Is Business Class Worth the Extra Cost for Long Haul Flights to Madrid?

[C clearly]

Jam the underclass into appalling discomfort

You cannot be serious!

 

[henrythedog]

I was thinking if I turned left I'd be trying to hijack the pilot's cockpit.

I can’t be the only one to remember the days when if you were sitting up front you could be invited to sit on the spare seats in the cockpit behind the pilots for landing. Happened to me fairly often. It was a different world pre 9/11. QEPD

 

[Former member 102963]

I can’t be the only one to remember the days when if you were sitting up front you could be invited to sit on the spare seats in the cockpit behind the pilots for landing. Happened to me fairly often. It was a different world pre 9/11. QEPD

Nope I remember it too! Take off and landing! The rules started to tighten the year before 911 in 2000 when a passenger stormed the cockpit with malicious intent.

 

[Robo]

I can’t be the only one to remember the days when if you were sitting up front you could be invited to sit on the spare seats in the cockpit behind the pilots for landing. Happened to me fairly often. It was a different world pre 9/11. QEPD

Yep. I recall trying to get the last flight Melbourne-Hobart a few years back.
The airline had over booked.
By luck the Captain was in the lounge and said it was OK to let me on.
The captain let me sit on the 'jump seat' up front, on the condition that if we ditched, it was my job to stand on the seat and open the roof hatch!
Best seat in the house.......

 

[Annw]

Flying from west coast of US we now fly less but go business, but only with miles/points.
I book tickets as soon as they open up, a year or 335 days ahead, going to any hub in Europe and then connecting from there.

Last year I was able to get 2 business class tickets SFO to Bilbao for about 45k miles each. Last week I was able to book nonstop return from London for 57k miles and $600 taxes/fees for this fall.

I've timed card applications to coincide with bonus points offered and then everything I spend goes on credit cards and is immediately paid off.

If I had to purchase (vs points) in business I'd look at the lower cost airlines such as TAP or Turkish Airlines (have to transit through Istanbul but could be worth it for the price).

Still working @ 70, paying own way, and giving back, so no regrets about buffering travel stress in this way.

 

[Former member 102963]

Flying from west coast of US we now fly less but go business, but only with miles/points.
I book tickets as soon as they open up, a year or 335 days ahead, going to any hub in Europe and then connecting from there.

Last year I was able to get 2 business class tickets SFO to Bilbao for about 45k miles each. Last week I was able to book nonstop return from London for 57k miles and $600 taxes/fees for this fall.

I've timed card applications to coincide with bonus points offered and then everything I spend goes on credit cards and is immediately paid off.

If I had to purchase (vs points) in business I'd look at the lower cost airlines such as TAP or Turkish Airlines (have to transit through Istanbul but could be worth it for the price).

Still working @ 70, paying own way, and giving back, so no regrets about buffering travel stress in this way.

Some airlines do offer special offers on business class fares. They are much less frequent than economy offers, and tend to be ‘buy 1, get 1 free’ or ‘2 for 1’ or ‘upgrade’ deals so look out for these

 

[VNwalking]

You cannot be serious!

I wouldn't call it serious. Just being a bit cynical. But I was serious about the appalling discomfort part. The last flight I was on the sests were so close together you could barely move - for 11½ hours. And I'm not above average big or tall.

 

[_zoro_]

Just started looking at airfares from US to Madrid for June or September. Unsurprisingly, it seems noticeably more expensive this year. Here's the thing--I dread being stuck in an airplane seat, whether a 2-hour flight or an 8-hour flight, and I cannot fall asleep sitting upright. On overnight flights, with no sleep during the flight, it's a particularly disorienting type of jet lag. Now to the point: what additional amount in dollars beyond the economy fare would tempt you to book a business/first class fully reclining seat? Or, if you have already flown business class to Spain to start the Camino, did you think it was worth it.

Always.

 

[Mycroft]

The comfort of flat beds will vary by carrier and by class (first or business) so I am not sure you can review them all as ‘one product’, anymore than a hotel room or a pair of walking boots! Plenty of reviews online by carrier and cabin. Many people sleep, and I am sure some don’t!

Here’s is a link.

Business class seat guide – Business Traveller

Want to know about the different types of business class seat? Here is our expert guide…

www.businesstraveller.com

I was surprised last year to read that most of the major airlines are doing away with First Class.

 

[Texas Walker]

That cruise option sounds good Bob! Worth a proper look at!

Interesting idea! And I hate to bring it up, but...one way tickets can be pretty expensive.

 

[Former member 102963]

My kids told me many years ago
Dad if you and Mum don’t turn left on the plane we will
Enjoy it mate
I’ve never seen a hearse go to the bank on its journey

A very famous socialite (sadly now passed away) in UK once said she would ‘never marry a man who turned right on an aircraft!’!

 

[Former member 102963]

U

I was surprised last year to read that most of the major airlines are doing away with First Class.

Interesting idea! And I hate to bring it up, but...one way tickets can be pretty expensive.

Not so much as they once were back in the pre internet days! One ways no longer prohibitive.

 

[Former member 102963]

I was surprised last year to read that most of the major airlines are doing away with First Class.

Has been a major discussion for most airlines which started about 10 years ago. Some routes have big F class demand and some very small. USA carriers started introducing hybrid first class / business class products and that was the trend. I guess the emergence of the Middle Eastern carriers into market leaders since, and their retention of first class, then has changed the conversation somewhat!

 

[VNwalking]

One ways no longer prohibitive.

I was recently blown away by the cost difference between RT and OW tickets on a flagship Asian airline. A RT BC ticket cost little more than OW BC ticket on a nonstop flight between Europe and Asia.

@TravellingMan2022, am I missing something? That did seem prohibitive. But it may not be so prohibitive on other routes? Or?

 

[trecile]

Not so much as they once were back in the pre internet days! One ways no longer prohibitive.

I think it depends on the airline and the route. Since I´m currently in flight search mode I saw that the same flight booked on a round trip itinerary from my home airport to Paris was about $1500, but the outbound trip on a one way ticket was around $1200, and the inbound flight from Paris is close to $2000 for a one way ticket!
That might be an extreme example, but it´s what I´m currently finding.

 

[VNwalking]

That might be an extreme example, but it´s what I´m currently finding.

My experience was similar between Europe and Asia.

 

[Marie_pri]

yes

 

[Camino Chrissy]

That might be an extreme example, but it´s what I´m currently finding.

I have never found a good deal on two one-way overseas tickets; they have always been disappointing with a huge price difference. I do not even bother to search for th any more. I just accept my limitations and plan to fly in and out of pre-set dates and from the same location.

 

[trecile]

I just accept my limitations and plan to fly in and out of pre-set dates and from the same location.

But you don't have to fly home from the same location to save money! You can buy a multi-city ticket for about the same price as a round trip. For example, I'm looking at flying into Paris and home from Madrid or Porto, and the price is similar to if I were flying to and from Paris. Every airline that I've looked at has this option, though sometimes you have to go to "advanced search" to find it. I generally use Google Flights for my searches, and it's on a drop down menu.

 

[VNwalking]

I have never found a good deal on two one-way overseas tickets; they have always been disappointing with a huge price difference. I do not even bother to search for th any more. I just accept my limitations and plan to fly in and out of pre-set dates and from the same location.

Open jaw tickets are your solution. Easy.

 

[trecile]

Open jaw tickets are your solution. Easy.

Right, aka multi-city.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Right, aka multi-city.

I will "experiment" a little, but I know I have looked to do that in the past and been disappointed each time. I will check it out again; thanks for the little push.

 

[Former member 104756]

These days most of us are pretty skilled at searching for and booking our own flights. That’s what I usually do. Most recently, in searching for our one way flight from Sydney to Paris for end of March, I was losing my mind trying to find something at a vaguely reasonable price. As commented above, one way fares are very expensive, compared to return.

While still in search mode, I happened to be in a local shopping centre, passed a travel agent and thought …what’s the harm. One of the agents ushered me to her desk. I said, ‘sorry you’re not going to earn much out of us, we just want one way flights to Paris and wonder if you might be able to work some magic. She replied, sure no problem. Let’s see what we can find. I told her our ideal date, but that we were flexible by a day or two, that we’d ideally like the minimum flight time (usually 23-24 hours) but would go up to 30 hours for a good price, but no ‘dodgy’ airlines. I also said we had originally had a notion we might be able to fly premium economy … we will have more luggage than usual for our long duration stay … but had all but given up on that idea …

She went to work, toggling between screens, fingers dancing over her keyboard with great agility. After 15 mins, she found us a seat with a very good airline, on the day we wanted to go, with 24 hour flight duration. Great, I said. When she told me the price it was pretty good, so I said ‘just for interest, how much is the premium economy ticket? She said, that is premium. . I couldn’t believe it. The day before and the day after were double the price. She said ‘I can hold it for you for 72 hours if you like. Oh, before you go, let’s see the seats still available’ …. so, before I left her office we already had allocated seats and 3 days to confirm.

It’s only the second time in recent memory that I’ve used a travel agent to book flights … and both times it’s worked out very well. It’s what they do every day, they can often hunt down some better options …. and the traveller doesn’t pay any more, and sometimes less. Only caveat I can think of is they can’t book flights using your points.

Just a thought … nothing to lose. And can be done over the phone as well.

 

[LMCW]

We begin our journey from Hawaii so have an added day of travel just to reach the west coast so totally understand your concern (though I do sleep well on flights). Found a great option for our Camino this Fall in Premium Economy at a good price probably due to a 21-hour layover at CDG. Sounds bad but it's perfect for extra rest at our favorite Ibis airport hotel before flying on to Madrid the next day. Our 6 am Madrid departure on the October return might have influenced the price too but works OK for us. Booking as early as possible always leaves more options.

Hi ,
What airline did you use? Im flying from Australia with stop in LA .

 

[Former member 102963]

S

These days most of us are pretty skilled at searching for and booking our own flights. That’s what I usually do. Most recently, in searching for our one way flight from Sydney to Paris for end of March, I was losing my mind trying to find something at a vaguely reasonable price. As commented above, one way fares are very expensive, compared to return.

While still in search mode, I happened to be in a local shopping centre, passed a travel agent and thought …what’s the harm. One of the agents ushered me to her desk. I said, ‘sorry you’re not going to earn much out of us, we just want one way flights to Paris and wonder if you might be able to work some magic. She replied, sure no problem. Let’s see what we can find. I told her our ideal date, but that we were flexible by a day or two, that we’d ideally like the minimum flight time (usually 23-24 hours) but would go up to 30 hours for a good price, but no ‘dodgy’ airlines. I also said we had originally had a notion we might be able to fly premium economy … we will have more luggage than usual for our long duration stay … but had all but given up on that idea …

She went to work, toggling between screens, fingers dancing over her keyboard with great agility. After 15 mins, she found us a seat with a very good airline, on the day we wanted to go, with 24 hour flight duration. Great, I said. When she told me the price it was pretty good, so I said ‘just for interest, how much is the premium economy ticket? She said, that is premium. . I couldn’t believe it. The day before and the day after were double the price. She said ‘I can hold it for you for 72 hours if you like. Oh, before you go, let’s see the seats still available’ …. so, before I left her office we already had allocated seats and 3 days to confirm.

It’s only the second time in recent memory that I’ve used a travel agent to book flights … and both times it’s worked out very well. It’s what they do every day, they can often hunt down some better options …. and the traveller doesn’t pay any more, and sometimes less. Only caveat I can think of is they can’t book flights using your points.

Just a thought … nothing to lose. And can be done over the phone as well.

Was that Flightcentre?

 

[Former member 104756]

Yes it was. We had our tickets within 24 hours of my call back to confirm

 

[Former member 102963]

Yes it was. We had our tickets within 24 hours of my call back to confirm

Thought so!!! They are big powerful players in the Oz market where online booking for international flights is still quite low I believe. Whilst airlines always want to have the lowest fare for direct bookings that is not always possible for a myriad of reasons.

Most of this forum is USA/Canada/ Europe where online bookings often form the majority and tend to provide the best fare, though not always. Many other parts of the world still are majority ‘trade bookers’ for a variety of reasons. . Japan/China (group traffic), India (low credit card limits, concern re credit credit card fraud, travel agents in the family tree) and so on.

If you are in Australia always check with Flightcentre!

 

[dougfitz]

If you are in Australia always check with Flightcentre!

Really. I wouldn't bother most of the time for relatively simple travel, which I now consider includes multi-city and open jaw itineraries where the major carrier groups operate. If I want to use a low-cost carrier in Europe, that is also relatively easy to do on-line. The only exception I can think of recently where a travel agent has been useful is flying from Norway to the UK, where the major carriers want to route through a European hub airport rather than a direct flight into the UK. We have found these difficult to find and book them through a travel agent (not Flightcentre, which has stuffed us up more often than it has helped).

 

[Former member 102963]

Ok, I think you know a lot about airlines!

I’ve been booking online for years - as far as I know it’s very common in Australia. The other time I used an agent, about 5 years ago, I had booked a return flight via flight centre for flying in to one city and out of another. Event transpired that towards the end of my trip I wanted to change my return date to stay longer …. I knew it would come at a cost.

I emailed the agent in the evening (Spanish time) asking if they could look at a few options for my preferred later return date and see what my best options were cost wise. When I woke up the next morning their reply was in my inbox, with a good option at a smaller penalty than I could have found. They said they would ‘hold’ the revised booking for 24 hours giving me time to decide and get back to them. So that was a great outcome, saved me a lot of time and stress and I’ve no doubt a less expensive change fee

Apologies for the personal anecdotes clogging up the thread, but it’s just an option to consider if struggling with flights or prices or both. I’m sure not all agents are equal but my two expériences have been good.

Great it worked out! All agents definitely are not equal! FC are very strong in Oz market and will have a good bargaining position with airlines in their market. What they have done for you aren’t favours, or because they are nice people, or because they like you. It’s what they will have negotiated!!

 

[Former member 104756]

Great it worked out! All agents definitely are not equal! FC are very strong in Oz market and will have a good bargaining position with airlines in their market. What they have done for you aren’t favours, or because they are nice people, or because they like you. It’s what they will have negotiated!!

I didn’t imagine it was because I was special. Like I said, it’s what they do every day

And I’m not recommending flight centre - that just happens to be the agent I used on two occasions, and both times it worked out well.

 

[Former member 102963]

Thanks. Ooh sorry hope that didn’t come across wrong!! Just trying to help. That said it’s not because they do it every day, it’s because of the deal that has been negotiated!! You could be the best agent in the world but if its outside the deal it ain’t happening! I struggle to imagine any other agent in Oz have a better deal than FC but I could be wrong!

 

[Fuertebrazos]

TAP Air Portugal has business class deals on the route I take, which is JFK to Lisbon or Madrid. I can't get a fare to Madrid, I go to Lisbon take a cheap European airline the rest of the way.

Relatively cheap business class fares pop up periodically. You just have to watch for them. I've paid $800 to $900 (one way), and if you go economy, they will offer you the chance to bid on an upgrade. I've bid twice, both times the minimum ($300) and one time I got it and one time I didn't.

Upgrade for $100 or $200? Not a chance. I'm like you, just turned 70, 6'4", and being jammed into an economy seat is torture. Alternately, I pay for extra legroom for another $60-150. However, on my last trip there were no extra-legroom seats and I was jammed into a window seat for 8 hours. No más!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

This popped up on my morning YouTube viewing; I found it interesting and informative. It's 10 minutes before the ending ads. Watch the first 2 minutes at least.

The Economics of Airline Class
YouTube video id: BzB5xtGGsTc

BTW, in 1991 we were in one of three very long lines to board our flight in Sydney. Peg said she was going to go see how much an upgrade would cost. She came running back. "They're going to upgrade us for free! They overbooked economy." She took our ticket with her along with two wives of neighboring couples and got us six upgrades to business class. The two other couples went to Los Angeles; one couple were on their honeymoon. We were stopping in Honolulu. Peg was given a toast with the mimosas given to us before we even had a chance to sit down.

PS. I read recently something that I'm remembering as at least one airline putting spare seats up for auction in similar circumstances.

 

[VNwalking]

Well, that answered a lot of questions! Gracias, @Rick of Rick and Peg. (Depressing. No wonder it feels like cattle class. It is.)

 

[Marbe2]

I think you are talking about “repositioning cruises,” when the ships doing winter Caribbean cruises head over to Europe to do summer cruises. I have never taken a cruise, but this idea intrigues me. Just a lot of days out at sea, on a big cruise ship that isn’t terribly crowded, with a good fitness center and plenty of books to read.

But I can’t figure out how to find those trips. Any help?

I, too, have thought about a one way cruise. More than likely I would likely wind up seasick, and then the numbers of people getting various viruses on ships brings me back to the sober reality that the short time of turbulence in the air is about all I want to experience in transit.

 

[peregrina2000]

That was very instructive, thanks! What I take from that video is that the business class passengers are subsidizing economy seats. 45% of passengers pay 84% of revenues, or as he said “economy class is just there to fill the plane.” So, if the airlines make all their money from business class, it seems that a plane full of only economy seats would have to charge much higher fares to generate the same revenues. So those of us flying in economy should actually be thanking business passengers for keeping our prices down.

That leaves out the question whether the revenues generated are “fair” or “just”, but since deregulation decided to leave it all to the market, that is not part of the equation for the airline.

 

[VNwalking]

So those of us flying in economy should actually be thanking business passengers for keeping our prices dow

It seems so.
And...if those seats at the back of the plane are just to fill the space, it would be great if they could give up a row of seats and make it less of a torture chamber.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I, too, have thought about a one way cruise. More than likely I would likely wind up seasick, and then the numbers of people getting various viruses on ships brings me back to the sober reality that the short time of turbulence in the air is about all I want to experience in transit.

I have been on six lovely cruises to beautiful destinations with delightful stops and have enjoyed them all, but a one-way cruise across the Atlantic has no appeal for me.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

It seems so.
And...if those seats at the back of the plane are just to fill the space, it would be great if they could give up a row of seats and make it less of a torture chamber.

Yeah, the folks in Premium will appreciate the extra leg room. (What's the "cynical" emoji?)

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It seems so.
And...if those seats at the back of the plane are just to fill the space, it would be great if they could give up a row of seats and make it less of a torture chamber.

A number of years ago I heard (if true) that at least one airline had done that, only to change the seats back to the original spacing later.

 

[VNwalking]

That leaves out the question whether the revenues generated are “fair” or “just”, but since deregulation decided to leave it all to the market, that is not part of the equation for the airline.

I just tried to educate myself about international airline deregulation, without much success - but I did learn that at least Europe followed on from the US derehulation that happened in the '70s.

 

[C clearly]

Upgrade for $100 or $200? Not a chance

I was the person who said that, but it was directly addressing the question "what increased fare would tempt me?" That was my answer and it remains so. I did put a laughing emoji , since I'm aware of what the actual prices are!

 

[grayland]

For what it is worth....I have flown business class every time...since 2009. I can...so I do.

Obviously I would not do this if it were a financial problem and would not encourage anyone else to create a problem if the price creates a problem.

 

[Barbara]

Seatguru is a good site. That said you should always be looking for a flat bed across the Atlantic, and most high level carriers deliver that. That said many carriers have different product snalbeit with a flat bed) as modifying aircraft takes ages so do your research!

I can't sleep sitting up. Lying down a yoga mat will do. I've never paid for a flat bed flying. I just take a long stopover and a hotel on anything over eight hours, costs a lot less and helps with the time change. But I expect you are richer than I am.

 

[Kanga]

My flights are 22 hours in the air at least. Usually broken into a 15 hours and 7 hours, with time in transit between the two. This year I' ve booked a flight with a 17 hour break in Dubai. I get a free hotel stay. It works for me.

 

[Kanga]

I've closed the thread, we've had to delete a number of posts as the subject seems to have caused too much personal angst.