, so the terrain plays a big part of the planning. On my recent Camino I met people who booked through agencies, and it appears that the narrative goes something like:
How many days do you have, what is your budget?
I'm pretty sure that although the owners of the company may have walked the Camino, the people that made the actual bookings hadn't. I think they just divided the total length by the number of days.
There were frequent days when one of them had to take a taxi, as the terrain was too difficult for her, as were long stretches' of asphalt. She ended up so injured that she was unable to complete her Camino.
I image AI is similar, capable of division, no idea about actual terrain.


The funniest example I've seen is AI trying to create a knitting pattern.
There are examples on Ravelry, where people have done that just for fun, and the resulting projects are ridiculous, hilarious and for the most part impossible.
The fact that they create these impossible patterns quickly is irrelevant.

 

[Robo]

Here's an attempt. A route I was planning with Pat, hence the short distances.

I've used ChatGPT for other things and found it's all in the way you prompt it.

The distances are a bit off!!

I then asked it to ensure the distances are accurate using the Gronze website.
It then got quite close.

Generally in using it for other things I find that 2-3 attempts are needed to refine the answer.

Prompt.

"I would like you to plan a walking route on the Camino de Santiago. Specifically the Camino Madrid. Starting in Tres Cantos and ending in Sahagun. It should follow the Camino path, and be in daily stages of no more than 23 kms. Each day should end in a town or village that has Pilgrim accomodation and at least two open bars / restaurants for a late lunch"

First Answer​

Planning a walking route on the Camino de Santiago, specifically the Camino de Madrid, from Tres Cantos to Sahagún with stages no longer than 23 km and ending each day in a town or village with Pilgrim accommodation and at least two open bars or restaurants, can be challenging due to the varied nature of the Camino infrastructure in less populated areas. However, here's a suggested itinerary:

Day 1: Tres Cantos to Colmenar Viejo​

• Distance: ~13 km
• Accommodation: Colmenar Viejo offers a range of accommodations, including albergues for pilgrims.
• Food Options: Several bars and restaurants are available for a late lunch.

Day 2: Colmenar Viejo to Manzanares el Real​

• Distance: ~18 km
• Accommodation: Manzanares el Real has pilgrim accommodations, with options ranging from hostels to small hotels.
• Food Options: The town has multiple bars and restaurants catering to pilgrims.

Day 3: Manzanares el Real to Cercedilla​

• Distance: ~23 km
• Accommodation: Cercedilla offers pilgrim-friendly lodging, including hostels.
• Food Options: Several bars and restaurants are open, particularly catering to hikers and pilgrims.

Day 4: Cercedilla to Segovia​

• Distance: ~21 km
• Accommodation: Segovia is a larger city with numerous accommodations, including those catering to pilgrims.
• Food Options: Plenty of dining options are available, with restaurants and bars open for a late lunch.

Day 5: Segovia to Santa María la Real de Nieva​

• Distance: ~23 km
• Accommodation: The town has pilgrim accommodations.
• Food Options: There are at least two bars/restaurants in the area where pilgrims can have a meal.

Day 6: Santa María la Real de Nieva to Coca​

• Distance: ~20 km
• Accommodation: Coca provides various lodging options for pilgrims.
• Food Options: Several dining spots are available in the town.

Day 7: Coca to Alcazarén​

• Distance: ~22 km
• Accommodation: Pilgrim-friendly lodging is available in Alcazarén.
• Food Options: You’ll find a couple of bars and restaurants for a meal.

Day 8: Alcazarén to Medina de Rioseco​

• Distance: ~22 km
• Accommodation: Medina de Rioseco has several options for pilgrim accommodations.
• Food Options: Multiple restaurants and bars are open for lunch and dinner.

Day 9: Medina de Rioseco to Cuenca de Campos​

• Distance: ~23 km
• Accommodation: Cuenca de Campos offers pilgrim accommodation.
• Food Options: There are dining options available for a late meal.

Day 10: Cuenca de Campos to Sahagún​

• Distance: ~20 km
• Accommodation: Sahagún has extensive pilgrim facilities, including albergues and hotels.
• Food Options: Many bars and restaurants are available, providing a variety of choices for a late lunch.

This plan ensures manageable distances each day, with overnight stops in locations that provide necessary services for pilgrims. Please note that availability of accommodations and dining options can change, so it's always a good idea to check current conditions and book accommodations ahead of time, especially in smaller towns

 

[David]

I haven't seen any AI as any sort of intelligence, all is seems to do is to bring together that which is already available, nothing new, nothing intelligent, just rewording. Though may be thinking of the simpler ChatGPT version.
Jimmy Carr described it well. "AI is like a cover band, it can take what is already there and make things that sort of sound new but only by taking from what already exists. The original band is creative and breaks new ground, a cover band doesn't."

Same with AI, no creative "intelligence" there, is just a machine running programs, no awareness, no intelligence.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Here's an attempt. A route I was planning with Pat, hence the short distances.

I've used ChatGPT for other things and found it's all in the way you prompt it.

The distances are a bit off!!

It sounds so brilliant. But judging from my experience with AI, you would have to go and check every single one of those things manually. Accommodations, dining options, distance.

And perhaps that is the use for AI in situations like this. As an outline to get you started.

....And not even to mention that AI is generally using copyrighted materials as a source. Although that is a slippery slope. Research or theft?

 

[Robo]

I haven't seen any AI as any sort of intelligence, all is seems to do is to bring together that which is already available, nothing new, nothing intelligent, just rewording.
Jimmy Carr described it well. "AI is like a cover band, it can take what is already there and make things that sort of sound new but only by taking from what already exists. The original band is creative and breaks new ground, a cover band doesn't."

Same with AI, no creative "intelligence" there, is just a machine running programs, no awareness, no intelligence.

As for using it to create a pilgrim route? Really? Whatever happened to just going on the Frances and walking west until you bump into the cathedral ???????

I agree @David. AI Like ChatGPT merely uses information it can find on the internet.
And sometimes 'assumes' gaps in information
So in that regard, it can be quite handy to do some reserach and provide a foundation from which to improve the plan in this case.

Not that I know a lot about AI, but it's starting to get used a lot in my industry (Supply Chain).
Generative AI is the smart version (I think) that learns as it goes.

 

[Robo]

It sounds so brilliant. But judging from my experience with AI, you would have to go and check every single one of those things manually. Accommodations, dining options, distance.

And perhaps that is the use for AI in situations like this. As an outline to get you started.

....And not even to mention that AI is generally using copyrighted materials as a source. Although that is a slippery slope. Research or theft?

Very true!
If I was to use it to plan the Madrid Camino as in this example, I would then start checking each stage.
It's use is really only to provide a starting point on which to plan.

In other uses, it gave me some ideas I would not have intially considered.

 

[lalaone]

I was trying to imagine an AI trained solely on Stanley Kubrick scripts, and how it might process Camino tips. Kinda like you see AIs trained on television scripts or commercials, and how funny their outputs can be. I was picturing lines from my favorite Kubrick movie, Paths of Glory. Then Tincatinker did it from 2001: A Space Odyssey and thanks to the human factor, my mind is blown - loved it.

 

[VNwalking]

The fact that they create these impossible patterns quickly is irrelevant.

And impossible stages. Don't be like the Lawyer in the US who used AI to write a brief - which cited nonexistent cases as precedent. Oooops.

Why the fascination is beyond me. Use your brain, a guide, and a map instead. All of these are much more reliable.

 

[JIMMCC13]

I think pretty much anyone can follow the arrows.

Oh really

 

[VNwalking]

Oh really

Yup. Easy peasy.

 

[Kathor1]

@JIMMCC13, I am just curious, as so often .

I see that you walked on Camino (I guess in Spain and Portugal) in 2018, 2019, 2022, and 2023 so I guess that you have experience in Camino walking. And that you helped or are still helping a group of 12-15 people of mixed abilities, and connected to a charity, to organise their Camino trip. Quite a different logistical challenge than just walking on your own and having to take only your own physical ability into account and having to find just one bed for the night. I guess that the group walks in Spain and you just played around with ChatGP for Belfast to Dover which would obviously be quite different to to walking from SJPP to Santiago.

 

[David Tallan]

Despite its name, just remember what AI really has. It's a software program that sifts huge amounts of data, mostly from the Internet, and very quickly gives you an answer to a question.

It does in a few seconds what might take you hours to do yourself. It would be incredibly useful if you could depend on the answers.

But the difference is, is that when you look at information that doesn't make any sense, you understand that you should disregard it.

The software that we call AI can not do that because it cannot actually think independently, even at the level of a young child.

Try it sometime on something that you have expertise in. You'll find that it's very unreliable because its source of information is very unreliable.

It might be fun to plan a trip with it, but in the end, you still have to go over it with a fine tooth comb and correct its mistakes.

For a while, I thought it was useful as a writing editor but it all ends up just sounding kind of bland when it gets through with it.

I think you don't have it quite right there. AI does not sift large quantities of information to find an answer. It sifts large quantities of information to find what looks like a good answer and then writes something that looks like a good answer. Thus it is especially liable to mislead because the incorrect answer it just made up will look like a good answer. This really came to the forefront when students started using ChatGPT to write their papers. The papers had lots of citations to non-existent articles. That was because they needed citations to look like good answers to the prompt. If the citations were not ready to hand, inventing them was just as good for producing something that looked like a good answer. If the AI was just sifting information for answers, the imaginary papers could never have appeared in the citation. Obviously, being non-existent, they were nowhere to be found in the information sifted.

I think we are seeing something similar above when the distance from Ponferrada to Aantiago is given as 25km in the answer rather than 205km. For a stage of walking, 205km doesn't look like a good answer, so 25km is substituted, which looks much better.

Obviously, a bit of research will show that the distance of 25km is false and what the true distance is. But if you need to double check all the facts an AI provides, you might as well just research you factual question yourself to begin with.

 

[David Tallan]

Here's an attempt. A route I was planning with Pat, hence the short distances.

I've used ChatGPT for other things and found it's all in the way you prompt it.

The distances are a bit off!!

I then asked it to ensure the distances are accurate using the Gronze website.
It then got quite close.

Generally in using it for other things I find that 2-3 attempts are needed to refine the answer.

Prompt.

"I would like you to plan a walking route on the Camino de Santiago. Specifically the Camino Madrid. Starting in Tres Cantos and ending in Sahagun. It should follow the Camino path, and be in daily stages of no more than 23 kms. Each day should end in a town or village that has Pilgrim accomodation and at least two open bars / restaurants for a late lunch"

First Answer​

Planning a walking route on the Camino de Santiago, specifically the Camino de Madrid, from Tres Cantos to Sahagún with stages no longer than 23 km and ending each day in a town or village with Pilgrim accommodation and at least two open bars or restaurants, can be challenging due to the varied nature of the Camino infrastructure in less populated areas. However, here's a suggested itinerary:

Day 1: Tres Cantos to Colmenar Viejo​

• Distance: ~13 km
• Accommodation: Colmenar Viejo offers a range of accommodations, including albergues for pilgrims.
• Food Options: Several bars and restaurants are available for a late lunch.

Day 2: Colmenar Viejo to Manzanares el Real​

• Distance: ~18 km
• Accommodation: Manzanares el Real has pilgrim accommodations, with options ranging from hostels to small hotels.
• Food Options: The town has multiple bars and restaurants catering to pilgrims.

Day 3: Manzanares el Real to Cercedilla​

• Distance: ~23 km
• Accommodation: Cercedilla offers pilgrim-friendly lodging, including hostels.
• Food Options: Several bars and restaurants are open, particularly catering to hikers and pilgrims.

Day 4: Cercedilla to Segovia​

• Distance: ~21 km
• Accommodation: Segovia is a larger city with numerous accommodations, including those catering to pilgrims.
• Food Options: Plenty of dining options are available, with restaurants and bars open for a late lunch.

Day 5: Segovia to Santa María la Real de Nieva​

• Distance: ~23 km
• Accommodation: The town has pilgrim accommodations.
• Food Options: There are at least two bars/restaurants in the area where pilgrims can have a meal.

Day 6: Santa María la Real de Nieva to Coca​

• Distance: ~20 km
• Accommodation: Coca provides various lodging options for pilgrims.
• Food Options: Several dining spots are available in the town.

Day 7: Coca to Alcazarén​

• Distance: ~22 km
• Accommodation: Pilgrim-friendly lodging is available in Alcazarén.
• Food Options: You’ll find a couple of bars and restaurants for a meal.

Day 8: Alcazarén to Medina de Rioseco​

• Distance: ~22 km
• Accommodation: Medina de Rioseco has several options for pilgrim accommodations.
• Food Options: Multiple restaurants and bars are open for lunch and dinner.

Day 9: Medina de Rioseco to Cuenca de Campos​

• Distance: ~23 km
• Accommodation: Cuenca de Campos offers pilgrim accommodation.
• Food Options: There are dining options available for a late meal.

Day 10: Cuenca de Campos to Sahagún​

• Distance: ~20 km
• Accommodation: Sahagún has extensive pilgrim facilities, including albergues and hotels.
• Food Options: Many bars and restaurants are available, providing a variety of choices for a late lunch.

This plan ensures manageable distances each day, with overnight stops in locations that provide necessary services for pilgrims. Please note that availability of accommodations and dining options can change, so it's always a good idea to check current conditions and book accommodations ahead of time, especially in smaller towns

I notice that this is a ten day itinerary of stages no more than 23 km for a route that I believe is about 300 km long. Someone's math is off.

 

[David]

I think you don't have it quite right there. AI does not sift large quantities of information to find an answer. It sifts large quantities of information to find what looks like a good answer and then writes something that looks like a good answer. Thus it is especially liable to mislead because the incorrect answer it just made up will look like a good answer. This really came to the forefront when students started using ChatGPT to write their papers. The papers had lots of citations to non-existent articles. That was because they needed citations to look like good answers to the prompt. If the citations were not ready to hand, inventing them was just as good for producing something that looked like a good answer. If the AI was just sifting information for answers, the imaginary papers could never have appeared in the citation. Obviously, being non-existent, they were nowhere to be found in the information sifted.

I think we are seeing something similar above when the distance from Ponferrada to Aantiago is given as 25km in the answer rather than 205km. For a stage of walking, 205km doesn't look like a good answer, so 25km is substituted, which looks much better.

Obviously, a bit of research will show that the distance of 25km is false and what the true distance is. But if you need to double check all the facts an AI provides, you might as well just research you factual question yourself to begin with.

Absolutely - George Washington was very clear about not trusting AI -

 

[John Sikora]

Just ran chatgpt with the query

"Give me a route to walk by day on the Camino del Norte with no more than 12 miles per day and no more than 900 feet in elevation per day."

The route was supplied in seconds and roughly matches up to what I had planned for. The twist is that is does seem to get close on the altitude changes. While not perfect, it adds a nuance to planning that I never really had.

After I got those results I just added "Change the last query to give me accomodation recommendations" and it gave a recommended spot to stop". These matched up with what I found in booking.com.

Then I changed the query to "Make the recommendations best in that stage" and, sure enough, it spit out a list of very good places to stay.

The whole process took about 5 minutes.

Scary. You certainly would have to validate these results but it does provide a pretty good starting point for planning.

I also ran a query for the first seven days of the Del Norte asking to show a place to stay with availability. It returned results and I fact checked a couple and, indeed they did have availablity for those days.

So, you'd really have to check it, but it does seem to give a great start to the planning process - particularly with availability. You might have to use chatgpt+ (which costs $20 a month) but it might be worth it for a couple of months just to save some time.

****Update - I reran the queries but asked for the walking distance between the stages (not just the distance). Doing that, it came up with the very close distances, accomodations that are available, and limiting the distance and altitude change. Again, I assume there are some incorrect points, but with a quick check of 3 or 4 of the entries, it seems pretty accurate.

 

[Tincatinker]

I guess I’ll not be seriously concerned by AI until some prat starts using it to calculate fuel loads for transatlantic flights

 

[JIMMCC13]

Yup. Easy peasy.

Not of you're sight impaired

 

[Robo]

I notice that this is a ten day itinerary of stages no more than 23 km for a route that I believe is about 300 km long. Someone's math is off.

Yes, it was way off initially.
I then asked it to use Gronze and got a much better answer…

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I think you don't have it quite right there. AI does not sift large quantities of information to find an answer. It sifts large quantities of information to find what looks like a good answer and then writes something that looks like a good answer.

I think we're in an animated agreement? I also believe it is very unreliable if you read my entire post.

But AI is also being used for some important things. This morning I read an article about how AI was helping translate Mesopotamian cuneiform texts. But they don't say anything about how good the translations were or if an expert went back over them to check…

I also understand that it's been used to find medical drugs. But I would assume that the researchers are using it to look for ideas, and then checking to see if it turns out well in the lab, and then eventually the real world.

possibly behind a paywall...

Drug research:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/business/ai-drugs-development-terray.html?searchResultPosition=1

The Cunieform article

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/17/business/ai-drugs-development-terray.html?searchResultPosition=1

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Yes, it was way off initially.
I then asked it to use Gronze and got a much better answer…

No, that's quite an interesting idea. Giving AI parameters about what information it uses for the research would probably give better results. Thank you.

 

[lt56ny]

I was recently asked by a local charity group to suggest a route for a group with no experience of a Camino and very definite limits to both time and how far they could walk each day . It took me quite a bit of time to come up with a suitable plan. AI did it in seconds . Not everyone can just follow the arrows

I am about 99.99% sure that anyone can follow the arrows. Also walking on the CF where pilgrims abound you can just follow their dust.

I've started to experiment with route planning using an AI app. This could be a game changer. Detailed stages using bespoke criteria within seconds

I can tell you a far more meaningful gamechanger. Just walk. For those who need the comfort of a plan then they should do the work themselves. Look at the towns, look at the route, look at the ups and downs. learn about the history. see where one may need to buy food to bring or extra water, maybe absorb some of the unique cultures of different regions along the chosen camino, learn about the differences between private, municipal, donativo, refugio albergues as well as hostels, pensions, rural casas, the list goes on and on. Work a little and enjoy receiving knowledge that one can find on their own. Instead of speaking or typing into an app and then mindlessly following where to go.
Oh and let me repeat, and really, 99.99% of people can just follow the arrows. Is the world becoming that lame??????

 

[JIMMCC13]

I am about 99.99% sure that anyone can follow the arrows. Also walking on the CF where pilgrims abound you can just follow their dust.

I can tell you a far more meaningful gamechanger. Just walk. For those who need the comfort of a plan then they should do the work themselves. Look at the towns, look at the route, look at the ups and downs. learn about the history. see where one may need to buy food to bring or extra water, maybe absorb some of the unique cultures of different regions along the chosen camino, learn about the differences between private, municipal, donativo, refugio albergues as well as hostels, pensions, rural casas, the list goes on and on. Work a little and enjoy receiving knowledge that one can find on their own. Instead of speaking or typing into an app and then mindlessly following where to go.
Oh and let me repeat, and really, 99.99% of people can just follow the arrows. Is the world becoming that lame??????

Or judgemental.

 

[lt56ny]

Or judgemental.

That's funny. I always enjoy when people say someone is judgemental because they don't agree. You know what you are sooooooooooo judgemental of my judgement
And also, what is so horrible about suggesting that someone gain knowledge and familiarity with something they know very little about or may have ever experienced. Maybe that will give the future pilgrim more understanding and security that they can do a pilgrimage. Also if they worry about getting lost even on the CF they can always download the Wise Pilgrim or Buen Camino app and they can open the downloadable GPS map and know exactly where they are in relationship to the camino. If they do not know how to do it, they can ask any 10 year old to show them. If I can learn anyone can.

 

[JIMMCC13]

Buen Camino

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I am about 99.99% sure that anyone can follow the arrows. Also walking on the CF where pilgrims abound you can just follow their dust.

I can tell you a far more meaningful gamechanger. Just walk. For those who need the comfort of a plan then they should do the work themselves. Look at the towns, look at the route, look at the ups and downs. learn about the history. see where one may need to buy food to bring or extra water, maybe absorb some of the unique cultures of different regions along the chosen camino, learn about the differences between private, municipal, donativo, refugio albergues as well as hostels, pensions, rural casas, the list goes on and on. Work a little and enjoy receiving knowledge that one can find on their own. Instead of speaking or typing into an app and then mindlessly following where to go.
Oh and let me repeat, and really, 99.99% of people can just follow the arrows. Is the world becoming that lame??????

Obviously most people on this board have walked multiple Caminos and know they don't need AI research or really hardly any research if they want to “just do it.”

But for instance I could see using an AI search like” provide a list of buildings or organizations with artistic, cultural, or historical significance along the Camino Purtugese Interior route.” Something like that might generate unique information. I see it as an additional tool, not the only tool.

That said I personally seldom use AI and don’t think the results are very good. And its a very good point about submersing yourself in the research to come to a deeper understanding.

 

[lt56ny]

Obviously most people on this board have walked multiple Caminos and know they don't need AI research or really hardly any research if they want to “just do it.”

But for instance I could see using an AI search like” provide a list of buildings or organizations with artistic, cultural, or historical significance along the Camino Purtugese Interior route.” Something like that might generate unique information. I see it as an additional tool, not the only tool.

That said I personally seldom use AI and don’t think the results are very good. And its a very good point about submersing yourself in the research to come to a deeper understanding.

I agree it could help with finding things to do. I am not sure but could someone miss something that may be of real interest to them by just asking AI and not doing some old fashioned research themselves?

 

[JIMMCC13]

I agree it could help with finding things to do. I am not sure but could someone miss something that may be of real interest to them by just asking AI and not doing some old fashioned research themselves?

Old fashioned Research being pre Internet ?

 

[Bradypus]

Old fashioned Research being pre Internet ?

Possibly. Or by being selective in one's choice of internet sources and then assessing their strengths and weaknesses. I did not use the internet at all in planning my first Camino. I spoke to one former pilgrim about her Camino and read a book by another pilgrim about her journey. I then borrowed a Spanish-language guidebook and bought train tickets to SJPDP. It does not need to be any more complicated than that.

 

[David Tallan]

That's funny. I always enjoy when people say someone is judgemental because they don't agree. You know what you are sooooooooooo judgemental of my judgement

I think there is a difference between disagreement and saying in response to someone's different approach "Is the world becoming that lame??????" Can you really not see the judgement in that?

 

[David Tallan]

I agree it could help with finding things to do. I am not sure but could someone miss something that may be of real interest to them by just asking AI and not doing some old fashioned research themselves?

Are you next going to complain about people using Google to search instead of doing the old fashioned way of old-fashioned research of looking through all the information sources ourselves? I don't complain about the laziness of using a modern tool. Just the efficacy of AI for certain research purposes.

 

[dfox]

It seems okay Molly. I was just playing really . I asked for a route from Belfast to Dover around 25k a day and stages ending at places where accommodation is available and it came up with a route within seconds. I though it was a bit circuitous so I asked it to amend and it did

I hope you wouldn't mind sharing with us the AI app (e.g., ChatGPT 4.o, Co-pilot, Gemini, Claude 3), the context for the AI app, prompts used to generate the response, the outcomes of the prompts, etc. These info would help us appreciate the technology more.

 

[David Tallan]

Old fashioned Research being pre Internet ?

As someone who has pre-Internet sources for Camino research, I can attest they would be pretty much useless for deciding where to sleep. The route has changed since then, so I don't think I would rely on them for finding my way back to the route if I stepped off (which has happened at least once, I think, every Camino, despite waymarking). On the other hand, my favourite source for matters historic and cultural (history, architecture, art, etc.) is pre-Internet.

But pre-AI research does have its benefits, as I mentioned above, in ensuring that the AI results you are relying on aren't AI fantasies.

 

[JIMMCC13]

@JIMMCC13, I am just curious, as so often .

I see that you walked on Camino (I guess in Spain and Portugal) in 2018, 2019, 2022, and 2023 so I guess that you have experience in Camino walking. And that you helped or are still helping a group of 12-15 people of mixed abilities, and connected to a charity, to organise their Camino trip. Quite a different logistical challenge than just walking on your own and having to take only your own physical ability into account

and having to find just one bed for the night. I guess that the group walks in Spain and you just played around with ChatGP for Belfast to Dover which would obviously be quite different to to walking from SJPP to Santiago.

Sorry I missed your post. I walk solo and really enjoy the planning and researching of my Camino . Just my thing I don't insist it better or more orthodox than any other way . The group did walk in Spain this year and had a marvellous experience ! Yes I have recently started to research the potential of AI by setting a task which. I thought it did really well with . I just shared it on here not really expecting some of the dismissive responses along side it has to be said many reasoned responses. I also observe a certain irony on those who propagate the old fashioned non technical approach sharing these opinions on the Internet

 

[Kathor1]

Sorry I missed your post. I walk solo and really enjoy the planning and researching of my Camino . Just my thing I don't insist it better or more orthodox than any other way . The group did walk in Spain this year and had a marvellous experience ! Yes I have recently started to research the potential of AI by setting a task which. I thought it did really well with . I just shared it on here not really expecting some of the dismissive responses along side it has to be said many reasoned responses. I also observe a certain irony on those who propagate the old fashioned non technical approach sharing these opinions on the Internet

Thank you for your reply. When you say AI, do you mean ChatGPT or a similar app? I had downloaded ChatGPT a long time ago to just see what it was about and then removed it again. I've installed it again just now. It is the free version (GPT-4o) and after a short conversation it said that I had hit a time limit of a few hours and that I could either continue with the paid version ChatGPT Plus or with their basic model. So that is all that I have experience of. I am aware of its limits and of some of its shortcoming. I think that it can be a useful tool for some of my interests and purposes but I've very little practical experience so far.

I see that I can teach it things when it has got something wrong. This may be an interesting pursuit. It appears to be an attentive listener and eager to learn. I see potential ...

Thanks for sharing your experience. Your interest and your enjoyment shines through. And Buen Camino if you walk again some time in the future.

 

[Dazzerrtw]

I've started to experiment with route planning using an AI app. This could be a game changer. Detailed stages using bespoke criteria within seconds

Can’t you just “ enjoy the walk “ ?

 

[JIMMCC13]

Thank you for your reply. When you say AI, do you mean ChatGPT or a similar app? I had downloaded ChatGPT a long time ago to just see what it was about and then removed it again. I've installed it again just now. It is the free version (GPT-4o) and after a short conversation it said that I had hit a time limit of a few hours and that I could either continue with the paid version ChatGPT Plus or with their basic model. So that is all that I have experience of. I am aware of its limits and of some of its shortcoming. I think that it can be a useful tool for some of my interests and purposes but I've very little practical experience so far.

I see that I can teach it things when it has got something wrong. This may be an interesting pursuit. It appears to be an attentive listener and eager to learn. I see potential ...

Thanks for sharing your experience. Your interest and your enjoyment shines through. And Buen Camino if you walk again some time in the future.

I

Can’t you just “ enjoy the walk “ ?

cant I just be allowed to enjoy it my way …

 

[Kirkie]

Sorry I missed your post. I walk solo and really enjoy the planning and researching of my Camino . Just my thing I don't insist it better or more orthodox than any other way . The group did walk in Spain this year and had a marvellous experience ! Yes I have recently started to research the potential of AI by setting a task which. I thought it did really well with . I just shared it on here not really expecting some of the dismissive responses along side it has to be said many reasoned responses. I also observe a certain irony on those who propagate the old fashioned non technical approach sharing these opinions on the Internet

Do you ever come south of the border? The information centre in D8 is a great place for chatting and learning, sharing experience. Most of the year, open Thursday, Friday and Saturday 10.30 till 15.30. First Saturday of every month there is a special Pilgrim blessing. Some people come just for that!
Here is the web link..

Camino Society Ireland - All about the Camino de Santiago

The Camino Society provides Information, support and official Pilgrims Passports for the Camino de Santiago. Independent, non-commercial and All Island(Ireland).

www.caminosociety.ie

 

[JIMMCC13]

Thanks

 

[lt56ny]

Are you next going to complain about people using Google to search instead of doing the old fashioned way of old-fashioned research of looking through all the information sources ourselves? I don't complain about the laziness of using a modern tool. Just the efficacy of AI for certain research purposes.

I was not complaining at all. I really could care less what anyone does. I was simply pointing out that doing your own research may uncover information you did not even know you were interested in. It may also give you the ability to absorb information that AI may not cover or explain. I also pointed out that it is the CF is really, really well marked and even in doubt there are many pilgrims, or locals or if all else fails you do have a fallback technology of Buen Camino or Wise Pilgrim to show you exactly where you are in relationship to the camino. It can foster more confidence and independence in people who may not have had alot when they started their journey. But if someone wants to use it go right ahead. I never said you shouldn't and I sure wasn't complaining. It really amazes me how people jump up others butts when they perceive something that someone writes instead of simply asking for a clarification. Maybe you are just asking for that and I just gave it to you.

 

[JIMMCC13]

Thank you for your reply. When you say AI, do you mean ChatGPT or a similar app? I had downloaded ChatGPT a long time ago to just see what it was about and then removed it again. I've installed it again just now. It is the free version (GPT-4o) and after a short conversation it said that I had hit a time limit of a few hours and that I could either continue with the paid version ChatGPT Plus or with their basic model. So that is all that I have experience of. I am aware of its limits and of some of its shortcoming. I think that it can be a useful tool for some of my interests and purposes but I've very little practical experience so far.

I see that I can teach it things when it has got something wrong. This may be an interesting pursuit. It appears to be an attentive listener and eager to learn. I see potential ...

Thanks for sharing your experience. Your interest and your enjoyment shines through. And Buen Camino if you walk again some time in the future.

Thanks for your insightful message K
I played with Chatapt and Gemini but I really am new to this AI ....though I do love to look at new things. I agree with you and see the potential and who knows what the future brings. I
head off on a Camino at the end of this month and I’m really forward to the walking and engaging with so many wonderful people …which really is I believe the most important dynamic. It’s been nice ‘ conversing’ and Buen Camino Jim

I hope you wouldn't mind sharing with us the AI app (e.g., ChatGPT 4.o, Co-pilot, Gemini, Claude 3), the context for the AI app, prompts used to generate the response, the outcomes of the prompts, etc. These info would help us appreciate the technology more.

I uses ChatGPT and just today looked at Gemini. I found the suggestion that referencing the likes of Gronze.com to to the app as part of the request is a great idea. Thanks Jim

 

[trecile]

I was simply pointing out that doing your own research may uncover information you did not even know you were interested in

AI is just another tool for doing research. It could come up with places and things to do that you were unaware of or didn't even know you were interested in.

 

[Camo]

Yeah Ferry from Belfast to Scotland and then 36 to 37 days Molly.

Once in Liverpool sort of area you have some interesting connected signposted trails all the way to Dover.

Down to Broadway and follow Cotswold Way 100 miles to Bath, then the Kennet and Avon Canal trail all the way to Reading then grab Thames Path to Weybridge and take the River Way path (National Trust) to Guildford where the North Downs Way (most of it the Pilgrims Way) takes you all the way to Dover (via the Canterbury loop if you wish).

I have documented the whole of that route by AI but Google AI in Sat Nav to follow the waymarkers path so I would be interested to know if your AI took the same path

 

[JIMMCC13]

Once in Liverpool sort of area you have some interesting connected signposted trails all the way to Dover.

Down to Broadway and follow Cotswold Way 100 miles to Bath, then the Kennet and Avon Canal trail all the way to Reading then grab Thames Path to Weybridge and take the River Way path (National Trust) to Guildford where the North Downs Way (most of it the Pilgrims Way) takes you all the way to Dover (via the Canterbury loop if you wish).

I have documented the whole of that route by AI but Google AI in Sat Nav to follow the waymarkers path so I would be interested to know if your AI took the same path

Thank You

 

[bullingtonce]

I've started to experiment with route planning using an AI app. This could be a game changer. Detailed stages using bespoke criteria within seconds

Remember, AI is not inherently bad or evil. It is, after all, 'artificial' intelligence and will never measure up to the human brain itself. Kudos to you for being willing to use AI and to see what it generates. Even human books on suggested Camino trail to walk are often wrong in a number of ways or exclude what ought to have been included. After all, humans are as error prone as they have always been. I was especially pleased to see that you asked for AI to amend the walk it originally presented--good for you. Chuck

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Here's a thread from a member who asked Google's AI to create an itinerary with a pretty funny and impossible result:

Google's AI created itinerary​

Delightful - I missed that the first time around, thanks.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I too have been playing with AI and, for funsies, fed ChatGPT with my work resume.
It was certainly interesting. In my last job before retirement it claimed I'd improved design quality by 20% and I'd no idea where this figure came from.

and then it clicked - would that have been when I dropped down from a 5 day to a 3 day week?

But then how did it know?

 

[Jeff Crawley]

It seems okay Molly. I was just playing really . I asked for a route from Belfast to Dover around 25k a day and stages ending at places where accommodation is available and it came up with a route within seconds. I though it was a bit circuitous so I asked it to amend and it did

Any chance you could put up a screenshot please?

 

[Karl Oz]

Oh really

Well, hundreds of thouands, if not millions, have done so for decades now Jim.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Well, hundreds of thouands, if not millions, have done so for decades now Jim.

There are sight impaired people though.

 

[Karl Oz]

There are sight impaired people though.

Of course R&P, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The small number of vision-impaired people walking would be accompanied by friends, likely using the arrows! No obvious link to AI though, which was the point that I was admittedly indirectly addressing.

 

[AZperegrino]

I am definitely no AI expert, but I think it's important to realize that most of the well-known AI models (e.g. Gemini, Chat-GPT, etc.) are "Large Language Models". Their strength is to collect lots of data (by scraping whatever sources they find on the internet) and using it to create text of some sort. Again, the emphasis is on language, rather than numerical data and associated logic.

Interestingly, they create sentences one word at a time, not like we humans do. We tend to come up with a whole thought or concept and then start putting it into words. This may explain why it sometimes creates text that makes sense grammatically but is not true or correct.

It is therefore surprising (to me anyway) that they can produce something like an Excel spreadsheet that works reasonably well, and with 2 or 3 iterations (based on our adjustments of boundary conditions) can produce something that works well.

As for the Camino context, it may not create a good itinerary (unless you put in LOTS of boundary conditions and do multiple iterations), but it has shown to work very well creating a packing list.

 

[Camo]

I asked for a route from Belfast to Dover around 25k a day and stages ending at places where accommodation is available

The filter you need to activate would be "Walking/Hiking Trails" otherwise it will simply take you on main roads. Google is working towards this market (including Caminos) but is not there yet (outside of USA) hence their great desire to have "Google Local Guides" ADD sections of walking trails that are presently not marked as such on Google Maps/Earth.

So please try that and see what happens but I think it is too early for this Beta Project to work over a long distance.

These comments apply to both Bard and manual

 

[WGroleau]

I've started to experiment with route planning using an AI app. This could be a game changer. Detailed stages using bespoke criteria within seconds

In most cases, AI stands for Artificial Idiocy. It has been known to make stuff up, and/or tell you what it thinks you want to hear. Maybe it’s OK for this purpose.
Sometimes, I put queries to https://perplexity.ai because it tells me sources to check against its answer. On one recent query, it cited five sources. Four of them had NO connection to the question, and perplexity’s answer was nothing more than a paraphrase of the first one.

 

[Camo]

In most cases, AI stands for Artificial Idiocy

Yes the term AI is simply a "me-too" for google which they don't need to push as they have been doing it well for years and the 3D Buildings in Google Earth is nothing short of amazing (and is available for the town centre of Santiago de Compostela).

But in this context of creating a route as you are attempting there is an initial step by Google to make all links ACTIVE in the engine you are using and they use AI to create their database from satellite images (and their 200 billion Street View panos).

But they are cunning enough to have a "Google Local Guide Community" to help them on "lesser trails" like some sections of the Camino routes and that too uses AI (and seldom works) because as they explain to us if you can not SEE all of the trail in the Google Earth image they will not use her/his input to "Fix a Road".

So they have a second tier called Content Partners where a REAL person from Google checks out the changes suggested by "approved people".

 

[Camo]

Once in Liverpool sort of area you have some interesting connected signposted trails all the way to Dover.

Down to Broadway and follow Cotswold Way 100 miles to Bath, then the Kennet and Avon Canal trail all the way to Reading then grab Thames Path to Weybridge and take the River Way path (National Trust) to Guildford where the North Downs Way (most of it the Pilgrims Way) takes you all the way to Dover (via the Canterbury loop if you wish).

I have documented the whole of that route by AI but Google AI in Sat Nav to follow the waymarkers path so I would be interested to know if your AI took the same path

In fact discussions on miles vs kms in Hector's thread reminded me that I was working on that UK project about a year back and it is high time to go back and complete it (and it is in miles).

Here is the main selection screen and you can see it includes the English Camino (in dark blue) recently signposted from Reading to Southampton.



So if you (the OP) are using Google AI the whole trail from Broadway to Dover is now ACTIVE (about 80% active before I started the individual projects 8 years ago with the Cotswold Way) in Google Maps so there is a good chance it might follow this exact route - but as I say you would need to use a filter Google knows like "Walking Trails"