German Jakobswege, Via Scandinavica, experiences, and how to continue!?

[Jyrki Wahlstedt]

Dear All,
on Jun 12th I started my pilgrimage on Via Scandinavica, from Lubeck to Eisenach. My idea initially was to go finally to Santiago, but… This route seems to be little travelled, because I met only one other person walking the same route. One thing following from that is that services were a bit scarce, to say the least. The other thing was that paths were partly very overgrown, so that without having the route coordinates in my mobile I would have been totally lost. The biggest problem, though, was that at times it was truly difficult to find a place to sleep in. Occasionally, then, I had to resort to bus or train to reach the next bed.
This is of course a catch-22, as the small numbers of walkers can't support albergue type of places.
One feature common to Spain is that people being afraid of dogs should consider twice. Once near a village, Ebstorf, I saw a lonely dog with no human in sight. The dog ran to me, sniffed a bit, and then ran away. I never saw the owner.
With all these problems I decided to stop at Eisenach.
An additional problem was that harvesters &c had very much broken the wider forest roads turning them very muddy.

About the future: does anyone have any experience about the situation on the route I planned after Eisenach, that being Vacha - Fulda - Würzburg - Rothenburg - Rottenburg - Fribourg (- Hericourt - Thann - Beaune - Cluny - Le Puy-en-Velay)? How are the services, how are the paths? I guess France is a bit better, especially after Le Puy-en-Velay. Any comments appreciated

PS I wrote a blog: the first entry https://jyrkiwahlstedt.wordpress.com/2024/06/11/lyypekissa/, and made videos: https://www.youtube.com/@jyrkiwahlstedt1136. All texts in Finnish, unfortunately, not that well known, but one gets some idea, anyway…

 

[good_old_shoes]

I took a different way through Germany, but of the route you plan to walk, I've done the french section from Beaune - Cluny - Le Puy - St. Jean.

Until Cluny I think I only met a handful pilgrims in about a month.

After Cluny I met a few pilgrims each day, and from Le Puy onwards there are plenty other pilgrims to meet.

The Le Puy route is very beautiful, especially the first half. But a lot of up and down. Mostly natural trails.

The section from Cluny onwards was very well signed when I walked it ('22) and even had some pilgrim accommodations. Overall really good pilgrim infrastructure compared to what I found on the way before. I used maps for shortcuts, but if you stick to the trail and use the guide book maps, that's probably not necessary.

I recommend the "Guide orange" for that section. It has all the contact info for the accommodation and also maps.

Around Beaune there was still a lot of vineyards. But you later also get rolling hills, a bit of a mountain after Ouroux, the Loire Valley and even a short section of gorge.

I found it very nice to walk. Paths were in good condition.

I walked with a tent and camped most of the time, but the few gites I stayed at were nice. Especially the one in Ouroux.

Edit to add information: For the lesser walked part of my route through France, there were so called "acceuil jacquaire" which are basically private people who take in pilgrims for the night. Some tourist informations had printed lists of those for the whole region, some would not give a list but a few contacts for their area. These places need to be called a few days before and are either donation based or for a small fee. Maybe that exists also along the route you want to take.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

@Jyrki Wahlstedt, I'm doing something similar, albeit not on the same route as yourself.

Thread 'From my doorstep in Germany - a (very!) long term project' https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ep-in-germany-a-very-long-term-project.83155/

My recently updated plans are at the end of the thread.

To date I have walked just 370 kms, (Via Imperii )and I've faced some of the same challenges, inc Harvester's ripping up the trails. In 370 km I've seen three hikers, two of whom were going the opposite way. A good few cyclists some days. No day trippers, no fellow Pilgrims.

Originally I started it with the idea of utilizing my travel pass to its fullest extent, (travelling to & fro from home daily) however that quickly became unrealistic.
Like you I found accommodation to be very hit and miss, so the travel pass has still gotten a moderate amount of use. I've learnt that at times I simply have to book a cheap hotel somewhere for two or three nights and take the local train or bus to and fro. That of course does have its advantages because I learn where all the local facilities are and I walk significantly lighter on a daily basis.
Another issue I have faced is the lack of services along the way - many days I had literally nowhere for food or water, let alone toilets in 30+ kms. Sundays of course I'd be lucky to find an Imbis, let alone anywhere else for food. So carrying extra food was very important.
I quickly resorted to carrying my water filter because there's always been a stream, lake, or cemetery. (Most cemetery water sources are non-potable here). This reduced my pack weight by 2kgs.

I've been fortunate in that the route that I have chosen has not generally been overgrown, most of the Jakobsweg utilises local paths and Germans do like to walk/cycle.
Unlike Spain (where I was attacked) I have had zero issues with dogs. Yes I've seen a few but they've always been exceptionally well trained, a common feature here - something I love about Germany.

Trail marking has been very hit and miss. Sometimes completely non-existent, sometimes absolutely brilliant, occasionally simply spasmodic. I learnt very early on that I needed an app, Mapy.cz very quickly proved itself ideal.

Having broken my ankle on the trail I'm currently have more time than I desire on my hands so I'm using it for planning. I'm using mapy.cz on my computer because it has functions there that it doesn't have on my Handy. The Jakobsweg's are always there, just when I pick the two points I wish to travel between it doesn't always follow the route, but rather picks the shortest trail. (Which is probably every bit as good if not better, but I prefer to stay on the Jakobsweg if possible)
On the computer you can drag it to wherever you wish, and then save the trail. I use it in airplane mode (offline) when actually on the way, or, more often, simply turn it on briefly just to double check direction's as needed.

I have decided to try wild camping and have accordingly upgraded some of my camping gear ( my new tent just arrived on Friday!). In some areas it is illegal, in other areas a 'grey area' shall we say. (Technically overnighting is allowed but camping is not). Whilst this will involve me carrying 2 -2.5 kgs more (inc. food) assuming it is successful it will mean I can walk my own distances and not be limited by accommodation. I still hope to have a proper bed every second or third night! It will be especially useful once I hit France.

Apparently some of the Jakobsweg's have much better infrastructure, I hope to come across that the further south I go. To date I have had one Albergue (Bad Duben, not cheap but brilliant!).

Whilst I was writing this @good_old_shoes has responded, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Kathor1]

About the future: does anyone have any experience about the situation on the route I planned after Eisenach, that being Vacha - Fulda - Würzburg - Rothenburg - Rottenburg - Fribourg (- Hericourt - Thann - Beaune - Cluny - Le Puy-en-Velay)? How are the services, how are the paths? I guess France is a bit better, especially after Le Puy-en-Velay. Any comments appreciated

Hi @Jyrki Wahlstedt, first of all, respect for having walked from Lübeck to Eisenach!

I have no experience with long-distance walking and accommodation for Jakobspilger in the region Vacha-Fulda-Würzburg-Rothenburg but I know some of the area. I can understand why you are planning to stop and continue at a point further away - scarcity of other pilgrims, scarcity of beds, and the havoc that the unusual amounts of rain this year must have done to some of the footpaths. OTOH, I can assure you that having walked a very long continuous distance across several countries (from your home I guess?) to Santiago in a distant border region of our continent is a very special experience ...

Between Fulda and Würzburg you would cross the Rhön middle mountains range - a very special region. Würzburg and Rothenburg are in lovely Franconia which evokes images of their white wine and their Gasthof hospitality and good local food for me. You will have entered Southern Germany . However, I recall barely a forum member who walked on this path or even in this region. @Kitsambler is one such member (walked from Nürnberg I think) and @Delphinoula is another one (walked in short sections I think). Use the forum's Search function for their comments if you have the time to sift through the posts for useful information for you; you could also search the forum for Franconia.

From Le Puy onwards it is not only "a bit better", it is a lot better. There will be plenty of accommodation in small hotels, farmhouses, and especially in gîtes, including dormitory beds, for walkers and pilgrims alike (randonneurs et pèlerins). It will be like a different world.

All the best!

PS: I just noticed that the EN Wikipedia article has this to say: The Rhön Mountains are a popular tourist destination and walking area.

 

[Kathor1]

I forgot to mention that (I guess) your trail would soon lead you to the Kreuzberg mountain, the "sacred mountain of the Franconians". It is a regionally well-known pilgrimage site, with a century old tradition of (group) foot pilgrimages from villages and towns in the larger region that is still alive and kicking to this day; the Kreuzberg pilgrimages also gained more popularity in recent years thanks to the contemporary Jakobswege/Camino boom/revival. Monks still live in the monastery and they brewed their beers until about 1992 (as I read on Wikipedia just now). Today the beer is brewed by laypersons under the supervision of the monks. The Kreuzberg mountain top and its inn is a popular destination for daytrippers, too, of course.

I am not trying to persuade you but I think if I were to stop, I'd stop in Würzburg or better even in Rothenburg which is famous for its still intact medieval town centre, its beautiful Gothic main church with famous wood-carved altar piece; this church is dedicated to Saint James, btw. Rothenburg has also unfortunately become a very popular tourist destination. They have also started to care in particular for Camino/Jakobswege pilgrims and put up a modern pilgrim statue in front of their Jakobskirche.

 

[Anhalter]

I live about 100km east of Eisenach and also have the dream to soooomeday walk all the way to Santiago. So already did some research but no first hand experience.

For one, the infrastructure seems to be a challenge. I am considering taking a tent with me when someday i walk. While Eisenach-Vacha is the "Ökumenischer Pilgerweg", which is decently promoted and does seem to have some infrastructure, the next leg, in my plan Vacha to Mainz seems to be more of a challenge. After Mainz again infrastructure seems to be a tad bid better. The Route from Metz - Dijon - Le Puy is still a very big questionmark for me. But I'd guess, with every step getting closer to Santiago the chance of meeting another pilgrim and finding pilgrim oriented infrastructure gets bigger. Once in Le Puy it should not be any issue anymore.

 

[good_old_shoes]

The Route from Metz - Dijon - Le Puy is still a very big questionmark for me. But I'd guess, with every step getting closer to Santiago the chance of meeting another pilgrim and finding pilgrim oriented infrastructure gets bigger. Once in Le Puy it should not be any issue anymore.

I've done the route via Metz and Dijon. Has a good network of acceuil jacquaires apparently, but those are not always available. Since I didn't like making phone calls days before, I preferred the campsites (with some detours and long days, that worked most of the time).

The yellow Outdoor guide for the walk from Trier to Le Puy is quite useful, but mostly lists hotels as accommodation.

You can get a list with acceuil jacquaires on the first section in the tourist office in Sierck-les-Bains.

The campsites sometimes have little huts to rent, which might be an option some days.

The Metz - Dijon - Cluny section has only few pilgrims, but I still really enjoyed it in most parts. Was happy to have my IGN maps, though. Not much pilgrim infrastructure, and not always well marked. For me it was definitely the hardest part of the walk from Germany to Finisterre, but certainly doable if you can manage longer walking days and can navigate well. Not difficult to walk, but sometimes difficult because of lack of infrastructure.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Actually I think there's a few German members who have done ( or are doing) Home - Santiago, @Leila99 for example. She just finished her's this year.
And by last year @Reija had walked as far as Le Puy ( if not further by now). I believe she took the Swiss route.

My plan is: France

Freiburg -Belefort,
B - Manfeure ( beginning of the Grandes Traversées du Jura - GTJ).
M - Culoz walking a mix of the GTJ (GR509)and the GR5. Numerous Gites along the way, plus a handful of other options. Culoz is around 10 km downstream from Motz. Cross the bridge and join the Via Gebennensis.
VG - VP -
SJPdP

@caminka is on the VG now, her excellent thread is here:

Thread 'Caminka on Via Gebenennsis' https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/caminka-on-via-gebenennsis.87620/

 

[Kitsambler]

Yes, I walked across Germany, although on a different route than you plan. (Prague) - Eslarn - Nurmberg - Ulm - Konstanz, which is to say, entirely across Bavaria. I walked in late May - Early June, which had very nice weather that year. Trails were well maintained, and well-marked in the German fashion (ie, intermittently, and only when there was a turn). I stayed in gasthause in the towns, which were well-spaced. Bed price included robust breakfast, dinner was ala carte. I would occasionally encounter another pilgrim walker (apparently the local practice is to walk in parish-sponsored groups in July-August). One night stayed in a church-operated pilger refuge, but they had a Rule of Silence during dinner. I did a lot of reading at dinners instead of conversation. Daily details in the blog, linked in sig block below.

 

[thewalkingkat]

About the future: does anyone have any experience about the situation on the route I planned after Eisenach, that being Vacha - Fulda - Würzburg - Rothenburg - Rottenburg - Fribourg (- Hericourt - Thann - Beaune - Cluny - Le Puy-en-Velay)? How are the services, how are the paths? I guess France is a bit better, especially after Le Puy-en-Velay. Any comments appreciated

I’ve also done a different route out of Germany (Cologne - Metz - Dijon - Cluny).

Between Beaune and Le Puy, my accommodations were a mix of camp sites (I carried a tent), private rooms, hostels and hotels. Really a bit of everything and very friendly people all around. I did get a pilgrim discount in some hotels, sometimes a considerable amount without asking for it.

The trail is very well marked, I rarely used my GPS backup. Be prepared to carry more water and food as sometimes, there are no services all day. I would also suggest having some backup food as the opening times of shops and restaurants were not always reliable. It’s also worth checking out a slight detour to a bigger supermarket here and there to stock up.

From Le Puy, as others have said, there is a whole pilgrim infrastructure, so much less planning required.

 

[CanadianBarb]

Dear All,
on Jun 12th I started my pilgrimage on Via Scandinavica, from Lubeck to Eisenach. My idea initially was to go finally to Santiago, but… This route seems to be little travelled, because I met only one other person walking the same route. One thing following from that is that services were a bit scarce, to say the least. The other thing was that paths were partly very overgrown, so that without having the route coordinates in my mobile I would have been totally lost. The biggest problem, though, was that at times it was truly difficult to find a place to sleep in. Occasionally, then, I had to resort to bus or train to reach the next bed.
This is of course a catch-22, as the small numbers of walkers can't support albergue type of places.
One feature common to Spain is that people being afraid of dogs should consider twice. Once near a village, Ebstorf, I saw a lonely dog with no human in sight. The dog ran to me, sniffed a bit, and then ran away. I never saw the owner.
With all these problems I decided to stop at Eisenach.
An additional problem was that harvesters &c had very much broken the wider forest roads turning them very muddy.

About the future: does anyone have any experience about the situation on the route I planned after Eisenach, that being Vacha - Fulda - Würzburg - Rothenburg - Rottenburg - Fribourg (- Hericourt - Thann - Beaune - Cluny - Le Puy-en-Velay)? How are the services, how are the paths? I guess France is a bit better, especially after Le Puy-en-Velay. Any comments appreciated

PS I wrote a blog: the first entry https://jyrkiwahlstedt.wordpress.com/2024/06/11/lyypekissa/, and made videos: https://www.youtube.com/@jyrkiwahlstedt1136. All texts in Finnish, unfortunately, not that well known, but one gets some idea, anyway…

Hello Jyrki, I am going to start from Erfurt south (It is also called the Way of the Women honoring three powerful saints in the middle ages) through Coburg till Bamberg (then heading over to a non- Jakobsweg walk, the Rennsteig but both in Thueringer Wald) at the end of August and will let you know how that goes..... next summer am planning on walking from the Russian border to Gdansk all the way across to Hamburg, and am accepting not running into many pilgrims nor much support, but pilgrimages will be that way sometimes.. it is a personal deep journey that I accept as that... where millions of people, especially women and children fled from East Prussia, my mother having been one of them... Ultriea!

 

[Kathor1]

@Jyrki Wahlstedt, did you make a final decision about whether to continue or jump ahead?

I have been getting a little enthusiastic about walking part of the Vacha to Würzburg/Rothenburg Jakobsweg and I looked into some online information. It isn't the comfort and ease that you have in Spain: There is no Gronze.de (THE pilgrim accommodation website for Spain), and even the websites of the local Saint James associations lack detailed information in one place for the long-distance walker - you have to click around and search for a while.

There are apparently only three specific pilgrim 'albergues' on this 180+ km path - in Vacha, in Bad Kissingen, and in Binsbach. There are lists of Gasthäuser, B&B's and pensions of course, but often it is recommended to contact the local tourist office who will find you a room. There are some working monasteries in the area that offer beds. Fulda, Bad Kissingen and Würzburg are bigger towns where it will not be difficult to get a room - for the rest I would not know. July and August is the traditional summer holiday season in this area, there may be a higher demand for beds. I guess that you have guidebooks and other documentation with you?

The local https://www.jakobus-franken.de has plenty of information about this Jakobswege section but it is in German only.

PS: In Geisa you can stay in a former jail. "Gast im Knast" - "Be a jailbird for one night". 300 years old. Looks intriguing. Prices start from €27.

Just for context, this overview is from one of the relevant websites:

 

[Marc S.]

next summer am planning on walking from the Russian border to Gdansk all the way across to Hamburg, and am accepting not running into many pilgrims nor much support, but pilgrimages will be that way sometimes..

I think you will find more support than you maybe expect. Not sure about the Polish section, but I walked from the Polish/German border to Hamburg last year on the Via Baltica. Did not meet any other pilgrims, but I did stay in pilgrim accomodation (Herbergen) most days. Support network on the German part of the Via Baltica is amazing actually..

 

[Kitsambler]

Guidebooks for the routes in Germany and elsewhere, all in German but with great graphics, available in the local bookstores and here https://www.conrad-stein-verlag.de/produkt-kategorie/aktivitaeten-themen/pilgern/ (Google translate is your friend for the book titles).

 

[CanadianBarb]

I think you will find more support than you maybe expect. Not sure about the Polish section, but I walked from the Polish/German border to Hamburg last year on the Via Baltica. Did not meet any other pilgrims, but I did stay in pilgrim accomodation (Herbergen) most days. Support network on the German part of the Via Baltica is amazing actually..

That is so exciting to hear about!!!! Thank you! I have the "Love Camino" App, hoping that helps with finding accommodation? I am actually starting from our former family farm in now Poland in Masuren near previous Nikolaiken where my family had a farm for more than 600 years then walking up to Gdansk/prev Danzig where my father studied architecture then across. But will bring a small tent in case...

 

[thewalkingkat]

Guidebooks for the routes in Germany and elsewhere, all in German but with great graphics, available in the local bookstores and here https://www.conrad-stein-verlag.de/produkt-kategorie/aktivitaeten-themen/pilgern/ (Google translate is your friend for the book titles).

Just a heads up: watch out for the publishing year when shopping for guides for the lesser walked routes. As the demand isn’t massive, they aren’t updated as frequently as the guides for e.g. the Spanish caminos and the accommodation info might not be up to date.

 

[Jyrki Wahlstedt]

@Jyrki Wahlstedt, did you make a final decision about whether to continue or jump ahead?

I have been getting a little enthusiastic about walking part of the Vacha to Würzburg/Rothenburg Jakobsweg and I looked into some online information. It isn't the comfort and ease that you have in Spain: There is no Gronze.de (THE pilgrim accommodation website for Spain), and even the websites of the local Saint James associations lack detailed information in one place for the long-distance walker - you have to click around and search for a while.

There are apparently only three specific pilgrim 'albergues' on this 180+ km path - in Vacha, in Bad Kissingen, and in Binsbach. There are lists of Gasthäuser, B&B's and pensions of course, but often it is recommended to contact the local tourist office who will find you a room. There are some working monasteries in the area that offer beds. Fulda, Bad Kissingen and Würzburg are bigger towns where it will not be difficult to get a room - for the rest I would not know. July and August is the traditional summer holiday season in this area, there may be a higher demand for beds. I guess that you have guidebooks and other documentation with you?

The local https://www.jakobus-franken.de has plenty of information about this Jakobswege section but it is in German only.

PS: In Geisa you can stay in a former jail. "Gast im Knast" - "Be a jailbird for one night". 300 years old. Looks intriguing. Prices start from €27.

Just for context, this overview is from one of the relevant websites:
View attachment 174107

Thanks for asking, I am back home now, so I try to prepare better for the next attempt This thread has provided good tips, valuable, I appreciate Kreuzberg sounds to be an interesting place.
It was a bit funny that I caught myself thinking in German, what to answer here
FWIW I have a friends friend and my acquaintance also in Würzburg, the family is running a bakery chain, and he was quite long number one squash player in Germany, in world rankings in top-5 at highest…

 

[Kathor1]

FWIW I have a friends friend and my acquaintance also in Würzburg, the family is running a bakery chain, and he was quite long number one squash player in Germany, in world rankings in top-5 at highest…

Rösner?

 

[Jyrki Wahlstedt]

Rösner?

Simon, sicherlich

 

[Marc S.]

That is so exciting to hear about!!!! Thank you! I have the "Love Camino" App, hoping that helps with finding accommodation?

I think the app will be of little help. For accomodation you will depend on a guidebook. For the German section of the Via Baltica there is a guidebook by Rother Verlag. And there is the guidebook by Bernhard Weber (Via Baltica Verlag) - he has been very influential in creating the route, also sells a credencial and provides regular updates on his website. Both guidebooks contain information on pilgrim accomodation (Weber seems to be a bit more complete, the Rother guidebook also contains 'other' accomodation). In addition there is the Pilgerweg Via Baltica facebook group, which can be usefull.
I hope you can read German though.

 

[CanadianBarb]

I think the app will be of little help. For accomodation you will depend on a guidebook. For the German section of the Via Baltica there is a guidebook by Rother Verlag. And there is the guidebook by Bernhard Weber (Via Baltica Verlag) - he has been very influential in creating the route, also sells a credencial and provides regular updates on his website. Both guidebooks contain information on pilgrim accomodation (Weber seems to be a bit more complete, the Rother guidebook also contains 'other' accomodation). In addition there is the Pilgerweg Via Baltica facebook group, which can be usefull.
I hope you can read German though.

Yes I can thanks!!!! Thanks so much for the information!

 

[Kathor1]

Simon, sicherlich

I have a "Rösner connection", too . Many years ago, when they expanded their business, they moved into a new high-rise building in a commercial zone on the border of the town - administrative headquarters and production lines plus a single apartment at the top where a friend I used to know lived there for a while. I remember it because of the unusual location: he was the only person who lived in the building and it was surrounded by other similar business buildings. He used to say that he woke up every morning with the smell of freshly baked bread and pastries wafting up to his bedroom.

Just curious: Had you been planning to walk in annual sections to Santiago or did you stop because of the lack of other pilgrims and suitable accommodation? As far as I can tell - I don't have practical experience - the many Jakobswege in Germany are not populated by long-distance walkers. It is mainly "weekend pilgrims" or day walkers who don't plan to ever get to Santiago.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

the many Jakobswege in Germany are not populated by long-distance walkers. It is mainly "weekend pilgrims" or day walkers who don't plan to ever get to Santiago.

In my limited experience, 370km on the Via Imperii, you'd be correct. I saw zero pilgrims, weekend or otherwise. And day Walkers only in the immediate vicinity of towns/ villages.
That said I've only walked either October/November and March so far, I believe that the various Jakobsweg's are busier when it's a little warmer. I first realised they existed when I was a 'day Walker' myself and came across a camino marker on a local trail. Prior to this I didn't even realize they existed.
I've done numerous day hikes on three different Jakobsweg's, and seldom meet other hikers once I'm more than five kilometers from a town.
That said the Herberger in Bad Duben can be booked out during summer apparently, so they must be out there!

 

[thewalkingkat]

As far as I can tell - I don't have practical experience - the many Jakobswege in Germany are not populated by long-distance walkers. It is mainly "weekend pilgrims" or day walkers who don't plan to ever get to Santiago.

That was my experience too.

I took the Via Coloniensis and actually met two pilgrims who were also going towards Santiago, they were doing it in stages though due to time constraints.

I have also hiked stages of the Via Coloniensis as day hikes every now and then - never any pilgrims, only day hikers and people walking their dogs.

In France, I did meet a few section hikers and actually one pilgrim (from Belgium, as far as I remember) who was on his way back home from Santiago.

 

[mla1]

So much good information on this thread! My cancelled-by-the-pandemic Camino in 2020 was to go from Würzburg to Strasbourg. These two guidebooks were super helpful and the Kinzigtäler Jakobsweg has an excellent website.